Challenge for Christians - GO and preach!

[dario]

Thank you Mr. Grinch for your post and I understand why you don't want to explain your reasoning.

 

As to the question that was posed in the beginning of this forum about the challenge to Christians. Christians are called to go and make disciples of all nations. Many Christians are doing this. More Christians are not. Some Christians go to other countries to witness. Most Christians stay in the US. Less than half of these Christians witness in the US. The rest that claim to be Christians don't do anything about their faith. Whatever the case may be, you can find a ministry in anything you do. Whether its chatting on-line or working at Wendys you can witness to people. This is what I think Jesus is talking about when He gave the great commission. Some people are called to go over seas while others are called to stay in the US. As for me, I don't know where my calling is yet. But what I do know is that while I am waiting for a "call", I can be a good witness where I am at.

[Amethyst]

Instead of just praying, why not donate $5 or something to the Red Cross? I'm sure they will need the money to help those who survive the aftermath.

[Karl-777]

.......So...about Katrina, gonna pray to make the storm vanish or isn't your faith strong enough?

To be honest with you I haven't even thought of the hurricane because I've been too busy lately, so no, I haven't prayed about it. But you've motivated me to do so. And if you want to know what my prayers consist of then you can ask me, but if you want to know only to criticize me then don't bother.

 

Dario:

 

You're not supposed to be praying about it, you're supposed to be DOING it, as per this:

 

"Jesus" predicts that believers will do the miraculous "works" that he does, and more...:in John 14:12 - KJV "Verily, verily I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and GREATER works than these shall he do; because I go unto my father."Here is a list of some of the aformentioned works:(Some WORKS of "Jesus" - compiled from the "gospel" stories)

 

"Jesus" has complete command over Nature and totally stops severe weather in its tracks:

24 And behold there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. 26 ...Then he arose and rebuked the winds and the sea and there was a great calm.

"Jesus" restores a deformed limb to normal:

6...and there was a man whose right hand was withered. 10 And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, "Stretch forth they hand." And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

"Jesus" restores life to the decomposing body of a man who was dead for four days:

17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already 43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth." 44 And he that was dead came forth....

"Jesus" does food multiplication, feeding 5,000 after having started out with only 5 loaves of bread and two fish:

38 He said unto them, "How many loaves have ye?" And when they knew, they say "Five, and two fishes". 42 And they did all eat, and were filled. 44 And they that did eat of the loaves were about five thousand men.

"Jesus" heals 10 people at once who had leprosy:

12 And as he entered into a certain village, there he met ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off. 14 ...and it came to pass that as they went, they were cleansed.

"Jesus" turns water into wine:

7 Jesus saith unto them, "Fill the waterpots with water." And they filled them up to the brim. 10 ....but thou hast kept the good wine till now.

"Jesus" reattaches a severed body part without surgery:

50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. 51 And Jesus answered and said, "Suffer ye thus far." And he touched his ear and healed him.

 

I have never seen believers do these works, as per John 14:12, such as rasing the 4-day dead, commanding hurricanes to cease, etc. Until believers start doing these things prophecied by "Jesus", we'll just take "Jesus" as another false prophet as per Deuteronomy 18:22.

 

Forget about "witnessing" in here on "the only way to be saved". In order for you to do that, you would first have to establish that the errant, self-contradictory and incongruous biblical OT myth and NT pseudepigraphical constructs could somehow be the "divinely inspired" "word" of biblegod. We've debunked that dozens of times.

 

Xtianity is a defective literalization of Pagan Esotericism, and includes texts borrowed from ancient Hebrew myth, and also adopting previously extant Eastern Thought. You need to start investigating Philosophy, Esotericism and Spirituality, as opposed to religionism and "preaching" on absurd biblical literalizations that have no basis in history, archaeology or demonstration of Power by believers.

 

If your dogmatic literalizations regarding "Jesus" the god-man were true, you and all of the other believers would be doing the things in John 14:12, would you not? You folks really missed out on a "golden opportunity" to demonstrate the alleged power of "Jesus"/biblegod. Just think of all the dead bodies in the tsunami disaster that could have raised right there on global television, demonstrating once and for all that "Jesus" was actually who fundies say he was. Instead........nothing.

 

It's time for you to "put up" or........GIVE IT UP.

 

K

[Fweethawt]

Instead........nothing.

 

It's time for you to "put up" or........GIVE IT UP.

 

K

It is not that we do not have faith, as much as it is that we do not have enough faith. And that is why we can not do the things that Jesus did. Now, if you don't mind, I shall return to my complacency. 

 

 

[Vixentrox]

It is funny how not one of them ever has enough faith...except to the gullible that are taken in by the charlatans.

[Guest queen annie]

Hi. I'm new here--in fact this is my first post.

 

Someone outside said they were hiring 'christians' to dive into the lion's den--but since there were no such volunteers within internet-shouting-distance, I said 'hey pick me, I'll go! What's a lion but a big puddy tat, anyway?

 

So what is it that's required to answer the challenge of the thread? I'm a good sport, try me.

[Vixentrox]

Hi.  I'm new here--in fact this is my first post.

 

Someone outside said they were hiring 'christians' to dive into the lion's den--but since there were no such volunteers within internet-shouting-distance, I said 'hey pick me, I'll go!  What's a lion but a big puddy tat, anyway?

 

So what is it that's required to answer the challenge of the thread?  I'm a good sport, try me. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome.

 

I think this is what your supposed to be doing:

 

Go on! Sell everything you have. Quit your jobs. Abandon your families. And follow in the footsteps of “Jesus”! “Glory be to gawd!”

 

Tertullian said, “The blood of the martyrs is seed for the church.”

 

Well? Go plant some seeds, you gutless wonders

[Checkmate]

Hi.  I'm new here--in fact this is my first post.

 

Someone outside said they were hiring 'christians' to dive into the lion's den--but since there were no such volunteers within internet-shouting-distance, I said 'hey pick me, I'll go!  What's a lion but a big puddy tat, anyway?

 

So what is it that's required to answer the challenge of the thread?  I'm a good sport, try me. 

Hello. I've read and re-read your post and I'm not certain how to respond to you. You appear to be the very flippant and trivial sort of Christian™ who trolls these forums looking for "sport", while simultaneously believing you're being "persecuted as a witness for Jesus".

 

Who is this "someone" who told you that we are "hiring" Christians? What nonsense! And this Ex-C forum is no "lion's den". The worse thing we can do to you here is write nasty words. That is the full extent of the "persecution" you'll receive from me. Which is precisely my point with this thread.

 

Rather than SUFFER anything for Christ in the real world, YOU waste time in trivial pursuits, playing mind games with apostates like me because it's safer than losing your blood to a Muslim extremist.

 

And why are you doing this? Because YOU don't believe the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" nor his "great commission" any more than we do! So you and your lukewarm friends encourage one another to "take on" the "evil" EX-Christians as a goof, thus validating to YOURSELVES that you "do battle" with the "forces of Satan".

 

I'm not impressed, and I'd REALLY prefer that you go waste someone else's time.

 

Go hold a prayer meeting. Have a bible study. Go play at one of your many Mega Churches. Go buy yet another WWJD T-shirt. Do whatever else it takes for you to successfully convince yourself that you are a Real Christian™, since you're AFRAID to sell all you have, and GO and PREACH like "Jesus" commands you.

 

Just don't use ME in your self-validation games. Okay?

[Guest queen annie]

Hello.  I've read and re-read your post and I'm not certain how to respond to you.  You appear to be the very flippant and trivial sort of Christian who trolls these forums looking for "sport", while simultaneously believing you're being "persecuted as a witness for Jesus".

I'm sorry I took that approach--I certainly gave you the wrong impression--I am by no means flippant, nor do I claim to be a christian. I also have never trolled any waters or forum--and any persecutions in this life had nothing to do with being a 'witness' for someone I didn't claim to know well enough to witness to others about in the first place.

 

Who is this "someone" who told you that we are "hiring" Christians?  What nonsense! And this Ex-C forum is no "lion's den".

No doubt--it was a joke. Ha ha. Flippant, no--perhaps my attempts at verbal demonstration of what you called 'fearlessness' failed miserably.

 

Thing is, I read this entire thread, wondering if anyone would take you up on your challenge--outside of the same ole, same ole--not for the sake of christianity (something which I think is bad evil, personally) but for the sake of truth. No one did, and so, not knowing how to step up to bat at the bottom of the ninth, I made some lame comments.

 

  That is the full extent of the "persecution" you'll receive from me. 

Sticks and stones. I didn't see that as the obvious point, though...

 

Rather than SUFFER anything for Christ in the real world,<snip> Muslim extremist.

Not true--a logical assumption--but not a unilaterally correct one in all cases.

 

And why are you doing this?  Because YOU don't believe the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" nor his "great commission" any more than we do! 

You mean the one advertised by christendom or the real enchilada (meaning some actual good news)? I certainly don't believe the crap that the good people of god go around shoving on everyone--only pushing, never pulling. That's the deal right there--the delusions that the general population (both religious and non) take as being the 'gospel truth' is a bunch of nonsense.

 

You seem to know what the bible says--God said 'my name continually every day is blasphemed.' The way I see it, the #1 culprits of this are those who call themselves christians.

 

So you and your lukewarm friends encourage one another to "take on" the "evil" EX-Christians as a goof, thus validating to YOURSELVES that you "do battle" with the "forces of Satan".

No, actually I don't have many friends in the proper sense of the word, much less lukewarm--and I've never found too much friendliness in christians toward me--my ideas are not to their liking, especially when I don't keep them to myself. In all honesty, the reason I joined this board is because I don't see 'ex-christians' as 'evil' or goofy--more like people who have somehow awoke to the true light of day, quit superstition and servitude cold-turkey, and braved the harsh waters of reality. I'm not here to do battle, or make fun, or anything of that nature. I don't do stuff like that anyway. No profit in it for anyone. I'm just here to share a bit of me in exchange for the same from others--not to try to convert anyone--that's not my job. I'm not God. I have no law of my own. I'm just someone who regards truth as the ideal and I try to avoid negative energy, both in myself, as well as in others. So if I caused you any, I'm truly sorry for my poor judgment when choosing an approach.

 

I'm not impressed

I didn't come here to impress you--I'm taking you up on what you initially said in this thread.

 

since you're AFRAID to sell all you have, and GO and PREACH like "Jesus" commands you.

Jesus didn't command anyone to go 'preach'--teach, not preach. As far as selling all that I have--I don't have much. Mainly because I've given most of it away. Forget the selling then giving money to the poor--I never got to that part. If someone didn't have and I did, they didn't even need to ask.

It's still that way. I can't prove that to you, but if you need something, and I have it, I'll put it in the mail tomorrow. No joke.

 

I'm not afraid to go out and talk to people about things that no one believes are possible--either the christians want to stone me because I pin them down on their various ideas of 'hell' and 'salvation' and needing to 'faith' to go to 'heaven'--I criticize their trust in salaried 'teachers' and their ideas that God is perpetually in need of a new sound system or parking lot-or even a church building. Then I get the ridicule from some like you who make the same sort of generalizations that the reilgious make about ex-christians. (although not much, since this is actually the first time I felt someone uncertain about introducting myself and because of that came off totally wrong, for the most part I get along with all those who don't feel they eat supper with god every night.)

 

And aside from all that, I certainly perceived you to be someone of a bit lighter humor, you truly picked the right name and avatar, didn't you? Where's your little dog with the big horn? jk

 

I'm rambling. To the point, I posted on this thread so that I could challenge the assertions you make about what 'christians' are doing, or not doing as being something to do with the actual truth about what the bible says and what the gospel truly is.

 

Who says because they call themselves that, yet obviously it's just a name or a clique, or whatever--because it doesn't line up with the bible they believe in--who says that because they've polluted it, that the concept itself is not something potentially authentic (although definitely not in the form widely presented)? Obviously you use your head for more than a hat rack--why would you assume that the falseness of christianity makes the truth of God false? For the sake of argument, if there is a God, and He truly all powerful and all that--and yet all these people show something else entirely--could it not be possible that it's not God that is false, but the people? Even if there were a million people saying one thing and a silent God who is, in truth, something altogether different, yet true in the sense that a God should be--that that million were a majority that was 'wrong,' and God was the one that was 'right?'

 

Why let their misdirection and delusions affect you to the point of assuming that's all there is to it? Are you truly judging a book by it's cover? What is it Paul said--let every man be a liar and God be true? That's something significant, surely.

[Cerise]

Why would an all-powerful god appear absolutely powerless when it comes to people soiling his/her good name?

 

Doesn't sound very all-mighty to me, if the dude can't even speak up for himself and say "ah, that's not what I meant" to his own supposed followers.

[Checkmate]

Who says because they call themselves that, yet obviously it's just a name or a clique, or whatever--because it doesn't line up with the bible they believe in--who says that because they've polluted it, that the concept itself is not something potentially authentic (although definitely not in the form widely presented)?  Obviously you use your head for more than a hat rack--why would you assume that the falseness of christianity makes the truth of God false?  For the sake of argument, if there is a God, and He truly all powerful and all that--and yet all these people show something else entirely--could it not be possible that it's not God that is false, but the people?  Even if there were a million people saying one thing and a silent God who is, in truth, something altogether different, yet true in the sense that a God should be--that that million were a majority that was 'wrong,' and God was the one that was 'right?'

 

Why let their misdirection and delusions affect you to the point of assuming that's all there is to it?  Are you truly judging a book by it's cover?  What is it Paul said--let every man be a liar and God be true?  That's something significant, surely.

Nope. Not judging a book by it's cover. I read the book. All the way from Genesis to Revelation. Read it. Studied it. PREACHED it. I'm fully aware of what Christianity is all about. Which is why I reject it. My lone regret is that I didn't have the common sense to reject it sooner.

 

And consider this: IF Christians™ ARE capable of "misdirection" of "God's word", then why doesn't "God" correct this error? In the bible "God" kills people for less crimes (picking up sticks on the Sabbath, taking his name in vain, touching his ark, and lying about their tithes and offering to name a few). Why so silent and negligent for the past 1900 years? His "children" are causing people to blaspheme his good name and turning sinners away in droves.

 

But please understand: It was NOT Christian hypocrisy or bad behavior that drove me away. (It didn't help, but that wasn't the reason.) I left Christianity and became an atheist because religion makes absolutely ZERO sense! Common sense and reason was all it took for me. I did not ASSUME anything false about Christianity based on it's adherents' behavior.

 

I personally just like busting Christians' chops because you CLAIM to believe what is written in the bible, and YET you act and think almost the SAME as the rest of us heathens. If I ever find a Christian who walks the walk, then I applaud them for sincerity. (I still refuse to believe, but I'll give you your props.)

 

It's the hypocrites that I take umbrage with. And since "God" won't call such behavior into question, I'll do it.

 

P.S. - You mentioned ASSUMING. Why do YOU assume that "God" is true? Everything you believe about "God" and the bible is an assumption on your part. No proof. No evidence. Nothing objective or verifiable. "Faith" is nothing but an "assumption" of something you can't PROVE to be truth. Isn't it entirely possible that both "God" AND "his" believers are false? (That is, of course, MY conclusion.) Just because a few billion people say they believe in "God"/"Jesus", that doesn't make me wrong for NOT believing. Superior numbers do NOT validate the "Truth".

[Vixentrox]

Queen Annie is obviously a True Xtian. The rest are phonies.

[Guest queen annie]

Nope. Not judging a book by it's cover. I read the book. All the way from Genesis to Revelation. Read it. Studied it. PREACHED it. I'm fully aware of what Christianity is all about. Which is why I reject it. My lone regret is that I didn't have the common sense to reject it sooner.Better late than never, as they say. I am also fully aware of what christianity is all about--and you are assuming that I am part of that. And if I'm assuming you are assuming, please forgive me--but that seems to be the case. I am not a christian--I think it's a bunch of superstitious politics and I have never been a 'christian.' Just because I find in the bible something more than a bunch of trumped up reasons to be a hypocrite and a self-appointed judge doesn't mean I am a christian. Please refrain from calling me that and I won't call you an old green grump with a silly little dog--at least wait until you can say you have enough information to discern what I'm about--regardless of my poor introduction of self--to just assume, that because I'm not an x-christian doesn't mean that therefore I must be one, by process of elimination. And just because I refuse to put any stock in the popular fairy tales doesn't mean I'm a fool for believing in the worth of what I stand for--the nature of which you really don't know for sure. At this point you are judging me by what you feel I must be--but I don't see any call for that--you don't even know me and whatever your reasons for the things you feel to be true--those have nothing to do with me whatsoever.

 

then why doesn't "God" correct this error?What makes you think that His ways should be seen and understood by you--or any of us--in order to be valid or really taking place?

Are you of the opinion, after reading the bible cover to cover, preaching it, and all that---that if (let's just say if) there were an intelligence from which this universe originated--that the ultimate goal would be an eternal career of babysitting?

 

Why so silent and negligent for the past 1900 years? I thought you said you 'read the book. All the way from Genesis to Revelation. Read it. Studied it. PREACHED it.' Surely, then, you know the answer to that question--or did you miss the part about 'the kingdom of God is within you?' If you perceive silence, maybe you're listening in the wrong direction? Granted, that's likely some carry-over from your preaching days, so there's no valid criticism for that.

His "children" are causing people to blaspheme his good name and turning sinners away in droves.How can one be driven away from something they've never even gotten near to, in the first place? Strange how we can be so far from something that actually dwells within us, isn't it? It seems to be closely connected with human tendency to blame external causes for individual deeds. None of us can truly 'cause' another person to do something--many people are deterred from their own searching because of all the charades, but no man can cause another to step in one direction or another.

 

I left Christianity and became an atheist because religion makes absolutely ZERO sense! Common sense and reason was all it took for me. No Joke! I do understand--those are the very reasons I've never considered myself a christian in the first place. How can I believe in a God that is stupider than His creations? I just chose to believe there was more chance of a good end with something neither proven or disproven than with something already proven flawed beyond palatability (for me). And I'm talking about things that didn't just take place in the recent past--these were my thoughts as a kid growing up. I truly can not see, to this day, how anyone can believe any of it--and say they believe in a God that is all-knowing yet, according to their unfinished 'doctrines' has not even the slightest hint of common sense that those who were made in His image are endowed with as a matter of course. Their own beliefs contradict their beliefs.

I did not ASSUME anything false about Christianity based on it's adherents' behavior.No, I know what you are saying, IMO you pretty much called it like you saw it. BUT--Did you make personal ascertations about God, in general, and whether true or make-believe, based on the fact that what men said God was about was harder to believe in than in a green-cheese moon?

 

I personally just like busting Christians' chops because you CLAIM to believe what is written in the bible, and YET you act and think almost the SAME as the rest of us heathens.You don't even know me! Bust all the chops you want--it's nothing to me. How do you feel justified in judging me so readily? What good is seeing clearly some things, if that 'seeing' makes you blind in other ways?

If I ever find a Christian who walks the walk, then I applaud them for sincerity. By that, you mean the true walk--love and truth and all things truly noble? I've never met one yet. Christian is not a synonym for 'integrity.' It's none of my business what you choose or refuse to believe--how can I change what you think? If you ever encounter someone who is truly sincere, I doubt they'll have any appreciation of 'props' as you say. There's no place for props when there's a path to follow--just an useless piece of luggage, actually.

It's the hypocrites that I take umbrage with. And since "God" won't call such behavior into question, I'll do it.What qualifies you to assume such a role? Since you're not a christian any more you don't have to keep the beams out of your own eyes, first? I figured that was pretty good advice in general.

Why do YOU assume that "God" is true?Who said I was assuming? You assume I assume. But what's that really mean?

 

Assume:

1. To take upon oneself: assume responsibility; assume another's debts.

2. To undertake the duties of (an office): assumed the presidency.

3. To take on; adopt: “The god assumes a human form” (John Ruskin).

4. To put on; don: The queen assumed a velvet robe.

5. To affect the appearance or possession of; feign.

6. To take for granted; suppose: assumed that prices would rise. See Synonyms at presume.

7. To take over without justification; seize: assume control.

8. To take up or receive into heaven.

 

Interesting...Well, I can see how your preformed prejudice toward me causes you to assume that what goes on in my mind is assumptive also. But none of the above definitions apply to the workings of my mind.

Everything you believe about "God" and the bible is an assumption on your part. No proof. No evidence. Nothing objective or verifiable. What--you're a mind reader? You already know me? You know what I think, feel, and understand? You know the limits of my knowledge and experiences? I think not. And that I can prove. I don't have to prove anything about God to you--likewise I wouldn't ask someone to 'disprove' God, either. On the other hand, if you think you can just spout off biased remarks that are not founded in anything but your own preconceptions of me, based on things which have none to do with me--then I do expect you to back up your words with some kind of proof. Especially since I've not done toward you---if your goal is just to pelt me with mean words and such until I turn tail and run, then all I can say is 'I packed me a lunch, did you bring one?'

 

 

"Faith" is nothing but an "assumption" of something you can't PROVE to be truth. Well--what can be actually proven as 'truth?' Not 'factual' but 'truth?' Truth is almost certainly an unprovable idea in all areas of existence. Truth exists outside of the viability we impose by demanding 'proof'.

 

Isn't it entirely possible that both "God" AND "his" believers are false? I'd say it's about 1 to 2 odds either way--although if we were betting, I'd lay all my chips on the 'believers' being false--perhaps not deliberately--but whether ignorant or cunning, falseness is still falseness.

 

(That is, of course, MY conclusion.) Just because a few billion people say they believe in "God"/"Jesus", that doesn't make me wrong for NOT believing. Of course not. Who said it did?

Superior numbers do NOT validate the "Truth".No doubt. Unless you're a buffalo or a lemming, I suppose. But I'm never been much of a herd animal.

 

And---the way I see it--there's a glaring contradiction in the idea most of christendom holds regarding their compelling and sacred mission to 'convert' all the 'lost sinners'--in view of what the last book of the bible says, the more converts they make into christians, the more it looks like that 'image of the beast' in Revelation is their god--the one they made up to look just like them.

 

Maybe the word 'christian' is that dreaded 'name'--you know the one that is the dreaded 666? I'd put all my chips on that horse, too. If I had any chips, that is.

[Guest queen annie]

Queen Annie is obviously a True Xtian.  The rest are phonies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a not a very nice thing to say!

[Checkmate]

That's a not a very nice thing to say!

Although this wasn't directed at me, I'll take it. You're correct, queen annie. And I apologize for the libel of labeling you with the epithet "Christian". I will now reset my "pitfall" and await some real "game".

[Guest queen annie]

Thank you, Mr. Grinch. You are a gentleman underneath your green gnarley hide.

 

I think I'll just hide and watch, if you don't mind.

[Isak The Newt]

Eh... If they dared to drink poisen... Then they would be truelly a cult in today's standard... :/ For world history my teacher has organized the class into 7 groups, out of the 7 religions. I got placed in the Christianity group, placed with 5 Christians as group partners ... I gotta spend a minute infront of the class explaining who God and what the Trinity is... GAAAAAHHH!! Little help anyone? I know what the trinity is, and who god is... But I don't know enough to talk a whole minute about it infront of 30 other students (28 of them are probably xtian too doesn't help my situation either lol )

[Guest queen annie]

Try this one out for starters:

 

'the trinity' is an invention of the mother of all christian churches, the Roman Catholic Church, devised by way of the Nicean Creed in order to oppress free thinking and to trick people into worshipping that dreaded 'image of the beast' in Revelation--represented by '666'. The three numbers 6--with 6 being the number in Hebrew gematria which represents mortality and man--represent man's triune nature (which is spirit, soul, and body) and the fact that all three are dead without God--but the god made by the RCC is nothing more than a cloudy reflection of man himself, hence the 'image of the beast' that the whole world worships already. The 'trinity' is patently hogwash because God is not 'three persons' nor 'three equals in one'....

 

There's a bunch more stuff and nonsense that I won't bore you with. But the trinity is the number of the beast, and is in no way even close to the essential consciousness that drives creation day in and day out--and so one could say that 'the mark of the beast' that the whole world waits in dread for has already been passed out for some time--in the name of all those christians professing trinitarinism. Forget the RFID chips--that's the least of their worries at this point.

 

 

Then again, that may not win you any popularity contests at school, and it just might get you a tomato or two in the kisser...

 

 

Use your best judgment, LOL.

[Cerise]

What makes you think that His ways should be seen and understood by you--or any of us--in order to be valid or really taking place?

 

Why love or worhsip what you cannot see or understand, or otherwise interact with in any way? What is the point of this unattainable high-as-a-kite-God that can't be buggered to explain itself?

 

Are you of the opinion, after reading the bible cover to cover, preaching it, and all that---that if (let's just say if) there were an intelligence from which this universe originated--that the ultimate goal would be an eternal career of babysitting?

 

Why leave a babysitter's handbook behind if you don't intend to be a babysitter? Or don't you believe that the bible comes from God?

 

I thought you said you 'read the book.  All the way from Genesis to Revelation.  Read it.  Studied it.  PREACHED it.' Surely, then, you know the answer to that question--or did you miss the part about 'the kingdom of God is within you?'  If you perceive silence, maybe you're listening in the wrong direction?  Granted, that's likely some carry-over from your preaching days, so there's no valid criticism for that.

 

Oh please. What an incredible cop-out. We can't hear god, so it MUST be a problem with US, not god. Can you hear the pink fairies? No? Well then maybe you're listening in the wrong direction. Perhaps you need to re-read Peter Pan where it says you have to clap really hard.

 

How can one be driven away from something they've never even gotten near to, in the first place? Strange how we can be so far from something that actually dwells within us, isn't it? 

 

Strange how it's never Sky Fairies fault when it's followers are mistaken. You think being all-powerful and all-knowing might give a being some responsibility but no, it's all HUMANS. Never god's fault.

 

It seems to be closely connected with human tendency to blame external causes for individual deeds.  None of us can truly 'cause' another person to do something--many people are deterred from their own searching because of all the charades, but no man can cause another to step in one direction or another. 

 

I think you're forgetting the "all-powerful" part of BibleGod, m'dear. See, all-powerful means that god can really and truly cause another person to do something, and did, all throughout the bible.

[Guest queen annie]

Why love or worhsip what you cannot see or understand, or otherwise interact with in any way?

You mean, also, something like 'depend upon?'

Well--can't say for sure, but it seems to be something crucial to the survival of a newborn baby.

 

 

What is the point of this unattainable high-as-a-kite-God that can't be buggered to explain itself?

If your opinion/experience/understanding of it was the only possible one, there wouldn't seem to be any point to it, at all. My opinion/experience/understanding is totally different than yours, so likely there are all sorts of ways to approach that question. I really can't answer it in a way that would fit your point of view, since my vantage point is not the same as yours...

 

 

Why leave a babysitter's handbook behind if you don't intend to be a babysitter?  Or don't you believe that the bible comes from God?

If anyone leaves anything 'behind', then it is assumed they have gone elsewhere. If that were a babysitting manual, then obviously God would not be expecting to babysit--but rather would be the one hiring the babysitter.

I don't see how the bible appears as a 'babysitter's guide'--whether or not it is held as having some sort of value has nothing to do with its literary form.

As far as 'coming from God'--if man is made in the image of Deity, then it follows that all creations of man 'come from God' when you trace back to the root.

 

 

Oh please.  What an incredible cop-out.  We can't hear god, so it MUST be a problem with US, not god.  Can you hear the pink fairies?  No?  Well then maybe you're listening in the wrong direction.  Perhaps you need to re-read Peter Pan where it says you have to clap really hard.

Who's copping out? Do we have pink fairies inside us? Do we all have a 'mind?' If the answer is 'yes' then we all have a connection to God inside of us. If the answer is 'no' then it's probably a mute point.

 

 

Strange how it's never Sky Fairies fault when it's followers are mistaken. 

I wouldn't know about any 'sky fairies.'

 

 

You think being all-powerful and all-knowing might give a being some responsibility but no, it's all HUMANS. 

You're right--an all-knowing ever-present entity would be, and is, ultimately responsible for what is created. Just like the parents of any child. Does that mean the kid always listens? Not hardly. Is the parent still responsible and accountable for the kid whether they listen or not? Indeed--until the age of majority. You probably don't care for the comparison with kids, but until humanity reaches maturity as far as our spiritual nature, that's the way it is. There's too much mean spirited envy, strife, and discord among the inhabitants of this planet to think we're anything else. That statement includes every religious group, too--without exception.

 

 

 

Never god's fault.

It's nobody's fault. That is a true cop-out: placing blame instead of learning and growing.

 

 

I think you're forgetting the "all-powerful" part of BibleGod, m'dear.  See, all-powerful means that god can really and truly cause another person to do something, and did, all throughout the bible.

I said 'None of us can truly 'cause' another person to do something--many people are deterred from their own searching because of all the charades, but no man can cause another to step in one direction or another. ' I didn't say 'God'-- I said 'man.'

 

God can bring will to effect--and will, but only for the benefit of man--the individual within the whole. If man had that power, there would be even more inhumanity among humans than there already is--because the idea of 'teamwork' is not understood half as well as 'competing' is.

[Cerise]

You mean, also, something like 'depend upon?'

Well--can't say for sure, but it seems to be something crucial to the survival of a newborn baby.

 

Maybe you missed the "otherwise interact with" bit of my post. Newborn babies may rely upon something they don't understand, but they rely on its physical presence in their lives. They interact.

 

If anyone leaves anything 'behind', then it is assumed they have gone elsewhere. If that were a babysitting manual, then obviously God would not be expecting to babysit--but rather would be the one hiring the babysitter.

I don't see how the bible appears as a 'babysitter's guide'--whether or not it is held as having some sort of value has nothing to do with its literary form.

 

Rule books and guides are often the same thing.

 

As far as 'coming from God'--if man is made in the image of Deity, then it follows that all creations of man 'come from God' when you trace back to the root.

 

And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Who's copping out? Do we have pink fairies inside us? Do we all have a 'mind?' If the answer is 'yes' then we all have a connection to God inside of us. If the answer is 'no' then it's probably a mute point.

 

So you think god is just a psychological illusion, not existing anywhere except the minds of humans?

 

You're right--an all-knowing ever-present entity would be, and is, ultimately responsible for what is created. Just like the parents of any child. Does that mean the kid always listens? Not hardly. Is the parent still responsible and accountable for the kid whether they listen or not? Indeed--until the age of majority. You probably don't care for the comparison with kids, but until humanity reaches maturity as far as our spiritual nature, that's the way it is. There's too much mean spirited envy, strife, and discord among the inhabitants of this planet to think we're anything else. That statement includes every religious group, too--without exception.

 

Maybe you should look at some bushmen and try to find out why we are not humanity.

I said 'None of us can truly 'cause' another person to do something--many people are deterred from their own searching because of all the charades, but no man can cause another to step in one direction or another. ' I didn't say 'God'-- I said 'man.'

 

Yes, but we weren't talking about man causing dissent in religious matters, we were talking about a holy spirit that never seems to say the same thing to any of its followers.

 

God can bring will to effect--and will, but only for the benefit of man--the individual within the whole.

 

I'll hold my breath for that, shall I?

[Vixentrox]

Queen are you a Christian or a deist or something else?  If a Christian, are you a universalist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I said she was a True Christian and she got offended. So she must not be a True Christian.

[Guest queen annie]

Queen are you a Christian or a deist or something else?  If a Christian, are you a universalist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the second time this week I've had to look up what 'deist' meant! LOL And I still can't remember what it was, exactly... I know it didn't fit, neither did 'theist.' I looked up quite a few '-ists' for the sake of your question. Because I assume that you are just wondering where it is I stand as far as what I feel to be true.

 

And my point blank answer won't be of much help. Which is: I've never considered myself to be any kind of 'ist' or 'ian' because to do so would be the ultimate prison for my mind--in order to be one certain kind of 'ist' I have to align my personal intuitions and even my line of thinking and reasoning along one certain already-delineated path. I cannot do that. Not with God, politics, or even cooking or my artwork! Perhaps the only thing I can truthfully claim to be is a 'free thinker'. In the strictest defintion of the word. The world, though, has often classed me as a 'rebel.' My parents never have--I did not rebel against them, but they knew me for what I am and allowed me freedom in my thoughts. And my heart/mind I always listen to--though I am by no means emotionally driven at this present point in time (not always true--I have grown up some in the last few years, which I think means that feelings become less emotional and more purely processes--making us less prone to 'react' and more able to 'respond.')

 

As far as 'isms', though, on my little search, I found that I lean more toward the metaphysical perspective, of a pantheistic nature, with more than just a little mysticism which leans toward stoicism, yet none of those 'fit' all the way through.

 

I have found much value in some part of every school of thought--and much to question as well. And the questions are what lead further toward self-definition. But I can not stop or cease at any one point or in any certain camp--to do so would be to restrain myself from learning and growing.

 

As far as universalism, all I can say is that I don't consider myself a christian--it is a bad thing, the way I've always seen it--and this board proves my feelings right. There is more evil done with it than with all the other religions combined, IMO. No greater amount of human lives have been taken in any other name as the ones who have been killed in the name of Christ. It's such a sickening contradiction that I cannot and will not be a supporter of, in any way. Not of Christ, but of christianity.

 

The bible that is used by christianity (or rather 'folded, spindled, and mutilitated') says quite clearly 'love your neighbor as yourself.' I see no fault in that philosophy whatsoever--only good can come from such a positive endeavor. Too bad that's not the position held by those who have bastardized the message into one of hellfire and condemnation. So I guess you could say, yes, I believe in the universal equality of all men being in the same situation--we're all here in the carbon-based matter food-chain right now, and if we go anywhere, it will be all of us, not just some of us. The only selection process that would separate mankind from itself is one that mankind itself invents, evidenced by the segregations in society. And so the only other two options are universal progress or a universal dead-end. Nature itself will demonstrate there is no true 'dead-end'; for what we perceive to be the death of one organism contributes to the upcoming vitality of many others. And so on and so on. There's no escaping that process, as we see from the idea of 'cause and effect.' Ripples in a pond can only mean every molecule in that water is interdependent with the rest.

[Guest queen annie]

I said she was a True Christian and she got offended.  So she must not be a True Christian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't offended--if I had been, likely I would of spewed off some things aimed at offending you. I just wanted to point out how I feel about such a label. I'd have said the same thing if you had said I was a jerk.

 

I don't want to offend anyone, but it is hard to offend me. Only because my opinion of myself doesn't depend upon others' opinions of me. Nor do I believe that my opinion of others carries any real weight, either. Opinions are never of benefit when they are of a interpersonal matter (person to person). Opinions are for people to use in regard to things. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

 

How do you define a 'True Christian?'

According to what christianity around the world defines? (such as hellfire punishment for 'non christians', necessity for going to church and being outwardly pious, adherence to certain 'creeds' and dogmatic 'doctrines' such as the trinity and stuff like 'confession' and 'trying to save sinners')

According to the 'non-christian' view of what 'christians' represent to others? (self-righteousness based on self-delusion and denial of both sides of the nature of the beast, hypocrisy and biased judgment)

Or something else, altogether?

[Vixentrox]

Most Christian seems to think THEY are the True Chrsitans and everyone else got it a bit wrong.