Christians Know The Truth

[Justin]

We've all heard preachers say that christians will go and watch a ballgame in extreme heat or cold, through rain and snow, but aren't nearly as determined to come to church. They say that if it's to hot or cold or if they see a drop of rain or a snow flake it will knock many out of coming.

 

I think this is telling. It's like they know deep down that what they believe isn't true and thats why many are more prone to go and do a wordly thing than come to church. Perhaps because this worldy thing is tangible, you can see it, hear it, feel it and experience it. I think that they know they really haven't heard God or even felt anything sitting in a chuch service and though they will never admit it to anyone or to even themselves, it comes through in other areas, in their actions and, in this case, inactivity.

 

Thoughts?

[Shyone]

We've all heard preachers say that christians will go and watch a ballgame in extreme heat or cold, through rain and snow, but aren't nearly as determined to come to church. They say that if it's to hot or cold or if they see a drop of rain or a snow flake it will knock many out of coming.

 

I think this is telling. It's like they know deep down that what they believe isn't true and thats why many are more prone to go and do a wordly thing than come to church. Perhaps because this worldy thing is tangible, you can see it, hear it, feel it and experience it. I think that they know they really haven't heard God or even felt anything sitting in a chuch service and though they will never admit it to anyone or to even themselves, it comes through in other areas, in their actions and, in this case, inactivity.

 

Thoughts?

Well, if there is any indication of disbelief among nominal Christians, it probably isn't attending Church. My wife is a Christian, but never goes. She is also quite convinced about the afterlife and such, but not "religious" or "spiritual."

 

I'd say that the fear of death, and measures taken to avoid dying, is more telling. Who's afraid of going to Disney World?

[Justin]

I'd say that the fear of death, and measures taken to avoid dying, is more telling. Who's afraid of going to Disney World?

 

 

Good point. A thing that gets me about death and how the christian deals with it is how if a member of the church has cancer and is cured, it is a miracle. Yet if they die from it it is simply god's way. What the hell? You can't ever lose if you constantly play the 'Johnny Can't Lose' card. Another thing about this is i remember when i went to church there was several members who had cancer and it went into remission. They all screamed their regular crap about it being a miracle and such. But for some of these people the cancer came back and killed them just months after the supposed "miracle" took place. Now, what good is a "miracle" if you still wind up dieing from it in the end, and in some cases, not to long after the "miracle" took place?

[Shyone]

I'd say that the fear of death, and measures taken to avoid dying, is more telling. Who's afraid of going to Disney World?

 

 

Good point. A thing that gets me about death and how the christian deals with it is how if a member of the church has cancer and is cured, it is a miracle. Yet if they die from it it is simply god's way. What the hell? You can't ever lose if you constantly play the 'Johnny Can't Lose' card. Another thing about this is i remember when i went to church there was several members who had cancer and it went into remission. They all screamed their regular crap about it being a miracle and such. But for some of these people the cancer came back and killed them just months after the supposed "miracle" took place. Now, what good is a "miracle" if you still wind up dieing from it in the end, and in some cases, not to long after the "miracle" took place?

Another good point. I would suspect that if you spoke with church members now, they would remember the cures and forget the failures.

 

On a more philosophical note, I had a patient about 10 years ago that I removed a cancerous kidney from. He did well and the cancer never recurred, but then developed Alzheimer's disease. I was trying to figure out if I had really done him and his family any favors.

[florduh]

Damn near everyone I know claims to be Christian and approximately four of them regularly attend church.

 

That always puzzled me, both as a Christian and as a normal person. I mean, if you truly believed in Heaven, Hell, the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus as the solitary hope of Mankind, wouldn't you show up at least once a week to say "thanks" if nothing else?

[Dagan]

That's because church is really really boring.

 

Let's see. Ballgame with popcorn and beer and possibly getting to see your team win? Or... sit in a dim building, sing love songs to Jesus for half an hour, listen to some old white guy tell you what a piece of crap you are for half an hour and then be forced to mingle with shallow nitwits for half an hour afterwards.

 

Lemme think about this.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

We've all heard preachers say that christians will go and watch a ballgame in extreme heat or cold, through rain and snow, but aren't nearly as determined to come to church. They say that if it's to hot or cold or if they see a drop of rain or a snow flake it will knock many out of coming.

 

I think this is telling. It's like they know deep down that what they believe isn't true and thats why many are more prone to go and do a wordly thing than come to church. Perhaps because this worldy thing is tangible, you can see it, hear it, feel it and experience it. I think that they know they really haven't heard God or even felt anything sitting in a chuch service and though they will never admit it to anyone or to even themselves, it comes through in other areas, in their actions and, in this case, inactivity.

 

Thoughts?

 

Or it could simply mean that many professing christians aren't really christians. When I go street preaching I run into many professing christian men with a girl in their arms and a pocket full of condoms and professing christian women in short tight dresses looking like whores. And you are right plenty of people haven't felt God in church but this isn't a point agianst God this is a point against the believer. Most church goers are just that. Church goers. They live like the devil 6 days a week but come sunday they are a picture of holiness. Jesus calls these people hypocrites and white tombs full of dead mens bones. The reason church is so dead is because they preach a compromised gospel that has no power. They preach lies and hypocrisies. Theres no real transformation, no real repentance no real born again experience just a bunch of people going through the motions. I have far more intimate experiences with God when I'm alone praying and reading the bible.

[Ouroboros]

Or it could simply mean that many professing christians aren't really christians. When I go street preaching I run into many professing christian men with a girl in their arms and a pocket full of condoms and professing christian women in short tight dresses looking like whores.

Let me see if I get this right.

 

A real Christian doesn't use condoms?

 

Or is it that a real Christian man does not have sex with females?

 

Or is it that real Christians women dress is sack cloth?

 

I'm not sure what your message is, so I'm asking for some clarification.

 

And you are right plenty of people haven't felt God in church but this isn't a point agianst God this is a point against the believer. Most church goers are just that. Church goers. They live like the devil 6 days a week but come sunday they are a picture of holiness. Jesus calls these people hypocrites and white tombs full of dead mens bones. The reason church is so dead is because they preach a compromised gospel that has no power. They preach lies and hypocrisies. Theres no real transformation, no real repentance no real born again experience just a bunch of people going through the motions. I have far more intimate experiences with God when I'm alone praying and reading the bible.

How can you know if someone has repented or not? They stop doing what they were doing?

 

So have you stopped doing all the sins you used to do? Are YOU perfect and sin-free in all your actions now?

[Justin]

Or it could simply mean that many professing christians aren't really christians. When I go street preaching I run into many professing christian men with a girl in their arms and a pocket full of condoms and professing christian women in short tight dresses looking like whores. And you are right plenty of people haven't felt God in church but this isn't a point agianst God this is a point against the believer. Most church goers are just that. Church goers. They live like the devil 6 days a week but come sunday they are a picture of holiness. Jesus calls these people hypocrites and white tombs full of dead mens bones. The reason church is so dead is because they preach a compromised gospel that has no power. They preach lies and hypocrisies. Theres no real transformation, no real repentance no real born again experience just a bunch of people going through the motions. I have far more intimate experiences with God when I'm alone praying and reading the bible.

 

Yes, because sex is bad and any who take part in it are abominations before the lord. Thats all i will say on your camp's villification of sex.

 

If somebody does something that you don't like, they are not a christian. They go to a ballgame on saturday but not to church on sunday, then they are not a christian. You do realize that other denominations of christians wouldn't call you a true christian, right? Todd Bentley, a Pentacostal nutjob would say you were a lost, hellbound sinner if you laughed at all his speaking in tongues and dancing around the pulpit rubbish.

 

Perhaps this is precisly why we have an uncountable number of different christian denominations? They all hold the truth and the sole definition of what a christian is.

 

Bottom line, if one had truth and the knowledge of god, then no ballgame or snow or rain would knock them out of coming to God's house. Now, before you say that these folks actually have no knowledge of truth or god, keep in mind that any preacher can tell you that ANY christian, be they backslidden, only coming around in times of trouble, or the most devout, can lay out of church for any reason. I'm sure you can attest to this yourself. Now answer this, are you really a christian?

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Or it could simply mean that many professing christians aren't really christians. When I go street preaching I run into many professing christian men with a girl in their arms and a pocket full of condoms and professing christian women in short tight dresses looking like whores.

Let me see if I get this right.

 

A real Christian doesn't use condoms?

 

Or is it that a real Christian man does not have sex with females?

 

Or is it that real Christians women dress is sack cloth?

 

I'm not sure what your message is, so I'm asking for some clarification.

 

And you are right plenty of people haven't felt God in church but this isn't a point agianst God this is a point against the believer. Most church goers are just that. Church goers. They live like the devil 6 days a week but come sunday they are a picture of holiness. Jesus calls these people hypocrites and white tombs full of dead mens bones. The reason church is so dead is because they preach a compromised gospel that has no power. They preach lies and hypocrisies. Theres no real transformation, no real repentance no real born again experience just a bunch of people going through the motions. I have far more intimate experiences with God when I'm alone praying and reading the bible.

How can you know if someone has repented or not? They stop doing what they were doing?

 

So have you stopped doing all the sins you used to do? Are YOU perfect and sin-free in all your actions now?

 

1. No a real christian doesn't have sex out of marriage. Fornication is a sin and God has called us to he holy and separate from the lust of the flesh. And should women be in a sack cloth NO. But the bible says that a woman should be dressed modestly. When these women dress in skin tight dresses it causes men to lust after them. I mean so many women wonder why they wind up with creeps and guys who want them just for sex but then think nothing of entering into a club with a dress that might as well be painted on (Go figure that huh...lol).

 

2. Yezzir. Now this isn't to say that I haven't sinned since salvation to my own shame but I repented of that sin and stopped it.

[Ouroboros]

1. No a real christian doesn't have sex out of marriage.

So how do you know that the couple you saw wasn't married? I know people who get married but not necessarily wear their rings. Oh, wait, it's a sin not to wear the rings, right? Real Christians must have two wedding bands, and wear them at all times.

 

Fornication is a sin and God has called us to he holy and separate from the lust of the flesh.

Where does it say anything about marriage in the Bible? Where are the instructions to the holy matrimony ceremony in the Bible?

 

And should women be in a sack cloth NO. But the bible says that a woman should be dressed modestly.

Short skirts are modest in my opinion. No skirt would be beyond modest.

 

When these women dress in skin tight dresses it causes men to lust after them.

Wait! You mean it causes YOU to lust after them.

 

Perhaps it would be better for you to become a homosexual then? Then you don't have to lust for women. Smart solution, right?

 

(And btw, I'm hetero. I'm just giving you a tip to overcome the lustful desires you're suffering from.)

 

I mean so many women wonder why they wind up with creeps and guys who want them just for sex but then think nothing of entering into a club with a dress that might as well be painted on (Go figure that huh...lol).

Right. I know many women who ended up with creeps without painting their bodies. It seems like the creeps can be found everywhere. Go figure.

 

2. Yezzir. Now this isn't to say that I haven't sinned since salvation to my own shame but I repented of that sin and stopped it.

So you're living a completely sin-free life today? Good job.

 

But it sounds like you're lusting after women above since you have a problem with scantily clothed women. Perhaps you're not as holy as you think; hence, you're not a pure, true, or real Christian either.

 

What a shame. I thought we had found the real Christian finally, but you're just another sinful and deceived Christian like all the rest.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Or it could simply mean that many professing christians aren't really christians. When I go street preaching I run into many professing christian men with a girl in their arms and a pocket full of condoms and professing christian women in short tight dresses looking like whores. And you are right plenty of people haven't felt God in church but this isn't a point agianst God this is a point against the believer. Most church goers are just that. Church goers. They live like the devil 6 days a week but come sunday they are a picture of holiness. Jesus calls these people hypocrites and white tombs full of dead mens bones. The reason church is so dead is because they preach a compromised gospel that has no power. They preach lies and hypocrisies. Theres no real transformation, no real repentance no real born again experience just a bunch of people going through the motions. I have far more intimate experiences with God when I'm alone praying and reading the bible.

 

Yes, because sex is bad and any who take part in it are abominations before the lord. Thats all i will say on your camp's villification of sex.

 

If somebody does something that you don't like, they are not a christian. They go to a ballgame on saturday but not to church on sunday, then they are not a christian. You do realize that other denominations of christians wouldn't call you a true christian, right? Todd Bentley, a Pentacostal nutjob would say you were a lost, hellbound sinner if you laughed at all his speaking in tongues and dancing around the pulpit rubbish.

 

Perhaps this is precisly why we have an uncountable number of different christian denominations? They all hold the truth and the sole definition of what a christian is.

 

Bottom line, if one had truth and the knowledge of god, then no ballgame or snow or rain would knock them out of coming to God's house. Now, before you say that these folks actually have no knowledge of truth or god, keep in mind that any preacher can tell you that ANY christian, be they backslidden, only coming around in times of trouble, or the most devout, can lay out of church for any reason. I'm sure you can attest to this yourself. Now answer this, are you really a christian?

 

1. I didn't say sex was bad I'm saying fornication (sex out of marriage) is a sin.

 

2. It has nothing to do with what I don't like the bible clearly says that sex out of marriage is sin. The bible doesn't come against going to a ball game but if you are more obcessed with sports than with God that is called idolatry and that is a sin.

 

3. I'm fully aware of that but the thing with denominations (i'm not in a denomination) is that they follow PARTS of the bible. They have church doctrine, proof texts (parts of the bible that prove their doctrine is right, like some will use Psalm 51:5 to prove original sin which is absolutely absurd). Todd Bentley can say I'm lost all he wants but until he can drink posion and not die I can BIBLICALLY say he is lying and needs to repent of his lies.

 

4. No its simply because people want to use parts of the bible and ignore others. Pentacostals, as you mentioned, will speak tongues and the real serious ones will handle snakes. However Jesus also said that you can drink a posionous drink and not die. Calvinist believe some people are predestined to go to hell. Are these biblical doctirnes? NO but because denominations proof text and don't read the whole bible and disreguard their church doctrine for biblical doctrine over time you get thousands of denominations. This isn't a hit against christianity this is a hit against christians that follow the doctrines of men and not the word of God. But then again the bible predicted it would be this way.

 

5. If you had true knowledge of God you would know that God doesn't dwell in places made with hands, but in the heart of the believer. The believer is called the temple of the living God because we have the Holy Spirit living within us. Going to church doesn't necessarily make you a christian or even prove you have a genuine faith. But if a "christian" can ramble off derek jeeters batting average, career, highlights but not even recite 3 scriptures from memory something is terribly wrong with that persons faith. But yes I am really a christian.

[Justin]

But the bible says that a woman should be dressed modestly.

 

This the same Bible that says women should not speak in church, that they should have their head covered and only ask something via their husband? Also, is it the same Bible that endorses the view that women are inferior/the property of men?

[Guest FaithDefender619]

1. No a real christian doesn't have sex out of marriage.

So how do you know that the couple you saw wasn't married? I know people who get married but not necessarily wear their rings. Oh, wait, it's a sin not to wear the rings, right? Real Christians must have two wedding bands, and wear them at all times.

 

Fornication is a sin and God has called us to he holy and separate from the lust of the flesh.

Where does it say anything about marriage in the Bible? Where are the instructions to the holy matrimony ceremony in the Bible?

 

And should women be in a sack cloth NO. But the bible says that a woman should be dressed modestly.

Short skirts are modest in my opinion. No skirt would be beyond modest.

 

When these women dress in skin tight dresses it causes men to lust after them.

Wait! You mean it causes YOU to lust after them.

 

Perhaps it would be better for you to become a homosexual then? Then you don't have to lust for women. Smart solution, right?

 

(And btw, I'm hetero. I'm just giving you a tip to overcome the lustful desires you're suffering from.)

 

I mean so many women wonder why they wind up with creeps and guys who want them just for sex but then think nothing of entering into a club with a dress that might as well be painted on (Go figure that huh...lol).

Right. I know many women who ended up with creeps without painting their bodies. It seems like the creeps can be found everywhere. Go figure.

 

2. Yezzir. Now this isn't to say that I haven't sinned since salvation to my own shame but I repented of that sin and stopped it.

So you're living a completely sin-free life today? Good job.

 

But it sounds like you're lusting after women above since you have a problem with scantily clothed women. Perhaps you're not as holy as you think; hence, you're not a pure, true, or real Christian either.

 

What a shame. I thought we had found the real Christian finally, but you're just another sinful and deceived Christian like all the rest.

 

1. Asked, they weren't married.

 

2. Who says there has to be a ceremony? And the word marriage is used 21 times in the King James Bible, Marry 21 times, Wife over 150 times, Husband over 150 times.Jesus said that man shall leave his parents and cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh. That's marriage right there.

 

3. Short skirts aren't modest. Girls wear those things to get men to look at them and do what they want.

 

4. No it doesn't cause me to lust after them, it kinda repulses me now. And becoming a homosexual is still a sin so that would be like replacing AIDS with terminal cancer.

 

5. And in our overly sexualized civilization is it any wonder? I mean really, you can't turn on the TV, go outside or go on the internet without getting some sort of sexual image.

 

6. Who said I lust after women? I said women wear skin tight clothes to get men to lust after them. That's not saying I lust after them. It's a big turn off when I see women dressing like that.

[Guest ephymeris]

When these women dress in skin tight dresses it causes men to lust after them.

Wait! You mean it causes YOU to lust after them.

 

This FTW. Don't blame the woman for your own sinful heart Faith, Jesus knows the truth about your sins of lust!

[Justin]

1. I didn't say sex was bad I'm saying fornication (sex out of marriage) is a sin.

 

2. It has nothing to do with what I don't like the bible clearly says that sex out of marriage is sin. The bible doesn't come against going to a ball game but if you are more obcessed with sports than with God that is called idolatry and that is a sin.

 

Yes, because only through an offical government acknowledgement of your union can you have sex. You have to pay them marriage taxes before you can have fun. I know many folks who have been happily together for many years longer than many marriages and have no problems. You can say so what, they are still wrong, but that is pure conjecture based on your book of myths.

 

As for the rest of what you said, if Jesus said you can drink posion and not die, then why don't you do this? If he said it then why do you say it is not biblical?

 

One thing you don't seem to understand about denominations is that EVERY thing you said in your last three paragraphs can be said by anyone in any other denomination. Plus, any other denomination can point out this and that verse to back up what they believe. Every denomination thinks that they are right and are the sole keepers of the truth while the others are not. You've not said anything at all to lend any truth to your claim as being the only 'right' believer.

 

It's been said that most christians hold the Bible and God as a ventriliquist puppet on their lap. They have their hand up his back and control his eyes, his head movements, and what comes out of his mouth. Or, that nobody is really sure what the Bible means, but each and every believer thinks it means what THEY say.

 

But then again the bible predicted it would be this way.

 

What if you are a part of the 'wrong' crowd? Now of course you think you're not, you think you are as right as right can be. But just imagine that you are wrong and all the umpteen million other denominations are right about you.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

But the bible says that a woman should be dressed modestly.

 

This the same Bible that says women should not speak in church, that they should have their head covered and only ask something via their husband? Also, is it the same Bible that endorses the view that women are inferior/the property of men?

 

 

1. Yes women shouldn't teach in church that is the role of the man? So what? This is the order God created. This doesn't put men above women in order of importance but God chose to put men at the head of the church. I mean look at today women are increasingly taking leadership roles in churchs and men are punking out of their roles and the churches are more liberal than ever.

 

2. The bible endorses the view that women are property? Like Deborah the prophetess and judge over Israel (they had judges before they had kings) or Queen Esther?

[Guest FaithDefender619]

1. I didn't say sex was bad I'm saying fornication (sex out of marriage) is a sin.

 

2. It has nothing to do with what I don't like the bible clearly says that sex out of marriage is sin. The bible doesn't come against going to a ball game but if you are more obcessed with sports than with God that is called idolatry and that is a sin.

 

Yes, because only through an offical government acknowledgement of your union can you have sex. You have to pay them marriage taxes before you can have fun. I know many folks who have been happily together for many years longer than many marriages and have no problems. You can say so what, they are still wrong, but that is pure conjecture based on your book of myths.

 

As for the rest of what you said, if Jesus said you can drink posion and not die, then why don't you do this? If he said it then why do you say it is not biblical?

 

One thing you don't seem to understand about denominations is that EVERY thing you said in your last three paragraphs can be said by anyone in any other denomination. Plus, any other denomination can point out this and that verse to back up what they believe. Every denomination thinks that they are right and are the sole keepers of the truth while the others are not. You've not said anything at all to lend any truth to your claim as being the only 'right' believer.

 

It's been said that most christians hold the Bible and God as a ventriliquist puppet on their lap. They have their hand up his back and control his eyes, his head movements, and what comes out of his mouth. Or, that nobody is really sure what the Bible means, but each and every believer thinks it means what THEY say.

 

But then again the bible predicted it would be this way.

 

What if you are a part of the 'wrong' crowd? Now of course you think you're not, you think you are as right as right can be. But just imagine that you are wrong and all the umpteen million other denominations are right about you.

 

1. Nowhere in the bible does it say a marriage license makes u an official couple. In some states there are common law marriages where you are considered married after living together for a period of time. The bible says that man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

 

2. I'm not claiming supernatural powers like talking tongues. Now we can get into a whole study as to why talking tongues, drinking posion and handling snakes today isn't biblical but basically those things were signs to unbelieving Jews. Talking all that crazy jibber jabber isn't biblical the apostles and the biblical saints spoke human languages to the jews who were scattered around the reigon who spoke different languages. The jews required a sign, Israel was made with signs, the hebrews came out of egypt with signs from God, Jesus virgin birth was a sign and his whole ministry was based on signs and wonders.

 

3. I'm not saying I'm the only right believer. There are lutherans, catholics, methodist etc who love God, keep his word, are born again and are going to heaven. But as far as church denominations the bible says they are wrong.

 

4. And to them I would say that the bible is quite clear in what it says. But in the past 100 years (and really since the 2nd century with groups like the gnostics, spiritualizing everything in the scripture, the relativism movement) there has been an increasing departure from biblical literalism (not to be confused with letterism) and a move toward personal interpretation of the bible if they even use the bible at all.

[Justin]

1. Yes women shouldn't teach in church that is the role of the man? So what? This is the order God created. This doesn't put men above women in order of importance but God chose to put men at the head of the church. I mean look at today women are increasingly taking leadership roles in churchs and men are punking out of their roles and the churches are more liberal than ever.

 

2. The bible endorses the view that women are property? Like Deborah the prophetess and judge over Israel (they had judges before they had kings) or Queen Esther?

 

So just because they don't have a penis between their legs they cannot preach god's word? If i was God i wouldn't care one bit which sex devoted their life to proclaiming my word, and what type of god would i be if i excluded one person based on the type of genitalia they had? People who believe this load of crap often fuss at women in the work place if they are in a position above a man, like a female boss. Also, this crap has been justified for centuries in holding women down and not letting them have jobs, an education and the right to vote.

 

What is wrong with a liberal church? Oh i see. They are progressive and destroy thousands of years worth of Biblical bigotry and sexisim.

 

Look at the OT (Old Testament), part of the spoils of war was virgin women. In Exodus, "Three times a year God wants to see all of the males. The females he never wants to see." 23:17

 

To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. Exodus 13:2, 13:12-15

 

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, ... nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's." In the Bible, women are the property of men; they are his possessions -- like an ox or an ass. Exodus 20:17

 

"Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord." But what about the "women children"? Don't they ever get to appear before the Lord? Exodus 34:23

 

Only unblemished males are to be killed and offered to God. Females don't even make good burnt offerings. Leviticus 1:3, 10

 

When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do. Leviticus 4:22-28

 

She shall be unclean."

Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. (And baby girls make them twice as sinful and dirty as baby boys do.) Leviticus 12:1-5

 

"If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days ... And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days."

If a boy is born, the mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days. Leviticus 12:2, 4

 

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks ... and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days."

If a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be purified for 66 days. This is because, in the eyes of God, girls are twice as dirty as boys. Leviticus 12:5

 

"If a woman have an issue, and her issue ... be blood..." (God's law for menstruating women)

They are unclean and sinful. Anthing that they touch is unclean. Anyone who touches anything that they touch is unclean. Stay completely away from them. (And for God's sake, don't even think about having sex with them!) Leviticus 15:19-30, 33

 

"If a woman have an issue, and her issue... be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even." Leviticus 15:19

 

"And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean." Leviticus 15:20

 

"And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even." Leviticus 15:21

 

If a man has sex with an engaged slave woman, scourge the woman, but don't punish the man. (Even if he raped her?) Leviticus 19:20-22

 

God defines the value of human life in dollars and cents. Of course, to God, females are worth considerably less than males (50 - 60%) -- but neither are worth much. Leviticus 27:3-7

 

When "Moses numbered them according to the word of the Lord" he was told to count "every male from a month old and upward." Women and girls didn't count as persons. Numbers 3:15-16

 

Miriam and Aaron (Moses' brother and sister) criticize Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman and thus breaking the law of God. But God makes it clear that his rules don't apply to his favorites, and he strikes Miriam with leprosy. Notice that only Miriam is punished, though both she and Aaron complained. Numbers 12:1, 9-10

 

If a man dies and has no son, then his inheritance goes to his daughter. But if he has a son, then the daughter gets nothing. Also no mention is made of wives, sisters, or aunts. Numbers 27:8

 

If men make vows, then God expects them to keep them. But a woman cannot make a vow, unless it is "allowed" by her husband or father. If it is "allowed," then she must keep it -- but even so, she is not responsible (her husband or father is). Numbers 30:3-16

 

If a man dies before his wife has a child, then the widow must marry her husband's brother -- whether she likes him or not, and whether she wants to or not. Deuteronomy 25:5

 

If two men fight and the wife of one grabs the "secrets" of the other, "then thou shalt cut off her hand" and "thine eye shall not pity her." Deuteronomy 25:11-12

 

Caleb offers to give his daughter to whoever conquers the city of Debir. Caleb's nephew wins the contest and is given his cousin for a prize. Joshua 15:16-17

 

When "the spirit of the Lord" comes upon Jephthah, he makes a deal with God: If God will help him kill the Ammonites, then he (Jephthah) will offer to God as a burnt offering whatever comes out of his house to greet him. God keeps his end of the deal by providing Jephthah with "a very great slaughter." But when Jephthah returns, his nameless daughter comes out to greet him (who'd he expect, his wife?). Well, a deal's a deal, so he delivers her to God as a burnt offering -- after letting her spend a couple of months going up and down on the mountains bewailing her virginity. Judges 11:29-39

 

The priest tells David that he and his men can eat the "hallowed" bread if "they have kept themselves at least from women." David assures the priest that they have and that "the vessels of the young men are holy." So it'd be OK for them to eat the holy bread. i Samuel 21:4-5

 

Then there are the numerous verses that tell about how much a man should pay a woman's father for her after he has sex with her and then having to marry her whether or not she wants to.

[Justin]

1. Nowhere in the bible does it say a marriage license makes u an official couple. In some states there are common law marriages where you are considered married after living together for a period of time. The bible says that man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

 

Well, how about we talk about what the Bible says about marriage? The numerous wives and concubines that David, Soloman and many other men had that god never said turkey about.

 

But anyway, what do you think constitutes as marriage in god's eyes? If common law marriages are ok then that means technically a couple doesn't even have to get married, just be a ouple for years and years. If some states recognize this as marriage and some states do not, then who, in Go's eyes, is the fornicating couple?

 

Now we can get into a whole study as to why talking tongues, drinking posion and handling snakes today isn't biblical but basically those things were signs to unbelieving Jews.

 

So what you're saying is that it was biblical back then and not today? Folks could drink posion and handle venomous snakes back then? Furthermore, you know that that verse about drinking posion isn't even in the oldest biblical manuscripts, right?

 

Talking all that crazy jibber jabber isn't biblical the apostles and the biblical saints spoke human languages to the jews who were scattered around the reigon who spoke different languages. The jews required a sign, Israel was made with signs, the hebrews came out of egypt with signs from God, Jesus virgin birth was a sign and his whole ministry was based on signs and wonders.

 

How come the Jews did not accept these signs? Seems to me that the whole converting them over process didn't go well at all.

 

I'm not saying I'm the only right believer. There are lutherans, catholics, methodist etc who love God, keep his word, are born again and are going to heaven. But as far as church denominations the bible says they are wrong.

 

LOL. I couldn't point you to a single southern baptist or fundamentalist that i know who would say that the catholics or the lutherans were right. But your statement above just goes to show how different and "i'm right and you are wrong" the lot of them are.

 

4. And to them I would say that the bible is quite clear in what it says.

 

And to you they would say the EXACT same thing. Even have verses to back it up too.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

1. Nowhere in the bible does it say a marriage license makes u an official couple. In some states there are common law marriages where you are considered married after living together for a period of time. The bible says that man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

 

Well, how about we talk about what the Bible says about marriage? The numerous wives and concubines that David, Solomon and many other men had that god never said turkey about.

 

But anyway, what do you think constitutes as marriage in god's eyes? If common law marriages are ok then that means technically a couple doesn't even have to get married, just be a ouple for years and years. If some states recognize this as marriage and some states do not, then who, in Go's eyes, is the fornicating couple?

 

Now we can get into a whole study as to why talking tongues, drinking posion and handling snakes today isn't biblical but basically those things were signs to unbelieving Jews.

 

So what you're saying is that it was biblical back then and not today? Folks could drink posion and handle venomous snakes back then? Furthermore, you know that that verse about drinking posion isn't even in the oldest biblical manuscripts, right?

 

Talking all that crazy jibber jabber isn't biblical the apostles and the biblical saints spoke human languages to the jews who were scattered around the reigon who spoke different languages. The jews required a sign, Israel was made with signs, the hebrews came out of egypt with signs from God, Jesus virgin birth was a sign and his whole ministry was based on signs and wonders.

 

How come the Jews did not accept these signs? Seems to me that the whole converting them over process didn't go well at all.

 

I'm not saying I'm the only right believer. There are lutherans, catholics, methodist etc who love God, keep his word, are born again and are going to heaven. But as far as church denominations the bible says they are wrong.

 

LOL. I couldn't point you to a single southern baptist or fundamentalist that i know who would say that the catholics or the lutherans were right. But your statement above just goes to show how different and "i'm right and you are wrong" the lot of them are.

 

4. And to them I would say that the bible is quite clear in what it says.

 

And to you they would say the EXACT same thing. Even have verses to back it up too.

 

1. God doesn't always have to get you back for what you do when you do it. God can punish you today, tomorrow a year from now etc etc. But both men repented of their sin.

 

What constitutes marriage in Gods eyes according to the law of Moses is sex. Part of the old covenant law was that if you had sex with an unmarried women you had to pay the father and marry her and never divorce. But in both new and old covenant leaving your parents to be with your wife was considered cleaving and becoming one flesh.

 

2. I'd love to see proof of this.

 

3. Many did but a lot haven't. We can only speculate why many were still caught up in the Old testament law, many were so blind spiritually that they couldn't see what was going on. But the jews have been cursed with spiritual blindness, which is why today christian missionaries aren't really too favorable in Israel. They suffer spiritual blindness but one day they will see.

 

4. No don't get me wrong their doctrine is wrong. DEAD WRONG. Mary worship, the sacrements etc are all wrong and unbiblical. However there are people who truly have a heart for God in those systems.

 

5. The bible isn't written in verses its written in books. You cannot point to a verse and say SEE!! We are told to preach and teach the whole council of God. Not just a verse or a proof text.

[Justin]

1. God doesn't always have to get you back for what you do when you do it. God can punish you today, tomorrow a year from now etc etc. But both men repented of their sin.

 

But, just like with slavery, why didn't god just come right out and say it is wrong? He didn't. His silence on the matter would lead one to think he didn't care.

 

What constitutes marriage in Gods eyes according to the law of Moses is sex. Part of the old covenant law was that if you had sex with an unmarried women you had to pay the father and marry her and never divorce. But in both new and old covenant leaving your parents to be with your wife was considered cleaving and becoming one flesh.

 

I won't even get into the whole mess about that not being fair to the woman to marry someone she might not want to marry and how it is the man who must pay for her, like she was property, and never vise versa.

 

So to relate this to the modern age, if a couple who has lived together for years can have sex and it not be fornication, of what use is the biblical concept of marriage?

 

2. I'd love to see proof of this.

 

Ask any Biblical scholar. Read Bart Ehrman's book 'Jesus Interrupted', or 'Misquoting Jesus'.

 

. Many did but a lot haven't. We can only speculate why many were still caught up in the Old testament law, many were so blind spiritually that they couldn't see what was going on. But the jews have been cursed with spiritual blindness, which is why today christian missionaries aren't really too favorable in Israel. They suffer spiritual blindness but one day they will see.

 

So they are cursed and thats why they cannot see the truth. All this time i thought it was because the New Testament Jesus did not fit at all with the Old testament messiah to come. Meaning he wasn't anything at all what the OT said he would be.

 

Furthermore, if they are cursed, then why blame them for it? If i cursed you to always fall down at 2:00pm everyday, why would i get mad at you for falling down at 2:00pm today?

 

4. No don't get me wrong their doctrine is wrong. DEAD WRONG. Mary worship, the sacrements etc are all wrong and unbiblical. However there are people who truly have a heart for God in those systems.

 

Define truly having a heart for god? Like the Muslims truly having a heart for God?

 

5. The bible isn't written in verses its written in books. You cannot point to a verse and say SEE!! We are told to preach and teach the whole council of God. Not just a verse or a proof text.

 

It's funny, because yet again they can say the same thing to you. Verses make up the books and it's all anyone has, and all claim they and only they are right.

[Ouroboros]

1. Asked, they weren't married.

Okay, fair enough.

 

Then my question is, what does the word "married" mean? Is it what a couple becomes after a ordained priest declare them to be so, or is it something which is a spiritual thing which is based on the attitude and devotion between the persons?

 

2. Who says there has to be a ceremony? And the word marriage is used 21 times in the King James Bible, Marry 21 times, Wife over 150 times, Husband over 150 times.Jesus said that man shall leave his parents and cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh. That's marriage right there.

So the ritual is that a couple decides to be "married," or in other words dedicated and devoted to each other. Since the Bible doesn't have any particular wedding ceremony, can't it be that a couple becomes married when they have sex or that they just declare to be together?

 

3. Short skirts aren't modest. Girls wear those things to get men to look at them and do what they want.

No even 100 years ago, showing your ankles was vulgar. Times change. Expectations change. In some countries it's an offense against the women to show any skin at all. If they do, they'll get a beating. That's where you came from, and that's where you want to go back to?

 

4. No it doesn't cause me to lust after them, it kinda repulses me now. And becoming a homosexual is still a sin so that would be like replacing AIDS with terminal cancer.

Nah, I think you desire them and that's why you're so upset.

 

5. And in our overly sexualized civilization is it any wonder? I mean really, you can't turn on the TV, go outside or go on the internet without getting some sort of sexual image.

Wow. Just wow.

 

Perhaps you should move to some Muslim country. They have higher standards than here. It would fit you perfectly.

 

6. Who said I lust after women? I said women wear skin tight clothes to get men to lust after them. That's not saying I lust after them. It's a big turn off when I see women dressing like that.

If you just get a turn-off from it, why are you so rallied up and turned on? You most definitely speak like this is more than just a turn-off. You remind me strongly about people who has a problem and scream loud against it because deep down they're still fighting the temptation.

[Ouroboros]

This FTW. Don't blame the woman for your own sinful heart Faith, Jesus knows the truth about your sins of lust!

So true. It's very typical for prude and weak men to blame the women for their own short-comings.

[NonXNonExX]

Just curious to know what you think, Mr. Defender, since i'll admit i've never had a friend who was a real Xtian. Do you think that men who work out to make their bodies look good and wear revealing clothes to show off their physiques are sinful for tempting guys who might be thinking about switching teams? Since you say girls who dress provocatively turn you off, how about guys who dress to impress? Why does the bible not say anything about this since most Xtians are convinced that God hates the "rainbow sheep"?