Christians Know The Truth

[Dagan]

Sure I can your conscience tells you judgement is real, that God is real that you are a sinner. You know this and if you have closed that part of you off the bible says you are concealing the truth in unrighteousness.

 

And there it is! The good old "you say you're atheists but you secretly believe in God and you just want to sin" argument.

 

Go stand in front of a moving bus. You're an ass. You complain we know nothing about you and unfairly represent you, but you come in throwing this horseshit around. You have no idea how many of us went through agony and pain and psychological torture when we lost our faith, and here you come with your bullhorn to tell us we're just pretending.

 

And again, since you ignored my last question, why are you here? What are you trying to accomplish? I think we're just targets at the end of your bullhorn. You don't give a rip about any of us as human beings. You don't care about the people you shout at on the streets. They're just "lost souls" to you, about as meaningful as voters to a politician -- a means to an end. Well, look on the bright side. When we get sick of your arrogance and turf you, you can feel all proud of yourself during your quiet time with Jesus that you faced the unbelievers, spread the gospel and then shook the dust off your proverbial sandals.

 

Maybe someday you'll use your brain and start wondering if you can really trust the bible, and investigate the fundamentals for yourself -- who wrote it, for who, when, and why. Then maybe someday you'll end up on the other end of the megaphone. But I doubt it. To steal from Terry Pratchett, you've got a mind like a steel ball -- nothing gets in, and nothing gets out. What you think is God is the echos of your own thoughts, and you'll go mad from them eventually.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Yep that's exactly what I said.

So that makes you one out of few Christians who promotes abortion for the sake of religion. Interesting.

 

Objective reading skills apparently wasn't high up on the list for most of your guys in school was it?

[Skankboy]

Sure I can your conscience tells you judgement is real, that God is real that you are a sinner. You know this and if you have closed that part of you off the bible says you are concealing the truth in unrighteousness.

This has to be one of the most offensive arguments anyone can use. In one fell swoop you attempt to completely invalidate all of inner-struggle most of us had to go through in our deconversion.

 

If this thread were in the Lion's Den, I'd go up one side of you and down the other.

 

My conscience tells me to be honest with myself and others. My conscience is why I'm NOT a christian anymore.

 

This statement is particular offensive when in almost the same breath you say:

I'd love to know how you know so much about me without acutally knowing me.

 

I want them to get saved or atleast to go home thinking about what they heard. Normally public speaking is meant to get a reaction or to get people to listen.

Congratulations, you got a reaction. But your technique pretty much ensures no one is going to listen to what you say. I must say you have one of the most ill-applied names I've seen around here.

 

Good luck with that,

[Ouroboros]

Objective reading skills apparently wasn't high up on the list for most of your guys in school was it?

Pfft. You said you would kill if God told you. Do you deny it now and become a liar?

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Objective reading skills apparently wasn't high up on the list for most of your guys in school was it?

This: Pfft. You said you would kill if God told you. Do you deny it now and become a liar?

 

Is a far cry from

 

This: So that makes you one out of few Christians who promotes abortion for the sake of religion. Interesting

 

and the rather detailed explaination I gave after the original statment was made. But again emotional and unobjective reactions by atheist isn't really anything new.

[Ouroboros]

Is a far cry from

 

This: So that makes you one out of few Christians who promotes abortion for the sake of religion. Interesting

 

and the rather detailed explaination I gave after the original statment was made. But again emotional and unobjective reactions by atheist isn't really anything new.

You admitted that you would kill a child if God told you. Do you deny that? It seems like you do now.

 

Almost all Christians consider a fetus to be a child and that's the reason why it's wrong (in their view) to do an abortion.

 

To kill a child which is born, or to kill a child as a fetus, what is the difference?

 

Please explain why you feel that it's wrong (always) to kill a fetus, but not to kill a child?

 

If God commanded you to kill a fetus, would you do it? Yes or not.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Sure I can your conscience tells you judgement is real, that God is real that you are a sinner. You know this and if you have closed that part of you off the bible says you are concealing the truth in unrighteousness.

This has to be one of the most offensive arguments anyone can use. In one fell swoop you attempt to completely invalidate all of inner-struggle most of us had to go through in our deconversion.

 

If this thread were in the Lion's Den, I'd go up one side of you and down the other.

 

My conscience tells me to be honest with myself and others. My conscience is why I'm NOT a christian anymore.

 

This statement is particular offensive when in almost the same breath you say:

I'd love to know how you know so much about me without acutally knowing me.

 

I want them to get saved or atleast to go home thinking about what they heard. Normally public speaking is meant to get a reaction or to get people to listen.

Congratulations, you got a reaction. But your technique pretty much ensures no one is going to listen to what you say. I must say you have one of the most ill-applied names I've seen around here.

 

Good luck with that,

 

1. Quite frankly I highly doubt many of you were actually believers. You were probably church goers but as far as actually born again believers......highly doubtful

 

2. I'm sure there was an inner struggle to try to quell your conscience because you know you are wrong but you conceal the truth in unrighteousness. If thats offensive oh well is it true. Ya betcha.

 

3. So its ok for you (atheist not u in particular) to pass judgement on me and other christians without knowing us but then you get all hurt when we do it (and we're not even passing judgement on you, you just admitted your conscience was giving you trouble about it and the way most of you rage I wouldn't doubt it still does). Holy Hypocrisy Batman!!!!

 

4. Right I'm sure it is. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

5. Preaching about the judgement to come and sin is the method, the Prophets, Jesus (the first hell fire preacher in the bible), the apostles, the early church etc etc. Will people listen to me. Please look at every thread I've been in since I started here this week. People listen, people are reading. If you don't accept or even care to read or listen objectively that is on you. But people will listen and its worked before and it will continue to work in the future. I'm not going to preach about how God loves you or that God accpets everybody becuase that is rubbish. God has wrath for the wicked, judgement for the revilers and scoffers. If you don't like it oh well but that is what the bible says, its what Christ preached and its what I will preach as well.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Is a far cry from

 

This: So that makes you one out of few Christians who promotes abortion for the sake of religion. Interesting

 

and the rather detailed explaination I gave after the original statment was made. But again emotional and unobjective reactions by atheist isn't really anything new.

You admitted that you would kill a child if God told you. Do you deny that? It seems like you do now.

 

Almost all Christians consider a fetus to be a child and that's the reason why it's wrong (in their view) to do an abortion.

 

To kill a child which is born, or to kill a child as a fetus, what is the difference?

 

Please explain why you feel that it's wrong (always) to kill a fetus, but not to kill a child?

 

If God commanded you to kill a fetus, would you do it? Yes or not.

 

Did I say that I approve of killing babies because it would go to heaven? NO. Stop making up stuff.

 

I'll let you continue to debate yourself on more points I didn't even make.

[Ouroboros]

Did I say that I approve of killing babies because it would go to heaven? NO. Stop making up stuff.

Ah. Sorry.

 

But they would go to Heaven though, right?

 

I see what you're saying, you would kill them because God commands you, but you wouldn't kill them to help them to Heaven. It's okay to kill them to send them to Hell, as long as God commands it, but to help them to Heaven would be very awful.

 

Jesus said: let all the children come to me.

 

That's a command, and Jesus is in Heaven. Will you obey?

 

I'll let you continue to debate yourself on more points I didn't even make.

No, I think we sorted it out.

 

You're an evil bastard who would kill people in the name of God. Just like ancient times, with a sword in one hand and the Bible in the other. (The good ol' days)

[Guest FaithDefender619]

Sure I can your conscience tells you judgement is real, that God is real that you are a sinner. You know this and if you have closed that part of you off the bible says you are concealing the truth in unrighteousness.

 

And there it is! The good old "you say you're atheists but you secretly believe in God and you just want to sin" argument.

 

Go stand in front of a moving bus. You're an ass. You complain we know nothing about you and unfairly represent you, but you come in throwing this horseshit around. You have no idea how many of us went through agony and pain and psychological torture when we lost our faith, and here you come with your bullhorn to tell us we're just pretending.

 

And again, since you ignored my last question, why are you here? What are you trying to accomplish? I think we're just targets at the end of your bullhorn. You don't give a rip about any of us as human beings. You don't care about the people you shout at on the streets. They're just "lost souls" to you, about as meaningful as voters to a politician -- a means to an end. Well, look on the bright side. When we get sick of your arrogance and turf you, you can feel all proud of yourself during your quiet time with Jesus that you faced the unbelievers, spread the gospel and then shook the dust off your proverbial sandals.

 

Maybe someday you'll use your brain and start wondering if you can really trust the bible, and investigate the fundamentals for yourself -- who wrote it, for who, when, and why. Then maybe someday you'll end up on the other end of the megaphone. But I doubt it. To steal from Terry Pratchett, you've got a mind like a steel ball -- nothing gets in, and nothing gets out. What you think is God is the echos of your own thoughts, and you'll go mad from them eventually.

 

I take it your an impericist or that you only believe what can observe with the 5 senses right?

[centauri]

...Please look at every thread I've been in since I started here this week. People listen, people are reading. If you don't accept or even care to read or listen objectively that is on you. But people will listen and its worked before and it will continue to work in the future. I'm not going to preach about how God loves you or that God accpets everybody becuase that is rubbish. God has wrath for the wicked, judgement for the revilers and scoffers. If you don't like it oh well but that is what the bible says, its what Christ preached and its what I will preach as well.

You share a trait common with just about every Christian preacher that comes into these forums.

You want people to listen objectively to your subjective preaching.

Then, when they point out flaws in your version of reality you complain that they aren't listening properly.

You claim to know things about God, Hell, and salvation.

You know things with such a high degree of certainty that there can be no other alternatives to your version of truth.

Preachers practice the art of creating reality for others by assertion.

Many simply go along with the preaching and accept it because the preacher seems so sure of himself.

That doesn't happen here.

There is no validation of your reality, other than the circular logic of quoting Bible verses.

Your version of "truth" regarding theology is subjective, not objective.

Parts of it don't even agree with other Christians who are just as certain about the "truth" as you are.

Yet, you want people to accept your subjective perceptions as established universal facts.

[par4dcourse]

1. Quite frankly I highly doubt many of you were actually believers. You were probably church goers but as far as actually born again believers......highly doubtful

We followed our respective religions to the best of our understanding. The fact that your gawd isn't any clearer is his damn fault.

That is an extremely offensive remark. Lion's Den or no, fuck you, your shithead preaching, your imaginary gawd, and your attitude in the ass witha splintery cross.

[godlessgrrl]

Did I say that I approve of killing babies because it would go to heaven? NO. Stop making up stuff.

 

Actually you implied as much a few days ago in the shoutbox during a discussion of whether or not god has killed "innocent" men, women, and children, and whether or not such is okay. I don't recall your exact quote, but I do recall that another user asked you if god had ordered all the people slaughtered during the massacres of the Old Testament, had he ordered the slaughter of "innocent" children too.

 

You replied that yes, he had, and then you added a note that after he had them killed, god then sent the children to heaven. Adding such a footnote suggests that you were attempting to mitigate god's sanctioned murder of innocent children by claiming that the outcome was positive for them.

 

At that point I asked you point blank if you felt it was okay for god to murder children. After some prodding you said yes, it was.

 

Given all that, it's very difficult not to draw the conclusion that you believe that it is okay for god to murder children, in part because he sends them to heaven afterwards.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

1. Quite frankly I highly doubt many of you were actually believers. You were probably church goers but as far as actually born again believers......highly doubtful

We followed our respective religions to the best of our understanding. The fact that your gawd isn't any clearer is his damn fault.

That is an extremely offensive remark. Lion's Den or no, fuck you, your shithead preaching, your imaginary gawd, and your attitude in the ass with a splintery cross.

 

Thats the problem right there you were following a RELIGION and not JESUS CHRIST. You went to church, did your little church activities but NEVER had the HOLY SPIRIT, NEVER really repented of sin, NEVER really had a true saving faith. I was there too. I was a catholic, never repented, never was born again, just did some rituals and never really came to a saving faith in Jesus. THen I lost my faith and became and atheist for 6 years till I found the real Jesus and got filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, REPENTED of my sin and followed Christ is spirit and in truth. ANd thats whats lacking in the church that is why this fourm and many others are filled with "former christians" and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke. Because its just a religion with absolutely no life changing power. with no community changing power, with no world changing power. Its just a dead religion like the pharisees had. Don't like what I'm saying, too bad but its the truth.

[par4dcourse]

and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke.

And you are the punch line.

[Guest ephymeris]

1. Quite frankly I highly doubt many of you were actually believers. You were probably church goers but as far as actually born again believers......highly doubtful

We followed our respective religions to the best of our understanding. The fact that your gawd isn't any clearer is his damn fault.

That is an extremely offensive remark. Lion's Den or no, fuck you, your shithead preaching, your imaginary gawd, and your attitude in the ass with a splintery cross.

 

Thats the problem right there you were following a RELIGION and not JESUS CHRIST. You went to church, did your little church activities but NEVER had the HOLY SPIRIT, NEVER really repented of sin, NEVER really had a true saving faith. I was there too. I was a catholic, never repented, never was born again, just did some rituals and never really came to a saving faith in Jesus. THen I lost my faith and became and atheist for 6 years till I found the real Jesus and got filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, REPENTED of my sin and followed Christ is spirit and in truth. ANd thats whats lacking in the church that is why this fourm and many others are filled with "former christians" and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke. Because its just a religion with absolutely no life changing power. with no community changing power, with no world changing power. Its just a dead religion like the pharisees had. Don't like what I'm saying, too bad but its the truth.

I would love to know what exactly gives you the balls to think you know how we practiced our faith? I know it brings you great comfort to believe we all gave a half-assed go at being Christians but that is simply untrue. No matter what crazy doctrine you adhere to, at least some of us were at one time your brand of True Christian. We prayed earnestly and fervently, bore fruits of the spirit, proselytized the words of Jesus, and worshipped with our hearts, minds, voices, and soul. You are GRAVELY wrong in this, your most offensive and frequently parroted idea of how you could never be us.

[par4dcourse]

 

Thats the problem right there you were following a RELIGION and not JESUS CHRIST. You went to church, did your little church activities but NEVER had the HOLY SPIRIT, NEVER really repented of sin, NEVER really had a true saving faith. I was there too. I was a catholic, never repented, never was born again, just did some rituals and never really came to a saving faith in Jesus. THen I lost my faith and became and atheist for 6 years till I found the real Jesus and got filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, REPENTED of my sin and followed Christ is spirit and in truth. ANd thats whats lacking in the church that is why this fourm and many others are filled with "former christians" and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke. Because its just a religion with absolutely no life changing power. with no community changing power, with no world changing power. Its just a dead religion like the pharisees had. Don't like what I'm saying, too bad but its the truth.

Amazing. You don't even know my name, ;yet you dismiss my entire childhood outright. I didn't see you there when i was saved, didn't see you when I started to analyze what I had been taught. Didn't see you during my hours of agonizing over "gods will."

Fucking pretender. FaithPretender.

[godlessgrrl]

Oh, I forgot to add, re this assertion:

 

Did I say that I approve of killing babies because it would go to heaven? NO. Stop making up stuff.

 

In post #110 in this thread, you state the following (emphasis added):

 

Now again are there times like with the Midianites or the Amalekites where God commanded everybody must be done away with even babies. Yes. That is the judgement of God. However the babies live in heaven forever so what is the big deal? And God can make and break His rules as He pleases.

 

I don't think it's necessary to add anything to your own words. They stand well on their own.

[godlessgrrl]

Thats the problem right there you were following a RELIGION and not JESUS CHRIST. <arrogant religious posturing snipped>

 

I love how the same believers who will spew this sort of self-righteous arrogant garbage will then turn around and in the same breath declare that we're the arrogant ones.

 

I forgive you, FD619, for I doubt you know what you do. You seem like a very angry and bitter person. It must be because some nonbeliever hurt you. I'm sorry for whatever it was that nonbelievers did to you to make you into such an unpleasant individual. It's unfortunate that your faith hasn't helped you become less angry. Maybe one day you'll find something that will.

 

Good luck.

[Ouroboros]

and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke.

And you are the punch line.

OH SO PWND!!!

 

---

 

And thank you Gwen. You double pwnd him.

[belladonna]

P4D and Gwen, you two rock.

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

FaithDefender, in all of your posts I have come to understand that the church I was raised in and all the things I believed in were almost exactly the same as yours. Its a very sad way to live I think, so I feel sorry for you. Every answer you have given is the same I would have given years ago (well except I would have been nicer - just saying). I was saved through the 5 steps of salvation: Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, Baptism by immersion in water. I believed that there was no other way to be saved so the vast majority of Christians were not saved even if they thought they were. So I understand, I do. Perhaps someday someone will come along and really shake up your solidly held worldview and you will get a glimpse of a bigger picture, a more complete and beautiful way to live. Perhaps not. And hey, maybe you, and my old church, are right and we really are all doomed here. Still I would choose to be doomed with those that I love than saved and miserable and dishonest with myself. I know none of this 'discussion' is doing anyone any good. But I'll give you that you are honest with the scriptures and consistent in your firm belief (to all the creepy conclusions that can lead to). It just hasn't made you a very nice person and doesn't seem to make you very happy either. But again, that is consistent with the bible.

 

My church focused on trying to save misguided Christians and would not have bothered with people who did not at least believe in the divinity of the bible. Makes me wonder still if you are really just trying to cause conflict for the sake of conflict because nothing you have said has even approached a good way to convert non-believers. I mean, I am a lost cause. I know, all to well what being a True Christian means and I cannot do it. There is no biblical reason to continue to engage with stubborn non-believers especially when you are only further turning so many off to Christianity.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

 

Thats the problem right there you were following a RELIGION and not JESUS CHRIST. You went to church, did your little church activities but NEVER had the HOLY SPIRIT, NEVER really repented of sin, NEVER really had a true saving faith. I was there too. I was a catholic, never repented, never was born again, just did some rituals and never really came to a saving faith in Jesus. THen I lost my faith and became and atheist for 6 years till I found the real Jesus and got filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, REPENTED of my sin and followed Christ is spirit and in truth. ANd thats whats lacking in the church that is why this fourm and many others are filled with "former christians" and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke. Because its just a religion with absolutely no life changing power. with no community changing power, with no world changing power. Its just a dead religion like the pharisees had. Don't like what I'm saying, too bad but its the truth.

Amazing. You don't even know my name, ;yet you dismiss my entire childhood outright. I didn't see you there when i was saved, didn't see you when I started to analyze what I had been taught. Didn't see you during my hours of agonizing over "gods will."

Fucking pretender. FaithPretender.

 

You just said you were following your RELIGION to the best of your ability. The bible says follow JESUS CHRIST not some religion. And the last 1/2 of my post was in regard to american christiaity not about you.

 

 

How did you get saved?

[Guest FaithDefender619]

and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke.

And you are the punch line.

 

[Guest FaithDefender619]

1. Quite frankly I highly doubt many of you were actually believers. You were probably church goers but as far as actually born again believers......highly doubtful

We followed our respective religions to the best of our understanding. The fact that your gawd isn't any clearer is his damn fault.

That is an extremely offensive remark. Lion's Den or no, fuck you, your shithead preaching, your imaginary gawd, and your attitude in the ass with a splintery cross.

 

Thats the problem right there you were following a RELIGION and not JESUS CHRIST. You went to church, did your little church activities but NEVER had the HOLY SPIRIT, NEVER really repented of sin, NEVER really had a true saving faith. I was there too. I was a catholic, never repented, never was born again, just did some rituals and never really came to a saving faith in Jesus. THen I lost my faith and became and atheist for 6 years till I found the real Jesus and got filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, REPENTED of my sin and followed Christ is spirit and in truth. ANd thats whats lacking in the church that is why this fourm and many others are filled with "former christians" and that is why american christianity as a whole is a joke. Because its just a religion with absolutely no life changing power. with no community changing power, with no world changing power. Its just a dead religion like the pharisees had. Don't like what I'm saying, too bad but its the truth.

 

 

I would love to know what exactly gives you the balls to think you know how we practiced our faith? I know it brings you great comfort to believe we all gave a half-assed go at being Christians but that is simply untrue. No matter what crazy doctrine you adhere to, at least some of us were at one time your brand of True Christian. We prayed earnestly and fervently, bore fruits of the spirit, proselytized the words of Jesus, and worshipped with our hearts, minds, voices, and soul. You are GRAVELY wrong in this, your most offensive and frequently parroted idea of how you could never be us.

 

The gentleman said he practiced his RELIGION. This isn't a religion its following Jesus Christ. The pharisees had a religion and Jesus called them white washed tombs full of dead mens bones.

 

 

Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)

 

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

 

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

Simply becuase you did all these works doesn't prove you were a chrsitain. Seriously it doesn't I'm not trying to make a mockery of you but it is what it is, doing works doesn't make u a christian. Mormons, Jehovas witnesses, Catholics and Muslims do the same things. Did you repent and come to a TRUE faith in Christ. Maybe you did maybe you didn't if the fruit of your faith was departing from God ultimately you never really knew Him. You are the seed that fell on stony ground, it sprung up but then died because it had no depth of earth. Those are the words of Jesus my friend. Your faith had no real depth to it. You got questioned, you got deceived and then it died. I'm simply telling it like it is.