NotBlinded Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 We seem to be getting a bunch of those superfical, bible-banger, bible worshipers lately. I noticed that it goes in waves. The sudden influx of multiple crazies for a short spurt, then it's quiet for a while. You mean we're not supposed to go to the Christian sites and challenge them to convert a bunch of Ex-Christian heathens who are thirsting for the knowledge of God? Shyone! Oh, I see now what has happened. Well, next time pick a site that has people with brain cells will ya? Sheesh...some people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 You mean we're not supposed to go to the Christian sites and challenge them to convert a bunch of Ex-Christian heathens who are thirsting for the knowledge of God? Aha! So that's why it's happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 We seem to be getting a bunch of those superfical, bible-banger, bible worshipers lately. I noticed that it goes in waves. The sudden influx of multiple crazies for a short spurt, then it's quiet for a while. You mean we're not supposed to go to the Christian sites and challenge them to convert a bunch of Ex-Christian heathens who are thirsting for the knowledge of God? Shyone! Oh, I see now what has happened. Well, next time pick a site that has people with brain cells will ya? Sheesh...some people! Is there such a thing as a non-Christian site that is a Christian site? I kid the Christians. I really do. I note that on this site, even the Christians we have had lately for short bursts of inanity are likely well above average intelligence. I have spent time with those whose IQs are significantly less than 100, and I don't think they understand theology at all - the arguments for or against. Makes you wonder if the mentally retarded make it to heaven (if it really existed). If they are violent and depraved, but too stupid to know, does it matter? If they say they believe everything you say - about Jesus, Mohammed and the 3 bears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 So he was banned? Rightfully so I guess. Why should we put up with some idiot coming into our home trying to pretend he knows more about our lives than we do ourselves. He was arrogant, condescending, insulting, prideful and had few traits of what a Christian should have if they were truly one. It's just a pity that he will leave still in his delusion and believing his own BS. He will feel he has earnt brownie points for being "persecuted", even though he was the one doing the persecuting. He will continue to believe that we are the hypocrites, when clearly he is. He will refuse to see that he is the pharasee. He will refuse to see that his Christianiy is no different to what ours was and that he is in the same boat we wer - he too could easily fall from the faith if he were to just open his mind and read the bible without his Christian goggles on. It's a pity he will remain ignorant and in his delusion. But maybe once he has been a Christian for as long as many of us have, he'll come to realise that the bible really is BS and that his God is only in his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 He was telling the truth, he was a Real Christian. Like OnceConvinced are saying, FD was condescending, arrogant, judgmental, self-righteous, and so on, and now he can wipe of the dust from his sandals and wave his fist at us and go to the next non-Christian site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Is there such a thing as a non-Christian site that is a Christian site? I kid the Christians. I really do. I note that on this site, even the Christians we have had lately for short bursts of inanity are likely well above average intelligence. I have spent time with those whose IQs are significantly less than 100, and I don't think they understand theology at all - the arguments for or against. Makes you wonder if the mentally retarded make it to heaven (if it really existed). If they are violent and depraved, but too stupid to know, does it matter? If they say they believe everything you say - about Jesus, Mohammed and the 3 bears? I don't know Shyone. I do know many Christians that are above average intelligence. They are capable of deeper insight into the bible than the ones we have had here lately. Of course, it could be just a stubborn front...they know what they sound like, but will still stand by it. It seems the ones that stop by here are ones of the "child-like" faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I'm done with you. Bye-bye. The banhammer has spoken. Sorry but FD was an and incredibly willfully dense. It was exhausting and annoying. Glad he's gone Glory be to the banhammer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Don't argue with Thor's Banhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I'm done with you. Bye-bye. The banhammer has spoken. Thank you for banning FD, Han. He was fun to poke and play with for awhile but eventually the toxicity was just too much. Thank you for kicking him out. Have a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I don't know Shyone. I do know many Christians that are above average intelligence. They are capable of deeper insight into the bible than the ones we have had here lately. Of course, it could be just a stubborn front...they know what they sound like, but will still stand by it. It seems the ones that stop by here are ones of the "child-like" faith. Their faith is feigned "child-like" methinks. FD, for example, knew the apologies for virtually every biblical passage we disputed the meaning of, he had a coherent (albeit contrived) intricate salvation "strategy", and he tread lightly where angels fear to tread (theological quicksand). He was a regular Houdini when it came to slight of theology. Even mary was "well-versed" in many respects. My image of a Christian who is naive is one that doesn't have any response to simple questions, not one that "doesn't think things through." No Christian really considers the implications of the OT or even the NT in any real sense of the word. Really, I suppose you'd have to talk to them in person, but these Christians have heard the criticisms. Most of the ones that are truly Child-like have never had to confront any biblical criticism. I realize that these are not "theologians" and don't have any background in textual criticism, but FD, as annoying as he was, was familiar with the Hebrew translations, Septuagint, Greek NT, mythology, prebiblical civilizations, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Everything he said was exactly the way I was brought up. Reading his thread on Salvation was a creepy blast from the past for me. His views on the average American Christian are things I hear from my dad constantly. FaithDefender is what you get when you are completely convinced that the bible is completely perfect and you do as much work to make it so as humanely possible. Growing up for me, that was the default setting I was allowed to accept. FD didn't have that growing up, he chose it later. I wonder why. My dad grew up Roman Catholic but he never believed it and stopped going to church and confessional and all that as soon as he could. My dad doesn't say he was an atheist at this time he just didn't have a religion and didn't think about religious things and generally thought religious people were fooling themselves on some level. Then his girlfriend just out of high school (my mom) gets pregnant (with me). Anyway, as young quasi religious people often do when this happens, they got married and got fundy. Eventually my dad was satisfied by the non-denominational Church of Christ because, like FD they have a seemingly endless supply of answers to every problem which in comparison to some makes the whole thing look intellectual. In fact normal church services for me growing up was much like any post of FD's. Taking apart doctrine, showing where other people got it wrong, using Greek and Hebrew translations to clarify, basically trying to make us all into little CoC theologians. I can remember reading the story of the rape of Tamar and the concubine that was gang raped to death at 9 in bible school as each detail was dissected and discussed with academic coldness. The danger of all of this is that it beats the empathy out of you. Because life's importance is minimized so greatly, the hardships and injustice is also minimized. This isn't the god of love, he's simply GOD and we should be grateful there is a way to avoid horrific eternal punishment at all. Most people leave an emotional church for intellectual reasons. I left a (comparatively) intellectual church for emotional reasons. Sorry for ALL this rambling. I had a lot of unfinished thoughts about FD and his views that I once shared. At the very least it gave me a preview of what it might look like to talk about these things with my dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I can remember reading the story of the rape of Tamar and the concubine that was gang raped to death at 9 in bible school as each detail was dissected and discussed with academic coldness. The danger of all of this is that it beats the empathy out of you. Because life's importance is minimized so greatly, the hardships and injustice is also minimized. This isn't the god of love, he's simply GOD and we should be grateful there is a way to avoid horrific eternal punishment at all. I think you have peeled back the layers and got to the core of the problem. All the convoluted details of the N.T. pull the believer away from the good side of his/her own humanity, and hurls the believer towards the dark side. It's scary to watch someone approve of the N.T.'s condemnation so coldly. Sorry you were subjected to that as a child. Good thing you were smart enough to recognize the manipulation and injustice. By the way, the asshole ignored my posts. Thanks for banning him Hans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Everything he said was exactly the way I was brought up. Reading his thread on Salvation was a creepy blast from the past for me. His views on the average American Christian are things I hear from my dad constantly. <snip> Sorry for ALL this rambling. I had a lot of unfinished thoughts about FD and his views that I once shared. At the very least it gave me a preview of what it might look like to talk about these things with my dad. That explains a lot! It explains why there is intellectual rigidity with no empathy. I wondered how one could actually get so deep into the Bible and think that it was all "ok." It even explains the quick apologies for absolutely indefensible passages in the Bible, all the way through denial of the actual meaning of the text by twisting and adding things. Curious that FD took the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter and wound up with an interpretation that requires one to add to the text things that aren't there in order to make the obvious meaning into something different from what is written. I wonder if there is even a road back from that precipice of inhumanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Curious that FD took the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter and wound up with an interpretation that requires one to add to the text things that aren't there in order to make the obvious meaning into something different from what is written. One of my first clues that I was going to gave to let it all go - I couldn't keep on making the bible say things it didn't say, and explain how it didn't say things it clearly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george caitlin Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Please allow me to be a bit of a contrarian. I felt sorry for FD in that it was obvious (at least to me) that he was here on this site subconciously arguing with himself, trying to quell the growing religious doubts seeping up from deep in his own mind. What better Freudian way to re-affirm his own sagging beliefs than to do battle for Christ against those terrible atheist unbelievers? Perhaps he just maintained that he was an atheistic for years to gain "street cred", but if any part of that was true then I suspect the irrationality of Christianity was starting to play on his mind more and more often. I would give even money odds that in the next year or so you will see HIS deconversion story listed on this very website. Also, even though in his present, deluded state he was very annoying, you do realize that every minute you had him reading and responding to your posts was one less minute he had to do his "street preaching"? Think of all of the innocent pedestrians you saved from his sanctimonious preachiness. (For this same reason, I try to engage telephone con artists and keep them talking and engaged as long as possible - one, or more, less phone call(s) they can potentially make to some gullible old senior citizen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Please allow me to be a bit of a contrarian. I felt sorry for FD in that it was obvious (at least to me) that he was here on this site subconciously arguing with himself, trying to quell the growing religious doubts seeping up from deep in his own mind. What better Freudian way to re-affirm his own sagging beliefs than to do battle for Christ against those terrible atheist unbelievers? Perhaps he just maintained that he was an atheistic for years to gain "street cred", but if any part of that was true then I suspect the irrationality of Christianity was starting to play on his mind more and more often. I would give even money odds that in the next year or so you will see HIS deconversion story listed on this very website. Also, even though in his present, deluded state he was very annoying, you do realize that every minute you had him reading and responding to your posts was one less minute he had to do his "street preaching"? Think of all of the innocent pedestrians you saved from his sanctimonious preachiness. (For this same reason, I try to engage telephone con artists and keep them talking and engaged as long as possible - one, or more, less phone call(s) they can potentially make to some gullible old senior citizen.) I like your attitude and style. I'm not convinced, however, that FD would ever lose his faith. I just have not been able to accurately predict who will and who won't. It seems to be almost random. I've looked at 1) intelligence, 2) specific beliefs, 3) churches, 4) methods, 5) "strength" of belief and a host of other things to see who might convert or not. Or course, it could take many years for that to happen, but in the testimonial pages you can see that there is no logic or reason to why some fall away. There are just different ways that people lose their faith. Evidence of one thing or another seems to run right into a belief and that may be a trigger, but even then it's possible to ask for help and have someone "explain it away." In the end, it seems to be more alike an involuntary reflex. The believer just can't believe anymore, even if they try. Whether that comes from a period of searching or just seeing someone that is an idiot spouting your beliefs, there is no controlling or predicting it. Statistically, however, I think the odds of falling away are relatively low, or we would have a lot more atheists in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george caitlin Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 You're probably right, Shyone, FD may be bothering people on street corners for the next 40 years. The only glimmer of hope that I see, however, is that he himself sought out this site that was created for "recovering Christians". All of those other life-long Christians who stay in their movement seem extremely smug and self-satisfied in their beliefs, and don't want to engage non-believers other than to harangue and bellow at them. Very few of them try to convince themselves, er, other people, by harrassing them on street corners and on the internet. He may yet come to his senses. Namaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 You're probably right, Shyone, FD may be bothering people on street corners for the next 40 years. The only glimmer of hope that I see, however, is that he himself sought out this site that was created for "recovering Christians". All of those other life-long Christians who stay in their movement seem extremely smug and self-satisfied in their beliefs, and don't want to engage non-believers other than to harangue and bellow at them. Very few of them try to convince themselves, er, other people, by harrassing them on street corners and on the internet. He may yet come to his senses. Namaste. We can only hope. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko47 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 So he was a representative of Jesus and the Message, was he ? God needs better staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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