Christians Know The Truth

[Shyone]

 

Well that's a statement of faith not actually something you can prove.

 

Jesus did forgive them. Father forgive them for they know not what they do, ring a bell?

Ahem. "I forgive you" is not the same as "Father forgive them."

 

Unless you are saying that Jesus is not God. Ok. I believe that.

 

The only way to make theological sense is to reword it as, "Me, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

[Guest FaithDefender619]

well it isn't a suprise that you have a neat little answer to make my whole struggle a romp in the kiddie pool.

 

(snip)

 

izm

 

1. I'm not making it anything. I'm simply saying that you blaming it on christianity and God is simply illogical. If you had a real faith and your strength was really in the Lord then you wouldn't be trying to do something so foolish as to try to kill yourself. If your church followed unbiblical doctrine then leave, there are plenty of churches around and if not you can start your own fellowship its not that hard. But to blame the "church" for your condition is a copout.

 

 

2. I'm not saying the emotions weren't real, I mean if you tried killing yourself then obviously they were real, however the cause and object of those emotions are misplaced. Your issue isn't with the bible or christianity it was the church you attended. And like I said if they were teaching false hoods get up and leave and don't look back. I went to several churches when I first got saved and they were all teaching unbiblical non-sense. However that isn't God's fault nor is it a reason to try to kill myself.

 

3. So in essence you departed from the faith and then gave in to subjective feelings and so on and then let that be your guide. Well to each His own but my friend I warn you sternly that the wrath of God is upon you unless you turn back to the true God and worship Him in spirit and in truth and not in some churches false doctrine.

 

4. No I think it was because you were unstable as is normally the case with most suicide attempts.

 

 

! wait a moment. how many times in my little testamonial did i mention being upset with god or church. I was prayerfull and seeking and beliveing that god would lead me. I TRUSTED his spirit even after i came agaisnt things i found illogical or untrue within the bible and the contradictions of doctrine.

 

2 you are assumning again. It was not church nor god that let me down but Finding the correct interpretations fo the bible that has me confused. SO many churches, which taught the truth. It was my Search for Truth that was frustrated in the church.

 

3. no your assumptions are messing you up again. I foudn out through study that the thing i was praying to is and always was subjective. the bible was made by men but the personal relationship is always subjective. For example when you pray, is it to your loving father, or lord (bible verse) i pray that (bible verse bible verse bible verse bible verse) and please let me know the path that you would have me take casue (bible verse) promises you will.? And when you get an answer in your heart THAT answer is your subjective personal idolatry you claim is Jehova god.

 

I should hope that your relationship is more personal. It was for me. I prayed to my daddy, i told him where i hurt and i waite don the bible verses to come to me in the spirit. And THAT was also my subjective experience. No different than yours.

 

4. well darn. I am not sure all suicide can be so labeled. I was desparate yes. Desparate for truth. And felt so hopeless that it was not to be fodn in this world....that is within the bible's interpretation of the world.

 

And i was right. You haven't spoken a word of truth yet.

 

my attempt on my self was spoken as an illustration of my deep desire for knowledge of god. And i know now that i have sinned, having cast my perals before swine.

 

(i am done with you, dont even respect you enough to fix my typing)

 

1. You said that you felt like you were lying to god for being at a church which taught doctrine that wasn't true in light of scripture. And you said that God let you fall away. And if you believe the Holy Spirit authored the bible (which is biblical doctrine) apparently you didn't trust the Holy Spirit. Also you didn't mention that you studied the bible to see if these so called contradictions were true.

 

2. You said you prayed to God that he wouldn't let you slip away and He did. That sounds like you're saying God let you down. What churches teach isn't the truth unless the WHOLE bible confirms it. Yes every church USES the bible but does every church use the WHOLE bible. That is the question.

 

3. Subjective means that God changes from person to person but God in the bible says He doesn't change. So you are praying to "God" and getting unbiblical and what almost sounds like gnostic/theosophy (satanic) revelations.

 

4. There is no "subjective" experience, what you are talking about itself is completely unbiblical. If what you are saying then Joseph Smith, Muhammed, Ellen G White, Benjamin Creme, Alice Bailey and HP Blavatsky etc were all having the same experience with God but just a different subjective experience with him. Which is wholly inept logic. Why would the unchanging God of the universe give contradicting revelations. And if this is the case then why are you and others mad that I'm a fundamentalist maybe thats my subjective revelation from God.

 

5. How do you know I haven't spoken a word of truth. Its subjective right. Truth cannot exist in your epistemology only in mine. I would ask you stop copying my world view. You have no standard for truth only subjective expressions.

 

6. Deep desire and deep faith are two different. And a deep desire for what god? As I said before the demons believe and tremble. So saying you had a deep desire for God doesn't mean you had or even still have a deep faith in God. Perseverance and willingness to give your life for the faith are the indicators of a real faith in biblical terms.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

 

Well that's a statement of faith not actually something you can prove.

 

Jesus did forgive them. Father forgive them for they know not what they do, ring a bell?

Ahem. "I forgive you" is not the same as "Father forgive them."

 

Unless you are saying that Jesus is not God. Ok. I believe that.

 

The only way to make theological sense is to reword it as, "Me, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

 

You really are going to act like Jesus never said or acted like He was God in the bible aren't you?

 

And you are really going to act like Jesus never before this asked the Father for things, aren't you?

 

No it wouldn't because you and everybody else understands what the trinity is and isn't. Jesus isn't the Father nor is He the Holy Spirit.

[Ouroboros]

My point exactly if I said God hates you the emotions and angry responses would come flowing in. But does God hate you? Psalm 5:5 says God hates all workers of iniquity. Pslam 7:11 says God is angry with the wicked EVERYDAY. This isn't to say that God hates in terms of how humans hate, that once God hates you that's it He's done with you. But sinners do have wrath stored up with God.

Eh? We have wrath with something we don't believe in?

 

Why are you so angry with Santa Claus?

 

 

Does that show His true nature? Well if as a christian you were taught that God was this good ol' gandpappy in the sky, then yeah. God is love but God isn't JUST love. He is long suffering and compassionate, BUT He also has anger and wrath.

Yes, I was taught that God was the good ol' gandpappy. He was also Satan Claus.

 

God as angry and wrathful. Yup. You gotta love the imagery.

 

Overall it seems like Satan is a much nicer character. He killed very few people in the Bible. He tricked Adam and Eve to gain wisdom and knowledge about good and evil was (something that gappappy should have taught them), and most of the time it was God killing people or commanding it to be done. Besides, only God demands blind obedience to rules he proclaims, which he changes over time, and demands that people don't think or use their brain. So hey, I think I prefer the guy who actually promotes reason instead of obedience under duress.

 

God is just angry and hateful. He despise humanity and wants to crush it for every little mishap. If God could get his way, he would destroy us all and start over... again because he can never get it right. Poor little God.

[Dagan]

 

1. Dec 25 being biblical

2. Saying that christians only follow 1/2 the bible because we don't follow the OT Law.

3. That God killed himself and prayed to himself (Jesus).

 

 

That's crap. You're taking things one or two people said out of context, and in jest, and making a straw man to attack. And 2 and 3 are true, from a certain point of view. You refuse to engage anyone by trying to see their point of view, even if you disagree with it. So of course you would think those views are lies.

 

 

That is however what we call a conscience and it was telling you, you were wrong for abandoning God.

 

 

Really? So all the times I cried out to god in prayer, prayed to Jesus "I believe, help my unbelief," the absolute mental anguish I felt while something inside me died and I begged God to show me how to keep it alive, it was just my conscience laying a guilt trip on me! Wow, thanks for clearing that up. Thank goodness you're not a doctor, you'd be blaming your patients for whatever ailments they might have.

 

 

However that is neither here nor there. And as far as self righteous venom, please, have you actually read some of the boo hoo victimology that goes on around here. Just the mean, bitter, angry, anti-christian rhetoric and propaganda that is spewn out. If you want to hate me that's fine but really grow some objectivity.

 

 

I was objective, and gave you the benefit of the doubt, and tried to engage you in a conversation, until you ignored everything I wrote. I was forced to conclude you're not here to have a conversation, you're here to screech and beat your chest and bellow through your bullhorn.

Again, even Paul had the courtesy on Mars Hill to try and find some common ground on which to converse with the unbelievers there. You have all the courtesy of a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman.

 

 

3. My "cancer hijacking interesting threads". LOL. Really after only a week I have so sullied this site that I'm a cancer and hijack threds? The only threads I've entered into and replied to are those that are addressing christan issues such as this one, James 3:7, Believers World View is ego-centric and a few others that have to do with christianity. I would imagine that if a real debate was trying to be fostered, other than the typical anti-christian, self-back patting I'm so smart atheist stroke fest, then a christian should participate in them.

 

This site is not for you. You are here as a guest, and you've worn out your welcome. I can't imagine why the mods keep you around, probably for their own amusement.

 

And cancer's kind of the wrong word, isn't it? You don't really spread like a cancer. So I have decided you're more like a kidney stone, painful and irritating but you'll pass eventually. And in that metaphor, feel free to piss off anytime.

 

Have a nice day on the mean streets of San Diego! Scare a few well-dressed gay men holding hands for me, OK?

[OnceConvinced]

 

I sure can. The bible talks about people who fall away. You may have had faith but it had no REAL depth and your fallen away state is only proof of that.

Correction. What it's proof of is that the bible is wrong, that it is ignorant man's wisdom and not the word of God. We know this because we have been there and found out the hard way. You still have the crazy belief that the bible is the infallible word of God.

 

And I do talk to you. And 100% of the time you confirm what the bible says without fail. Many of you may not want to admit it, many of you need to have been a deep Christian because it gives you street cred as an atheist but whatever your reason for not admitting that your faith wasn't really that deep it wasn't.

But that's the thing it's not proving the bible correct. It's proving the bible wrong. We have our own lives and our own testomonies as proof of the depth we had. We know! But you cannot see beyond words in a religious book. You have decided that you have the answer and nothing is going to convince you otherwise. It shows that you have no ability to think beyond what the words of the bible say. You are not able to use reason and logic. You have a very dogmatic view of the bible.

 

And what makes you think you are the only atheist I've talked to? I used to be an atheist for the 1st 6 years of my adult life. I talk to atheist on atleast 4 other forums, as well as in real life. And 100% of the time what the bible says is TRUE.

Funny. For me I found a lot of the bible was false and I found out the hard way when I attempted to put its principles into action. It was very heartbreaking.

 

Yes they did all these things (church, ministries, vowed to stay away from sin, "repent", ministries etc etc) but that is not indicative of a real faith. What is indicative, is the one thing you failed on, perseverance in the face of question and adversity. And in that you all failed at it. Remember the early church endured far worse than having than not being able to answer a few questions from the bible, questioning their faith or whatever. They were getting killed in some very ferocious ways. Crucified, burned, thrown to wild animals for entertainment, beaten, scourged etc. And they not only kept the faith many went to their deaths singing with joy in their hearts. So to tell me that you or others had real and deep faith when the biblical as well as historical christians faith was enough to keep them going even while facing death, whilst yours didn't even see you through a relative nudge, I'm sorry but you didn't have real faith. The bible says it was in vein.

What a strawman! How can anyone compare themselves to those people. You just don't get that type of persecution in this day and age. How can you possibly know that anyone's faith wouldn't have been strong enough to deal with that sort of stuff? You don't. Once again you listen to writings written by ignorant men from thousands of years ago. I know how strong and deep my faith was. I would have faced torture and death for Christ, whether you believe that or not, I don't care. That's how dedicated to Christ I was.

 

Again I'm not trying to mock anybody but seriously the truth is the truth.

The truth is the truth, but if you go to the bible for it, you're not going to get it. Sorry.

 

In light of what biblical faith entails (perseverance and willingness to give everything up to and including your life) you didn't have it.

Have you given up everything for Christ? Obviously not, or you wouldn't be sitting at a computer posting messages here. Can you seriously say that you have been faced with death or torture for your faith? I doubt that very much. What makes you think you would have faith strong enough to endure such persecution?

 

Anyway, even Peter denied Jesus three times out of fear of being harmed. Would you say his faith wasn't deep? Would you count him as a false Christian?

[OnceConvinced]

My point exactly if I said God hates you the emotions and angry responses would come flowing in. But does God hate you? Psalm 5:5 says God hates all workers of iniquity. Pslam 7:11 says God is angry with the wicked EVERYDAY. This isn't to say that God hates in terms of how humans hate, that once God hates you that's it He's done with you. But sinners do have wrath stored up with God.

Eh? We have wrath with something we don't believe in?

 

Why are you so angry with Santa Claus?

Santa Claus is a complete bastard. When I was a kid, he always gave all the rich kids the best gifts while I got crap stuff. I was always a good boy too! Then one day he just stopped bringing me gifts at all. I am so bitter and angry when it comes to that fat bastard. If I ever see him...!

 

Oh and another thing I'm angry at are fairies. Dirty little buggers shit all over my garden furniture. Pluck leaves off the trees in fall, plant weeds in my garden, never bother to help out in keeping the yard looking tidy. Damn I hate them, the little shits!

[Guest FaithDefender619]

 

1. Dec 25 being biblical

2. Saying that christians only follow 1/2 the bible because we don't follow the OT Law.

3. That God killed himself and prayed to himself (Jesus).

 

 

That's crap. You're taking things one or two people said out of context, and in jest, and making a straw man to attack. And 2 and 3 are true, from a certain point of view. You refuse to engage anyone by trying to see their point of view, even if you disagree with it. So of course you would think those views are lies.

 

 

That is however what we call a conscience and it was telling you, you were wrong for abandoning God.

 

 

Really? So all the times I cried out to god in prayer, prayed to Jesus "I believe, help my unbelief," the absolute mental anguish I felt while something inside me died and I begged God to show me how to keep it alive, it was just my conscience laying a guilt trip on me! Wow, thanks for clearing that up. Thank goodness you're not a doctor, you'd be blaming your patients for whatever ailments they might have.

 

 

However that is neither here nor there. And as far as self righteous venom, please, have you actually read some of the boo hoo victimology that goes on around here. Just the mean, bitter, angry, anti-christian rhetoric and propaganda that is spewn out. If you want to hate me that's fine but really grow some objectivity.

 

 

I was objective, and gave you the benefit of the doubt, and tried to engage you in a conversation, until you ignored everything I wrote. I was forced to conclude you're not here to have a conversation, you're here to screech and beat your chest and bellow through your bullhorn.

Again, even Paul had the courtesy on Mars Hill to try and find some common ground on which to converse with the unbelievers there. You have all the courtesy of a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman.

 

 

3. My "cancer hijacking interesting threads". LOL. Really after only a week I have so sullied this site that I'm a cancer and hijack threds? The only threads I've entered into and replied to are those that are addressing christan issues such as this one, James 3:7, Believers World View is ego-centric and a few others that have to do with christianity. I would imagine that if a real debate was trying to be fostered, other than the typical anti-christian, self-back patting I'm so smart atheist stroke fest, then a christian should participate in them.

 

This site is not for you. You are here as a guest, and you've worn out your welcome. I can't imagine why the mods keep you around, probably for their own amusement.

 

And cancer's kind of the wrong word, isn't it? You don't really spread like a cancer. So I have decided you're more like a kidney stone, painful and irritating but you'll pass eventually. And in that metaphor, feel free to piss off anytime.

 

Have a nice day on the mean streets of San Diego! Scare a few well-dressed gay men holding hands for me, OK?

 

1. No I'm being serious there are "ex-christians" who claim to have been super christians but seriously believe these things are biblical or are apart of christian doctrine. I have talked to plenty of atheist and watched plenty of their movies like "The God That Wasn't There" or "Religilous" or "Zeigiest" and none of this (not ever 2/3 of it) is true. And IF you actually read the bible and didn't just parrot snide little sarcasms that atheist try to pass off, you'd know it wasn't biblical.

 

2. But you still fell away. When I said that was your conscience I meant that your conscience was (and chances are still is) telling you that you are wrong for abandoning God. I'm not saying you didn't go through anything in departing from the faith. Leaving my catholic faith behind before I went atheist was pretty hard too. That still doesn't prove you had a deep faith. Only persevering and willingness to die for it does as the bible states. You can keep getting angry with me for saying this and that's fine but that is what it says.

 

3. So let me get this straight. The premise of this thread in the OP is that christians know christianity is false because so many of them only go to church when they feel like it and are more interested in sports and things like that. And the first few responses are along those lines and giving the usual sneering anti-christian attacks (like most of the threads on here that I don't post in do). And I come along and suggest that maybe these christians aren't really christians and after loads of emoional vomit from everybody, not to mention my citation of the bible which says people who fell away from the faith as having had a shallow faith, which wasn't really an attack or even me "dismissing" you and others but rather quoting what the bible says. And some how I'm an caring and unwelcoming? Are you serious? Again have you read 1/2 the threads in this forum alone? I mean seriously they are outrageously angry, hateful, bitter, anti-christian and these are the ones before I got here last week. Seriously you are being a little too over emotional about this.

 

4. I Can't understand why people even bother replying to me if I'm such a terrible person. And nobody has yet to show or explain to me what I've said, am saying or do or have done that warrants this over exaggerated emotional responses my post.

[bdp]

 

4. I Can't understand why people even bother replying to me if I'm such a terrible person. And nobody has yet to show or explain to me what I've said, am saying or do or have done that warrants this over exaggerated emotional responses my post.

 

You're not a terrible person - you're a judgemental little cunt. You rode in here full of assumptions about us and why we rejected your religion - you know nothing about us and you don't give two shits about any of us. So fuck off.

[OnceConvinced]

That is however what we call a conscience and it was telling you, you were wrong for abandoning God.

 

 

Really? So all the times I cried out to god in prayer, prayed to Jesus "I believe, help my unbelief," the absolute mental anguish I felt while something inside me died and I begged God to show me how to keep it alive, it was just my conscience laying a guilt trip on me! Wow, thanks for clearing that up. Thank goodness you're not a doctor, you'd be blaming your patients for whatever ailments they might have.

 

You see FaithDefender? This is why people are getting so pissed off with you. You just want to flag all the pain and anguish that many of us suffered when were realised we were losing our faith and you want to put it down to wilful rebellion on our part. Many of us lamented and prayed and begged God to help us, but we got not answers. For many of us it was like loosing a precious child who was raped and murdered by some monster. And no that's not just us doing a big whine, this is us telling it how it was. But you are so proud, self-righteous, hard-hearted and dogmatic to see this. So much for Christ's love. So much for the fruits of the holy spirit. You seem to have none of them, which the bible says a true Christian should have. And no doubt when you finally go running off with your tail between your legs, realising that all you've done is push us further from your so-called God, we'll see that you don't have the fruit of longsuffering either.

[OnceConvinced]

 

 

4. I Can't understand why people even bother replying to me if I'm such a terrible person. And nobody has yet to show or explain to me what I've said, am saying or do or have done that warrants this over exaggerated emotional responses my post.

Give me a break. People have been trying to tell you why, but you're just not paying attention. It seems you're being willfully dense.

 

Perhaps the reason why people talk to you is because they know the damage people like you do and want to stop you from spreading your poison amongst the weakminded. Perhaps it's because they're hoping they may be able to help you shake the delusion you're living in. Perhaps they want you to be able to see the truth? Maybe they actually care? I for one am certainly glad I had such people talking to me three years ago when I was in your shoes preaching and judging people.

[Dagan]

 

2. But you still fell away. When I said that was your conscience I meant that your conscience was (and chances are still is) telling you that you are wrong for abandoning God. I'm not saying you didn't go through anything in departing from the faith. Leaving my catholic faith behind before I went atheist was pretty hard too. That still doesn't prove you had a deep faith. Only persevering and willingness to die for it does as the bible states. You can keep getting angry with me for saying this and that's fine but that is what it says.

 

 

I like how you turn my personal revelation into something about you. How do you know how deep my faith was? I haven't told you the half of it. How do you know I wasn't willing to die for my faith? The only reason you keep repeating this is because your entire premise fails if I ever was a "true" christian, because it casts doubt on your entire worldview. Therefore, it's all about you, everything you say on this topic is to protect that worldview you hold so dear.

 

 

3. So let me get this straight. The premise of this thread in the OP is that christians know christianity is false because so many of them only go to church when they feel like it and are more interested in sports and things like that. And the first few responses are along those lines and giving the usual sneering anti-christian attacks (like most of the threads on here that I don't post in do). And I come along and suggest that maybe these christians aren't really christians and after loads of emoional vomit from everybody, not to mention my citation of the bible which says people who fell away from the faith as having had a shallow faith, which wasn't really an attack or even me "dismissing" you and others but rather quoting what the bible says. And some how I'm an caring and unwelcoming? Are you serious? Again have you read 1/2 the threads in this forum alone? I mean seriously they are outrageously angry, hateful, bitter, anti-christian and these are the ones before I got here last week. Seriously you are being a little too over emotional about this.

 

 

Again, you refuse to acknowledge that I, and several others, tried to have a civil conversation with you. But you ignored those attempts. Again, because it's all about you. You want to see us as hateful god-bashing baby jesus-eating wanna-be sinners, so that's how you see us.

 

 

4. I Can't understand why people even bother replying to me if I'm such a terrible person. And nobody has yet to show or explain to me what I've said, am saying or do or have done that warrants this over exaggerated emotional responses my post.

 

I don't think you're a terrible person. I think you're an annoying, misguided person who refuses to acknowledges what other people say when it conflicts with his pre-conceived notions.

 

I keep replying because of a morbid curiousity, I guess, kind of like poking a bloated dead cat on the side of the road to see when it will explode.

 

You amuse me.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

 

I sure can. The bible talks about people who fall away. You may have had faith but it had no REAL depth and your fallen away state is only proof of that.

Correction. What it's proof of is that the bible is wrong, that it is ignorant man's wisdom and not the word of God. We know this because we have been there and found out the hard way. You still have the crazy belief that the bible is the infallible word of God.

 

And I do talk to you. And 100% of the time you confirm what the bible says without fail. Many of you may not want to admit it, many of you need to have been a deep Christian because it gives you street cred as an atheist but whatever your reason for not admitting that your faith wasn't really that deep it wasn't.

But that's the thing it's not proving the bible correct. It's proving the bible wrong. We have our own lives and our own testomonies as proof of the depth we had. We know! But you cannot see beyond words in a religious book. You have decided that you have the answer and nothing is going to convince you otherwise. It shows that you have no ability to think beyond what the words of the bible say. You are not able to use reason and logic. You have a very dogmatic view of the bible.

 

And what makes you think you are the only atheist I've talked to? I used to be an atheist for the 1st 6 years of my adult life. I talk to atheist on atleast 4 other forums, as well as in real life. And 100% of the time what the bible says is TRUE.

Funny. For me I found a lot of the bible was false and I found out the hard way when I attempted to put its principles into action. It was very heartbreaking.

 

Yes they did all these things (church, ministries, vowed to stay away from sin, "repent", ministries etc etc) but that is not indicative of a real faith. What is indicative, is the one thing you failed on, perseverance in the face of question and adversity. And in that you all failed at it. Remember the early church endured far worse than having than not being able to answer a few questions from the bible, questioning their faith or whatever. They were getting killed in some very ferocious ways. Crucified, burned, thrown to wild animals for entertainment, beaten, scourged etc. And they not only kept the faith many went to their deaths singing with joy in their hearts. So to tell me that you or others had real and deep faith when the biblical as well as historical christians faith was enough to keep them going even while facing death, whilst yours didn't even see you through a relative nudge, I'm sorry but you didn't have real faith. The bible says it was in vein.

What a strawman! How can anyone compare themselves to those people. You just don't get that type of persecution in this day and age. How can you possibly know that anyone's faith wouldn't have been strong enough to deal with that sort of stuff? You don't. Once again you listen to writings written by ignorant men from thousands of years ago. I know how strong and deep my faith was. I would have faced torture and death for Christ, whether you believe that or not, I don't care. That's how dedicated to Christ I was.

 

Again I'm not trying to mock anybody but seriously the truth is the truth.

The truth is the truth, but if you go to the bible for it, you're not going to get it. Sorry.

 

In light of what biblical faith entails (perseverance and willingness to give everything up to and including your life) you didn't have it.

Have you given up everything for Christ? Obviously not, or you wouldn't be sitting at a computer posting messages here. Can you seriously say that you have been faced with death or torture for your faith? I doubt that very much. What makes you think you would have faith strong enough to endure such persecution?

 

Anyway, even Peter denied Jesus three times out of fear of being harmed. Would you say his faith wasn't deep? Would you count him as a false Christian?

 

1. I've been there too, and I know its true. And wether or not u cried about it, lamented over it, whatever whatever the point is you still fell away. And again I point to the early church who endured severely worst torture and punishment for their faith than you ever could imagine and they stayed the course even unto death. This is biblical and historical christian faith. Anything less is simply not cutting it.

 

2. And again I'm not just relying on what the bible says. I'm relying on what you former christians say and what you had was a church faith NOT a biblical faith. I've read testimonies, I have one of my own, I talk to people who departed the faith etc etc. You seem to gloss over that point that I made. I'm not relying on the bible I'm relying on what has been said and weighing that against what scripture says and it is 100% true.

 

3. Such as?

 

4. Yes the heck you do. Not in America but China, India, Russia, Vietnam, Iran, Israel etc Christians are persecuted and killed. And they still endure. What is the faith that the early church had some how lost in this generation. Jesus today and then told us we must count the cost. How do I know their faith wouldn't have been strong enough to endure that, well look at the relatively weak stress it cracked under. I mean seriously if a steel beam cracked under the weight of a small child what makes you think it would be worthy to be put into a building? If questions and internal conflict crack you, what makes you think the threat of death wouldn't have? Or even the worst forms to torture? No you wouldn't have endured. You're telling me your faith was strong enough to endure torture and death threats but not what you went throught? C'mon........really?

 

5. Actually yes, I have. I gave up my old life of shameless fornication, partying, decadence, God hating, drunkeness, masturbation, porn watching etc. The only reason I even have a job now is because I need to pay off debts before I can go off an become a missionary. I have indeed given up my life.

 

Have you ever been alone preaching the gospel around a bunch of drunks on halloween? Its not exactly the safest thing to do. How do I know that I would be willing to be tortured and die for my faith, because I don't really care about my life. Its nothing to me. Life is a fleeting moment, a vapor in light of eternity. So yes I can say with confidence that I would give my life and think nothing of it for the faith.

 

Yes at that time Peter did have a weak faith BUT he repented of that. Have you read about His life after that point? Definitely Peter became a great man of God. And if you repent and turn back to God you too can be forgiven.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

 

4. I Can't understand why people even bother replying to me if I'm such a terrible person. And nobody has yet to show or explain to me what I've said, am saying or do or have done that warrants this over exaggerated emotional responses my post.

 

You're not a terrible person - you're a judgemental little cunt. You rode in here full of assumptions about us and why we rejected your religion - you know nothing about us and you don't give two shits about any of us. So fuck off.

 

What judgement did I pass on you? That you had a shallow faith? I'm telling you what the bible says. I can be told over and over that I'm delusional for believing in a book written by men, that I'm stupid for not seeing that my faith is based on older pagan myths, that I'm dumb for not belieivng in evolution so on and so on, and all that is A-OK. But as soon as I say that you had a shallow faith (in something you don't believe in anymore and are willing and constant attacker of anyway) I'm judgemental, full of assumptions, hateful, I never tried to understand you (I wonder where all this emotion is in the threads that mock the christian faith), I should be banned, I'm a cancer, I'm this and that?

 

Its funny that the same people who make the most inflammatory and hateful threads against threads against christiantiy and what we supposedly believe, such as this one which pre-supposes that christianity is false because its supposed adherents care more about things of the world than the actual faith, become such blathering victimologist when a christian is supposedly attacking them. Seriously get over yourselves you forked tongued hypocrites.

[OnceConvinced]

 

1. I've been there too, and I know its true. And wether or not u cried about it, lamented over it, whatever whatever the point is you still fell away. And again I point to the early church who endured severely worst torture and punishment for their faith than you ever could imagine and they stayed the course even unto death. This is biblical and historical christian faith. Anything less is simply not cutting it.

Once again I point out that in no way did persecution or difficulties cause me to fall away from the faith. Contrary to what you might want to believe, not all of us became ex-Christians for this reason. What caused me to fall away was the realisation that the bible was wrong in so many ways and that it could not be relied upon.

 

My point in talking about lamenting about loss of salvation to try to make you see why people get so pissed off with you when you make light of peoples deconversion and when you try to claim that they were simply willfully rebelling against Christ. YOu try to tell us how it is with us and we know darn well how it was with us. That is why we get pissed off. How do you like it when people try to tell you about your life when they know nothing about it and try to tell you about attitudes you never had? Wouldn't that get on your goat just a little bit?

 

2. And again I'm not just relying on what the bible says. I'm relying on what you former christians say and what you had was a church faith NOT a biblical faith. I've read testimonies, I have one of my own, I talk to people who departed the faith etc etc. You seem to gloss over that point that I made. I'm not relying on the bible I'm relying on what has been said and weighing that against what scripture says and it is 100% true.

You take scriptures and dogmatically take them as the infallible word of God. Because the bible says that anyone who falls from the faith can't have had the depth to their faith, you take that as an indisputable fact. Then you claim because we are not Christians anymore we are proving that scripture true. It would never even occur to you that perhaps the scripture is wrong or you are interpreting it wrong. Are you willing to question scripture and consider that perhaps it might be wrong?

 

You seem to ignore what people tell you and come up with your own preconcieved ideas. You can't put us all into one box. It may be that because you have so many people replying you may be getting mixed up with some of us, but you have made several incorrect assumptions about me, including the belief that I fell from the faith due to life's difficulties, which is not true. You have also presumed that I was willfully rebelliant towards God when I deconverted, which is not true. You have also presumed that I still deepdown believe that God is real and the bible is true, but that's not true.

Funny. For me I found a lot of the bible was false and I found out the hard way when I attempted to put its principles into action. It was very heartbreaking.

 

3. Such as?

Man, I could print a never ending list of specific examples, but here's a few:

 

Turning the other cheek. Blessing your enemies. These things turn you into a dormat for bullies.

 

Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened. If this was true I wouldn't be an ex-Christian today.

 

God will protect his followers: (we all know that's a crock)

Psalm 91: 1-16

 

Call unto me and I will answer you.

 

Cast your burdens on the lord and he will sustain you.

 

Here's an outright bible lie:

Lev 20:21

“ ‘If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

 

 

And then we have all the stuff that science has disproved, unfulfilled prophecies, all the ignorance of ancient man, the contradictions (and yes they are there. Sure you can try to justify them but they're there), the ridiculous stories which have been debunked time and time again, like the Great flood story

 

I colated a big list of prophecies and promises from God that clearly haven't been kept, but I can't find it right now, which is kind of frustrating. But I think the ones I listed are enough.

 

 

4. Yes the heck you do. Not in America but China, India, Russia, Vietnam, Iran, Israel etc Christians are persecuted and killed. And they still endure. What is the faith that the early church had some how lost in this generation. Jesus today and then told us we must count the cost. How do I know their faith wouldn't have been strong enough to endure that, well look at the relatively weak stress it cracked under. I mean seriously if a steel beam cracked under the weight of a small child what makes you think it would be worthy to be put into a building? If questions and internal conflict crack you, what makes you think the threat of death wouldn't have? Or even the worst forms to torture? No you wouldn't have endured. You're telling me your faith was strong enough to endure torture and death threats but not what you went throught? C'mon........really?

As a Christian I was absolutely convinced I would be able to endure. What about you? Do you think you could endure that sort of treatment? Really??

 

5. Actually yes, I have. I gave up my old life of shameless fornication, partying, decadence, God hating, drunkeness, masturbation, porn watching etc. The only reason I even have a job now is because I need to pay off debts before I can go off an become a missionary. I have indeed given up my life.

Oh so you're up there with Jesus now? Perfect and sinless? Yeah, whatever, mate. So when are you going to sell your computer? When are you going to cut your Internet connection and give the money you save on it to God? You haven't given up everything yet, bub, not by a long shot. No, you're not that perfect are you? You're no more special than any other Christian. More self-righteous, smug and proud, but definitely no more holy.

 

Have you ever been alone preaching the gospel around a bunch of drunks on halloween? Its not exactly the safest thing to do. How do I know that I would be willing to be tortured and die for my faith, because I don't really care about my life. Its nothing to me. Life is a fleeting moment, a vapor in light of eternity. So yes I can say with confidence that I would give my life and think nothing of it for the faith.

Oh come on, you're comparing a little danger preaching to drunks to torture and all that other hellacious stuff you were talking about early? Puleeeease! Why should we believe you would be willing to give up your life? Why should we even respect your words when you won't respect our words, when we tell you how dedicated we were to Jesus when we were Christians? You snort at us and say "Huh, your faith was never that deep". Why should we believe your faith is that deep? How do we know you're not just another Christian spewing hot air?

 

What have you done that's assured you of deep faith that the rest of us haven't? Are you willing to answer that question?

 

Yes at that time Peter did have a weak faith BUT he repented of that. Have you read about His life after that point? Definitely Peter became a great man of God.

It makes no difference what he did after that. The fact was he denied Jesus. If the stories were true and he really had been rubbing shoulders with the son of God, there was no way he would have denied him. And there's no way Thomas would have doubted. Something is seriously wrong there. Very damning evidence that Jesus wasn't all he was cracked up to be.

 

And if you repent and turn back to God you too can be forgiven.

What's the point? According to you even though I dilgently served God, worshiped him, repented and all that jazz, my faith wasn't deep enough. Why would I want to put myself back in the same position I was before? What can I do next time that I hadn't already done before? I can answer that... nothing. Because I did everything the bible expected of me, it just didn't work.

[bdp]

Fuck the bible - it has no authority. And fuck your delusions that we discarded your religion out of weakness. I was what you are now whether you like it or not. I wouldn't be what you are now for all the money in the world - if you're an example of what your 'god' does to people - but then again I would never knowingly defame any deity that way, I do more honor to it by not believing in it than you are doing here. AND no you do not talk TO us, you talk AT us. Fuck that too. Bitch.

[Shyone]

 

Well that's a statement of faith not actually something you can prove.

 

Jesus did forgive them. Father forgive them for they know not what they do, ring a bell?

Ahem. "I forgive you" is not the same as "Father forgive them."

 

Unless you are saying that Jesus is not God. Ok. I believe that.

 

The only way to make theological sense is to reword it as, "Me, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

 

You really are going to act like Jesus never said or acted like He was God in the bible aren't you?

 

And you are really going to act like Jesus never before this asked the Father for things, aren't you?

 

No it wouldn't because you and everybody else understands what the trinity is and isn't. Jesus isn't the Father nor is He the Holy Spirit.

The quotes where Jesus "claimed" to be divine (in a sort of hidden and occult way) were added later when the gospels were finally written in order to support the idea that he was more than just a man. Unfortunately for you, they left in all of the quotes where he denies any claim to godhood. "There is no one good ..." Bunches of others.

 

I agree that "Jesus isn't the Father nor is He the Holy Spirit." That trinity stuff is sheer insanity. Three <click> Three <click> Three gods in One!

 

I still think it's curious that Jesus never said "I forgive you" to the people looking right at him. I suspect that is part of the reason for the violent antisemitism that has persisted for ages - to this day.

[Shyone]

 

Yes at that time Peter did have a weak faith BUT he repented of that. Have you read about His life after that point? Definitely Peter became a great man of God.

It makes no difference what he did after that. The fact was he denied Jesus. If the stories were true and he really had been rubbing shoulders with the son of God, there was no way he would have denied him. And there's no way Thomas would have doubted. Something is seriously wrong there. Very damning evidence that Jesus wasn't all he was cracked up to be.

If Peter had died during his period of weak faith through no fault of his own (like an automobile accident), the he would have gone to hell? But since he lived long enough to repent, he is a great man and a saint?

 

Judgement at death for what happend in life, espcially an eternal judgement, absolutely abrogates the concepts of justice and fairness. When the status at the time of death is the primary determinant of ones fate for eternity, then the determining factor is "Fate" or luck rather than the "person".

 

The Egyptians had a better measurement. The soul was weighed and, if lighter than a feather, the deceased would go to the good place.

[Ouroboros]

Seriously get over yourselves you forked tongued hypocrites.

I'm done with you. Bye-bye. The banhammer has spoken.

[bdp]

Seriously get over yourselves you forked tongued hypocrites.

 

Blow me. And your PM went straight into the trash unopened. Asshole.

[Dagan]

Seriously get over yourselves you forked tongued hypocrites.

I'm done with you. Bye-bye. The banhammer has spoken.

 

And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness.

And there was much rejoicing.

Book of Hans 3:16

[Ouroboros]

And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness.

And there was much rejoicing.

Book of Hans 3:16

Amen.

[NotBlinded]

I second the Amen.

 

We seem to be getting a bunch of those superfical, bible-banger, bible worshipers lately. There was no depth to this one at all. Where is that picture of the guy with the bible strapped on his face? That picture is great and so true.

[Ouroboros]

We seem to be getting a bunch of those superfical, bible-banger, bible worshipers lately.

I noticed that it goes in waves. The sudden influx of multiple crazies for a short spurt, then it's quiet for a while.

[Shyone]

We seem to be getting a bunch of those superfical, bible-banger, bible worshipers lately.

I noticed that it goes in waves. The sudden influx of multiple crazies for a short spurt, then it's quiet for a while.

You mean we're not supposed to go to the Christian sites and challenge them to convert a bunch of Ex-Christian heathens who are thirsting for the knowledge of God?