Christians Know The Truth

[Ouroboros]

1. I'd say its the latter, the marriage is a comitment between two people "cleaving" together.

 

2. It can but since fornication is sex outside of marriage the commitment would have to come first.

So in your case of the condom-packed guy and the scantly-clad girl, they would be in effect married? After all, if they are committed to each other and had sex, they are in fact married.

 

3. I honestly doubt that is true. I know the victorian era was hyper conservative especially with the dress but if seeing an ankle or a lock of hair gets you sexually excited then you have a seriouslly wicked and perverse mind. And never in the bible does it say to beat a woman for showing any skin at all, that Islam maybe but not Christianity. My objection is women walking around dressing like hookers and men walking around with their pants hanging around their butt. To illustrate the point God killed an animal and used its skin to cover adam and eve after they only sewed some fig leaves together. Clothes are meant to cover not provoke people to lust after you.

My point is that the lust for women is not dictated by how much skin the woman shows but how much fantasy the guy applies to what he sees. There are these tribes where women wear nothing but a cloth. Bare breasted and no underwear, and yet they can live in peace. How is that? I think it's more about social learning than a particular clothing style.

 

4.I'm not upset I just don't think its attractive for a woman to look like a hooker.

Then why are you so bothered by it and judge people based on your view of hookers? And how do you know how hookers look like? You have some personal experience in the field?

 

5. Do you know how sexually perverse Islam is? The muslim heaven is a sex perverts dream come true.

Even after they dress their women in burqas. Obviously it doesn't help.

 

6. Speak strongly against it? I said one thing about.

No? You're judging people based on it. Women dressed like that are harlots, sinners, and false Christians. Isn't that how you presented it?

[Justin]

1. Slavery as practiced by Europe and America is condemned in the bible

 

Exodus 21:16 - And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

 

Colossians 4:1 - Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

 

 

Exodus 23:9 - Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

 

there are plenty of verses in the bible that condemn slavery.

 

But there are many more than endorses it. You must be crazy, right? Go here and actually learn something about the Bible you love so much. http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl1.htm

 

Before you pull the typical christian trick of saying they weren't slaves but butler type servents, keep in mind you could not beat your butler so that if he died a few days after the beating you won't get in trouble. You couldn't beat your butler period. Did you know that verse is in your precious Bible? One could beat their slave until they died on the spot and the slave owner would be punished, but if the slave died a few days later, the owner would have nothing done to them. Plus, you don't sell butlers. It is clear that the Bible endorses actual slavery. This is made more apparent by taking victims, mostly virgins, as spoils of war.

 

 

3. What manuscirpts are he using to come to these conclusions?

 

Can't remember right off but it is in that book. Ehrman is one of the top biblical scholars on the planet, i'm suprised you haven't heard of him. Furthermore, that verse not being in the oldest texts i thought was generally accepted by all but the most fundamentalist christians.

 

4. Don't let that lie fool you Jesus Christ does fulfill the OT prophecies of the messiah.

 

What lie? The messiah was supposed to come with both guns blazing and set up his kingdom and be king of Israel. The Jews did not see this in Jesus. They saw a man who came and died by the very ones he was supposed to overthrow. Ehrman also talks plenty about this in 'Jesus Interrupted' and why the Jews for the most part won't accept Christ. Another thing is it just doesn't add up. The very people Christ came to minister to didn't accept him with all those supposed miracles and such. Furthermore, as far as OT prophecies of the messiah go, did you know that the mention of the virgin birth in Isaiah isn't in the oldest manuscript? It was mistranslated, it meant to say "young woman" but somehow "virgin" got put in. I'd say that if you didn't know anything about the verse about drinking poison then this will be new to you to.

 

6. Verses make up the books but if you do not read the whole book and the whole bible you will find conflicting passages and if you aren't reading the whole thing you will come up with false doctrine. As 2 timothy 2:15 (or maybe 3:16 I keep messing those two up) that we are to study to shew ourselves approved unto God, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth.

 

All right then, folks from other denominations could throw complete and whole books at you. It's all the same. You can look at one passage and say it means A while another person reads it and says it means B. Bottom line is christians cannot agree on what the Bible says. You will say that you do and most others in denominations don't, but that just takes us right back to what i have been repeating time and time again to you, that anyone can say that about anyone.

[Justin]

FaithDefender, about how woman dress and get men to lust after them and such. I have a foot fetish, so if a woman is wearing a long sleeve shirt and blue jeans with flip flops and i start lusting after her, is she dressing immodestly? Is she trying to get me to lust after her by wearing flip flops? Maybe Satan is subconsciously telling her to wear flip flops because she might walk past a guy with a foot fetish.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

2. And I never said I alone have the truth. But when you look at the "christian" lives of many professing chrisitans you don't see the power of God, you don't see holiness, you don't see zeal for good works, you don't see people having victory over sin. You see a bunch of hypocrites. I was talking to a friend (an atheist) who told me she was watching the Ray J show and there was a girl on there who was dressed like a skank and doing the slips in one scene and then in the next shes reading the bible. And that is the image most people have of christianity.

 

You seem very fixated on this women-dressed-as-whores thing. I assure you, what christian women wear while they pray or read the bible has never once been top of my mind when I think of christian hypocrisy. Hearing the vomitous, twisted christian concoctions of "love" and "truth" and "judgement" layered on top of nonsensical, double-think mythology, THAT'S what springs to my mind when I think of christian hypocrisy.

 

Thats not hypocrisy thats just not what you want to hear.

[Franko47]

 

My point is that the lust for women is not dictated by how much skin the woman shows but how much fantasy the guy applies to what he sees. There are these tribes where women wear nothing but a cloth. Bare breasted and no underwear, and yet they can live in peace. How is that? I think it's more about social learning than a particular clothing style.

 

As do I. I also observe it is relative. What is now considered modest was once experienced as provocative due to the relative dress of other women at the time. Cover us all up and hide us away is the only way to stop that human phenomenon altogether.

 

Phanta

 

 

I totally agree. I'll bet you 10 to 1 that the average western male has more respect for a smartly dressed woman either in a business suit or sexy summer gear than the Neanderthals in the Middle East that dress their women in burkas. The very act of covering up a woman like that is already projecting "shame" onto her.

[NonXNonExX]

This whole discussion about whether or not a woman should dress provocatively and how provocative is sinful reminds of the joke about the donkey.

 

A man buys a donkey and the previous owner warns him that the donkey only responds to kind words. When the new owner takes the donkey home, he discovers that it doesn't listen to a word he says so he calls the previous owner to complain. The previous owner takes a large 2x4 and smacks the donkey up the side of the head then gently tells it to plow, which it immediately starts doing. The new owner says, "I thought you told me this donkey responds to kind words!" "Yes," the previous owner says, "but you have to get his attention first!"

 

I see nothing wrong with a woman dressing attractively to get some attention. It's what she does with that attention that's important. Besides, we all enjoy looking and there's no harm in that!!

[Vigile]

We've all heard preachers say that christians will go and watch a ballgame in extreme heat or cold, through rain and snow, but aren't nearly as determined to come to church. They say that if it's to hot or cold or if they see a drop of rain or a snow flake it will knock many out of coming.

 

I think this is telling. It's like they know deep down that what they believe isn't true and thats why many are more prone to go and do a wordly thing than come to church. Perhaps because this worldy thing is tangible, you can see it, hear it, feel it and experience it. I think that they know they really haven't heard God or even felt anything sitting in a chuch service and though they will never admit it to anyone or to even themselves, it comes through in other areas, in their actions and, in this case, inactivity.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm not sure I agree. Most xians I know argue that church isn't necessary for salvation or their beliefs. What I do think betrays their lack of belief, however, is their professed belief in the hell doctrine and the care free way they go about their business not really thinking of what the professed belief means in regards to their family and friends who are not saved. These are the same people who went ballistic after 911. They want the government to chase the terrorists to the ends of the earth so that a bogeyman won't get their kids, but when it comes to hell, they think holding a bake sale for the church on Saturday afternoon is good insurance.

[Ouroboros]

I'm not sure I agree. Most xians I know argue that church isn't necessary for salvation or their beliefs. What I do think betrays their lack of belief, however, is their professed belief in the hell doctrine and the care free way they go about their business not really thinking of what the professed belief means in regards to their family and friends who are not saved. These are the same people who went ballistic after 911. They want the government to chase the terrorists to the ends of the earth so that a bogeyman won't get their kids, but when it comes to hell, they think holding a bake sale for the church on Saturday afternoon is good insurance.

That's right. They're bigots. Just look at FaithDefender on our site now. He talks about love one second and the next he admits he would kill people if the voices in his head told him to. These people are dangerous. They are evil. They lie, steal, cheat, and kill and call that moral and righteous. They proclaim to have the knowledge of some fantasy absolute morality while they are the ones first to breach it. It's sick. Seriously sick.

[Vigile]

2. Yezzir. Now this isn't to say that I haven't sinned since salvation to my own shame but I repented of that sin and stopped it.

 

Are you married or do you just suffer from a constant case of blue balls? You know that's not healthy?

[Dagan]

Not surprisingly, the street preacher has moved to another corner.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

2. Yezzir. Now this isn't to say that I haven't sinned since salvation to my own shame but I repented of that sin and stopped it.

 

Are you married or do you just suffer from a constant case of blue balls? You know that's not healthy?

 

Not married nor do I have blue balls, just full of the Holy Spirit.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

I'm not sure I agree. Most xians I know argue that church isn't necessary for salvation or their beliefs. What I do think betrays their lack of belief, however, is their professed belief in the hell doctrine and the care free way they go about their business not really thinking of what the professed belief means in regards to their family and friends who are not saved. These are the same people who went ballistic after 911. They want the government to chase the terrorists to the ends of the earth so that a bogeyman won't get their kids, but when it comes to hell, they think holding a bake sale for the church on Saturday afternoon is good insurance.

That's right. They're bigots. Just look at FaithDefender on our site now. He talks about love one second and the next he admits he would kill people if the voices in his head told him to. These people are dangerous. They are evil. They lie, steal, cheat, and kill and call that moral and righteous. They proclaim to have the knowledge of some fantasy absolute morality while they are the ones first to breach it. It's sick. Seriously sick.

 

1. So you say that were all bigots. Then in the next breath go on a railing diatribe generalizing ALL christians as liars, cheaters, killers and thieves. Holy Hypocrisy Batman!!!

 

2. I didn't say I would kill people if the voices in my head told me to do so. You should re-read the whole of what I said and not take what I said out of context.

 

3, It is sick good thing we don't do things like that.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

We've all heard preachers say that christians will go and watch a ballgame in extreme heat or cold, through rain and snow, but aren't nearly as determined to come to church. They say that if it's to hot or cold or if they see a drop of rain or a snow flake it will knock many out of coming.

 

I think this is telling. It's like they know deep down that what they believe isn't true and thats why many are more prone to go and do a wordly thing than come to church. Perhaps because this worldy thing is tangible, you can see it, hear it, feel it and experience it. I think that they know they really haven't heard God or even felt anything sitting in a chuch service and though they will never admit it to anyone or to even themselves, it comes through in other areas, in their actions and, in this case, inactivity.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm not sure I agree. Most xians I know argue that church isn't necessary for salvation or their beliefs. What I do think betrays their lack of belief, however, is their professed belief in the hell doctrine and the care free way they go about their business not really thinking of what the professed belief means in regards to their family and friends who are not saved. These are the same people who went ballistic after 911. They want the government to chase the terrorists to the ends of the earth so that a bogeyman won't get their kids, but when it comes to hell, they think holding a bake sale for the church on Saturday afternoon is good insurance.

 

Exactly this is why I street preach. I know people are going to hell and I want people to get saved. And you are also right about churchs having bake sales while sinners die daily not knowing Jesus. That is hypocritical of those people.

[Guest ephymeris]

2. And I never said I alone have the truth. But when you look at the "christian" lives of many professing chrisitans you don't see the power of God, you don't see holiness, you don't see zeal for good works, you don't see people having victory over sin. You see a bunch of hypocrites. I was talking to a friend (an atheist) who told me she was watching the Ray J show and there was a girl on there who was dressed like a skank and doing the slips in one scene and then in the next shes reading the bible. And that is the image most people have of christianity.

 

You seem very fixated on this women-dressed-as-whores thing. I assure you, what christian women wear while they pray or read the bible has never once been top of my mind when I think of christian hypocrisy. Hearing the vomitous, twisted christian concoctions of "love" and "truth" and "judgement" layered on top of nonsensical, double-think mythology, THAT'S what springs to my mind when I think of christian hypocrisy.

 

Thats not hypocrisy thats just not what you want to hear.

 

No, hypocrisy is quite different than listening to an opinion you don't agree with.

 

Main Entry: hy·poc·ri·sy

1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

 

 

As seen in christians opposing abortion but embracing the war and the death penalty, stating judge not lest ye be judged and then condemning everyone who does not agree with your world view, claiming to be not of this world while talking on their cell phones driving a convertible, claiming to love one another and causing dischord amongst a group of strangers. Also of note: christian pedophiles, tele-evangelists, and general christian leader crooks who live a cushy life off the tithes of their sheep.

[Ouroboros]

Not married nor do I have blue balls, just full of the Holy Spirit.

Okay. I'm not sure the purists believe those things should go in the same sentence...

 

 

1. So you say that were all bigots. Then in the next breath go on a railing diatribe generalizing ALL christians as liars, cheaters, killers and thieves. Holy Hypocrisy Batman!!!

Don't blame me. It's not my fault you're so screwed up.

 

And I forgot, only you can generalize atheists, but we can't generalize you Christians. Got it. It's a sin, isn't it? Only you can lie, but I have to live holy. Right.

 

2. I didn't say I would kill people if the voices in my head told me to do so. You should re-read the whole of what I said and not take what I said out of context.

If God tell you, you would kill. How would God tell you? Write with a fire in big letters on the wall or talk with a quiet voice in your head?

 

3, It is sick good thing we don't do things like that.

It is sick that you even consider that you could kill in the name of God.

[godlessgrrl]

It is sick that you even consider that you could kill in the name of God.

 

This is nothing. The other evening in the shoutbox he stated that it was okay for god to murder innocent children.

 

It's apparently okay to murder children so long as god does it because whatever god does is by definition good, plus he sends the children he murders to heaven. So that makes it okay.

 

I don't think that FD here is anyone who should be telling others which direction their moral compass should point.

[Shyone]

It is sick that you even consider that you could kill in the name of God.

 

This is nothing. The other evening in the shoutbox he stated that it was okay for god to murder innocent children.

 

It's apparently okay to murder children so long as god does it because whatever god does is by definition good, plus he sends the children he murders to heaven. So that makes it okay.

 

I don't think that FD here is anyone who should be telling others which direction their moral compass should point.

It's almost ironic that he justifies the murder of children by claiming they go to heaven.

 

That is precisely what every religious person has ever claimed when they kill their children on orders from God, but even without the orders, the children still go to heaven. So what is stopping Christians from killing their children (other than self-interest - preserving ones own soul, but what parent wouldn't sacrifice their immortal soul to send their children to eternal paradise?).

[Ouroboros]

So FaithDefender promotes religious sacrifice of fetuses? They're going to Heaven, so they'll be safe and cozy for eternity with God, so there's nothing wrong with it, or is it?

[godlessgrrl]

Hmm. Fetuses weren't mentioned, just children. It's an unknown at this point if FD makes a distinction between them.

[Ouroboros]

Hmm. Fetuses weren't mentioned, just children. It's an unknown at this point if FD makes a distinction between them.

Very true. Fetus was never mentioned, but does he make a distinction do you think? Would he protect the fetus but willingly kill the baby? I wonder.

[centauri]

...I know people are going to hell and I want people to get saved.

But your street preaching really revolves around your ego, even though you cloak it by claiming to be channeling "God".

It's based on what you claim to know and what you want.

Apparently you feel qualified to foist your knowledge about hell on others and want them to react in a particular way.

You're trying to load theological baggage onto people under the guise of helping them.

You can't validate "hell" nor can you validate your version of "God" as existing.

Nor can you verify that your version of salvation is correct or even needed.

Yet, you don't seem to have any problem wanting to load your baggage onto others.

That doesn't sound very helpful to me. It seems rather irresponsible and selfish.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

...I know people are going to hell and I want people to get saved.

But your street preaching really revolves around your ego, even though you cloak it by claiming to be channeling "God".

It's based on what you claim to know and what you want.

Apparently you feel qualified to foist your knowledge about hell on others and want them to react in a particular way.

You're trying to load theological baggage onto people under the guise of helping them.

You can't validate "hell" nor can you validate your version of "God" as existing.

Nor can you verify that your version of salvation is correct or even needed.

Yet, you don't seem to have any problem wanting to load your baggage onto others.

That doesn't sound very helpful to me. It seems rather irresponsible and selfish.

 

1. I'd love to know how you know so much about me without acutally knowing me. And I'm not channeling God I'm proclaiming His judgement.

 

2. No its based on what the bible says. I start each sentence with THE BIBLE SAYS or GOD'S WORD SAYS. Its not about me its about what the bible says

 

3. Yeah as Paul says -

2 Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Yeah I want a certian reaction. I want them to get saved or atleast to go home thinking about what they heard. Normally public speaking is meant to get a reaction or to get people to listen.

 

4. Or I am practicing my faith and spreading it to others. If I really believe people are going to hell without Jesus I have a obligation to warn them.

 

 

5. Sure I can your conscience tells you judgement is real, that God is real that you are a sinner. You know this and if you have closed that part of you off the bible says you are concealing the truth in unrighteousness.

 

6. Yeah well normally when you impose your own bias and slant on the beliefs of others and strawman their position it will always sound bad.

[centauri]

...I know people are going to hell and I want people to get saved.

But your street preaching really revolves around your ego, even though you cloak it by claiming to be channeling "God".

It's based on what you claim to know and what you want.

Apparently you feel qualified to foist your knowledge about hell on others and want them to react in a particular way.

You're trying to load theological baggage onto people under the guise of helping them.

You can't validate "hell" nor can you validate your version of "God" as existing.

Nor can you verify that your version of salvation is correct or even needed.

Yet, you don't seem to have any problem wanting to load your baggage onto others.

That doesn't sound very helpful to me. It seems rather irresponsible and selfish.

 

1. I'd love to know how you know so much about me without acutally knowing me. And I'm not channeling God I'm proclaiming His judgement.

I’m going by what you wrote…that your knowledge and desires are motivation for your street preaching.

Do you have the Holy Spirit guiding you?

If so, aren’t you tapping directly into God?

 

2. No its based on what the bible says. I start each sentence with THE BIBLE SAYS or GOD'S WORD SAYS. Its not about me its about what the bible says

It’s what selected parts of the Bible say, as filtered through your perceptions and desires.

It is about you because it’s your personal interpretation of what it means.

 

3. Yeah as Paul says -

2 Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Yeah I want a certian reaction. I want them to get saved or atleast to go home thinking about what they heard. Normally public speaking is meant to get a reaction or to get people to listen.

That’s what I wrote...your wants and desires drive the preaching.

What Paul says isn’t of much value if the Bible God actually meant what he was supposed to have declared in the Hebrew scriptures.

If Paul were really serious about the terror of the Lord he wouldn’t have contradicted the God of the Bible.

 

4. Or I am practicing my faith and spreading it to others. If I really believe people are going to hell without Jesus I have a obligation to warn them.

The faith justification can be used by anyone to spread anything as being true without ever having to validate it.

Without validation, it can also be described as fear-mongering.

 

5. Sure I can your conscience tells you judgement is real, that God is real that you are a sinner. You know this and if you have closed that part of you off the bible says you are concealing the truth in unrighteousness.

What God is real?

What is judgment and what are the parameters for determining sin?

My conscience tells me that a person shouldn’t buy a piece of fruit without first determining if it’s artificial.

You haven’t done anything to establish your theological whims as being truthful, valid, or binding on anyone.

So far, you’ve simply asserted.

 

6. Yeah well normally when you impose your own bias and slant on the beliefs of others and strawman their position it will always sound bad.

What bias and slant would that be?

Why is asking for validation of your theological whims an imposition?

If an advertisement claims that I need to buy a tonic because I’ll die without drinking it, why should that advertisement be exempt from scrutiny?

What strawman did I create?

You stated that you street preach because you know people are going to hell and want them to be saved.

However, you’ve done absolutely nothing to establish that the fear and promises that you sell on the street are valid and binding on those that you attempt to “warn”.

Quoting scripture isn’t validation because it attempts to prove something by relying solely on itself for authority.

[Guest FaithDefender619]

So FaithDefender promotes religious sacrifice of fetuses? They're going to Heaven, so they'll be safe and cozy for eternity with God, so there's nothing wrong with it, or is it?

 

Yep that's exactly what I said.

[Ouroboros]

Yep that's exactly what I said.

So that makes you one out of few Christians who promotes abortion for the sake of religion. Interesting.