Why Do You Allow Christians On The Site To Post?

[Vixentrox]

Maybe because we are not frightened little cowards that swing a ban hammer when someone disagrees with us? Many a Christian forum will do just that if you don't parrot the faith like a good little sheep.

[Franko47]

Maybe because we are not frightened little cowards that swing a ban hammer when someone disagrees with us? Many a Christian forum will do just that if you don't parrot the faith like a good little sheep.

 

 

I'm afraid there's some truth to that. We're not afraid of sound, rational discussion or argument here. We have enough members here who can handle the most ingenious arguments or discussions with Christians or theists. Bring it on. We're not afraid of any of it.

 

Unfortunately, most of the Christian sites I've looked over are. You can practically smell the fear and hostility if you want to make any discussion that would amount to doubts, liberal interpretations, let alone atheism. They're cloistered and controlling. No surprise there.

[Neon Genesis]

I personally enjoy discussing the bible with others and it would be boring if all we did was just rant about how the bible sucks with each other. It's nice to have a challenge every once and awhile, plus we occasionally get Christians who aren't here just to evangelize and may even contribute original thoughts to the discussions like Open Minded and Sojourner (what happened to them by the way? They showed back up for a little while and then disappeared again). I'm also interested in engaging in interfaith dialog with Christians who are equally interested in encouraging dialog between believers and non-believers and working together on common ground, though too many times we only seem to get evangelists. Besides, who doesn't love reading AM's posts when he responds to a Christian?

[Vigile]

I agree with Hans! This is an excellent question Kathlene!

 

I think there are many answers.

 

1. Some of us want to beat on you.

2. Some of us want to try and deconvert you.

3. Some of us appreciate having you here as contrast.

4. ....

 

5. Some of us think our own position is weaker if we have to protect it from all challenges.

[qadeshet]

If we ban all Christians, how are we going to educate them?

[Objet_trouve24]

The lion's den is designed to allow Christians to express themselves, raise issues and dialog with ex-christians.

 

Personally, I don't mind Christians posting in most places except for maybe the testimonies section and Ex-Christian life.

Why would you allow christians to express themselves though? Isnt that what the site is for, to get away from christians?

Why do you even want to have dialog with christians? Doesnt it just aggravate and pour salt into the wounds?

 

 

I live in a society with a lot of christians, it's unrealistic to try and avoid them completely. I won't kid myself into thinking America isn't largely christian. Part of de-conversion is learning to live in the same world with them. This site is smart to encourage it.

 

I enjoy the chance to debate and discuss with christians. It's probably the last thing most christians would want to hear, but it actually re-affirms my disbelief to hear their arguments.

 

Some christians who come in here might be de-converting. Some might be very scared, and not very honest about de-converting. This needs to be a safe place for them too.

 

I think it might also have to do with not wanting to feel like hypocrites. Christianity likes to stamp out dissent and quiet skepticism wherever they can. I don't think we want to feel like that. Regulate it to the best forum (testimonies and ex-christian life need to be places of rest, where ex-christians feel safe to talk about personal subjects), but don't shut them up completely.

[Brakeman]

Personally I like to show them that we are not what they say we are. We don't eat babies and we don't wave our fists at a weeping god. I like to show them that we have nothing to hide and don't have any controlling dogma, just self honesty.

 

I believe all christians are overt liars. Many here will condemn that statement as too harsh, but I stand by it with my 46 years of constant christian contact. I've never met one that will truly answer all the questions I'd ask. They all sidestep, ignoring my posts.

 

I can't confront the christian dogma in my personal life, as it would hurt my aging parents, hurt me professionally, and perhaps lead to ostracism of my children in this rabidly christian community. SO having christians to confront here gives me the chance to lash back at the craziness without the personal damage.

[Kuroikaze]

It was wrong for you guys when you were in it, but how can you claim it is wrong for me?

 

Because truth is not a matter of personal opinion. I did not leave Christianity because it was not "working" for me, but because it was demonstratively false by any reasonable standard of evidence.

 

To me, saying this is like saying, "sure YOU might fall to your death if you jump over that cliff, but I don't believe in gravity, so I think I'll be OK."

 

If your beliefs do not match reality reality is not going to bend to you, or even meet you half way.

 

Picking a religion is not like picking your favorite ice cream flavor.

 

Ect.... I think I have made my point.

[hereticzero]

Hey all,

 

Im just curious to know why this site allows christians in here to post, and what it is that you are hoping to gain from them?

 

Do you like christians in here? If so, why?

If not, why?

I do not care if xtians post here. They know who we are. If they post here, they either want information or to pick a fight and I can give either.

[par4dcourse]

Hey all,

 

Im just curious to know why this site allows christians in here to post, and what it is that you are hoping to gain from them?

 

Do you like christians in here? If so, why?

If not, why?

I do not care if xtians post here. They know who we are. If they post here, they either want information or to pick a fight and I can give either.

 

I'm with HZ. Besides, they're like hamsters: fun to play with, cheap to keep around, and easily replaced if need be.

[Objet_trouve24]

It was wrong for you guys when you were in it, but how can you claim it is wrong for me?

 

I believe you can believe whatever you want, so long as it doesn't affect people for the negative (including the believer, although this concerns me a little less, your choice is your choice). I've only seen maybe two examples of christianity that so far haven't hurt others, and both believed that it's wrong/unnecessary to witness, believed the bible was more symbolic, and tampered with by fallible men, and only believed a very small handful of people actually go to hell, only murderers and child molesters, and other people who have commit horrible acts.

 

One of them goes to church regularly, but rarely gets very involved. The other does not attend church at all. Both were pro-gay marriage and took a moderate abortion stance. Both study philosophy and believe in a grandfather clock creation story where god uses evolution. They place scientific knowledge above beliefs that they simply want to believe. They don't mind changing beliefs if science proves them wrong.

 

If you can find a way to be a christian without hurting people, great. I haven't seen it much myself. In my life, I've known many christians. Most of them have tried to turn me into a project, or sacrificed our relationship because they don't want to be "unequally yoked".

 

If someone slaps me in the face, I have every right to tell him to cut it out. If someone smacks their child, I have a responsibility to stop it. If a christian tells me I deserve hell and shouldn't be myself, I will tell them their beliefs are harmful to my psyche (emotional abuse) and my reputation (slander). I will accuse them of fueling Westboro Baptist church. Here, I will try to help them understand why they shouldn't do that. IRL, I'll call the police. It's harassment and it's wrong. It violates my right to leave if I don't like what I hear. If they don't seem to be hurting me or anyone else, I'll leave them alone.

 

I expect the same from them. If they find a way that my religion is harmful to them, they should talk to me about it. Hasn't happened in all the years I've said that. One guy tried, but he made the mistake of thinking all asatrus are white supremacists. Didn't work out in his favor.

 

Does that help? My brain is scattered today.

[BlueGiant]

It also pays to keep in mind that not everyone comes here as an Ex-christian. Some are sorting out doubts about their faith, some want to see how the other side thinks.

[NotBlinded]

Hey all,

 

Im just curious to know why this site allows christians in here to post, and what it is that you are hoping to gain from them?

 

Do you like christians in here? If so, why?

If not, why?

I tell you, I have never in my life, including college, found so much to learn from anywhere else. It is Christians that usually motivate me to study some physics, science, religion, mythology, etc. Really, I can't thank them enough for coming here and arguing with us.

 

We all need a scratching post.

[ShackledNoMore]

I think it can be therapeutic for some ex-c's to debate with the xians here.

[Antlerman]

Everyone has many good and valid points I would echo. I personally enjoy the foil, the contrast in order to be able to raise and explore points that not only help me, but can help others. To respond to a challenge or a point of view I feel I need to bounce ideas off of is beneficial to me personally.

 

From my first day here on this site many years ago, before this version of the forum which the current 'join date' marks, the majority of my participation has been in the debate forums. Back then, in the first forums, it was called "Debating with Christians". It's where I cut my teeth here.

 

Over the years having those of our culture to challenge who reflect a part of what was my own personal past, not only in a choice of religious devotion but of inherited cultural norms accepted without question as the definition of what is truth, has afforded me the means to challenge myself. Not only is it moving beyond where I was, but it is also about not settling into accepting some new norm of truth, some new truth to call home, but to continue that movement to something core inside me.

 

I've found without challenge, then it becomes a religion. And in a religion, it can easily become about conformity. And conformity, is not about reaching beyond to the next stage of our growth, it's about fitting in horizontally. And so I challenge those who claim Truth, 'this far and no further'. Christianity, organized religion, ideological identity through membership too often is the end in itself, and diminishes our spirit.

 

I also find as I exercise myself in my ability to understand others points of view, it allows me to see beyond any ideas that I might find myself getting married to. I enjoy the contrast, I welcome the debate for the purpose of provoking each other to growth. Not in any way about validating any egos about who's right, who's wrong, who's delusional, who's got the *real* reality. Those are flip-sides of the same coin and the trading of one mess of stew for another. I believe there is a place that can be found where these all dissolve into unimportance.

 

It's all a struggle of moving beyond the past, not just of ourselves as individuals, but to where we are going as a society and a species. But without dialog, without discussion, without challenge, that halts.

 

5. Some of us think our own position is weaker if we have to protect it from all challenges.

Amen, and Amen!

[chefranden]

Hey all,

 

Im just curious to know why this site allows christians in here to post, and what it is that you are hoping to gain from them?

 

Do you like christians in here? If so, why?

If not, why?

 

Christians are one of the main attractions for me. You can't argue with them on Christian sites without getting banned. It used to be more fun in the olden days when more of you were around.

[chefranden]

...but it too gets pulled down and I am told I am wrong, when these are my personal experiences. It was wrong for you guys when you were in it, but how can you claim it is wrong for me? ...but nevertheless,

 

I don't deny "personal experiences". I had a few myself. I only deny that "personal experiences" are about anything real in the actual universe outside of one's "personal limpic system" activity.

 

You understand your "personal experiences" are about God and about ChristianGod in particular. But your personal experiences are meaningless to me, just like the personal experiences that prove Allah to other believers are meaningless to you. I'm sure you had a warm fuzzy, but so?

 

Personal experiences, being personal, are not good arguments for God when speaking to others who value logical and scientific evidence. Therefore I wouldn't expect "warm fuzzies" to be taken as evidence. "God can't be a mean asshole in spite of what the bible says, because I feel so nice when I think about him," is not an argument for god is love.

[Kathlene]

...but it too gets pulled down and I am told I am wrong, when these are my personal experiences. It was wrong for you guys when you were in it, but how can you claim it is wrong for me? ...but nevertheless,

 

I don't deny "personal experiences". I had a few myself. I only deny that "personal experiences" are about anything real in the actual universe outside of one's "personal limpic system" activity.

 

You understand your "personal experiences" are about God and about ChristianGod in particular. But your personal experiences are meaningless to me, just like the personal experiences that prove Allah to other believers are meaningless to you. I'm sure you had a warm fuzzy, but so?

 

Personal experiences, being personal, are not good arguments for God when speaking to others who value logical and scientific evidence. Therefore I wouldn't expect "warm fuzzies" to be taken as evidence. "God can't be a mean asshole in spite of what the bible says, because I feel so nice when I think about him," is not an argument for god is love.

Its interesting thinking about personal experiences, and I have one that I would love to hear anyone's opinion of it.

 

Years ago God gave me a scripture from Isaih I think it was, mentioning me being a repairer of broken walls for my family. This is indeed something I am in the midst of doing at the moment.

Now I have never told anyone about this at all. I have just kept it between God and I.

So I am at a prayer meeting today, and we are talking about our lives, and they know what I am going through personally at the moment.

After these women prayed for me, one lady asks me if I had read Nehemiah. I said yes. She then says I believe God showed me that you are a repairer of broken walls in your family. Remember I have never told anyone about this scripture that God showed me years ago...

Any opinions?

[Phanta]

...but it too gets pulled down and I am told I am wrong, when these are my personal experiences. It was wrong for you guys when you were in it, but how can you claim it is wrong for me? ...but nevertheless,

 

I don't deny "personal experiences". I had a few myself. I only deny that "personal experiences" are about anything real in the actual universe outside of one's "personal limpic system" activity.

 

You understand your "personal experiences" are about God and about ChristianGod in particular. But your personal experiences are meaningless to me, just like the personal experiences that prove Allah to other believers are meaningless to you. I'm sure you had a warm fuzzy, but so?

 

Personal experiences, being personal, are not good arguments for God when speaking to others who value logical and scientific evidence. Therefore I wouldn't expect "warm fuzzies" to be taken as evidence. "God can't be a mean asshole in spite of what the bible says, because I feel so nice when I think about him," is not an argument for god is love.

Its interesting thinking about personal experiences, and I have one that I would love to hear anyone's opinion of it.

 

Years ago God gave me a scripture from Isaih I think it was, mentioning me being a repairer of broken walls for my family. This is indeed something I am in the midst of doing at the moment.

Now I have never told anyone about this at all. I have just kept it between God and I.

So I am at a prayer meeting today, and we are talking about our lives, and they know what I am going through personally at the moment.

After these women prayed for me, one lady asks me if I had read Nehemiah. I said yes. She then says I believe God showed me that you are a repairer of broken walls in your family. Remember I have never told anyone about this scripture that God showed me years ago...

Any opinions?

 

Your personality glows with healing and love and reconciliation.

 

Did she know your family is broken?

 

Did she know you?

 

Did she know Bible phrases well?

 

Most of the men I have been deeply involved with at one point call me, and then repeatedly call me, "precious". "You are precious," they say. They say it over and over and over. I never told them about previous men who have said that. There is something seems to lead unconnected men to use that particular phrase in love to me over and over and over.

 

For my part, I want deeply to be precious. I want to be cherished and loved as precious. So I respond overtly and unconsciously to the words. And so I get to hear them over and over and over again from men who never hear them from my mouth or the mouth of any other man.

 

My thoughts?

 

She connected your personality type with a verse. God has lead you to many, many verses over the years. You are honing in on one match. So many are not matches and you have not noticed them. "This is who you are Kathlene". In those cases, you just reject them without thought. This match feels good and speaks to your strength as a person. You magnify it, you live it, you love it!

 

Phanta

[Ouroboros]

Its interesting thinking about personal experiences, and I have one that I would love to hear anyone's opinion of it.

 

Years ago God gave me a scripture from Isaih I think it was, mentioning me being a repairer of broken walls for my family. This is indeed something I am in the midst of doing at the moment.

Now I have never told anyone about this at all. I have just kept it between God and I.

So I am at a prayer meeting today, and we are talking about our lives, and they know what I am going through personally at the moment.

After these women prayed for me, one lady asks me if I had read Nehemiah. I said yes. She then says I believe God showed me that you are a repairer of broken walls in your family. Remember I have never told anyone about this scripture that God showed me years ago...

Any opinions?

Ah! I know exactly what you're talking about.

 

When I was a teenager, I dreamt about becoming a preacher or a missionary, a facilitator and bringer of the absolute truth. Perhaps it was a vision by God?

 

And look where I am today. It came true! I'm a moderator for a non-Christian website.

[buffettphan]

 

Your personality glows with healing and love and reconciliation.

Did she know your family is broken?

 

Did she know you?

 

Did she know Bible phrases well?

 

Most of the men I have been deeply involved with at one point call me, and then repeatedly call me, "precious". "You are precious," they say. They say it over and over and over. I never told them about previous men who have said that. There is something seems to lead unconnected men to use that particular phrase in love to me over and over and over.

 

For my part, I want deeply to be precious. I want to be cherished and loved as precious. So I respond overtly and unconsciously to the words. And so I get to hear them over and over and over again from men who never hear them from my mouth or the mouth of any other man.

 

My thoughts?

 

She connected your personality type with a verse. God has lead you to many, many verses over the years. You are honing in on one match. So many are not matches and you have not noticed them. "This is who you are Kathlene". In those cases, you just reject them without thought. This match feels good and speaks to your strength as a person. You magnify it, you live it, you love it!

 

Phanta

 

Absolutely! The bible verses are like horoscopes -- written so generically that they can "fit" anyone. You remember this particular verse because it connects with you. I doubt you feel the same way about the verses which advocate stoning disobedient children.

[Kuroikaze]

Its interesting thinking about personal experiences, and I have one that I would love to hear anyone's opinion of it.

 

Years ago God gave me a scripture from Isaih I think it was, mentioning me being a repairer of broken walls for my family. This is indeed something I am in the midst of doing at the moment.

Now I have never told anyone about this at all. I have just kept it between God and I.

So I am at a prayer meeting today, and we are talking about our lives, and they know what I am going through personally at the moment.

After these women prayed for me, one lady asks me if I had read Nehemiah. I said yes. She then says I believe God showed me that you are a repairer of broken walls in your family. Remember I have never told anyone about this scripture that God showed me years ago...

Any opinions?

 

And how many other people have you talked to in the intervening years who never mentioned this?

 

I would conclude that you have a bit of Confirmation bias going on here.

[florduh]

Simply put, one may adopt a premise and then interpret random events in a way as to support the preconception. That is the basis for validation of a faith.

[Objet_trouve24]

Its interesting thinking about personal experiences, and I have one that I would love to hear anyone's opinion of it.

 

Years ago God gave me a scripture from Isaih I think it was, mentioning me being a repairer of broken walls for my family. This is indeed something I am in the midst of doing at the moment.

Now I have never told anyone about this at all. I have just kept it between God and I.

So I am at a prayer meeting today, and we are talking about our lives, and they know what I am going through personally at the moment.

After these women prayed for me, one lady asks me if I had read Nehemiah. I said yes. She then says I believe God showed me that you are a repairer of broken walls in your family. Remember I have never told anyone about this scripture that God showed me years ago...

Any opinions?

 

Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

 

(Repairer of broken walls in other translations)

 

I don't know how you'll receive this, and I really hope you don't take it as me trying to be mean, because regardless of whether you told your friend before, or already knew the verse, or were in group study over the verse or whatever, if it helps you, it helps you, and I wouldn't want to take that away.

 

However, personally, I don't think you should revere it as a miracle. A wonderful inspiration, sure. But I don't think it's some kind of miraculous thing that proves god's existence or anything. I don't think it SHOULD be used to prove god exists, or even that he likes you. I think it should be taken as a sign that you should work on repairing walls.

 

The big reason that I don't think it should be used to try to prove anything is because almost every woman I know who has any kind of family conflict, has been told the same. Including me. When I left christianity I was even told this, even though I was in a position where I couldn't do anything. I have a suspicion that it might be the result of this ministry making the term popular: http://repairerofthebreachministry.com/

 

My point is that while this was a wonderful thing that was said to you, while it helps you find strength and courage, PLEASE don't defile this gift by claiming it as proof of god's existence or love. It shouldn't even matter that you never told your friend about it, it should be taken as confirmation of what you should do. I don't even care if you believe god is telling you to do it, it shouldn't be used in a way it was not intended.

 

I hope you don't take that as me being mean. I've had these kinds of things too. While I was recording my album (have I ever mentioned on here that I'm a musician? myspace.com/lofnlovesyou)I had a dream where the Norse god of music was handing me a guitar and telling me to be brave and do what I needed to do. I was having trouble recording the last track on my album, a song about how badly I was in love with my ex. Another time, I was going through a scary time where these guys kept breaking into my house, and my friend drew a symbol on my arm. She didn't even know what runes are, but it was the rune for "protection".

 

But I've also done this with music! My friend gave me a cd, and told me to listen to a certain track. He said it reminded him of me. The song turned out to be "Good Ship Lifestyle" by Chumbawamba. This happened way before I came out of the closet. While it was encouraging and inspirational, and spooky timing, this does not conclude that Chumbawamba is god.

 

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying with the story, I just wish someone had said that to me when I was christian.

[Kathlene]

Thanks guys for all your opinions. They are pretty much what I expected. I can actually see where you are all coming from too. But, you guys know me , I will still think what I think, and do what I do. Meh!