Why Do You Allow Christians On The Site To Post?

[Kathlene]

 

.. I did take a break from posting for a while, and sometimes I will enter into a debate or discussion, but not always. I am learning to choose my battles wisely in here, because, unfortunately thats what they become battles. Not a two way street of learning from each other. So forgive me Brakeman, I will try in future to respond more to your posts, and maybe more of others in here.

 

Well K, I don't wish to "Battle" you, nor really to much debate you. I'm more interested in what someone from your point of view would answer to questions that I have asked myself over time and, more importantly, questions that I may dare in the future to ask my wife.

 

So to kind of start out on the right foot, may I ask about how much you know about the construction and history of the bible first? Generally of course.

 

Are you aware of the collection and canonization of the scriptures process and the various catholic councils of the 3 though 9th centuries?

 

Are you familiar with the inquisitions and why they were perpetrated?

 

Have you ever studied the histories of religion in America?

 

I ask these general knowledge questions to gauge the differences from you and my wife. She Doesn't know much of this, and doesn't really want to learn. Yet occasionally I do drag her feet to the fire.

 

Thanks for your time and effort. I promise to be nice, well as nice as I can be..I guess.

 

 

OOps. perhaps we should start another thread somewhere, I didn't mean to hijack yours... Will you make one?

Your wife and I sound very similar brakeman. Im sorry. My answer to pretty much all those questions would be No. Not a lot of difference between your wife and I. Here's my life. Short, sweet and simple. I read the Bible, I pray to God, I worship God, I have on occasion gone through some very crappy stuff in my life, and the reason I wont let go of God despite whatever anyone may through in my face, is because I feel peace with god. My faith fulfills me and makes me who I am to this day. It is my personal experience. I find a lot of stability and love in knowing God and giving him my life.

[Brakeman]

.. I read the Bible, I pray to God, I worship God, I have on occasion gone through some very crappy stuff in my life, and the reason I wont let go of God despite whatever anyone may through in my face, is because I feel peace with god. My faith fulfills me and makes me who I am to this day. It is my personal experience. I find a lot of stability and love in knowing God and giving him my life.

 

Are you married? Does your husband share your beliefs?

 

What part of the bible in particular give you the most support?

 

Are you afraid of god?

 

Suppose, just for a second, that the copy of the bible that you had was incomplete, and there were say, 5 more books that added to christian guidance, but you had never read them, through no fault of your own of course. Then you heard about them, from a good but not perfect source. What would you do? Would you get a copy of the missing books and read them or would you not, being fearful of what they may say. How would you judge them. Would you depend on your own judgment or would you defer to others?

[florduh]

Those who are afraid to dig too deeply into their religion are living dishonestly. It's a pity, really. How does one honestly represent a religion they haven't even understood?

[Mriana]

 

.. I did take a break from posting for a while, and sometimes I will enter into a debate or discussion, but not always. I am learning to choose my battles wisely in here, because, unfortunately thats what they become battles. Not a two way street of learning from each other. So forgive me Brakeman, I will try in future to respond more to your posts, and maybe more of others in here.

 

Well K, I don't wish to "Battle" you, nor really to much debate you. I'm more interested in what someone from your point of view would answer to questions that I have asked myself over time and, more importantly, questions that I may dare in the future to ask my wife.

 

So to kind of start out on the right foot, may I ask about how much you know about the construction and history of the bible first? Generally of course.

 

Are you aware of the collection and canonization of the scriptures process and the various catholic councils of the 3 though 9th centuries?

 

Are you familiar with the inquisitions and why they were perpetrated?

 

Have you ever studied the histories of religion in America?

 

I ask these general knowledge questions to gauge the differences from you and my wife. She Doesn't know much of this, and doesn't really want to learn. Yet occasionally I do drag her feet to the fire.

 

Thanks for your time and effort. I promise to be nice, well as nice as I can be..I guess.

 

 

OOps. perhaps we should start another thread somewhere, I didn't mean to hijack yours... Will you make one?

Your wife and I sound very similar brakeman. Im sorry. My answer to pretty much all those questions would be No. Not a lot of difference between your wife and I. Here's my life. Short, sweet and simple. I read the Bible, I pray to God, I worship God, I have on occasion gone through some very crappy stuff in my life, and the reason I wont let go of God despite whatever anyone may through in my face, is because I feel peace with god. My faith fulfills me and makes me who I am to this day. It is my personal experience. I find a lot of stability and love in knowing God and giving him my life.

 

You haven't studied anything about your own religion? Why am I not surprised. One more question, in reference to your god concept- what is it? Can you attempt to put it into words, besides giving you peace and fulfillment? Can you hug it? Is it actually tangible?

[Kathlene]

.. I read the Bible, I pray to God, I worship God, I have on occasion gone through some very crappy stuff in my life, and the reason I wont let go of God despite whatever anyone may through in my face, is because I feel peace with god. My faith fulfills me and makes me who I am to this day. It is my personal experience. I find a lot of stability and love in knowing God and giving him my life.

 

Are you married? Does your husband share your beliefs?

 

What part of the bible in particular give you the most support?

 

Are you afraid of god?

 

Suppose, just for a second, that the copy of the bible that you had was incomplete, and there were say, 5 more books that added to christian guidance, but you had never read them, through no fault of your own of course. Then you heard about them, from a good but not perfect source. What would you do? Would you get a copy of the missing books and read them or would you not, being fearful of what they may say. How would you judge them. Would you depend on your own judgment or would you defer to others?

 

 

Brakeman, I am a single woman raising a son on my own for the past nearly 15yrs now. Phew! I read all the parts of the Bible, and I love every bit of it. My favourite parts at this stage are psalms, Isaiah, all New Testament, and loads more..

 

No, I have never been afraid of God ever. I still to this day do not understand why anyone would be. I love God with all I am. When I walked away from God, I was never afraid. I think I was more aware of what my rebelliousness was doing to me and the consequences I was facing from it, that I made.

 

I guess in your hypothetical situation, I would try and get the extra books. But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

 

Does that satisfy?

[Kathlene]

 

.. I did take a break from posting for a while, and sometimes I will enter into a debate or discussion, but not always. I am learning to choose my battles wisely in here, because, unfortunately thats what they become battles. Not a two way street of learning from each other. So forgive me Brakeman, I will try in future to respond more to your posts, and maybe more of others in here.

 

Well K, I don't wish to "Battle" you, nor really to much debate you. I'm more interested in what someone from your point of view would answer to questions that I have asked myself over time and, more importantly, questions that I may dare in the future to ask my wife.

 

So to kind of start out on the right foot, may I ask about how much you know about the construction and history of the bible first? Generally of course.

 

Are you aware of the collection and canonization of the scriptures process and the various catholic councils of the 3 though 9th centuries?

 

Are you familiar with the inquisitions and why they were perpetrated?

 

Have you ever studied the histories of religion in America?

 

I ask these general knowledge questions to gauge the differences from you and my wife. She Doesn't know much of this, and doesn't really want to learn. Yet occasionally I do drag her feet to the fire.

 

Thanks for your time and effort. I promise to be nice, well as nice as I can be..I guess.

 

 

OOps. perhaps we should start another thread somewhere, I didn't mean to hijack yours... Will you make one?

Your wife and I sound very similar brakeman. Im sorry. My answer to pretty much all those questions would be No. Not a lot of difference between your wife and I. Here's my life. Short, sweet and simple. I read the Bible, I pray to God, I worship God, I have on occasion gone through some very crappy stuff in my life, and the reason I wont let go of God despite whatever anyone may through in my face, is because I feel peace with god. My faith fulfills me and makes me who I am to this day. It is my personal experience. I find a lot of stability and love in knowing God and giving him my life.

 

You haven't studied anything about your own religion? Why am I not surprised. One more question, in reference to your god concept- what is it? Can you attempt to put it into words, besides giving you peace and fulfillment? Can you hug it? Is it actually tangible?

 

 

Actually about 10yrs ago I went to Bible college, but thats not going to carry any weight in here now is it?

Here's a scenario for you where I found God to be tangible for me. Due to horrific circumstances, my son had to go live with my parents for a while due to his violence. I had to make that decision. When we told him, my heart was tearing in two, I couldnt look at him or I would crack in two. I literally felt like my heart was bleeding out inside of me. The pain was unbearable. This was my child who I have raised alone since he was 18mnts old. I dont want to get into the hows and whys of where we got to at that stage. While my parents packed his bags, I was in my room curled up crying my eyes out. In the midst of that unbelievable raw pain, I felt God's presence so strongly and his peace seemed to envelope me, to say it would be ok, I would get through this. As it was we did survive it in a beautiful way, so that to this day we have an even deeper relationship together, and still alone. Did I make up that feeling of being carried? who is to say. I dont think so. For me, that was God coming in at my most desperate state and I got a spiritual hug, so to speak in your terms.

[Shyone]

I guess in your hypothetical situation, I would try and get the extra books. But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

 

Does that satisfy?

Wow, you aren't willing to actually think on your own?

 

Did you have a stroke?

[florduh]

But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

That might be the most depressing post I've seen here.

[Mriana]

Actually about 10yrs ago I went to Bible college, but thats not going to carry any weight in here now is it?

Here's a scenario for you where I found God to be tangible for me. Due to horrific circumstances, my son had to go live with my parents for a while due to his violence. I had to make that decision. When we told him, my heart was tearing in two, I couldnt look at him or I would crack in two. I literally felt like my heart was bleeding out inside of me. The pain was unbearable. This was my child who I have raised alone since he was 18mnts old. I dont want to get into the hows and whys of where we got to at that stage. While my parents packed his bags, I was in my room curled up crying my eyes out. In the midst of that unbelievable raw pain, I felt God's presence so strongly and his peace seemed to envelope me, to say it would be ok, I would get through this. As it was we did survive it in a beautiful way, so that to this day we have an even deeper relationship together, and still alone. Did I make up that feeling of being carried? who is to say. I dont think so. For me, that was God coming in at my most desperate state and I got a spiritual hug, so to speak in your terms.

 

Dear, I've been through a similar experience with my younger son and had just as much pain, but there was no other presence, so I don't call that tangible. That is more or less neurological and we attribute that experience to what we want. You call it God. I call it a neurological reaction to overwhelming emotional pain. The brain is a marvelous thing, in which it can give us what we need chemically. It's all psychological. I don't mean you made it up, I mean it is psychological.

[Vixentrox]

What I do is hear the viewpoints in here that say God is horrible, a liar, an ogre yada yada

Fingers still inserted firmly in ears I see.

You would think she'd be able to prove otherwise according to her holy book. But she can't.

[Vixentrox]

But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

That might be the most depressing post I've seen here.

Guess she can't trust the holy spirit to guide her. Her imaginary boyfriend and holy book doesn't offer enough guidance so she has to rely on on some preacher for the Truth.

[Kathlene]

Interesting how when we do try to defend our faith. I sometimes see no point to it. There are bridges of thought in here, and never the twain shall meet....

 

Anyhoo, it is nice that we are allowed in here, and I respect that decision. I just didnt want to be posting in here and offending people. But like you have all said, you don't have to read it if you dont want to.

 

Kathlene, If you truly believed and were a True Christian TM, then it would be wrong of you not to answer our sincere questions. Yet you haven't answered many of mine in other threads over the past few months.

 

Why?

 

I even baited you in this thread, by calling all christians I knew "overt liars" yet you still didn't respond.

 

Why?

 

If you are afraid I would be rude or vulgar or something, I can promise I wouldn't be.

In previous threads you said that you were too upset or weak to answer questions. If you had the power of the holy spirit within you, how could that ever be the case?

My apologies Brakeman for not answering your posts. I can see that you really actually want to hear answers. I have learnt in here that whatever I post, and I mean whatever, will be dissected and misconstrued, taken apart, rehashed and then smashed to pieces and regurgitated into something I never meant in the first place. So I have been wary and a little hesitant. Which is why I started this thread. I wanted to get some answers from members in here to see what the going vibe is with having me in here and posting. Apparently it is for comic relief. I did take a break from posting for a while, and sometimes I will enter into a debate or discussion, but not always. I am learning to choose my battles wisely in here, because, unfortunately thats what they become battles. Not a two way street of learning from each other. So forgive me Brakeman, I will try in future to respond more to your posts, and maybe more of others in here.

This quote reflects exactly what is going on in this thread. I say something, people pull it apart and shred it, then reassemble it into something I never intended for in the beginning.

 

It must give you all such a sense of smug satisfaction to pull someone apart....sigh. Note to self..it is the lions den..

[Mriana]

But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

That might be the most depressing post I've seen here.

Guess she can't trust the holy spirit to guide her. Her imaginary boyfriend and holy book doesn't offer enough guidance so she has to rely on on some preacher for the Truth.

 

Well, I wouldn't knock an imaginary boyfriend too much. I have several- there is Sully from Dr. Quinn, Will Riker, Geordi Laforge, Chakotay, Sisko, and even Scotty and Sulu when I was younger before TNG came out and then there is the One who has had more resurrections than Jesus Christ- Capt. James T. Kirk. With Capt. Kirk in the mix, why <i>Mourn for Adonis</i>? She's really missing out by going with a god/man like Jesus, when Kirk is a far better lover and keeps coming back again. Oh yes, I know he died in Generations, but give me sometime... I'll find a way to resurrect him myself... in a fanfic. The god Kirk speaks, "Sounds like fun!"

[Franko47]

But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

That might be the most depressing post I've seen here.

Guess she can't trust the holy spirit to guide her. Her imaginary boyfriend and holy book doesn't offer enough guidance so she has to rely on on some preacher for the Truth.

 

Well, I wouldn't knock an imaginary boyfriend too much. I have several- there is Sully from Dr. Quinn, Will Riker, Geordi Laforge, Chakotay, Sisko, and even Scotty and Sulu when I was younger before TNG came out and then there is the One who has had more resurrections than Jesus Christ- Capt. James T. Kirk. With Capt. Kirk in the mix, why <i>Mourn for Adonis</i>? She's really missing out by going with a god/man like Jesus, when Kirk is a far better lover and keeps coming back again. Oh yes, I know he died in Generations, but give me sometime... I'll find a way to resurrect him myself... in a fanfic. The god Kirk speaks, "Sounds like fun!"

 

 

You totally rock, Mriana. If I were gay, Kirk would be da man !!!!

[Dagan]

This quote reflects exactly what is going on in this thread. I say something, people pull it apart and shred it, then reassemble it into something I never intended for in the beginning.

 

Now you know how Jesus must feel at seeing what Christians have done with his words.

[Vixentrox]

But I would still check with pastors, etc to see if it was in line with Gods truth.

That might be the most depressing post I've seen here.

Guess she can't trust the holy spirit to guide her. Her imaginary boyfriend and holy book doesn't offer enough guidance so she has to rely on on some preacher for the Truth.

 

Well, I wouldn't knock an imaginary boyfriend too much. I have several- there is Sully from Dr. Quinn, Will Riker, Geordi Laforge, Chakotay, Sisko, and even Scotty and Sulu when I was younger before TNG came out and then there is the One who has had more resurrections than Jesus Christ- Capt. James T. Kirk. With Capt. Kirk in the mix, why <i>Mourn for Adonis</i>? She's really missing out by going with a god/man like Jesus, when Kirk is a far better lover and keeps coming back again. Oh yes, I know he died in Generations, but give me sometime... I'll find a way to resurrect him myself... in a fanfic. The god Kirk speaks, "Sounds like fun!"

Yeah, but THOSE imaginary boyfriends are cool and sexy and good. Kathlene's Bible god is evil, hateful, and barbaric though she gives her boyfriend a pass on those poor qualities.

[Checkmate]

Er....checkmate in reference to your last post to me with the Red bolded accusation...this is the reason I wrote that when we defend our faith, etc...

These are your own words. You SHOULD be allowed to defend yourselves and even accurately represent your faith.

 

It seems you are really it two minds here on whether you want us here or not!!

Did you not notice what I said as well in my post, that I dont post anymore, because there are two thoughts in here and never the twain shall they meet. I have read Antlers respectful post in reply to this and he has some good points. I dont really feel a need to defend my faith at all. What I do is hear the viewpoints in here that say God is horrible, a liar, an ogre yada yada and I try and point out that the whole world does not think this. Then we get into debates of well prove it then!!! So I say, well these are my experiences...Then every man and his dog comes out and rips it to bits. So I cant win either way. So if I post, I post. If I dont, I dont. Im in two minds these days on whether I want to or not. Bah...at least I provide good comic relief either way to ya'll.

Kathlene, I am not of two minds. My statements are stand alone items. I will now reiterate them in short form. Please pay attention as I'm done talking with you about this and have no intention of revisiting this thread. [i've got better things to do with my time. Like watching paint peel.]

 

1. I said you should be allowed to post on this site if you want to. [in answer to your OP.]

 

2. I then asked you why do you WANT to post/defend your faith? Especially when you yourself admit the futility of this venture. [separate and distinct issue from your OP.]

 

How is this "of two minds"? I haven't contradicted myself here. Post all you fucking want. It simply seems stupid to me that you even bother. Considering all the angst you carry from making the effort.

 

So, hang around and post, or don't hang around. But for fuck's sake, IF you're going to post, why don't you try leaving all of your neurotic hand-wringing outside? It's getting old.

 

Hasta la bye-bye, human scum. See you people in a few months or so.

[Mriana]

You totally rock, Mriana. If I were gay, Kirk would be da man !!!!

 

Thank you. What do you mean? Kirk IS da man! Even Joan Collins thought so.

 

Yeah, but THOSE imaginary boyfriends are cool and sexy and good. Kathlene's Bible god is evil, hateful, and barbaric though she gives her boyfriend a pass on those poor qualities.

 

You got that right, Sista. They are also intelligent too.

[Antlerman]

There are bridges of thought in here, and never the twain shall meet....

I actually disagree with this.

I tend to agree with it. For instance, if two people disagree about what qualifies as genuine knowledge then I think they are likely to disagree on many things.

And that makes my point with the rest of what I said. Each takes on stance on a different position on the subject, both assuming it has to be one or the other. With that mindset, the twain in fact never will come together. Opposite sides of the same coin.

 

But is it possible to look at both sides of the coin by transcending it and see the coin as multidimensional? Essentially, if not, then you take the whole human and split him in half. Sort of like that original Star Trek episode, since that theme has come up in here. These two races from a planet which destroyed themselves stuck in an endless battle they couldn't resolve. Their faces are black on one side and white on the other. Kirk is puzzled as to how they are different, to which the response, "Can't you see? He's white on the right side, I'm white on the left side!" But they were both the same in spite of appearance on the surface, with neither wishing to acknowledge that to themselves.

 

And that is my point. Each half is a manifestation of the whole. And as each ignores that part of themselves in contrast to the other, each denies their own self.

 

I can fully appreciate why people choose faith, and I can fully appreciate why people choose reason and evidence. I see it as unfortunate that the argument is construed as a choice of one or the other. To me, it's not reasonable, nor having faith.

Hmm... well I think even science has a small grain of "faith" at its foundation.

I would agree, but that's really not important to the point. Doing science, is not living life. Living life, is full of faith. Doing science is a tool one uses as part of it. This sort of knowledge is useful, but not the shining Light of Life itself in being a whole human, except in an act of faith elevating it as such in a religious choice as an object of Faith. We evolved as humans using many ways of seeing the world.

 

This whole thing is a several hundred year old argument over which Bible is authoritative, what "Authority" can we point to and say Truth!? The Church and its symbolic world, or Science and its empirical facts? Flip sides of the same coin. It's like a siblings argument going round and round. At some point eventually it may be seen, like it or not, we're the same family, we're the same blood.

[Brakeman]

My apologies Brakeman for not answering your posts. I can see that you really actually want to hear answers. I have learnt in here that whatever I post, and I mean whatever, will be dissected and misconstrued, taken apart, rehashed and then smashed to pieces and regurgitated into something I never meant in the first place. So I have been wary and a little hesitant. Which is why I started this thread. I wanted to get some answers from members in here to see what the going vibe is with having me in here and posting. Apparently it is for comic relief. I did take a break from posting for a while, and sometimes I will enter into a debate or discussion, but not always. I am learning to choose my battles wisely in here, because, unfortunately thats what they become battles. Not a two way street of learning from each other. So forgive me Brakeman, I will try in future to respond more to your posts, and maybe more of others in here.

 

This quote reflects exactly what is going on in this thread. I say something, people pull it apart and shred it, then reassemble it into something I never intended for in the beginning.

 

It must give you all such a sense of smug satisfaction to pull someone apart....sigh. Note to self..it is the lions den..

 

Kathlene,

 

Please see that I did not respond harshly or in any way disrespectfully. The other commentators are independent of myself. Furthermore My wife would probably have answered EXACTLY as you did, and I respect her greatly.

 

Now back to the discussion.

Unfortunately It ISN'T a hypothetical question, it is an actual question, there are several Apocryphal books that were originally in the bible, but that the catholic church ,first, and the church of England King James later retracted to serve their purposes.

 

As to the topic that the other commentators jumped on, that you would ask your pastor, well I would agree myself with you, as you would want to hear as much information about it as you can. However I would be sure not to "follow the Pied Piper to hell" so to speak.

 

I am making a big assumption here, but why did you chose to follow a King James Church of England protestant religion verses any other?

[Mriana]

But is it possible to look at both sides of the coin by transcending it and see the coin as multidimensional? Essentially, if not, then you take the whole human and split him in half. Sort of like that original Star Trek episode, since that theme has come up in here. These two races from a planet which destroyed themselves stuck in an endless battle they couldn't resolve. Their faces are black on one side and white on the other. Kirk is puzzled as to how they are different, to which the response, "Can't you see? He's white on the right side, I'm white on the left side!" But they were both the same in spite of appearance on the surface, with neither wishing to acknowledge that to themselves.

 

And that is my point. Each half is a manifestation of the whole. And as each ignores that part of themselves in contrast to the other, each denies their own self.

 

I remember that episode all too well and it reminded me of RL. Of course, many episodes do and I think that is what makes S.T. better than the Bible. Gene had a talent for turning RL scenarios into a work of art and he did that to convey a message through the media. It worked for some of us, but then again, I those of us who see such things in Trek think a lot like Gene did.

 

This whole thing is a several hundred year old argument over which Bible is authoritative, what "Authority" can we point to and say Truth!? The Church and its symbolic world, or Science and its empirical facts? Flip sides of the same coin. It's like a siblings argument going round and round. At some point eventually it may be seen, like it or not, we're the same family, we're the same blood.

 

Well said, Antlerman.

[florduh]

Plutarch - "The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."

 

To discard the human ability to think and reason is tragic. To keep oneself insulated from reality in order to maintain a fantasy is such a waste of potential. It is this mindset that is the basis for cult behavior. Victims of cult thinking live life as a drone and can therefore contribute nothing to humanity. It makes me sad when I see it.

[Vigile]

I wont let go of God despite whatever anyone may through in my face, is because I feel peace with god.

 

I think Kath is right, we'll never have a meeting of the minds. She chooses to believe because it makes her feel good. We can't believe because we need something to be true in order to believe it. For her, something that makes her feel good makes that something true. I'll never understand the position of her and those like her and perhaps she'll never understand why people like us need facts and evidence regardless of how they make us feel.

[Antlerman]

Plutarch - "The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."

 

To discard the human ability to think and reason is tragic. To keep oneself insulated from reality in order to maintain a fantasy is such a waste of potential. It is this mindset that is the basis for cult behavior. Victims of cult thinking live life as a drone and can therefore contribute nothing to humanity. It makes me sad when I see it.

That's the other side of the coin.

 

Just to play the devil's advocate here, let me argue from the tails side of that coin. "To discard the human embrace of hope and dreams which have no empirical data, are not arrived at via a conclusion of reason and research, to reject an acknowledgment of centering ones sense of purpose and being in the unseen without evidence, in an act of Faith, is itself tragic and insulating oneself from the reality of living as a human. It is a fantasy to imagine we have no more control over our lives and destinies than a clock has to strike the next hour because it is ruled and governed by its mechanical parts. It is a denial of reality to reduce the human spirit to a mere machine. It is a delusion of mind to imagine we are robots."

 

Now how much of that would you agree fits your philosophy? Some, but not all? None of it? Then can you imagine that someone who sees the world more dominantly from the left side of the coin, would consider the above charge of how they live as a 'fantasy'? Reality in your eyes, reality in their eyes, is only an interpretation, an understanding, an experience of the whole.

 

I think its a false analogy to say that anyone who embraces a system of religious symbolism in their living out life, is any more discarding thinking and reasoning, than those who dominate their world with the symbols of the material world as 'empirical facts', is themselves discarding faith. The rhetoric polarizes the opposites into the denial of the other in themselves. That to me, is in fact, denying reality.

[Vigile]

Plutarch - "The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."

 

To discard the human ability to think and reason is tragic. To keep oneself insulated from reality in order to maintain a fantasy is such a waste of potential. It is this mindset that is the basis for cult behavior. Victims of cult thinking live life as a drone and can therefore contribute nothing to humanity. It makes me sad when I see it.

 

Yeah, I too see it as a form of quitting and taking the easy way out. I do think that the ability to overcome this is a 'higher,' for lack of a better word, evolutionary trait and caving into it is caving into base nature. It's an easy way out for many, perhaps most. It's not something I'm capable of and I'm frankly glad for this fact even though it makes people like me, you, us, different.