To All Of God's Critics

[Godtastic]

The point of manipulating Pharaoh was to ensure that he did not let the people go, thus bringing glory to God for performing great miracles.

 

Why do you call the slaughter of innocent children a "great miracle"? How sick is your world view? We are talking about real human beings, children that can feel pain and emotions, parents who lost the most precious in a cruel and violent way. Slaughter is a miracle? The next time you meet an Egypt family, look at them. They are real, made out of flesh, they breathe, laugh and cry (http://www.buffry.org.uk/children1.jpg) They are not just a decoration for a "great miracle". You still treat non-xians like a scenery, a stage decoration for the great story of gods salvation. You give a shit about the individual being. We have to see the "big picture". People are not equal in the face of god as you have mentioned, and they are not equal in your face. We have clean and holy vessels and we have the unclean and useless vessels. The entire bible is about separation and disparity, about good and evil, right and wrong.

 

Regarding the killed firstborns: As longs as you are not able to call "murder" murder and "rape" rape, you are mentally dysfunctional.

 

Maybe, due to my lack of English, I did not get the real meaning of your post. Then I would excuse.

 

 

Fantastic post. FYI, your English is splendid - it's better written than a lot of us native English speakers.

[Greatest I am]

The point of manipulating Pharaoh was to ensure that he did not let the people go, thus bringing glory to God for performing great miracles.

 

Why do you call the slaughter of innocent children a "great miracle"? How sick is your world view? We are talking about real human beings, children that can feel pain and emotions, parents who lost the most precious in a cruel and violent way. Slaughter is a miracle? The next time you meet an Egypt family, look at them. They are real, made out of flesh, they breathe, laugh and cry (http://www.buffry.org.uk/children1.jpg) They are not just a decoration for a "great miracle". You still treat non-xians like a scenery, a stage decoration for the great story of gods salvation. You give a shit about the individual being. We have to see the "big picture". People are not equal in the face of god as you have mentioned, and they are not equal in your face. We have clean and holy vessels and we have the unclean and useless vessels. The entire bible is about separation and disparity, about good and evil, right and wrong.

 

Regarding the killed firstborns: As longs as you are not able to call "murder" murder and "rape" rape, you are mentally dysfunctional.

 

Maybe, due to my lack of English, I did not get the real meaning of your post. Then I would excuse.

 

 

 

Fantastic post. FYI, your English is splendid - it's better written than a lot of us native English speakers.

 

Mais oui. Sais beau, in any language.

 

Thumb should realize that it would have been a great miracle, more befitting a God, if He would have cured instead of kill.

 

Much better to look like a great doctor than a great genocidal maniac.

 

Regards

DL

[Ouroboros]

Thumb should realize that it would have been a great miracle, more befitting a God, if He would have cured instead of kill.

That's right. If God can do anything, then why couldn't he just correct the people instead of killing men, women, children, babies, unborn, cats, dogs, hens, pigs, cows, horses, and destroy the rest of the property? God truly sounds like an overreacting delinquent five-year-old with way too much power than he can handle. He's like a child with a loaded gun. It's about time matured human beings take the gun away from him before he commits more atrocities.

[Animania]

"Personally, I would be a deity who creates less powerful beings (otherwise I wouldn't remain their god for long)"

Very smart cuz that is exactly what God did. If a being is created then it CANNOT be a God; you can't have deity without eternity.

 

Your view of God is rather narrow. Why does God have to be eternal? Shouldn't he have the power to decide to no longer exist? Why couldn't a created being be eternal? Aren't you a "created being", and do you not believe your soul to be eternal?

[mwc]

Maybe I should play again?

 

I would create a single being that was far more powerful than myself. It would then have the sole job of condemning me through a series of silly rules that it would think up. I would try to please my new overlord but that would be impossible by design. So I would suffer through my miserable existence until I died thinking that this would finally be the day I might be reconciled with my monstrous creation. Alas, this would not be the case and I would cease to exist as would it.

 

mwc

[Greatest I am]

"Personally, I would be a deity who creates less powerful beings (otherwise I wouldn't remain their god for long)"

Very smart cuz that is exactly what God did. If a being is created then it CANNOT be a God; you can't have deity without eternity.

 

Your view of God is rather narrow. Why does God have to be eternal? Shouldn't he have the power to decide to no longer exist? Why couldn't a created being be eternal? Aren't you a "created being", and do you not believe your soul to be eternal?

 

Thumb

Was Jesus not created? Do not give that begotten B S please.

Who came first, the Father or the Son. Scripture says that the Father is to serve the Son so why did Jesus die and not the Father doing His service to the Son?

That would be more biblical.

 

 

Regards

DL

[Thumbelina]

I was supposed to respond to this thread a while back and I just didn't get to finish some of my responses. Ah, I stopped by to bother Michael a little bit

 

I am just blabbin' right now and also I realize certain tricks that skeptics try and I just wanted to mention them.

 

Yeah I know a lot of you think my responses have been long but that's just it, I have had some experience conversing with a few atheistic and agnostic types and this is what they usually do; I call it "The Stratagem Of The Atheists (in order to ensure deception in the last days)". They ask a believer a question about the bible, a question they are not really interested in hearing the answer to; rather than seeking an answer to help them believe, many atheistic skeptics use it as a weapon to discourage belief. I think the secular schools indoctrinate them to do this; it's a contemporary version of stoicism I would say.

 

The answers that a believer gives cannot be too short because biblical answers are simple but also quite profound so the believer has to expound on it (OK, I admit, there are a lot of teachings out there that are a mess! ). This one atheist whom I love, his attitude is basically this: I'm NOT listenin'! I'm NOT listenin' I'm just debunkin'! He is incredibly smart and funny and CRAZY. He will ask questions and when you answer them and he can't argue with it, he just throws out more questions without considering that maybe he misconstrued the accounts in the bible. He's also obsessed with "how evil god is" and with sodomy (or so it would seem based on some of his comments) but he's more obsessed with God. When a believer gives him a response that he cannot refute he starts cussing or he does the usual atheistic thing of calling the believer stupid, ignorant, gullible and of course he has to let them know how smart atheists are. Eh, he's not an atheist, he's too obsessed with God; one time I told him that even Stevie Wonder can see that he's not an atheist. I drive him nuts lol.

 

SOME atheists take what you say and twist it and they say what you didn't say at all; see how the devil has them deceived? I guess they believe that this is a noble trait. When one gives them a response that requires a lengthy response, they say that it is too much info. When one directs them to certain links so that lengthy posts can be avoided they don't check it out and then they say the believer does not answer their questions. The believer simply cannot win with such a mischievous lot

 

I wrote the above just in case that there are any sincere people who want to converse about the bible and may not realize atheists had such strategies and then some or maybe the skeptics themselves don't realize they do that.

 

Yup, I realize that some of you on this ws try that strategy but some posts a believer just can't resist responding to Y'all are basically naughty and yet kind of likable and interestin'.

 

 

 

......................

 

 

 

 

Re: Post #262

 

@ Michael

 

Thumbelina: Mr. Michael Sir, you do not like the use of pejorative English?

 

Michael: Well, Mrs. Thumbelina, sometimes I treat people without the appropriate respect. Especially when I am tired (physically and/or mental).

 

Response:

 

Thumbelina: I think that's your way of saying you meant no disrespect so apology accepted [smile]

.......

Thumbelina, on 08 April 2010 - 06:21 PM, said: Skeptics generally do not care. Besides, no matter what a believer tells a skeptic their usual mantra is "We are smarter than you!" I suppose since God is in the ditch with skeptics SOME will need to find something to make themselves FEEL good about (it is human nature).

 

Michael: Xians generally do not care. Besides, no matter what an ex-christian/atheist tells a xian their usual mantra is "We are smarter than you!" I suppose since the facts are in the ditch with xians SOME will need to find something to make themselves FEEL good about (it is human nature).

 

Response:

Thumbelina: LOL Oh Mr. Michael, you are starting to get the hang of the art of friendly sparring. You should get Nightflight to give you some tips for he's good at mild sarcasm; He made me lol in the beginning of this thread then purple made me laugh even louder. You made me lol with this response!

 

Michael, you said " Besides, no matter what an ex-christian/atheist tells a xian their usual mantra is "We are smarter than you!"

 

But of course they are for they at least recognize that they have a problem (i.e. sin/selfishness) and ex-Christians/atheists are in serious denial.

 

.........

 

Thumbelina, on 08 April 2010 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

I prefer the biblical point of view that puts all humans as equal; that none is better than the other. There would be no discrimination or oppressions or violence etc. if that rule was to be followed.

 

Michael:We must have different bibles. The bible is pure racism. The Jewish people is chosen by god. It is a "holy" people. Other people can be raped, killed, burned...you get the picture. Equality is not existent in the bible. Btw. women would be oppressed, gay people would be oppressed... but that is another story.

 

Response:

Thumbelina: The theme in the entire bible is that humans are sinners who deserve eternal death, God is gracious and He leveled the playing field so that none can boast about their good works; all they have to do is to believe, come to Him as they are and when they spend time with Him they repent of their sins and He gives them power to do His will. The reason why there is disparity is not God's fault but because some people don't follow Him at all and some are at different stages of their conversions and He's patiently working to transform them into His image.

 

Thumbelina, on 08 April 2010 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

I get a funny feeling in my heart for atheists/agnostics etc. and I suppose it is love, though it really does not negate the fact that atheists need a virtual swift kick in the pants! However, God should be the one to do the kicking.

Michael:You still have no idea, where the people in this forum come from and I guess you do not care.

 

 

Response:

 

Thumbelina: Objective view: This forum seems to be some sort of support group for people who were fed up with, confused or hurt by religion, Christianity in particular. Some folks seem to be after carpe diem and are sowing some wild oats and atheism gives them the freedom to do so; a minor minority seem to be extremely bigoted toward believers and are quick to attack (maybe because they were badly hurt by religionists). This forum seems to give unbelievers a sense of belonging in a world consisting mainly of believers. Am I at least partially correct?

 

Subjective view: From a biblical perspective, ex-Christians are in grave danger of eternal ruin. They were in churches that the bible refers to as spiritual Babylon (confusion) and they went from the frying pan into the fire. Though the bible says that A LOT of God's sincere believers are in a lot of these churches that have erroneous doctrines which can and will ultimately lead a # of them to be deceived. If atheistic types insist on remaining unbelievers, it will be utterly sad and they may also encourage others to go to eternal ruin also.

 

Thumbelina, on 08 April 2010 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

I hope you're fine and now I must bid you adieu for I am going to bother Mr. Centauri and OnceConvinced. There are others I would like to gently tease but I just can't get to them.

Michael: We all need a hobby...

 

 

Response:

 

Thumbelina: It is fun and interesting to talk with others that don't believe as I do and for some reason I tend to be drawn to atheistic types but no, warning others is also necessary for they are beautiful humans that are in grave danger and a believer understands that eternal life is available to all who is willing to grasp it.

[Thumbelina]

Re: Post # 264

 

@ Michael

 

Thumbelina, on 08 April 2010 - 06:41 PM, said NOT:

 

The point of manipulating Pharaoh was to ensure that he did not let the people go, thus bringing glory to God for performing great miracles.

Response:

 

Thumbelina: Hey!!!! I did not write that, that was Centauri's craziness! That Centauri is quite mischievous; heh heh he thinks he's a mini Johnny Cochran or some kind of main arbiter lol. Though that Centauri is really a mischievous fellow he amuses me; I kinda like him. The bible belt! LOL. (Sorry Centauri, you're probably frustrated as hell being surrounded by Christians and all who want to save your soul from hell.)

 

 

Michael: Why do you call the slaughter of innocent children a "great miracle"? How sick is your world view? We are talking about real human beings, children that can feel pain and emotions, parents who lost the most precious in a cruel and violent way. Slaughter is a miracle? The next time you meet an Egypt family, look at them. They are real, made out of flesh, they breathe, laugh and cry (http://www.buffry.org.uk/children1.jpg) They are not just a decoration for a "great miracle". You still treat non-xians like a scenery, a stage decoration for the great story of gods salvation. You give a shit about the individual being. We have to see the "big picture". People are not equal in the face of god as you have mentioned, and they are not equal in your face. We have clean and holy vessels and we have the unclean and useless vessels. The entire bible is about separation and disparity, about good and evil, right and wrong.

 

Regarding the killed firstborns: As longs as you are not able to call "murder" murder and "rape" rape, you are mentally dysfunctional.

 

 

Response:

 

Thumbelina: As I said before, those were Centauri's words that you all keep foisting on me. We are talking of the past here. Those first borns (whom by the way were different age ranges including older people) died and they could have chosen to be saved but they REFUSED to do it; if they had only applied the blood over their door posts then there would not have been any deaths but they were hard hearted and UTTERLY stupid, they saw God's power and they did not want to humble themselves. Actually the people told the Pharaoh to acquiesce and let the people he was oppressing go but no, he had to be stubborn and force God's hand. Also, that same Pharaoh was the one who wanted to murder a whole lot of Israelite children, which unbelievers who critique the account totally ignore. Ah Michael, please don't think I am calloused; I shed tears for suffering people and Christians do reach out to the poor, suffering, oppressed etc. and it's not in order to be saved but because we are saved and want others to be saved too.

 

 

Michael: Maybe, due to my lack of English, I did not get the real meaning of your post. Then I would excuse.

 

Response:

 

Thumbelina: A lot of folk speak English just fine and they don't get the meaning of my posts either ; that's probably because they already have preconceived notions about what Christians teach or what the bible says and also because they are surface readers. They sure are wrong about God and the bible though; but trying to get someone who have a close mind about the bible to see how beautiful it is, is tough but the job of a believer is just to present biblical truth to others and leave it up to them to accept it or reject it.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Hey OnceConvinced, I started responding to your posts and then I realized that you may find it a tedious task to read it so I tell ya what, you say your suggestions are not tummy rot and I say THEY ARE!

 

I may still answer some of it though lest any lurkers think you know what you are talking about when it comes to the bible and sin etc. So if and when I decide to respond you don't have to respond if responding is going to weary you; not that I don't love it when you do respond

 

..........................

 

Mr. Centauri I also started responding to your posts but did not finish them; I am not going to spend a lot of time typing out lenghty responses just for you to totally dismiss them.

 

.........................

 

To some of the othe posters I'm sorry I didn't get to answer some of your questions.

[Thumbelina]

Re:Post # 271

 

@ Paperman

 

1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?

 

Paperman: That's coming from the basis of "everyone is on the same power scale".

 

Thumbelina: If you are a self existent god then how come CREATED beings can be on the same power scale as you?

 

Paperman:If I were to create some beings, they'd have to be usefull for something and capable of doing something I'm incapable of doing.

 

Thumbelina: Huh? What kind of God would you be then? The biblical/Creator God cannot die (as God i.e.), lie or be deceived; being unable to die, lie or be deceived are inherent limitations that are within the very nature of Omnipotence and they don't lessen God's power at all. The biblical/Creator God is all powerful.

 

 

 

Paperman: If I am all powerful aka all capable then I would also be all the beings I am creating. If I am not creating something that is of me, then I am not all capable and need these tools aka beings. Power would not (and cannot possibly) be an equation in the matter, I would create something alike to a rocket, a car, a cellphone, but be a live being. Compared me to those things: myself and each have varying abilities.

 

Thumbelina: Huh? This reasoning seems contradictory; you would be some sort of a pantheistic god? Are you actually agreeing with the biblical concept of creating certain beings in your image; or are you talking about creating automatons?

 

 

 

2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?

 

Paperman: I only know of one type of will all creatures with a brain share. What knows the will of anything labeled God? To me, you either have a will or you don't. (if there are varying degrees of will, then it is beyond our knowledge)

 

Thumbelina: God reveals His will to His intelligent creatures; no created being can fully understand God but He reveals enough about Himself so that His free will beings can see how loving He is and what an awesome Creator He is.

 

 

 

3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation?

 

Paperman: I will put them in a reality where they cannot hurt anything.

 

Thumbelina: So, if it is their desire to hurt you emotionally and their fellow creatures emotionally and physically you would just continue to physically prevent them from doing any physical harm but it's OK to hurt each other verbally and emotionally? This particular reality doesn't seem to be too blissful to me.

 

4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules?

 

Paperman:If anyone does overide this reality in dissonance I would place them in a different reality. Of course one that seperates me from them.

 

Thumbelina: Oooo, sort of close to what God did Paperman! However, God is omnipresent, He is aware of everything but sin does separate creatures from Him; He is Holy and He has to veil Himself when He's around sinful beings; when creatures sin they run away from Him. Sin is foreign to God's nature but grace, mercy and longsuffering are part of His nature so that's partially why He did not destroy the creatures that disturbed cosmic shalom (peace) through perpetual dissonance. By having discussions with some atheists and agnostics I realized that God created time when He created this world and I realized the reason why He created time was because He knew that the experiment with sin will be a temporary phenomenon and it is on this planet where He would eventually destroy sin, calamity and DEATH and consequently perpetual shalom and bliss will reign.

 

Paperman: However, I would not make the mistake of creating my perfect "eden" in the same place (aka same planet) I sent them.

 

Thumbelina: You would banish them to some sort of Siberia? You are omniscient so you know if they will repent or not, so what will you do with the ones that you know would continue in dissonance? What would you do with the ones you know will eventually repent after being prodigals?

 

Paperman: Being "all capable" means that only eternal things could exist within me, eternal seperation should be impossible because seperation would mean the nonexistence of that being. However, if I truly am all capable and I allowed "eternal seperation", it would create a void in me and ultimatly and eventually kill me. Losing a part of myself is out of the question.

 

Thumbelina: Man, trying to wrap my mind around this response gave me a headache lol. So you're saying you would be able to die as a god? You are partially right though, there will be an eternal hole in God's heart for all the free will beings that chose to remain evil and therefore they chose to go to hell and will ultimately be destroyed, they'll be kaput, bupkis. The pain of our sins caused a separation between Jesus and the Father, when Jesus took our place and became sin and that is actually what killed Him (as a man i.e., for that was the only way He could die).

 

You said "Losing a part of myself is out of the question." but a Holy God cannot force creatures to love Him for eternity; creatures who hate Him and whom if given a chance will oppress their fellow creatures will be miserable in the presence of a Holy God and holy beings.

[par4dcourse]

Your handlers have prepared you well to deal with the big, bad atheists.

 

All anyone has asked you for is proof of anything you claim. Sorry if that's too much to ask.

[OnceConvinced]

 

Hey OnceConvinced, I started responding to your posts and then I realized that you may find it a tedious task to read it so I tell ya what, you say your suggestions are not tummy rot and I say THEY ARE!

 

No,I'm not finding them tedious at all.

 

But it's all very well to say "tummy rot" but you have not shown how it is tummy rot. I have given you examples of how my suggestions would work and even shown them how they work in someone like me to prevent me from committing certain sins, yet my freewill is not violated, is it? If you are honest with yourself you would see that no freewill is being violated with what I am proposing. Lurkers will certainly see that you have done nothing to show how my proposals can be considered tummy rot, so continuing to say that without backing up your argument is futile and shows a lack of integrity on your part. If God was on your side, and you really had his understanding of any of this, you would have us all agreeing with you because your holy spirit wisdom would be so impressive. It just goes to prove that your God is not all it's cracked up to be.

 

I did have fun debating with you though.

[bdp]

 

Y'all are basically naughty and yet kind of likable and interestin'.

 

 

 

And you're just nauseating - I suppose it's futile to ask you to talk like an ordinary, mature human being instead of a 'too cute for words' little kid. Seriously, I'm about to hurl.

[Thumbelina]

 

Hey OnceConvinced, I started responding to your posts and then I realized that you may find it a tedious task to read it so I tell ya what, you say your suggestions are not tummy rot and I say THEY ARE!

I did give you examples of why it is tummy rot my friend but you don't seem to understand. I once debated this sweet agnostic dude in the past and he basically wants believers to thrill him with God too but it is his own heart that's keeping him from finding God. If a person is sincerely willing to find God then they WILL!

 

I don't mind discussing the bible with you but you had seemed a tad fed up in one of your previous posts and I did not want to bother you.

 

Nice hearing from you, I kinda missed ya

[Shyone]

Yeah I know a lot of you think my responses have been long but that's just it, I have had some experience conversing with a few atheistic and agnostic types and this is what they usually do; I call it "The Stratagem Of The Atheists (in order to ensure deception in the last days)". They ask a believer a question about the bible, a question they are not really interested in hearing the answer to; rather than seeking an answer to help them believe, many atheistic skeptics use it as a weapon to discourage belief. I think the secular schools indoctrinate them to do this; it's a contemporary version of stoicism I would say.

 

You have essentially decided that we can't be right, and you believe our questions are only intended to deceive you.

 

We ask difficult questions, and we have considered the answers before. Some of these questions and their clear answers have convinced us that there never was a god, neither Greek, nor Sumerian, nor Egyptian, nor Nordic, nor Hebrew. Yes, they "discourage belief" but that is because the Bible itself discourages people who read it with an open mind.

 

Here's an example:

 

Those first borns (whom by the way were different age ranges including older people) died and they could have chosen to be saved but they REFUSED to do it; if they had only applied the blood over their door posts then there would not have been any deaths but they were hard hearted and UTTERLY stupid, they saw God's power and they did not want to humble themselves.

 

You are saying that it wasn't so bad because they weren't all children. Just some. Some children who were innocent, unable to act for themselves, unable to understand why they were being killed.

 

Hard hearted infants indeed!

 

Is it right to kill someones children in order to get the parents to change their minds?

 

Is it right to murder the innocent to punish the guilty?

 

You really don't see the problem, do you? And that is the problem. To you, it's just "Atheist Strategy", but to me it's children being killed who didn't deserve it.

 

When your heart catches up to your mind, and you feel the anguish of a parent whose child has suffered at the hands of another, maybe you will see why killing people who don't deserve to die is unconscionable.

[NotBlinded]

I was supposed to respond to this thread a while back and I just didn't get to finish some of my responses. Ah, I stopped by to bother Michael a little bit

 

I am just blabbin' right now and also I realize certain tricks that skeptics try and I just wanted to mention them.

 

Yeah I know a lot of you think my responses have been long but that's just it, I have had some experience conversing with a few atheistic and agnostic types and this is what they usually do; I call it "The Stratagem Of The Atheists (in order to ensure deception in the last days)". They ask a believer a question about the bible, a question they are not really interested in hearing the answer to; rather than seeking an answer to help them believe, many atheistic skeptics use it as a weapon to discourage belief. I think the secular schools indoctrinate them to do this; it's a contemporary version of stoicism I would say.

Why on earth would we ask you a question in order to help us believe your drivel? We ask you questions in order to point to your folly. Our intent is genuine; it's to help others escape the mind-trap you are wallowing in. Discourage belief? In your version of God? Absolutely.

 

The answers that a believer gives cannot be too short because biblical answers are simple but also quite profound so the believer has to expound on it (OK, I admit, there are a lot of teachings out there that are a mess! ). This one atheist whom I love, his attitude is basically this: I'm NOT listenin'! I'm NOT listenin' I'm just debunkin'! He is incredibly smart and funny and CRAZY. He will ask questions and when you answer them and he can't argue with it, he just throws out more questions without considering that maybe he misconstrued the accounts in the bible. He's also obsessed with "how evil god is" and with sodomy (or so it would seem based on some of his comments) but he's more obsessed with God. When a believer gives him a response that he cannot refute he starts cussing or he does the usual atheistic thing of calling the believer stupid, ignorant, gullible and of course he has to let them know how smart atheists are. Eh, he's not an atheist, he's too obsessed with God; one time I told him that even Stevie Wonder can see that he's not an atheist. I drive him nuts lol.

Duh... Did you ever consider that atheists step into your fantasy world in order to get you to see how silly it is? Just like you would do with a child caught up in story-telling. It's called reasoning.

 

SOME atheists take what you say and twist it and they say what you didn't say at all; see how the devil has them deceived? I guess they believe that this is a noble trait. When one gives them a response that requires a lengthy response, they say that it is too much info. When one directs them to certain links so that lengthy posts can be avoided they don't check it out and then they say the believer does not answer their questions. The believer simply cannot win with such a mischievous lot

Coming from the Queen of twisting and deception herself...

 

I wrote the above just in case that there are any sincere people who want to converse about the bible and may not realize atheists had such strategies and then some or maybe the skeptics themselves don't realize they do that.

Can you converse about the bible without resorting to circular logic? Remember where you are. You are not going to find people here that take the bible as being an authoritative book just because it says it is.

 

Again...duh.

[bdp]

...and all this 'my friend' shit from the theists lately is going to make me barf too. You're not 'my friend' until I decide you've earned it.

[Astreja]

Is it right to kill someones children in order to get the parents to change their minds?

 

Is it right to murder the innocent to punish the guilty?

 

You really don't see the problem, do you? And that is the problem. To you, it's just "Atheist Strategy", but to me it's children being killed who didn't deserve it.

 

When your heart catches up to your mind, and you feel the anguish of a parent whose child has suffered at the hands of another, maybe you will see why killing people who don't deserve to die is unconscionable.

 

^^^ This.

 

Making excuses for genocide is immoral and unconscionable, Thumbelina. Take out your earplugs and listen to the evil that's coming out of your own mouth.

[Michael]

Thumbelina,

you are completely lost in your xian phrases. You are not able to leave your little box and I can understand it. You have your picture of "atheists" (maybe the people here are not all atheists) and you are to frightened to be open minded. That is the reason why a discussion with you does not make any sense. You are just repeating the same stuff over and over again and you are ignoring the answers. You think that this is a kind of game, that we are throwing stuff at each other in order to "win" the argument. It is about real people sharing real thoughts and emotions and it is useless to get into some kind of "penis comparison". Do you feel good when you can "slay" people with bible phrases while ignoring their answers? Is this some "training field" for you mission group? Again: You do not love people, you are just repeating stuff your pastor told you and you have never made the effort to read the bible on your own and make your own conclusions. Most people on this forum have been devoted xians for years and decades. They know their bible (far better than you and most of them better than your pastor), they had their experiences and you treat all those years they have invested in god and xianity as nothing. Those people were once servants of god. How can you treat them like little kids? Although we all know how you are thinking about little children. You still believe, that killing children is ok and on the other hand you are disgusted about abortion (I guess you are...). You are sure to have a high moral standard, but you are ignoring the ugliness inside the bible. You are just self righteous and you still have no idea where the people here come from. As long as you are not willing to be open to people you are not a "face to face human being" but just a "shit and run poster", a "kill the atheist machine".

[Thackerie]

 

Y'all are basically naughty and yet kind of likable and interestin'.

 

 

 

And you're just nauseating - I suppose it's futile to ask you to talk like an ordinary, mature human being instead of a 'too cute for words' little kid. Seriously, I'm about to hurl.

 

 

I think she was channeling Sarah Palin there. Barf-inducing, indeed.

 

I usually enjoy reading "debates" between christians and realists but this one is just frustrating because she's only babbling a lot of bible-speak/Palin-speak (i.e., the standard empty phrases with some cutesy-poo topping) and not saying anything with any meaning to it.

[Guest Valk0010]

To thumbelina

 

You probably would say that logic is a gift of god.

 

Why then can't we apply logic to his deeds.

 

I know you say he is more powerful then us and are understandings week, but why???

 

He gave us only one method to understand the world, and then intentional does what seems like the most badshit things?

 

I call BS and say what I think, and why there is holes in every religion that I have looked at.

 

Religion is meant to explain the unexplainable and be a working system, for its very self preservation.

 

That is where you get things like faith and god is mystery, to cover the stuff that the original ideas didn't cover?

 

I will leave you with a example

 

How is it that all of the modern biologists that accept evolution(I would argue you can't be a credible biologist and not accept evolution, but thats another point for another time) are wrong yet some bronze age or less people god it right?

 

You are going to say its god breathed, but then why the differing accounts, even if the bible didn't contradict, its still we be way mor languid and flush in covering details, look at the differences between genesis one's creation account and the other one for example.

[ContraBardus]

Thumbelina, I'm still a bit fuzzy about the whole premise of this thread.

 

I mean, am I a critic of Santa because I don't believe in him?

 

I'm not critical of 'God', I'm critical of Christians and their beliefs. Just like I'm critical of Hindu beliefs and Islamic beliefs. There's a difference between criticizing your God and criticizing your belief in God.

 

I'm no more a critic of the God of Abraham and Jesus than I am a critic of Zeus and Hercules, or Osiris and Horus.

 

I don't believe in him, and that doesn't make me a critic of him.

 

The entire premise of the thread is flawed.

 

I am critical of the Bible, but I'm also critical of the Sutras, the Qua'ran, or any other spiritual text. I don't treat Christian beliefs any different than any other spiritual beliefs.

 

Why do you? How exactly are you so sure that you've got it right when they've got it wrong? Their claims of experience, miracles, and speaking to their spirits and deities are no different than the Christians. They can easily match any claims you might make about your own spiritual experiences.

 

So what makes them so wrong exactly? Why is your God correct, and why should I consider him above any other God? What evidence do you have that they do not?

 

Personal anecdotes don't work, because they have them as well. What can you come up with that couldn't be matched by any other religion?

 

What is it that makes your God so different? Why is he special?

 

Personal experience and feelings don't amount to much, because they all make the exact same kinds of claims too.

 

Why should I take your claims any more seriously than theirs?

 

The whole opening argument seems to be a straw man that misrepresents exactly what it is we're critical of.

 

Being critical of the contents of the Illiad and the Odyssey doesn't make me critical of Zeus. No more than criticizing Harry Potter makes me critical of Lord Voldemort, or being Critical of The Lord of the Rings makes me critical of Lord Sauron. Why is the Bible different?

 

It's not. Being critical of literature is not the same thing as criticizing the characters within it.

 

There isn't anything wrong with critical thinking. You should question the validity of anything, including the basis of spiritual beliefs.

 

Only idiots and con artists paint criticism of their claims as a bad thing. It's bad for them when people question their claims and try to use rational thinking to question what supports them.

 

Rational thinking and questioning of the basis of anything isn't a bad thing.

 

Asking for evidence to support claims is not a negative quality in a person, but rather makes for a more intelligent and rational discussion.

 

Deflecting such questions and using irrelevant or irrational assertions in place of answers is a sign of weakness in the claims or beliefs being discussed. If the argument fails to stand up to criticism, there's no reason to believe that it's true.

 

I've yet to see any Christian arguments for spiritual claims stand up to criticism. The basis of apologetics is deflection and misdirection, not providing evidence or rational answers to difficult questions.

 

Throughout this entire thread, all I've seen is exactly that, deflection and misdirection. Using only quotes from a questionable sources with no corroborative backing or supportive evidence.

 

Your answers seem to be little more than 'this is what the Bible says' with no rational reason why we should think it's correct, or 'this is my opinion' with no supportive evidence indicating why we should respect that opinion.

 

One should always remember that not every idea is equally valid and worthy of respect, and that we must simply tolerate the opinions of others, and have no obligation to respect them or consider them valid without good reason.

 

You've yet to actually supply any good reasons here to validate your claims or support your opinions.

 

So, why should we believe you over everyone else? What more do you have over the claims of other spiritual beliefs that makes yours so special exactly?

 

You happen to like the characters more? You think more of their motivations?

 

Near as I can tell, that's the entire basis of your belief. You like Jesus, and consider his sacrifice noble.

 

I happen to find the book poorly written and the characters rather one dimensional I didn't care for the motivations, nor did I find the contents particularly noble. At least, not without twisting them out of context and interpolating meaning that was never really present into them.

 

I fail to see any compelling reasoning in your argument here. It's just not convincing to anyone who isn't already a fan of the Jewish myths your faith is based on.

 

You've got no backing for your claims. It's just a lot of bald assertions and interpolations. I really can't take it any more seriously than someone telling me what great literature Twilight is.

 

I don't see it. You've not made a compelling argument or provided any evidence that it's the case.

 

You've just made an aggressive assertion based on a misrepresented stance.

 

I really just can't take it seriously and see no reason to accept your claims thus far as having any basis in fact. Why should I?

[Guest Valk0010]

In the bit where you say earth for now

 

can you for a second consider that statement

 

If the earth is just going to come to a end then why be green

 

why not just litter away

 

why not continue discovering things and just become fatalistic for the end of the world

 

I think for these kinds of reasons and more, the idea of end times theology is immoral

 

thumbelina your thoughts

[NotBlinded]

Being critical of the contents of the Illiad and the Odyssey doesn't make me critical of Zeus. No more than criticizing Harry Potter makes me critical of Lord Voldemort, or being Critical of The Lord of the Rings makes me critical of Lord Sauron. Why is the Bible different?

 

It's not. Being critical of literature is not the same thing as criticizing the characters within it.

It's hard for thumb to understand that the God within her book is a literary character. This affects her reasoning abilities with non-believers.

 

This is what happens when one sees characters within a book as if they were real:

[Thumbelina]

Re: Post #282

@Greatest I Am

 

 

 

Question:

"Your view of God is rather narrow. Why does God have to be eternal? Shouldn't he have the power to decide to no longer exist? Why couldn't a created being be eternal? Aren't you a "created being", and do you not believe your soul to be eternal?"

Answer:

Thumbelina: Considering God as being eternal is not "narrow" but the opposite actually. God does not and will NOT do pointless things such as making Himself to not exist. A created being has derived life; it is not self existent and therefore eternal life is contingent on an uncreated being and these uncreated beings are God ( The Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Humans DO NOT HAVE eternal souls. You are a live soul, I am a live soul, Shyone is a live soul and your great, great grandmother is a dead soul and my grandfather is a dead soul and Shyone's great great grandmother is a dead soul. Do you get the picture? A person is a soul and death is a sound, dreamless sleep.

 

 

Question:"Was Jesus not created? Do not give that begotten B S please.

Who came first, the Father or the Son. Scripture says that the Father is to serve the Son so why did Jesus die and not the Father doing His service to the Son?

That would be more biblical."

 

Answer:

Thumbelina: No, Jesus was not created. He is a self existent, eternal being. Only Begotten Son just means He has pre-eminence. The Godhead are powerful and loving and selfless beings and I suppose the biblical writers were inspired to describe them like that so us slow- to- understand humans could relate to the relationship between The Father and The Son.

[Thumbelina]

@ OnceConvinced

Re: Post 287

 

OK, I kinda got sidetracked here and did not continue writing my answer to you and Centauri's posts yet, but I had to tell you off a bit. OnceConvinced, you know I like yas (i.e. you) right? ... but the things you say man and that Michael too and Centauri, nuff said lol.

 

OnceConvinced said: If God was on your side, and you really had his understanding of any of this, you would have us all agreeing with you because your holy spirit wisdom would be so impressive. It just goes to prove that your God is not all it's cracked up to be.

 

Thumbelina: I have been poking around this ws trying to understand what the heck you guys are thinking about the bible and Christianity and boy oh boy it sure is convoluted. Babylon has infected you all with her wine and no wonder you can't seem to objectively understand what I am trying to say. I do not know how else to convey what the bible teaches to you and Centauri without repeating the same thing over and over as Michael says.

 

About this: "your holy spirit wisdom would be so impressive ...", is this some sort of fundamentalist TRADITION or something? I don't get it. THE BIBLE says that the wheat and the tares grow together UNTIL the harvest!!! "Darnel is a weed grass (probably bearded darnel or Lolium temulentum) that looks very much like wheat until it is mature, when the seeds reveal a great difference. Darnel seeds aren't good for much except as chicken feed or to burn to prevent the spread of this weed" (World English Dictionary).

 

Only God can discern the thoughts and intents of a person's heart and be their judge, that's why He allows us and the devils to act our parts until the end of the age. He's allowing our characters to show themselves. Also, Jesus was Emmanuel, God with us and did you NOT read what the people did to Him? They were more interested in His miracles and NOT the truth, even Judas did that. The bible says ... An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;... . I keep saying God does not want any timeservers or a bunch of Judases in heaven.

 

Another thing, you are critiquing the bible and God and His followers but the bible says in 1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." which means:

 

People's New Testament

"2:15 He that is spiritual. He who lives the spiritual life.

Judgeth all things. Examineth, in the margin of the Revised Version. The spiritual man, helped by the indwelling Spirit, is prepared to study the deeper truths of the Spirit.

Yet he himself is judged of no man. None who are not spiritual are able to sit in judgment upon his higher life. He is on a higher level, and the animal man, from his lower level, cannot well estimate him."

or

Wesley's Notes

"2:15 But the spiritual man - He that hath the Spirit. Discerneth all the things of God whereof we have been speaking. Yet he himself is discerned by no man - No natural men. They neither understand what he is, nor what he says."

 

Nonbelievers should be the last people on this whole green earth to try to determine a believers relationship with God.