To All Of God's Critics

[Thumbelina]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

 

 

 

 

They returned to dust. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

 

"The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.

 

 

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls.

 

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

 

The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

 

 

The Bible Says

After death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

 

 

 

People do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day.

"All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28, 29. "David ... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. "If I wait, the grave is mine house." Job 17:13.

[Thumbelina]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

FWIW, I was always taught there was a temporary waiting spot for those people to wait for judgment or redemption.

 

 

Hey sweetie pie I hope we're cool, I did not come back to this thread for a while and I'm sorry you felt insulted by what I said but I don't like atheISM (grrr) and your professor's attitude was bugging me and I don't even know him/her I find atheISTS interesting though

 

The temporary waiting spot is the grave.

[dethl]

Then you are worse then the devils. Well, it's good that you're doing good, therefore I don't have to worry like I do about a certain other lion.

So he's worse than the fictional characters in your Big Book O' Myths? Oh noes!

[dethl]

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

FWIW, I was always taught there was a temporary waiting spot for those people to wait for judgment or redemption.

 

 

Hey sweetie pie I hope we're cool, I did not come back to this thread for a while and I'm sorry you felt insulted by what I said but I don't like atheISM (grrr) and your professor's attitude was bugging me and I don't even know him/her I find atheISTS interesting though

 

The temporary waiting spot is the grave.

 

For Jews the temporary waiting spot is Sheol/Gehenna and then heaven until the Messianic Age - they they come back to life and rock it out with God for all eternity.

 

Atheism is merely a term to show the contrast against Theism. Just because we refuse to believe doesn't mean that Atheism is a belief system - on the contrary it's a rejection of belief. You don't believe in Thor, Zeus, Pan, Ra, etc....you're an Atheist in regards to those gods. Those of us on Ex-C take it a step further and include the Abrahamic God. When you finally understand why it is you refuse to believe in the other gods, you'll understand why we refuse to believe in yours.

[The Seeker]

Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings:

 

1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?

2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?

3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation?

4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules?

 

Here's a thought.

 

1.- I would re-create myself over and over in millions of different species and forms, each of them showing a side of me, all of them myself.

2.- Complete free will since that wouldn't stop me from carrying on the masterplan of life, and since them (I) require it to live.

3.- I can't hurt myself. The beings in question, on the other hand, would have to physically hurt themselves to survive, but that's still part of the Masterplan.

4.- The only rules existing are the ones that govern the universe in which this representations of myself exist, and they're not able to break them no matter what, so the question does not apply.

[The Seeker]

Wait.. where I typed "hurt themselves" I meant each other, not themselves.

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

 

 

 

 

They returned to dust. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

 

"The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.

 

 

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls.

 

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

 

The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

 

 

The Bible Says

After death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

 

 

 

People do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day.

"All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28, 29. "David ... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. "If I wait, the grave is mine house." Job 17:13.

 

Those are mostly OT quotes, and take a good look at them. The OT concept was indeed that the dead are simply buried. The supposed reward for godliness was long life and wealth, while the punishment for the wicked was death. It's in the NT that we get the concept of eternal life for the righteous, and not until the latter half of the NT writings (chronologically speaking) that we get claims of eternal torture for the wicked.

 

You see, Thumby, your religion has EVOLVED over time. It's a MAN-MADE CONSTRUCT that was INFLUENCED by the cultures it was developed in, and NOTHING MORE!

 

And, as a side note, if someone sent you a bunch of Koran quotes, would it make you believe Islam? Of course not! Likewise, your use of Bible quotes is not going to make us believe Christianity. Period.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

FWIW, I was always taught there was a temporary waiting spot for those people to wait for judgment or redemption.

 

 

Hey sweetie pie I hope we're cool, I did not come back to this thread for a while and I'm sorry you felt insulted by what I said but I don't like atheISM (grrr) and your professor's attitude was bugging me and I don't even know him/her I find atheISTS interesting though

 

The temporary waiting spot is the grave.

We aren't cool because we never were. But I forgot about the whole thing, so if it means anything, don't worry about it

 

You still have yet to prove that a contradiction or a paradox can be a perfect quality?

[★ Citsonga ★]

I don't like atheISM (grrr)....

 

I find atheISTS interesting though

 

Why the emphasis on "ism" and "ists"? Are you insinuating that the construction of the words makes the view incorrect?

 

What about creationISM and creationISTS? Does having "ism" and "ists" on those words automatically make that view incorrect?

[Crazy Donna]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

 

 

 

 

They returned to dust. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

 

"The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.

 

 

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls.

 

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

 

The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

 

 

The Bible Says

After death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

 

People do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day.

"All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28, 29. "David ... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. "If I wait, the grave is mine house." Job 17:13.

So here you say a soul is a living being. But then in the other thread, "Question for the Christians", you posted this:

 

"Hi Snakefoot, b is correct, only God has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16) and the immortality of created beings is a GIFT bestowed by God. A live baby is a live soul and a dead baby is a dead soul. A soul is a person. Death is creation in reverse (read the Genesis account). The natural immortality of the soul came from paganism and Greek mythology; something most of Christendom did not ditch after they escaped the horrors of the middle (dark) ages."

 

So a soul is a living being -- a body plus breath. But then in another thread, a soul can be dead, so by definition, not breathing. So a soul is whatever you define it to be in whatever thread you're posting in so you can look like you know what you're talking about. That's very convenient for you. You just tell us whatever pops into your head that suits your agenda at the time.

 

Just another example of you making this shit up as you go along? What bible verses do you base these bizarre ideas on?

 

Now, you're telling us that at death we cease to exist, and return to dust. So does that mean you don't go to heaven now? Is heaven too inconvenient for your current argument? First you're telling us that we're going to burn in hell, and now you're telling us that we'll cease to exist when we die? Wow, that's handy.

 

You need to stop making stuff up, Thumb. You can't even get christianity right. You have to just make it up as you go along because it's too hard for you to know what you're talking about.

[Thumbelina]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

FWIW, I was always taught there was a temporary waiting spot for those people to wait for judgment or redemption.

 

 

Hey sweetie pie I hope we're cool, I did not come back to this thread for a while and I'm sorry you felt insulted by what I said but I don't like atheISM (grrr) and your professor's attitude was bugging me and I don't even know him/her I find atheISTS interesting though

 

The temporary waiting spot is the grave.

We aren't cool because we never were. But I forgot about the whole thing, so if it means anything, don't worry about it

 

You still have yet to prove that a contradiction or a paradox can be a perfect quality?

 

 

 

Valk: We aren't cool because we never were.

 

Thumbelina: Uh, sweetie pie where's the sweet? I meant that you are or seem to be a deferential sort of fellow, you have the ability to disagree with someone without being disagreeable

 

 

Valk: But I forgot about the whole thing, so if it means anything, don't worry about it

 

Thumbelina: *smile* this is why I say you can be deferential. Not only that, you tend to open up a whole can of worms that leads interesting discussions. I'm learning more about people by conversing with folks such as yourself. Eg. when you told me that I think that gays are abomination, I was wondering what the heck you were talking about; I thought you were trying to put words in my mouth so you can then clobber me. So, recently I came to find out that certain Christians believe that; I was having a phone conversation with a fellow believer - not of the same community of faith as me though- and I had mentioned that I was highly upset with the insensitivity shown to the gay guy who was video taped and who then committed suicide and to my utter shock this person spoke as if the guy deserved that so then I understood what you were talking about.

 

The thing is, the bible doesn't teach that, it teaches that God LOVES sinners but hates the sin. If Christians spew hate at other people then they are disobeying God. Hate falls into the same category of sin as murder. Also, a sinner CANNOT condemn another sinner; in the OT when people were stoned it was when they were under a theocracy and it was to preserve the lineage of the Anointed One. Judgment belongs to God. God says we can be angry and sin NOT. Matthew 5:22 also says: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

Valk: You still have yet to prove that a contradiction or a paradox can be a perfect quality?

 

Thumbelina: I did give you a definition for a paradox and I did say it can mean irony but since you forgot I'll just do it again.

Paradox:

1. A SEEMINGLY contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.

2. One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: "The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears" (Mary Shelley).

3. An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.

4. A statement contrary to received opinion.

 

As I keep saying, we do not have God's perspective. This past weekend the person who gave the sermon at church said something that I agree with. He said that God unfolds our lives like scrolls but we just want a blueprint; God wants to transform us and He does it little by little.

 

God can use the weak things of this world to confound the wise for man's wisdom is FOOLISHNESS to God. There's an ex atheist preacher whom I like to listen to and he once mentioned that there was an illiterate man who came in to the church and he wanted to give bible studies so what he did was get someone to underline all the important passages and what the man did was he went to educated people and he let them read it and he was winning them to Christ lol. I hope the church made sure that dude learned to read though.

 

My local Pastor had a similar story to tell about His mother, though his mother was literate. There are some prophecies in the bible where you have to know some math to calculate the times and so forth and for some folk it is hard to comprehend that and the pastor's mother was one of those. She did not let that stop her, she had a chart and let the people read the chart and they were understanding it It's the Holy Spirit that brings the truth to WILLING hearts; It's about, I WILL and not only IQ. The most learned theologians in Jesus' day were like puffed up wheat and they wanted Him murdered so they can hold on to their prIde, see? "I" is the middle letter in the word pride. God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1 Peter5:5. The Gospel is hidden to the prideful and that can include church folk.

[Crazy Donna]

 

I don't fear hell. Hell does not exist YET.

 

 

Thumbelina,

 

If hell does not yet exist, where are all un-saved people that have died in the past few thousand years?

 

I'm curious.

FWIW, I was always taught there was a temporary waiting spot for those people to wait for judgment or redemption.

 

 

Hey sweetie pie I hope we're cool, I did not come back to this thread for a while and I'm sorry you felt insulted by what I said but I don't like atheISM (grrr) and your professor's attitude was bugging me and I don't even know him/her I find atheISTS interesting though

 

The temporary waiting spot is the grave.

We aren't cool because we never were. But I forgot about the whole thing, so if it means anything, don't worry about it

 

You still have yet to prove that a contradiction or a paradox can be a perfect quality?

 

 

 

Valk: We aren't cool because we never were.

 

Thumbelina: Uh, sweetie pie where's the sweet? I meant that you are or seem to be a deferential sort of fellow, you have the ability to disagree with someone without being disagreeable

 

 

Valk: But I forgot about the whole thing, so if it means anything, don't worry about it

 

Thumbelina: *smile* this is why I say you can be deferential. Not only that, you tend to open up a whole can of worms that leads interesting discussions. I'm learning more about people by conversing with folks such as yourself. Eg. when you told me that I think that gays are abomination, I was wondering what the heck you were talking about; I thought you were trying to put words in my mouth so you can then clobber me. So, recently I came to find out that certain Christians believe that; I was having a phone conversation with a fellow believer - not of the same community of faith as me though- and I had mentioned that I was highly upset with the insensitivity shown to the gay guy who was video taped and who then committed suicide and to my utter shock this person spoke as if the guy deserved that so then I understood what you were talking about.

 

The thing is, the bible doesn't teach that, it teaches that God LOVES sinners but hates the sin. If Christians spew hate at other people then they are disobeying God. Hate falls into the same category of sin as murder. Also, a sinner CANNOT condemn another sinner; in the OT when people were stoned it was when they were under a theocracy and it was to preserve the lineage of the Anointed One. Judgment belongs to God. God says we can be angry and sin NOT. Matthew 5:22 also says: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

Valk: You still have yet to prove that a contradiction or a paradox can be a perfect quality?

 

Thumbelina: I did give you a definition for a paradox and I did say it can mean irony but since you forgot I'll just do it again.

Paradox:

1. A SEEMINGLY contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.

2. One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: "The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears" (Mary Shelley).

3. An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.

4. A statement contrary to received opinion.

 

As I keep saying, we do not have God's perspective. This past weekend the person who gave the sermon at church said something that I agree with. He said that God unfolds our lives like scrolls but we just want a blueprint; God wants to transform us and He does it little by little.

 

God can use the weak things of this world to confound the wise for man's wisdom is FOOLISHNESS to God. There's an ex atheist preacher whom I like to listen to and he once mentioned that there was an illiterate man who came in to the church and he wanted to give bible studies so what he did was get someone to underline all the important passages and what the man did was he went to educated people and he let them read it and he was winning them to Christ lol. I hope the church made sure that dude learned to read though.

 

My local Pastor had a similar story to tell about His mother, though his mother was literate. There are some prophecies in the bible where you have to know some math to calculate the times and so forth and for some folk it is hard to comprehend that and the pastor's mother was one of those. She did not let that stop her, she had a chart and let the people read the chart and they were understanding it It's the Holy Spirit that brings the truth to WILLING hearts; It's about, I WILL and not only IQ. The most learned theologians in Jesus' day were like puffed up wheat and they wanted Him murdered so they can hold on to their prIde, see? "I" is the middle letter in the word pride. God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1 Peter5:5. The Gospel is hidden to the prideful and that can include church folk.

Why don't you stop telling us quaint little anecdotes laced with your own opinions, and actually start explaining how we are wrong about christianity using cohesive arguments. You just blame nonbelievers for their nonbelief, and conveniently relieve yourself of any burden that involves thought. Accusing non christians of being 'prideful' is just a thought terminating cliche so that you don't have to put any effort into evangelism, or feel any compassion for others.

 

You say god resisteth the proud and giveth grace to the humble. Well, you're not getting any share of the pie, dumbarse.

[Guest Valk0010]

How can you love someone for something there not, if your a sinner, its who you are, how can god love something that is not actually there no matter how much primer is put over a dent, there is still a dent.

 

About, the paradoxes, a perfect being wouldn't have a imperfect nature, to be contradictory, even seemingly so is imperfection, and its a human trait. Perfection would only operate in perfect ways. To even come close to being inconsistent wouldn't be allowed.

 

For example, god is a murder and a hypocrite if he exists. He knows he is going to kill, yet doesn't do everything in his all powerful nature to stop that future from according, meanwhile on the same breath saying show not kill. That is a contradiction, its even worse then a paradox, its saying one thing and doing another. All the other issues I brought up like that, that I can recall are him being inconsistent. A perfect god would be consistent. There is nothing seemingly about things like that. You would have better luck with the third definition, but I would argue that a perfect being would make any reference to a paradox, null because of the accepted premises. Irony isn't murder, just as an example.

 

You have ignored all I said I guess, about arguments from ignorance and how appealing to mysterious is not a convincing argument.

 

Yet another reason the jews of jesus time thought jesus was nuts, he contradicted the OT, the homosexual is an abomination deserving of death iirc.

 

Hate the sin, love the sinner ends up in the end, hating the sinner. How can you actually have a relationship with a person that is categorically a abomination according to your religion?

[★ Citsonga ★]

...prIde, see? "I" is the middle letter in the word pride.

 

Well, there's also an "I" in "ThumbelIna," so does that prove something about you?

 

Oh, and "S" is the middle letter in "JeSus," and an "S" looks like a snake, so is "JeSus" a snake?

 

Sorry, but I just had to poke fun. It's quite humorous how christians so often pull out silly little sayings like "'I' is the middle letter in the word pride" as though it somehow proves anything. Sure, it's obvious that prideful people are focused on themselves, but the letter "I" in "prIde" has nothing to do with it and proves absolutely nothing.

 

As another has pointed out, why don't you actually try to prove something with real logic and evidence for a change?

[Guest]

 

The thing is, the bible doesn't teach that, it teaches that God LOVES sinners but hates the sin.

 

 

Bullshit.

 

Leviticus 20:13

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

 

And, before you get all "That was the OLD testament" on me:

 

Matthew 5:18

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."

 

Luke 16:17

"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void."

[Thumbelina]

How can you love someone for something there not, if your a sinner, its who you are, how can god love something that is not actually there no matter how much primer is put over a dent, there is still a dent.

 

About, the paradoxes, a perfect being wouldn't have a imperfect nature, to be contradictory, even seemingly so is imperfection, and its a human trait. Perfection would only operate in perfect ways. To even come close to being inconsistent wouldn't be allowed.

 

For example, god is a murder and a hypocrite if he exists. He knows he is going to kill, yet doesn't do everything in his all powerful nature to stop that future from according, meanwhile on the same breath saying show not kill. That is a contradiction, its even worse then a paradox, its saying one thing and doing another. All the other issues I brought up like that, that I can recall are him being inconsistent. A perfect god would be consistent. There is nothing seemingly about things like that. You would have better luck with the third definition, but I would argue that a perfect being would make any reference to a paradox, null because of the accepted premises. Irony isn't murder, just as an example.

 

You have ignored all I said I guess, about arguments from ignorance and how appealing to mysterious is not a convincing argument.

 

Yet another reason the jews of jesus time thought jesus was nuts, he contradicted the OT, the homosexual is an abomination deserving of death iirc.

 

Hate the sin, love the sinner ends up in the end, hating the sinner. How can you actually have a relationship with a person that is categorically a abomination according to your religion?

 

 

 

 

Valk: How can you love someone for something there not, if your a sinner, its who you are, how can god love something that is not actually there no matter how much primer is put over a dent, there is still a dent.

 

Thumbelina: God loves us but He hates our sins; our sins separates us from Him (Isa. 59:2). Look, it's like this, picture a man standing next to a monolithic rock and the man thinks He can move that rock by pushing against it with his arms. Well, the rock ain't gonna go anywhere but the man sure will be pushed away. That's how it is with God and us, if we cling to our sins we tend to move away from Him but He so wants us to CHOOSE to come to Him.

 

Valk: About, the paradoxes, a perfect being wouldn't have a imperfect nature, to be contradictory, even seemingly so is imperfection, and its a human trait. Perfection would only operate in perfect ways. To even come close to being inconsistent wouldn't be allowed.

 

Thumbelina: God is perfect but He is dealing with imperfect beings so the fault is with us and not Him. He uses reverse psychology and it works; His goal is to save as many as He can without violating their free will.

 

Hey, check out this song:

.

Ah, Valk lion, spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the man who is not spiritual cannot understand God's word which tells of His love.

 

Valk: For example, god is a murder and a hypocrite if he exists. He knows he is going to kill, yet doesn't do everything in his all powerful nature to stop that future from according, meanwhile on the same breath saying show not kill. That is a contradiction, its even worse then a paradox, its saying one thing and doing another.

 

Thumbelina: God is good and perfect and wonderful and kind and gentle and JUST. Everyone who will die in hell will end up committing suicide, it is no ones fault but their own. It's like a rebellious child who was raised in a good home with good values and who then chooses to get mixed up in a life of alcohol and drugs and who then drove their car while intoxicated and subsequently wrapped their car around a tree and is killed by the impact, is the parent to blame or did they chose to do things that will cause their demise?

 

Actually, drunk is what the bible describes the inhabitants of this world as being, we were/are all sloshed and the ONLY way to get sober is to cry Abba Father (through Jesus i.e.) and God's word in conjunction with the Holy Spirit will sober us up.

 

All murder is killing but not all killing is murder. The secular government kills (ahem, kills not murders) vile criminals (murderers) who are menaces to society and who are dangerous to humanity. The essence of murder is that there must be meditation AND malice and God is NEVER malicious and He just KNOWS everything. The wicked will be turned into hell (Psalm 9:17), by clinging to their sins they will then be consumed/destroyed, never to exist anymore

 

Sweetie pie? Have you seen parents who do not discipline their children? They create monsters! God has to have laws and the wages of sin is death (not dying and dying and dying infinitely, humph)! God is orderly and He does not want His universe to be run like an anarchy. This planet is having a temporary experiment with anarchy and all I can say is God was right, He was RIIIIIGHT!!!!!

 

 

Valk: All the other issues I brought up like that, that I can recall are him being inconsistent. A perfect god would be consistent. There is nothing seemingly about things like that. You would have better luck with the third definition, but I would argue that a perfect being would make any reference to a paradox, null because of the accepted premises. Irony isn't murder, just as an example.

 

God is consistent! He's consistently good and merciful and JUST (Ex.34:6-7). It is people who wrest the scriptures out of context and they wrongly divide the Word.

 

 

 

 

Valk: You have ignored all I said I guess, about arguments from ignorance and how appealing to mysterious is not a convincing argument.

 

Thumbelina: I probably did; I lose track of some of these things. Look, I have had my experiences with God and HE IS REAL. What I see all over the net is a lot of cleverly devised fables that are couched in philosophical and "scientific" language but their aim is to do what the devil did and does, which is to try to undermine God's authority and to lead others to do the opposite of what God wants which is this: 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

They deify "reason" and knowledge because ol' Luci' (Lucifer) promised them that they can be as gods and they fell for it hook, line and sinker. What they don't know is they think they are swimming in a beautiful olympic-sized swimming pool but they are really swimming in the borg of eternal stench, peee-eeeew (*mini rant*) Though I do think some of those people are really talented but they are wasting their talents for ol' Luci'.

 

Valk: Yet another reason the jews of jesus time thought jesus was nuts, he contradicted the OT, the homosexual is an abomination deserving of death iirc.

 

 

Thumbelina: Those Jews were the ones that were nuts, they, like a lot of atheists, were suffering from cognitive dissonance. They were putting their FINITE reasoning above God's word and their PRIDE prevented them from understanding the scripture; they had hard hearts. However, there were many Jews who converted to Christianity, albeit they were the minority. Heh heh, so there is hope of getting potential converts from the camp of the atheists; what? We don't want our fellow man to die.

 

Hon'? ALL OF US DESERVE DEATH but God IS gracious (see John3:16) Big sins, little sins, all sin will cause folk to lose out on eternal life. Jesus incarnate's function was this: John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

In the heavenly sanctuary He will take up the role as judge but check this out He will be our judge and He is/will be our defense attorney too, all we have to do is go to Him and PERMIT (ahem, free will) Him to transform us and we are in!

 

 

 

Valk: Hate the sin, love the sinner ends up in the end, hating the sinner.

 

Thumbelina: Only if God is not in it; our role is not to judge/condemn others. God will judge; we are to speak the truth and yet show forth God's grace and forgiveness to others.

 

Valk: How can you actually have a relationship with a person that is categorically a abomination according to your religion?

 

Thumbelina: Humanly speaking, it is an impossibility but that is where the gift of grace comes in. One acknowledges God as creator, redeemer and ruler of ones life and one asks Him to impart His power to us so we may love others, even those who disagree with us or even hate us. I'm finding some wonderful atheistic types on the net-don't really know any in person-- and my reaction is basically " awwwwww, they are so nice (some are not so nice but they're funny), so why the heck can't they find God?" I like them although I don't agree with their world view. Sinners are human and we all are sinners and we all have felt needs.

[par4dcourse]

What I see all over the net is a lot of cleverly devised fables that are couched in philosophical and "scientific" language

How dare we use science, logic, and reason, when all the world really needs is a big "god loves u" hug from Thumby. I feel so warm an fuzzy reading the above that I just want to fuckin' puke.

[Guest Valk0010]

Thumbelina: God loves us but He hates our sins; our sins separates us from Him (Isa. 59:2). Look, it's like this, picture a man standing next to a monolithic rock and the man thinks He can move that rock by pushing against it with his arms. Well, the rock ain't gonna go anywhere but the man sure will be pushed away. That's how it is with God and us, if we cling to our sins we tend to move away from Him but He so wants us to CHOOSE to come to Him.

You can't say for example, you love a black man, but don't like his skin and try to separate his skin from his being, he a black guy and if you don't like black people, your going to see him as being black and your not going to like it. God and sin is like the same thing, we are the black people and the sins are the color of our skin.

 

Thumbelina: God is perfect but He is dealing with imperfect beings so the fault is with us and not Him. He uses reverse psychology and it works; His goal is to save as many as He can without violating their free will.

Great way to completely ignore my point. And who says reverse psychology is automatically wrong, or imperfect etc.

 

Ah, Valk lion, spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the man who is not spiritual cannot understand God's word which tells of His love.

So the man that believes in it before trying to understanding it can understand it, but the person who wants to understand before he could believe in it is screwed.

 

 

 

 

All murder is killing but not all killing is murder. The secular government kills (ahem, kills not murders) vile criminals (murderers) who are menaces to society and who are dangerous to humanity. The essence of murder is that there must be meditation AND malice and God is NEVER malicious and He just KNOWS everything. The wicked will be turned into hell (Psalm 9:17), by clinging to their sins they will then be consumed/destroyed, never to exist anymore

So its not malice, to know your going to end there life, and your going to set the world up, so they end up in that suitation so you have to kill them. Its the exact opposite of being all loving. Its...evil.

 

Sweetie pie? Have you seen parents who do not discipline their children? They create monsters! God has to have laws and the wages of sin is death (not dying and dying and dying infinitely, humph)! God is orderly and He does not want His universe to be run like an anarchy. This planet is having a temporary experiment with anarchy and all I can say is God was right, He was RIIIIIGHT!!!!!

So the bronze age is a better idea.

 

 

 

 

God is consistent! He's consistently good and merciful and JUST (Ex.34:6-7). It is people who wrest the scriptures out of context and they wrongly divide the Word.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I probably did; I lose track of some of these things. Look, I have had my experiences with God and HE IS REAL. What I see all over the net is a lot of cleverly devised fables that are couched in philosophical and "scientific" language but their aim is to do what the devil did and does, which is to try to undermine God's authority and to lead others to do the opposite of what God wants which is this: 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

They deify "reason" and knowledge because ol' Luci' (Lucifer) promised them that they can be as gods and they fell for it hook, line and sinker. What they don't know is they think they are swimming in a beautiful olympic-sized swimming pool but they are really swimming in the borg of eternal stench, peee-eeeew (*mini rant*) Though I do think some of those people are really talented but they are wasting their talents for ol' Luci'.

What do you intent to accomplish by saying that. And also it seems as soon as I rock your boat you pull the experience card.

 

 

were suffering from cognitive dissonance. They were putting their FINITE reasoning above God's word and their PRIDE prevented them from understanding the scripture; they had hard hearts.

 

Now I remeber, homosexuality was a crime worth execution iirc, stoning sounds about right. Either way Leviticus 18:22 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Also so not using our reasoning to understand god is any better, hell no. They were doing there job, sins like homosexuality under OT, are beyond repentance, they are deserving of a death sentence. A unchanging god, would mean that jesus wanted homosexuals to die as well so he contradicted the OT.

 

 

Thumbelina: Humanly speaking, it is an impossibility but that is where the gift of grace comes in. One acknowledges God as creator, redeemer and ruler of ones life and one asks Him to impart His power to us so we may love others, even those who disagree with us or even hate us. I'm finding some wonderful atheistic types on the net-don't really know any in person-- and my reaction is basically " awwwwww, they are so nice (some are not so nice but they're funny), so why the heck can't they find God?" I like them although I don't agree with their world view. Sinners are human and we all are sinners and we all have felt needs.

There is a difference between idealism and action, the whole god's grace thing is idealism.

[Thumbelina]

What I see all over the net is a lot of cleverly devised fables that are couched in philosophical and "scientific" language

How dare we use science, logic, and reason, when all the world really needs is a big "god loves u" hug from Thumby. I feel so warm an fuzzy reading the above that I just want to fuckin' puke.

 

It's only bad when God is thrown out completely. So does that mean if I give you a virtual hug you're gonna bite my virtual ear off; sort of like what Tyson did to Evander Holyfield? There's a chef dude who used to be around here that I wanted to hug but he disappeared; maybe he would have bit my ear off, who knows. I still love you and there's nothing you can do about that

[Guest Broken Chains]

I find it humorous that there are so many people running around telling people conflicting ideas about what God says, what God thinks, what God did, what God will do. Here's a bright idea.... let God speak for himself and see where that goes.

[Guest Valk0010]

I find it humorous that there are so many people running around telling people conflicting ideas about what God says, what God thinks, what God did, what God will do. Here's a bright idea.... let God speak for himself and see where that goes.

That is because its everybody in the world trying to explain the world in its own way.

[Guest Broken Chains]

I find it humorous that there are so many people running around telling people conflicting ideas about what God says, what God thinks, what God did, what God will do. Here's a bright idea.... let God speak for himself and see where that goes.

That is because its everybody in the world trying to explain the world in its own way.

 

I know. I'm just talking about religious people who tell everyone what God says, thinks, etc. as if God is mute.

[Guest Valk0010]

I find it humorous that there are so many people running around telling people conflicting ideas about what God says, what God thinks, what God did, what God will do. Here's a bright idea.... let God speak for himself and see where that goes.

That is because its everybody in the world trying to explain the world in its own way.

 

I know. I'm just talking about religious people who tell everyone what God says, thinks, etc. as if God is mute.

I know, good point as well, i just wanted to make that jab at the christian who started this thread.

[Thumbelina]

I find it humorous that there are so many people running around telling people conflicting ideas about what God says, what God thinks, what God did, what God will do. Here's a bright idea.... let God speak for himself and see where that goes.

That is because its everybody in the world trying to explain the world in its own way.

 

I know. I'm just talking about religious people who tell everyone what God says, thinks, etc. as if God is mute.

 

 

Hey, most of these Ex-Xtians claim that God was mute and they did not hear Him.

[Guest Broken Chains]

I find it humorous that there are so many people running around telling people conflicting ideas about what God says, what God thinks, what God did, what God will do. Here's a bright idea.... let God speak for himself and see where that goes.

That is because its everybody in the world trying to explain the world in its own way.

 

I know. I'm just talking about religious people who tell everyone what God says, thinks, etc. as if God is mute.

 

 

Hey, most of these Ex-Xtians claim that God was mute and they did not hear Him.

 

Do you have any idea what the word "ex-Christian" even means? It means someone who used to be a Christian. In other words, they ceased believing. It's pretty hard for something to be mute if it doesn't exist, right? Get that through your head.