I'm Completely Lost...

[Guest confused idiot]

Just a thought for you CI. At the moment you are more or less paralyzed in an uncomfortable obsessive state, going over the question of the nature or reality of God again and again. As I mentioned in brief before, I found myself in such a state once. I think we are similar in one respect, that we have a hard time letting go and we are capable of directing a great deal of though towards one subject. At some point though you have to ask yourself, regardless of whether it is ultimately true or not, what it means for you. As in with those Christian assertions, what can be done with them? To me they became irrelevant, what amounts to a second hand rumor and I cannot base my life on such. Of course there are the fears of damnation or spiritual influence or just being on God's bad side, like you mentioned going through. But what of them? You cannot be sure of any of that, all you can do alone is live your life well and with integrity. God, real or not, as the Christians or Deists or Pantheists describe can do little for you.

 

In other words I'm pretty much nuts. I don't even know. In my mind, it's pretty much like "This stuff is probably real, I'm probably lying to myself." Or maybe I'm just that brainwashed. The stupid thing is, I'm 100% to blame for that. My parents didn't brainwash me to believe like I do. No church did either. I did this to myself by reading a bunch of extremist religious websites and watching some people's videos for a while. Doing that ruined me. Now I can't get it all out of my head. Everything I've read, everything I've watched, everything I've listened to. It ruined me. Whether the Bible is true or not, that's not the point. The point is, even if it is true, I can't do this, I can't be this, I can't live like this. It kills me inside, it fuels a deep depression that it rooted itself. I can't control the way I see things. If something does this to me, that's just the way it is. If religion makes me depressed, that's just the way it is. I didn't choose to bring that upon myself. It all started with pure motives. Pure motives to live for God. I wanted to please God with my life, and somehow that all turned into this. Not my fault. I've prayed for my perceptions to change and fo the religious depression and anxiety to be lifted. It hasn't. I've even went as far as to pray "I'm not asking you to magically take my problems away and make my path easy. All I'm asking is that you give me the wisdom and strength to handle whatever it is that I'm facing."

 

confused said: Hell no. What do you think I'm doing, lying? For Jesus?

====================================================

no i dont think that, but those jesuits will do anything for their god. the thought just ran thru my mind for a split second. so i just threw that out here for a little humor.

 

you know something confused? you did accomplish one thing though, youre no longer a christian. i mean this is the "EX-CHRISTIAN" website" so go figure..........

 

I thought you were serious. People that will go as far as to wilfully LIE in the name of their god make me sick. So many things that are done in the name of God, whether it be Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Zeus, or whoever, are flat out wrong. Evil, even.

 

Yeah, technically I can't call myself a Christian anymore. But I still can't fully let go either.

[Guest Valk0010]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

If your miserable and it doesn't make sense why believe it?

 

Step back, after you get that far, and then look at it objectivaly

 

emotions cloud judgement

[Guest confused idiot]

God dammit, I'm pissed off. I'm fucked up in the head. This thing is so much bigger than religion. I mostly know what the problem is, but I can't explain it. I need a fucking shrink. Shit, after I'm done talking to one, he'll probably need his own shrink to talk to. Fuck this!

[Guest confused idiot]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

[Guest Valk0010]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

[Guest Valk0010]

God dammit, I'm pissed off. I'm fucked up in the head. This thing is so much bigger than religion. I mostly know what the problem is, but I can't explain it. I need a fucking shrink. Shit, after I'm done talking to one, he'll probably need his own shrink to talk to. Fuck this!

What if it is something more then religion, what if getting passed religion will get you to be able to deal with what is biiger

[Guest confused idiot]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

God dammit, I'm pissed off. I'm fucked up in the head. This thing is so much bigger than religion. I mostly know what the problem is, but I can't explain it. I need a fucking shrink. Shit, after I'm done talking to one, he'll probably need his own shrink to talk to. Fuck this!

What if it is something more then religion, what if getting passed religion will get you to be able to deal with what is biiger

 

Yes. Or even the other way around.

[Guest Valk0010]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

 

well if its not moral what religion is doing, how is religion worth following.

 

just chew on that for a bit, might have interesting results with your conclusion

[Guest Valk0010]

By the way your not crazy, that defeatism doesn't help anybody particularly yourself

[Guest Valk0010]

Here is a question

 

What do you have to benefit in this life, by believing in a god?

 

In the last eight months or so of when I was a christian, I answered that question by I didn't need it. Looking back that is a very profound thing, because, if you don't need it in this life why bother outside of the idea of hell.

 

In my opinion, hell is a method of control, and a way for backwards stone age people to be comforted in experience of dealing with bad people.

[Guest confused idiot]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

 

well if its not moral what religion is doing, how is religion worth following.

 

just chew on that for a bit, might have interesting results with your conclusion

 

I don't think religion is worth following anymore.

[Guest Valk0010]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

 

well if its not moral what religion is doing, how is religion worth following.

 

just chew on that for a bit, might have interesting results with your conclusion

 

I don't think religion is worth following anymore.

then don't

 

you have enough reasons

 

if you truely think that then don't

[Guest confused idiot]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

 

well if its not moral what religion is doing, how is religion worth following.

 

just chew on that for a bit, might have interesting results with your conclusion

 

I don't think religion is worth following anymore.

then don't

 

you have enough reasons

 

if you truely think that then don't

 

Ok. I guess I'm through with it. Or maybe not. I can say "I'm done with religion" all I want (and I have), that's the easy part. The tough part is breaking the mindset.

[Guest Valk0010]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

 

well if its not moral what religion is doing, how is religion worth following.

 

just chew on that for a bit, might have interesting results with your conclusion

 

I don't think religion is worth following anymore.

then don't

 

you have enough reasons

 

if you truely think that then don't

 

Ok. I guess I'm through with it. Or maybe not. I can say "I'm done with religion" all I want (and I have), that's the easy part. The tough part is breaking the mindset.

Now that is a hardpart, breaking the indoctrination is another story

 

My best advice is to think about it all, in the most critical and unbias and openminded way possible.

 

After that it gets easier, slowly things like the fear of hell goes away and all.

 

Good luck to ya

 

The key is if your done, and you feel you got no good reason to be a christian, be sure to truely believe that, because flim flaming around isn't good for your own wellbeing.

[VoiceOnWater]

CI, your intense emotional state is not uncommon. A lot of us went through something similar. It's momentum for growth that sucks at the time.

You won't find relief all at once, but you can move toward it one thing at a time, adding up over time.

 

If watching videos got you into this, then watching other ones should be able to help you out.

This is just an example and it may not work for you, but you could possibly work with it in a way that does work for you.

One of the things that helped for me was studying neutral subjects like geometry, math, language, things like that. It's what you focus on. Music or expressive form may be a way for you to channel your energy excesses presently stored up into something that will be good for you or at least that you can work with to better yourself. With less focus on what troubles you now, it will become less significant.

Focus is everything. Pouring all of your energy into circular dilemma and downward spirals is focus. So don't do that. Do something else.

Focus on listening to others for a while (in person, i mean, not on the Internet). Experiment with having conversations with someone you don't know and letting them do most of the talking, then ask them even more about them.

[Guest confused idiot]

Is religion designed to make you miserable, even Peter and Paul rejoiced in religion.

 

I think that the harm it is causing you is getting to the point where truth becomes irrelevant.

 

Your in hell as it is.

 

Is that justice? Is that morality?

 

Yeah, exactly. Christians, especially in the Bible, talk about the overwhelming joy to be found in Christianity. WTF? This shit is depressing.

If it is causing misery how is that moraility

 

I don't know, my head is too clouded right now to even know how to answer that. I guess it's not.

 

 

well if its not moral what religion is doing, how is religion worth following.

 

just chew on that for a bit, might have interesting results with your conclusion

 

I don't think religion is worth following anymore.

then don't

 

you have enough reasons

 

if you truely think that then don't

 

Ok. I guess I'm through with it. Or maybe not. I can say "I'm done with religion" all I want (and I have), that's the easy part. The tough part is breaking the mindset.

Now that is a hardpart, breaking the indoctrination is another story

 

My best advice is to think about it all, in the most critical and unbias and openminded way possible.

 

After that it gets easier, slowly things like the fear of hell goes away and all.

 

Good luck to ya

 

The key is if your done, and you feel you got no good reason to be a christian, be sure to truely believe that, because flim flaming around isn't good for your own wellbeing.

 

"My best advice is to think about it all, in the most critical and unbias and openminded way possible."

 

But there are so many loopholes and ways out of arguments that you can't really know anything. A Christian can say one thing, then an atheist counter it with something else, then the Christian counter it back with something else, and it goes on and on and on 'til nobody really knows who the hell is right. Thinking and knowledge about this stuff all seems vain. What's the point. I'd rather just get wasted and not have to think about it.

 

"flim flaming around isn't good for your own wellbeing."

 

Yeah, I hate being like that. Even Jesus said he'd rather a person be cold than lukewarm. Why can't I get this through my head? I'm unable to be a Christian anymore. I'm standing in the middle stressing about stuff that I don't need to be thinking about at this point. The one and only move is obvious, yet I can't get out of this mindfuck.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

"My best advice is to think about it all, in the most critical and unbias and openminded way possible."

 

But there are so many loopholes and ways out of arguments that you can't really know anything. A Christian can say one thing, then an atheist counter it with something else, then the Christian counter it back with something else, and it goes on and on and on 'til nobody really knows who the hell is right. Thinking and knowledge about this stuff all seems vain. What's the point. I'd rather just get wasted and not have to think about it.

 

"flim flaming around isn't good for your own wellbeing."

 

Yeah, I hate being like that. Even Jesus said he'd rather a person be cold than lukewarm. Why can't I get this through my head? I'm unable to be a Christian anymore. I'm standing in the middle stressing about stuff that I don't need to be thinking about at this point. The one and only move is obvious, yet I can't get out of this mindfuck.

No one does know for 100 percent certainity that there right

 

I am agnostic personally on the existence of god, that basically means I don't know and you don't either. I see enough evidence to make christianity untrue, but not enough to destroy it or even the christian god. I just know enough to have good reason not to believe it. does that make sense.

 

You need to remain strong, just going out and getting wasted would only makes things worse.

 

thinking=clarity in the end

 

it also takes time to work your way out of the mindfuck, I still am bothered by it even today

[Guest confused idiot]

CI, your intense emotional state is not uncommon. A lot of us went through something similar. It's momentum for growth that sucks at the time.

You won't find relief all at once, but you can move toward it one thing at a time, adding up over time.

 

If watching videos got you into this, then watching other ones should be able to help you out.

This is just an example and it may not work for you, but you could possibly work with it in a way that does work for you.

One of the things that helped for me was studying neutral subjects like geometry, math, language, things like that. It's what you focus on. Music or expressive form may be a way for you to channel your energy excesses presently stored up into something that will be good for you or at least that you can work with to better yourself. With less focus on what troubles you now, it will become less significant.

Focus is everything. Pouring all of your energy into circular dilemma and downward spirals is focus. So don't do that. Do something else.

Focus on listening to others for a while (in person, i mean, not on the Internet). Experiment with having conversations with someone you don't know and letting them do most of the talking, then ask them even more about them.

 

"One of the things that helped for me was studying neutral subjects like geometry, math, language, things like that."

 

That kind of stuff really ain't my cup of tea.... I just can't get interested in it.

 

"Music or expressive form may be a way for you to channel your energy excesses presently stored up into something that will be good for you or at least that you can work with to better yourself."

 

I love music. I feel like it's one of my main passions in life, and that's just one more thing that religion tries to take away. I think I'll pursue that and learn to play guitar. It'll give me a hobby, help me get more involved with something I'm passionate about, and give me less idle thinking time. Three birds with one stone.

 

"Focus on listening to others for a while (in person, i mean, not on the Internet). Experiment with having conversations with someone you don't know and letting them do most of the talking, then ask them even more about them."

 

That's one thing I'm not good at. When I'm alone, I'll feel like I'm ready to argue and defend my points in what I'm talking about, yet when I talk to someone face to face, I listen a little too much, and I end up being more of a pushover when I'm actually trying to be assertive and defensive.

[Guest confused idiot]

(I'm replying this way because there was too much quoted text when I tried to submit my reply)

 

@Valk0010:

 

Agnosticism seems like one of the healthiest and most realistic worldviews a person can have.

[Guest Valk0010]

(I'm replying this way because there was too much quoted text when I tried to submit my reply)

 

@Valk0010:

 

Agnosticism seems like one of the healthiest and most realistic worldviews a person can have.

I agree

 

We can't know.

 

You also can believe in a god without being a christian.

[Guest confused idiot]

(I'm replying this way because there was too much quoted text when I tried to submit my reply)

 

@Valk0010:

 

Agnosticism seems like one of the healthiest and most realistic worldviews a person can have.

I agree

 

We can't know.

 

You also can believe in a god without being a christian.

 

Exactly.

[The-Captain]

In other words I'm pretty much nuts. I don't even know. In my mind, it's pretty much like "This stuff is probably real, I'm probably lying to myself."

 

Nuts? I wouldn't say so, at least not in any real sense. Though the extreme level of self doubt that kind of thing fosters is pretty close. Contrary to what you may think you do have a degree of control in this. You are not ruined, you are just distressed, this can be overcome. Like you said yourself, whatever the truth may be living like that is not good for you. It is not a long term solution, but I would echo the advice of Phanta and recommend that you find something positive to fill your time with and distance yourself from whatever religious indoctrination it is that you can't get your mind off of.

 

I wish you well CI you are going through a difficult time but I truly think that you can get through it.

[Guest Valk0010]

(I'm replying this way because there was too much quoted text when I tried to submit my reply)

 

@Valk0010:

 

Agnosticism seems like one of the healthiest and most realistic worldviews a person can have.

I agree

 

We can't know.

 

You also can believe in a god without being a christian.

 

Exactly.

Well you don't need me for premission on anything

 

A thing that helped me in deconversion, though I came up with it as a christian is that I though about it and decided if christianity is bunk, what is the most accurate wouldview

 

I said deism at the time

 

What is your idea

 

And if your truely done with christianity go with that

[Guest confused idiot]

(I'm replying this way because there was too much quoted text when I tried to submit my reply)

 

@Valk0010:

 

Agnosticism seems like one of the healthiest and most realistic worldviews a person can have.

I agree

 

We can't know.

 

You also can believe in a god without being a christian.

 

Exactly.

Well you don't need me for premission on anything

 

A thing that helped me in deconversion, though I came up with it as a christian is that I though about it and decided if christianity is bunk, what is the most accurate wouldview

 

I said deism at the time

 

What is your idea

 

And if your truely done with christianity go with that

 

I've considered deism before. Never went much beyond that, though.

[Guest Valk0010]

(I'm replying this way because there was too much quoted text when I tried to submit my reply)

 

@Valk0010:

 

Agnosticism seems like one of the healthiest and most realistic worldviews a person can have.

I agree

 

We can't know.

 

You also can believe in a god without being a christian.

 

Exactly.

Well you don't need me for premission on anything

 

A thing that helped me in deconversion, though I came up with it as a christian is that I though about it and decided if christianity is bunk, what is the most accurate wouldview

 

I said deism at the time

 

What is your idea

 

And if your truely done with christianity go with that

 

I've considered deism before. Never went much beyond that, though.

Go with what you think makes the most sense

 

don't debate people of the bat, you need to take time to think and research

 

I suck at debating people as well