I'm Completely Lost...

[NotBlinded]

Enough is enough. I've had it. Fuck this way of thinking. Fuck this way of living. I can't do it anymore.

CI,

 

I hope this means that you have decided to relax and take things slowly. There is no need to hurry and decide anything. Just sit back and give yourself some time. Find something else to do. Go walk in the park or do something you enjoy.

[Guest confused idiot]

Enough is enough. I've had it. Fuck this way of thinking. Fuck this way of living. I can't do it anymore.

CI,

 

I hope this means that you have decided to relax and take things slowly. There is no need to hurry and decide anything. Just sit back and give yourself some time. Find something else to do. Go walk in the park or do something you enjoy.

 

Once I get past Christianity, I will. Until then... I don't think I can. Whether it's the truth or not, I have to make the decision, "am I able to be a Christian?" At the moment, the answer to that question is no. I don't want to bring eternal damnation upon myself, but this is one great big depressive mindfuck that I can't live with anymore. I'm sick of who I am, what religion has turned me into. This long period of anxiety and depression has even manifested itself in my physical health. I'm always weak, shaky, get headaches, dizziness, always pale, have heart palpitations sometimes, have breakouts on my back, have a low immune system, and all kinds of neurological problems. My eyesight has been fucked over during this. "Static vision" as I like to call it, tons of floaters, lines, dots, and whatever the hell else there is. I used to have very good eyesight, but during this span of time, all this has happened. All kinds of shit in my field of vision. I've been to many different doctors, had many different tests done, and no one can find anything wrong. I know that all this is caused by this stress and depression, and the depression is without a single fucking doubt caused by religion. Meaning religion is making me physically and mentally ill. I've got to break away from this shit soon. But I can't.

 

BTW - All my posts have been pretty much just me venting and getting pissed off, expecting all you to listen to the endless ranting of my fucked up mind. For that, I apologize. I really need to stop doing that.

[Crazy Donna]

Enough is enough. I've had it. Fuck this way of thinking. Fuck this way of living. I can't do it anymore.

CI,

 

I hope this means that you have decided to relax and take things slowly. There is no need to hurry and decide anything. Just sit back and give yourself some time. Find something else to do. Go walk in the park or do something you enjoy.

 

Once I get past Christianity, I will. Until then... I don't think I can. Whether it's the truth or not, I have to make the decision, "am I able to be a Christian?" At the moment, the answer to that question is no. I don't want to bring eternal damnation upon myself, but this is one great big depressive mindfuck that I can't live with anymore. I'm sick of who I am, what religion has turned me into. This long period of anxiety and depression has even manifested itself in my physical health. I'm always weak, shaky, get headaches, dizziness, always pale, have heart palpitations sometimes, have breakouts on my back, have a low immune system, and all kinds of neurological problems. My eyesight has been fucked over during this. "Static vision" as I like to call it, tons of floaters, lines, dots, and whatever the hell else there is. I used to have very good eyesight, but during this span of time, all this has happened. All kinds of shit in my field of vision. I've been to many different doctors, had many different tests done, and no one can find anything wrong. I know that all this is caused by this stress and depression, and the depression is without a single fucking doubt caused by religion. Meaning religion is making me physically and mentally ill. I've got to break away from this shit soon. But I can't.

 

BTW - All my posts have been pretty much just me venting and getting pissed off, expecting all you to listen to the endless ranting of my fucked up mind. For that, I apologize. I really need to stop doing that.

I like listening to you vent and rant. Please don't stop on my behalf.

[StevoMuso]

I like listening to you vent and rant. Please don't stop on my behalf.

Me too. We are here to help CI. Compassion and empathy are what humans do, not just Christians.

[Ouroboros]

...

All kinds of shit in my field of vision. I've been to many different doctors, had many different tests done, and no one can find anything wrong. I know that all this is caused by this stress and depression, and the depression is without a single fucking doubt caused by religion. Meaning religion is making me physically and mentally ill. I've got to break away from this shit soon. But I can't.

CI, I think your problems are rooted in deeper issues than just religion. I recommend that you seek some help, some kind of professional or therapist, because it sounds to me that there are more things going on with you than just questions and confusion about Christianity (even though I'm certain your issue with Christianity doesn't make it better but rather exacerbate the whole problem).

[Antlerman]

...

All kinds of shit in my field of vision. I've been to many different doctors, had many different tests done, and no one can find anything wrong. I know that all this is caused by this stress and depression, and the depression is without a single fucking doubt caused by religion. Meaning religion is making me physically and mentally ill. I've got to break away from this shit soon. But I can't.

CI, I think your problems are rooted in deeper issues than just religion. I recommend that you seek some help, some kind of professional or therapist, because it sounds to me that there are more things going on with you than just questions and confusion about Christianity (even though I'm certain your issue with Christianity doesn't make it better but rather exacerbate the whole problem).

I concur with this. The whole question of religion has become a focus of a greater anxiety that exists in your life. Until you resolve that, it may not be possible to sort through your thoughts about religion. Your religion for right now should be about you and mental well-being. If there is some God out there you need to consider, I'm sure he'd be more interested in seeing you healthy than about having garlands thrown at his feet by you. Get well first, then deal with it. You have permission to focus on something else, namely finding peace. Being selfish in this case is the greater good. Once you've found yourself, then you can move beyond that to larger questions of your life.

[Guest confused idiot]

Well, I've had a lot of tests done by different doctors, trying to find the problem, but they can't find anything. So the problem is probably not physical. So I guess the only other option would be to see a secular shrink, which my parents would probably not let me do. So I don't know.

[Ouroboros]

Well, a secular shrink is more likely to figure out if your problem is physical or not. I'm a little iffy about religious psychiatrists since there's a risk they assume supernatural causes and overlook natural. Not saying that they do, but the risk is that they do.

 

And judging from your comment that you need your parents permission to seek help, know this, you're young, and it's natural to be confused in the late teens. All us oldies were. It doesn't matter if you're an religious nutjob, agnostic, or hardcore atheist, the teenage years messes with your head. I'm surprised your shrinks couldn't see that and tell you.

 

What did they think it was? Demons?

[Sconnor]

End, I replied to your post at the Completely Lost thread, in the Coliseum, on page thirteen.

 

--S.

[Guest confused idiot]

Well, a secular shrink is more likely to figure out if your problem is physical or not. I'm a little iffy about religious psychiatrists since there's a risk they assume supernatural causes and overlook natural. Not saying that they do, but the risk is that they do.

 

And judging from your comment that you need your parents permission to seek help, know this, you're young, and it's natural to be confused in the late teens. All us oldies were. It doesn't matter if you're an religious nutjob, agnostic, or hardcore atheist, the teenage years messes with your head. I'm surprised your shrinks couldn't see that and tell you.

 

What did they think it was? Demons?

 

One guy I talked to online once thought it was demons. But the actual counselor I talked to never mentioned demons. Those sessions weren't effective at all. All he did was show me scripture, scripture I already knew. Every Christian I talk to basically thinks that I'm seeing things wrong, and that they've "done everything they could". They act like I'm the one at fault, when I didn't choose to bring any of this upon myself. This all started when I gave my life to Jesus. That is the point where all of this started. My motives were good and pure. To be saved, to live for God, to do what he wants. Somehow, that all backfired. I really don't think I'm seeing ANYTHING wrong. I'm seeing it for exactly what it is - a mindfuck. They just don't want to admit that religion can ruin people's mental health.

[Ouroboros]

One guy I talked to online once thought it was demons. But the actual counselor I talked to never mentioned demons. Those sessions weren't effective at all. All he did was show me scripture, scripture I already knew.

Well, then they're not helping the underlying frustration and depression you have. Yes, I suspect that you might suffer some depression. The Bible does not fit the human nature, and it cannot answer the questions you need answered. You need to know why you feel the way you do, and it will not be answered by pat-phrases and Bible-cliches. You need a real counselor.

 

Every Christian I talk to basically thinks that I'm seeing things wrong, and that they've "done everything they could". They act like I'm the one at fault, when I didn't choose to bring any of this upon myself.

Religion is famous to blame the victim. This is not your fault. If you feel that you're revealing to much here, you can PM me privately. But I'm guessing you're something like 17-18 years old? During that time, there is a shit-storm of hormones in your body. Nature creates this and it can be really hard for some people to go through. Know this: in a few years it will settle down and things will become clearer again. Right now it is hard for you to form all the thoughts necessary to calm your raging emotional storm. So just have "faith" in that you will come out of it. Ride out the storm.

 

This all started when I gave my life to Jesus. That is the point where all of this started. My motives were good and pure. To be saved, to live for God, to do what he wants. Somehow, that all backfired. I really don't think I'm seeing ANYTHING wrong. I'm seeing it for exactly what it is - a mindfuck. They just don't want to admit that religion can ruin people's mental health.

We've had (and still have) many members here who had their lives ruined by religion. Many of us regret all the lost years and lost opportunities. You're not alone. M'kay?

[Guest confused idiot]

One guy I talked to online once thought it was demons. But the actual counselor I talked to never mentioned demons. Those sessions weren't effective at all. All he did was show me scripture, scripture I already knew.

Well, then they're not helping the underlying frustration and depression you have. Yes, I suspect that you might suffer some depression. The Bible does not fit the human nature, and it cannot answer the questions you need answered. You need to know why you feel the way you do, and it will not be answered by pat-phrases and Bible-cliches. You need a real counselor.

 

Every Christian I talk to basically thinks that I'm seeing things wrong, and that they've "done everything they could". They act like I'm the one at fault, when I didn't choose to bring any of this upon myself.

Religion is famous to blame the victim. This is not your fault. If you feel that you're revealing to much here, you can PM me privately. But I'm guessing you're something like 17-18 years old? During that time, there is a shit-storm of hormones in your body. Nature creates this and it can be really hard for some people to go through. Know this: in a few years it will settle down and things will become clearer again. Right now it is hard for you to form all the thoughts necessary to calm your raging emotional storm. So just have "faith" in that you will come out of it. Ride out the storm.

 

This all started when I gave my life to Jesus. That is the point where all of this started. My motives were good and pure. To be saved, to live for God, to do what he wants. Somehow, that all backfired. I really don't think I'm seeing ANYTHING wrong. I'm seeing it for exactly what it is - a mindfuck. They just don't want to admit that religion can ruin people's mental health.

We've had (and still have) many members here who had their lives ruined by religion. Many of us regret all the lost years and lost opportunities. You're not alone. M'kay?

 

Yep, I'm about to turn 18. You said "The Bible does not fit human nature".... That's exactly right, and that is one thing that's so depressing about it. It basically teaches that, because some dumbass ate from a tree he wasn't supposed to thousands of years ago, the entire human race is under a curse called sin, and somehow we are to blame for what they did. It teaches that everything we percieve as good is really evil, and everything we percieve as evil is really good. Natural attraction to the opposite sex is deemed sinful, and even looking at a woman is considered adultery of the heart. Paul even taught that it's best to remain single, but if we can't control our "sinful desires", we should just get married. We were born under a curse that we didn't choose to be born under, a curse that makes us all evil, worthless pieces of shit that deserve to burn for eternity. Yet God sent his son as a sacrifice for our sins, so we wouldn't have to burn. So that means if we become perfect, deny our natural desires, and follow every single command that Jesus said to do, even to the point of depresion, we MIGHT have a chance to not burn for eternity. But if we screw up, question anything, have one single unpure thought, we better drop to our knees and REPENT, otherwise we'll burn in hell. It's no wonder there are so many denominations. The Bible is not even clear on it's own doctrines. Some parts teach one thing, some parts teach something completely different. The Old Testament taught one thing. Then Jesus came and changed all that, and taught something else. After Jesus, Paul came along, and taught something else. Jesus taught more of a works based salvation, and Paul taught a faith based salvation. And we're supposed to put them both together and make sense of it. Seriously, how do people find joy in this? This is some depressing stuff.

[Ouroboros]

Yup. CI, you pretty much summed it up.

 

But you know, I'm not depressed over those things anymore. It is sad to see that people need this fantasy to help them through life. I can understand why, but it's still sad that so many need it.

 

One of the steps I know that went through my mind before I deconverted was that if God really is good, then Hell just can't be true, at least not in the sense I've learned it or read it in the Bible. It just doesn't make sense. And if you start studying psychology, sociology, and biology, you will learn that so much of what we do and who we are can be seen in the biopsychosocial aspect, not supernatural. "Sin" and "evil" are explained for social aspect more than some supposedly real things in the spiritual world.

 

I suggest that you keep on studying and go for a degree in one (or all) of these areas, and you will start understanding the world differently, even why religion exists.

[Guest confused idiot]

Yup. CI, you pretty much summed it up.

 

But you know, I'm not depressed over those things anymore. It is sad to see that people need this fantasy to help them through life. I can understand why, but it's still sad that so many need it.

 

One of the steps I know that went through my mind before I deconverted was that if God really is good, then Hell just can't be true, at least not in the sense I've learned it or read it in the Bible. It just doesn't make sense. And if you start studying psychology, sociology, and biology, you will learn that so much of what we do and who we are can be seen in the biopsychosocial aspect, not supernatural. "Sin" and "evil" are explained for social aspect more than some supposedly real things in the spiritual world.

 

I suggest that you keep on studying and go for a degree in one (or all) of these areas, and you will start understanding the world differently, even why religion exists.

 

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources, I'm not intellectually able, and it would be a waste of time. I just say fuck it all. I don't even have beliefs anymore. I'm fucked up in the head in ways I've never even talked about with anyone. Religion only made that worse. I need a shrink.

[Realist]

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources

 

confused .... you obviously have the Net. That is EXACTLY the place that has helped most of us on this website! You will find no more readily available tool than it! It is you that has to have the desire to do something about it though.

[Guest confused idiot]

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources

 

confused .... you obviously have the Net. That is EXACTLY the place that has helped most of us on this website! You will find no more readily available tool than it! It is you that has to have the desire to do something about it though.

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

[Realist]

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources

 

confused .... you obviously have the Net. That is EXACTLY the place that has helped most of us on this website! You will find no more readily available tool than it! It is you that has to have the desire to do something about it though.

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

 

 

... yes, but that is the same with ANY information ... written ... on the Net ... the News media ... the bible .... anything!

[Shyone]

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

Actually, it did "work", just not the way you expected.

 

Many, if not most, of us turned to the bible or apologetics when we began to question.

 

"Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the

reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could

not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has

never left me."

Albert Einstein

 

Paraphrasing someone else, the book that has conviced the most people to become atheists is the bible.

 

Trust is not as important as discernment. Even with all of the unreliable sources on the net, finding reliable information is not that difficult. The "golden standard" for reliable information is "peer reviewed scientific journals" and the second most reliable would be the sites that rely on this kind of information (preferrably with specific references). The bibliography is thus a good source for additional reading.

 

Well, to cut it short, the scientific information has been collected and organized in several places, but the indisputable leader on the net is talkorigins.org. They have an extensive archive that could probably answer any questions regarding the science behind "the controversy" of creationism.

[agnosticator]

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources

 

confused .... you obviously have the Net. That is EXACTLY the place that has helped most of us on this website! You will find no more readily available tool than it! It is you that has to have the desire to do something about it though.

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

 

Hey confused, maybe this will be of help. Marlene is an ex-christian secular therapist with her head on straight. Her expertise is in helping people like you.

[Guest confused idiot]

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources

 

confused .... you obviously have the Net. That is EXACTLY the place that has helped most of us on this website! You will find no more readily available tool than it! It is you that has to have the desire to do something about it though.

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

 

 

... yes, but that is the same with ANY information ... written ... on the Net ... the News media ... the bible .... anything!

 

Yeah. With that said, I don't think I should trust myself reading any kind of serious info. My discernment is not good enough.

 

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

Actually, it did "work", just not the way you expected.

 

Many, if not most, of us turned to the bible or apologetics when we began to question.

 

"Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the

reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could

not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has

never left me."

Albert Einstein

 

Paraphrasing someone else, the book that has conviced the most people to become atheists is the bible.

 

Trust is not as important as discernment. Even with all of the unreliable sources on the net, finding reliable information is not that difficult. The "golden standard" for reliable information is "peer reviewed scientific journals" and the second most reliable would be the sites that rely on this kind of information (preferrably with specific references). The bibliography is thus a good source for additional reading.

 

Well, to cut it short, the scientific information has been collected and organized in several places, but the indisputable leader on the net is talkorigins.org. They have an extensive archive that could probably answer any questions regarding the science behind "the controversy" of creationism.

 

Einstein said that, and Christians actually try to use some of his sayings to DEFEND their faith? Wow.

 

I can't study these things. I don't have the resources

 

confused .... you obviously have the Net. That is EXACTLY the place that has helped most of us on this website! You will find no more readily available tool than it! It is you that has to have the desire to do something about it though.

 

Yeah, but when you're reading stuff on the net you gotta know what you can trust. I don't. There are all kinds of nutjobs on the internet, from one extreme to the other. Reading stuff online is what got me into this jam in the first place, except I was reading about Christianity and the Bible so I could learn more and please God better. That obviously didn't work.

 

Hey confused, maybe this will be of help. Marlene is an ex-christian secular therapist with her head on straight. Her expertise is in helping people like you.

 

Hmm... That link could come in handy. Thanks. If they weren't so expensive, I might consider setting up one of those telephone sessions.

[Guest end3]

It's perfectly obvious, what is being said (and what has been said) is completely lost on you; You have habitually failed to grasp our points, as evidenced by your post here, which is why I and the other posters have to constantly bang our arguments into your head.

 

It took a long time to "wash in by the blood", so thinking outside probably doesn't come as easy for me as it once did.

 

You are the one who believes in the christian god and asks us to take your word on it that Jesus is real, the claims of the bible and christianity are true and your particular superstitions have a reference in reality -- without providing a shred of objective evidence.

 

Which would be a point. I asked several times which scientific method would you like me to employ? Which really means science has no adequate method, but doesn't mean there won't be a time where we can't measure a correlation....and I maintain my position based on this rational conclusion.

 

So, I'm still waiting for you to verify your claim: "the love of Jesus". has any reference in reality

 

That's an interesting thought, a study of people and their "works" by faith vs. "works" out of faith.

 

If you can NOT provide objective evidence for your claim then you still have NOT answered my question: What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

 

I guess we will have to wait in faith for science.

 

And while we're at it please provide objective evidence for the staple of your belief system: the resurrection. Please provide objective evidence that someone can be dead and buried for three days only to be resurrected -- alive and well and then provide objective evidence that this action and your particular christian criteria removes sin and saves. I've asked you time and time again to provide objective evidence for this but you ALWAYS ignore it -- go figure?!?

 

Scott, the resurrection has never been an issue with me, so I have never given it much contemplation nor has God given me any revelation on the subject. I have always just taken it to be. Sorry to disappoint.

 

"

Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -- Mark Twain

 

Didn't Mark Twain have a significant bad event in his life that possibly skewed his attitude? I think he did.

 

To reiterate and bolster my assertion -- FAITH is a deplorable method of obtaining and processing information; consider the devout Muslim: they too use faith to make extraordinary claims about Allah and how they experience him and have a, spiritual connection to him, that runs through their life and they pray and talk to him too.

 

I think you are misrepresenting faith vs. acquired wisdom through faith....and also the type of information that is obtained and processed....i.e. what can science tell me with certainty about love and grace? Lol.

 

So --no -- end, I'm NOT going say something different until you thoroughly comprehend the easy to understand arguments we have presented, which you miserably failed to digest.

 

Well believe it or not Scott, every now and then I like you. Glad to see you back.

[Guest confused idiot]

All hope is gone. My chances at living a normal life are gone. Fuck my existence. I've lost the will to live.

[Legion]

All hope is gone. My chances at living a normal life are gone. Fuck my existence. I've lost the will to live.

How am I supposed to respond to this? Seriously.

[Phanta]

CI,

 

If you are thinking about suicide or planning suicide and you are in the U.S., call the suicide hotline. They are there 24 hours a day, every day. The call is free. 1-800-273-8255.

 

I am so sorry you are suffering so much.

 

Phanta

[Guest confused idiot]

CI,

 

If you are thinking about suicide or planning suicide and you are in the U.S., call the suicide hotline. They are there 24 hours a day, every day. The call is free. 1-800-273-8255.

 

I am so sorry you are suffering so much.

 

Phanta

 

I don't consider suicide an option.