I'm Completely Lost...

[Shyone]

I believe that the thinking feeds on itself sometimes CI.... not so much anymore, but I could use to think myself into a panic damn near. The ways I got out of the thinking panic/depression thing was 1) I just said screw it, I can't even think about any of it anymore, and focused on one thing that made me happy. 2) When I let myself go that far, I did think on occasion that it was stupid to let myself let it go that far, (the thinking/panic stuff)....the pull myself up by the bootstraps thing. 3) Took antidepressants for awhile.

 

Long story short...don't feel like your alone. If you're crazy/worthless, then we all are.

 

 

P.S. Like my old dad said about the believer/non-believer thing.....no one really knows and you just have to land somewhere. I think when you land someday and you know why you land, then some of you stuff will stop, but there is no harm in taking your time.

You know, when you're talking about human things, you make a great deal of sense. This is wisdom.

[StevoMuso]

I believe that the thinking feeds on itself sometimes CI.... not so much anymore, but I could use to think myself into a panic damn near. The ways I got out of the thinking panic/depression thing was 1) I just said screw it, I can't even think about any of it anymore, and focused on one thing that made me happy. 2) When I let myself go that far, I did think on occasion that it was stupid to let myself let it go that far, (the thinking/panic stuff)....the pull myself up by the bootstraps thing. 3) Took antidepressants for awhile.

Long story short...don't feel like your alone. If you're crazy/worthless, then we all are.

P.S. Like my old dad said about the believer/non-believer thing.....no one really knows and you just have to land somewhere. I think when you land someday and you know why you land, then some of you stuff will stop, but there is no harm in taking your time.

You know, when you're talking about human things, you make a great deal of sense. This is wisdom.

I agree. Nice post End3

[Phanta]

I believe that the thinking feeds on itself sometimes CI.... not so much anymore, but I could use to think myself into a panic damn near. The ways I got out of the thinking panic/depression thing was 1) I just said screw it, I can't even think about any of it anymore, and focused on one thing that made me happy. 2) When I let myself go that far, I did think on occasion that it was stupid to let myself let it go that far, (the thinking/panic stuff)....the pull myself up by the bootstraps thing. 3) Took antidepressants for awhile.

 

Long story short...don't feel like your alone. If you're crazy/worthless, then we all are.

 

 

P.S. Like my old dad said about the believer/non-believer thing.....no one really knows and you just have to land somewhere. I think when you land someday and you know why you land, then some of you stuff will stop, but there is no harm in taking your time.

 

Well said. The p.s. is basically a description of what happens when cognitive dissonance ends...when you are able to sort out enough that you're no longer in distress. This doesn't have to be a hard, strong view...it just means the piece or pieces of it that are killing you, you've sorted.

 

Hang in there. It will come.

 

Phanta

[Guest confused idiot]

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

 

Fucked up...I don't know. You sound like a person having a hard time and struggling to find the right guidance for you at this moment. You've been through a pretty big change, which can shock the system. Go easy on yourself, hey? Working stuff through doesn't happen in isolation. Communication isn't "complaining". It's part of the process. Healthy. Really. And not everyone's path or solution is going to hit on your current needs. That's normal.

 

Has anything brought you any bit of comfort, here or elsewhere, to this point? Anything at all caught your attention and made you feel lighter?

 

Phanta

 

Well, one thing that's comforting when all of this gets too overwhelming is when I come to the realization that I don't have to just sit here and take it... Because, really, the only thing stopping me from changing any of this is myself. Unrelated, but music has been a great refuge to me throughout all this. It may be deemed "the devil's music" by some, but regardless, it has helped me through this like no Christian could understand.

 

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

Why? What specifically is your frustration with yourself over that you should turn it into an expression of self-loathing? I would not do the comparison game of 'how much more together' or 'how much smarter everyone is'. It's an illusion. We're all just as fucked up, as hard as that is to believe. Humans are all really just a bunch of neurotic primates with overly big brains.

 

"Having it together", is really nothing more than just a matter of learning to keep our neurotic selves within manageable control. Trust me, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It can only be greener on your side, and that really is a matter of choice how you wish to look at the world and yourself. You don't hate yourself. Imagine if you didn't have any concerns over thoughts? We'd just be a bunch of monkeys picking flies out of our hair and eating them, blinking our eyes blankly at the day. Cheer up.

 

I don't know... My hatred towards myself doesn't really have anything to do with this, but it's clearly came out in my posts. All I can say is, I know myself too well, and I hate what I see.

 

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

CI,

 

I found a little poem for you.

 

A Creed to Live By

 

Don't undermine your worth by comparing

yourself with others,

 

It is because we are different that each

of us is special.

 

Don't set your goals by what other people

deem important,

 

Only you know what is best for you.

 

Don't take for granted the things closest

to your heart

 

Cling to that as you would your life, for without

them life is meaningless.

 

Don't let your life slip through your fingers by living

in the past or the future.

 

By living your life one day at a time, you live all the

days of your life.

 

Don't give up when you still have something to give

 

Nothing is really over … until the moment

you stop trying.

 

Don't be afraid to admit that you are less

than perfect,

 

It is the fragile thread that binds us to each other.

 

Don't be afraid to encounter risks,

 

It is by taking chances that we learn how to be brave.

 

Don't shut love out of your life by saying it's

impossible to find.

 

The quickest way to receive love is to give love.

 

The fastest way to lose love is to hold on too tightly,

 

And the best way to keep love is to give it wings.

 

Don't dismiss your Dreams. To be without

dreams is to be without hope.

 

To be without hope is to be without purpose.

 

Don't run through life so fast that you forget

where you've been,

 

But also know where you're going.

 

Life is not a race, but a journey to be savored

every step of the way.

 

Author Unknown

 

And please, complain, moan and groan all you want. That's why we are here.

 

Nice poem.

 

I believe that the thinking feeds on itself sometimes CI.... not so much anymore, but I could use to think myself into a panic damn near. The ways I got out of the thinking panic/depression thing was 1) I just said screw it, I can't even think about any of it anymore, and focused on one thing that made me happy. 2) When I let myself go that far, I did think on occasion that it was stupid to let myself let it go that far, (the thinking/panic stuff)....the pull myself up by the bootstraps thing. 3) Took antidepressants for awhile.

 

Long story short...don't feel like your alone. If you're crazy/worthless, then we all are.

 

 

P.S. Like my old dad said about the believer/non-believer thing.....no one really knows and you just have to land somewhere. I think when you land someday and you know why you land, then some of you stuff will stop, but there is no harm in taking your time.

 

I get what you're saying. If I may ask, since you are a believer and you went through all that, what was it that made you overcome it and come out of it a Christian? Because when I see things from my perspective in my own situation, even if it is the truth, I don't see how I could ever be a strong Christian ever again, even if I wanted to be.

[Crazy Donna]

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

 

Dude, you are just having a crisis.

 

Trust me on this. You have based your identity on your role as a christian for a long time, and now that it is getting shaky, you don't really know who you are anymore. You're depressed, confused, frustrated? Am I right?

 

It feels like CRAP. I know, I've been there.

 

Firstly, I assure you, it will pass. If one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter how shit stuff gets, eventually something will change. And I have a feeling that in your case, it will change for the positive, because you have an inquiring mind and you ask intelligent questions. You want to know. To paraphrase a David Bowie song, you don't want knowledge, you want certainty. Well, knowledge is a good path to certainty.

 

I would start by doing some reading online. If you can't read books at your house, try reading a few websites. I suggest you start from the science angle. The more you know about science, the easier it is. You don't need a physics degree. Read a few popular science books. In this case, Richard Dawkins is great. I found the debunking christianity website excellent. I will have a look online later for some good sites and post another reply. It's way past my bedtime here.

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better. catch ya.

[Crazy Donna]

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

 

Dude, you are just having a crisis.

 

Trust me on this. You have based your identity on your role as a christian for a long time, and now that it is getting shaky, you don't really know who you are anymore. You're depressed, confused, frustrated? Am I right?

 

It feels like CRAP. I know, I've been there.

 

Firstly, I assure you, it will pass. If one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter how shit stuff gets, eventually something will change. And I have a feeling that in your case, it will change for the positive, because you have an inquiring mind and you ask intelligent questions. You want to know. To paraphrase a David Bowie song, you don't want knowledge, you want certainty. Well, knowledge is a good path to certainty.

 

I would start by doing some reading online. If you can't read books at your house, try reading a few websites. I suggest you start from the science angle. The more you know about science, the easier it is. You don't need a physics degree. Read a few popular science books. In this case, Richard Dawkins is great. I found the debunking christianity website excellent. I will have a look online later for some good sites and post another reply. It's way past my bedtime here.

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better. catch ya.

[ShackledNoMore]

I don't know... My hatred towards myself doesn't really have anything to do with this, but it's clearly came out in my posts. All I can say is, I know myself too well, and I hate what I see.

CI, I do not know the private dynamics of your self hatred, but I know that we humans can sometimes view ourselves through absurdly critical lenses.

 

If I may offer a personal illustration, I have what I used to consider a sexual aberration for which I came down quite harshly upon myself. Now, I've never had much counseling nor have I ever found it generally very useful for myself (I know that others have very good things to say about their experiences), but in this instance I was berating myself, and the therapist, knowing that I happened to be straight and being smart enough to realize I was not a bigot, asked me what I thought about gays. I made a strong statement in defense of gays, making very clear that their orientation was no cause for criticism. The therapist responded with the most helpful and wise words I have ever heard from a therapist: "Why don't you extend the same tolerance to yourself?"

 

Whatever it may be that you see in yourself that you see in yourself that you hate, I doubt that you, or any reasonable person, would believe that another person, with another set of thoughts, instincts, emotions, figurative demons, shortcomings, deficiencies, attributes, some hidden dark side, essence equally "condemnable" to yours would deserve to burn in eternal, infinite punishment. (I put condemnable in quotes--we do not live in a black and white world and even not being in your head I can say there is nothing in you that would call for any sort of pure and utter condemnation).

 

I also think that your being a thinker bodes well for dealing with your struggles over time. It's a big help thinking through stuff like this.

[Guest confused idiot]

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

 

Dude, you are just having a crisis.

 

Trust me on this. You have based your identity on your role as a christian for a long time, and now that it is getting shaky, you don't really know who you are anymore. You're depressed, confused, frustrated? Am I right?

 

It feels like CRAP. I know, I've been there.

 

Firstly, I assure you, it will pass. If one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter how shit stuff gets, eventually something will change. And I have a feeling that in your case, it will change for the positive, because you have an inquiring mind and you ask intelligent questions. You want to know. To paraphrase a David Bowie song, you don't want knowledge, you want certainty. Well, knowledge is a good path to certainty.

 

I would start by doing some reading online. If you can't read books at your house, try reading a few websites. I suggest you start from the science angle. The more you know about science, the easier it is. You don't need a physics degree. Read a few popular science books. In this case, Richard Dawkins is great. I found the debunking christianity website excellent. I will have a look online later for some good sites and post another reply. It's way past my bedtime here.

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better. catch ya.

 

 

Pretty much. As for it passing in time, I'm not so sure about that. So far it only gets worse over time. All this stress has even manifested itself in my physical health. It's all going downhill.

 

I don't know... My hatred towards myself doesn't really have anything to do with this, but it's clearly came out in my posts. All I can say is, I know myself too well, and I hate what I see.

CI, I do not know the private dynamics of your self hatred, but I know that we humans can sometimes view ourselves through absurdly critical lenses.

 

If I may offer a personal illustration, I have what I used to consider a sexual aberration for which I came down quite harshly upon myself. Now, I've never had much counseling nor have I ever found it generally very useful for myself (I know that others have very good things to say about their experiences), but in this instance I was berating myself, and the therapist, knowing that I happened to be straight and being smart enough to realize I was not a bigot, asked me what I thought about gays. I made a strong statement in defense of gays, making very clear that their orientation was no cause for criticism. The therapist responded with the most helpful and wise words I have ever heard from a therapist: "Why don't you extend the same tolerance to yourself?"

 

Whatever it may be that you see in yourself that you see in yourself that you hate, I doubt that you, or any reasonable person, would believe that another person, with another set of thoughts, instincts, emotions, figurative demons, shortcomings, deficiencies, attributes, some hidden dark side, essence equally "condemnable" to yours would deserve to burn in eternal, infinite punishment. (I put condemnable in quotes--we do not live in a black and white world and even not being in your head I can say there is nothing in you that would call for any sort of pure and utter condemnation).

 

I also think that your being a thinker bodes well for dealing with your struggles over time. It's a big help thinking through stuff like this.

 

What I see in myself is a failure. A loser in all possible ways. There's nothing good in me. The only way this self-hatred will ever be taken away is when I grow a pair and do something about all this. Otherwise, that ain't gonna change.

[Phanta]

....What the FUCK am I doing? I fucking hate who I am and I wouldn't have a problem seeing myself burn in hell, so I don't really give a shit about anything anymore. I am a fucked up human being who does nothing but come on a message board and complain about all this shit, which makes me hate my worthless self even more.... GAH.... Forget it, I have no business here...

 

Dude, you are just having a crisis.

 

Trust me on this. You have based your identity on your role as a christian for a long time, and now that it is getting shaky, you don't really know who you are anymore. You're depressed, confused, frustrated? Am I right?

 

It feels like CRAP. I know, I've been there.

 

Firstly, I assure you, it will pass. If one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter how shit stuff gets, eventually something will change. And I have a feeling that in your case, it will change for the positive, because you have an inquiring mind and you ask intelligent questions. You want to know. To paraphrase a David Bowie song, you don't want knowledge, you want certainty. Well, knowledge is a good path to certainty.

 

I would start by doing some reading online. If you can't read books at your house, try reading a few websites. I suggest you start from the science angle. The more you know about science, the easier it is. You don't need a physics degree. Read a few popular science books. In this case, Richard Dawkins is great. I found the debunking christianity website excellent. I will have a look online later for some good sites and post another reply. It's way past my bedtime here.

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better. catch ya.

 

 

Pretty much. As for it passing in time, I'm not so sure about that. So far it only gets worse over time. All this stress has even manifested itself in my physical health. It's all going downhill.

 

Sometimes it's like that...it doesn't always just sort of resolve. I know for me, most things don't just fix themselves up; I have to do work on them.

 

You replied in an earlier post that music is a refuge. Refuge=cope, and that's really awesome. I also use music as a cope. I have other copes, too. The more copes, the better.

 

You wrote, "one thing that's comforting when all of this gets too overwhelming is when I come to the realization that I don't have to just sit here and take it... Because, really, the only thing stopping me from changing any of this is myself." This is wise, and coming from a place of empowerment. Keep reaching into that energy to try stuff out. Identify good copes as you come across them. That empowered energy will drive your search for new coping mechanisms.

 

Copes are distractions, supports & solutions. A variety is important. Why? Because we cannot avoid (through distraction) all the time; we need solutions, or a path that seems to work to take to solutions; we can't hide forever, the way of the world won't allow that in the long run without us deteriorating further (addiction, job loss, etc). On the flip side, while we are seeking solutions or a solution path that works, we need to take breaks or else we will never get anything done. This is where distractions come in (hobbies, music, etc). Support is important, too: validation, security, love from others. The more copes you have, the better. The path isn't linear, it's more like a box of tools you utilize as you work through a problem. Make sense?

 

Some of the tools you try out aren't going to work, or are only going to work in certain cases. When a tool fails, tap into that empowerment I keep hearing in your writing to put that tool down and try another one. You will learn what work when and what doesn't work at all. It will take time.

 

Hang in there!

 

Phanta

[Guest end3]

I get what you're saying. If I may ask, since you are a believer and you went through all that, what was it that made you overcome it and come out of it a Christian? Because when I see things from my perspective in my own situation, even if it is the truth, I don't see how I could ever be a strong Christian ever again, even if I wanted to be.

 

I credit God for certain things in my life...answers/experiences.....and because Christianity/God appears real to me, I can't fathom turning away after what I perceive has been done for me. I know there are many arguments against such, but like I say, it is real for me.

 

To what you said, I also go through times when I don't feel strong in my faith, but there are times that I really do. I don't know that I have any explanation for the cyclical nature of that. And sometimes, the perspective of an explanation itself leads us to think that is certainly true.

 

For the things that don't make complete sense within Christianity, I hold my understanding open in faith. Just my choice. And it took me awhile to be comfortable with my own tolerance for allowing myself to "not fully understand".......the good things in Christianity outweighs the things I am uncertain of....part of why I stay, but the aforementioned reason is the big one.

[Phanta]

I credit God for certain things in my life...answers/experiences.....and because Christianity/God appears real to me, I can't fathom turning away after what I perceive has been done for me. I know there are many arguments against such, but like I say, it is real for me.

 

To what you said, I also go through times when I don't feel strong in my faith, but there are times that I really do. I don't know that I have any explanation for the cyclical nature of that. And sometimes, the perspective of an explanation itself leads us to think that is certainly true.

 

What noun or noun phrase is "that" referring to?

 

P

[Guest end3]

I credit God for certain things in my life...answers/experiences.....and because Christianity/God appears real to me, I can't fathom turning away after what I perceive has been done for me. I know there are many arguments against such, but like I say, it is real for me.

 

To what you said, I also go through times when I don't feel strong in my faith, but there are times that I really do. I don't know that I have any explanation for the cyclical nature of that. And sometimes, the perspective of an explanation itself leads us to think that is certainly true.

 

What noun or noun phrase is "that" referring to?

 

P

 

The explanation via perspective...

 

My bad.....drat, drat and double drat

[ShallowByThyGame]

You will never be who you want to be until you decide to be that person. You have a body and a brain like everyone else, so you are capable of many things. You aren't forthcoming on why you think you are a failure, but perhaps if you could figure out one thing you'd like to be different, you could start to take the steps towards fixing it.

 

The only way you'll be free to do anything if after you've lost everything. Don't be afraid to let the past go. It has no control over you. Only the present exists.

[Phanta]

I credit God for certain things in my life...answers/experiences.....and because Christianity/God appears real to me, I can't fathom turning away after what I perceive has been done for me. I know there are many arguments against such, but like I say, it is real for me.

 

To what you said, I also go through times when I don't feel strong in my faith, but there are times that I really do. I don't know that I have any explanation for the cyclical nature of that. And sometimes, the perspective of an explanation itself leads us to think that is certainly true.

 

What noun or noun phrase is "that" referring to?

 

P

 

The explanation via perspective...

 

My bad.....drat, drat and double drat

 

So, "The perspective of an explanation itself leads us to think that explanation is certainly true." Yes?

 

P

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

This is one thing I hate about religion. It puts this kind of undue stress to be perfect on people. People are not perfect. This is a GRAND indication that we were not created by a perfect creator. Your typical Christian will tell you that you need to "let go and let God". Ridiculous. Nobody else is going to do anything for you, especially not some imagined god. Clinging to ideas of how you "should be" will only leave you feeling as you do now. Let go of it, yes, but don't expect anyone or anything else to solve your issues for you. You can do that all on your own. Be free of the templates that religion and even society in general want to try to force you into. Just be yourself.

[Crazy Donna]

"Pretty much. As for it passing in time, I'm not so sure about that. So far it only gets worse over time. All this stress has even manifested itself in my physical health. It's all going downhill."

 

I know what that's like. This happened to me when I was in my very early twenties. I thought I was going insane, literally. I've always had some problems with my mental health, but now I know that it's just stress, and I can distance myself from it. Stress makes your depression worse, and I think at the moment you might be a bit depressed. Anxiety and depression are pretty closely related, becase they are both ways your body reacts to a stressor you can't seem to do anything about. Your body is designed, over millions of years of evolution, to respond to stress by dumping a shitload of adrenalin into your bloodstream. Adrenalin gives you the ability to run like mad away from a sabre toothed tiger, or fight another caveman, or stay perfectly still in the event that you find yourself hiding from a predator. Since you're chock full of adrenalin now, I suggest you use it up to get it out of your bloodstream. Go for a brisk walk, or if that isn't an option, do some starjumps. Seriously, your body is designed for you to get rid of the adrenalin, and having it floating around your body is fucking you up. Use it up when it gets really, really bad.

 

"What I see in myself is a failure. A loser in all possible ways. There's nothing good in me. The only way this self-hatred will ever be taken away is when I grow a pair and do something about all this. Otherwise, that ain't gonna change."

 

You don't need to 'grow a pair'. You've been indoctrinated by a religion that tells you that you are inherently worthless. You just need to expose yourself to some different perspectives, and then you will realise that you aren't actually that different to everyone else. I was indoctrinated by a family that told me pretty much the same thing -- It has taken me years to start shaking that off. I really like reading your posts, because you remind me a lot of me. I was raised in a family where they expected for some reason that I was going to be born male. It was obviously a big disappointment when I wasn't. So my whole life, I've never been a 'girly girl' because I was trying to live up to everyone's expectations, but I still didn't fit, because I wasn't born male. So either way, everyone was disappointed. Not girly enough, not born male. I was held to standards that were impossible to reach. It was only when I got a way from my family and started hanging around with total strangers who treated me like an individual that I realised I wasn't actually that bad, and for some reason, people liked me.

 

Just take it slowly. You don't need to fix everything all at once. You're not a failure. You have at least had the intellectual balls to go down this path. Many people NEVER go down this path. They live their whole lives wrapped up in cotton wool because they think jesus loves them and god will solve all their problems. Then they never take responsibility for themselves. They never grow as human beings. Sometimes, growing as a human being sucks balls, but the results are worth it. You're not a loser. You're just at the pointy end of a big stick.

 

I had a look online for stuff that might help you. I found that I knew a lot about the bible and christianity, but I had a pretty piss poor science education. So I started studying biology, and that led me into evolution. I haven't read a fiction book (bible excepted) for about seven years. Just get your hands on some pretty easy, basic, popular science books, and get to know about the natural world. See, science books don't need to frame their version of reality in terms of god, they just say what the evidence says. If you start familiarising yourself with the natural world, eventually you will see christianity for the mindfucking lie it is. Some of my favourite books are non-fiction paperbacks, not even about evolution, but they are often about biology.

 

I really think you should read "the God Delusion" by Dawkins. I think it would help you a lot. Your local library might have it, even if you have to sneak into the library, read it, and then put it back on the shelf. Hitchins "God is not great" would also help. If I was in your circumstances, I would do this. They are VERY good books for someone in your situation. You don't have to take the books home, just read them at the library. Man, if I lived in the same country as you, I would GIVE you my copies, dammit. Just do some reading online and give us an update. I really like reading your posts.

 

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs.htm

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=3148

[Guest end3]

So, "The perspective of an explanation itself leads us to think that explanation is certainly true." Yes?

 

Yes.

[Sconnor]

I get what you're saying. If I may ask, since you are a believer and you went through all that, what was it that made you overcome it and come out of it a Christian? Because when I see things from my perspective in my own situation, even if it is the truth, I don't see how I could ever be a strong Christian ever again, even if I wanted to be.

 

I credit God for certain things in my life...answers/experiences.....

 

No -- you rationalize a divine hand intervened, on your behalf; nothing but a product of your imagination.

 

and because Christianity/God appears real to me, I can't fathom turning away after what I perceive has been done for me. I know there are many arguments against such, but like I say, it is real for me.

 

Just like some people think the beliefs in scientology are real to them or mormons who think the book of Mormon is truth.

 

And it took me awhile to be comfortable with my own tolerance for allowing myself to "not fully understand".......the good things in Christianity outweighs the things I am uncertain of....part of why I stay...

 

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

 

And spare me the salvation delusion. You still have not presented ANY objective evidence the resurrection and subsequent sin removal has ANY reference in reality.

 

--S.

[Guest end3]

No -- you rationalize a divine hand intervened, on your behalf; nothing but a product of your imagination.

You rationalize that I rationalize

 

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

The Love of Jesus

[Sconnor]

No -- you rationalize a divine hand intervened, on your behalf; nothing but a product of your imagination.

You rationalize that I rationalize

 

Uh; no -- end. You do NOT have ANY objective evidence for your outrageous god claims. You can NOT possibly prove that a god has intervened on your behalf as opposed to you delusionally attributing and rationalizing coincidences and emotion to a higher power. I know; I know -- it's real to you, just like the book of Mormon is real to a Mormon.

 

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

 

The Love of Jesus

 

Welp; there you have it folks -- Jesus only loves christians. Certain christians like end -- no doubt.

 

Furthermore, this is another ridiculous claim that has NO reference in reality.

Kind of like:

What "good things" in Mormonism can't be done without it?

The Love of the angel Moroni.

 

Is this the only "good thing" you can come up with? I thought you had good thing(s)?

 

--S.

[Guest confused idiot]

You will never be who you want to be until you decide to be that person. You have a body and a brain like everyone else, so you are capable of many things. You aren't forthcoming on why you think you are a failure, but perhaps if you could figure out one thing you'd like to be different, you could start to take the steps towards fixing it.

 

The only way you'll be free to do anything if after you've lost everything. Don't be afraid to let the past go. It has no control over you. Only the present exists.

 

You're right. The more and more time passes by, I'm learning that to be true.

 

This is one thing I hate about religion. It puts this kind of undue stress to be perfect on people. People are not perfect. This is a GRAND indication that we were not created by a perfect creator. Your typical Christian will tell you that you need to "let go and let God". Ridiculous. Nobody else is going to do anything for you, especially not some imagined god. Clinging to ideas of how you "should be" will only leave you feeling as you do now. Let go of it, yes, but don't expect anyone or anything else to solve your issues for you. You can do that all on your own. Be free of the templates that religion and even society in general want to try to force you into. Just be yourself.

 

That whole "let go and let God" thing really doesn't work.... When asking people why God won't help me snap out of these destructive mindsets, I've been told that he would if "i'd just let him". Ridiculous.... I've BEGGED God for a way out, it just ain't there. And this was coming from someone who knows me and my situation very well.

 

"Pretty much. As for it passing in time, I'm not so sure about that. So far it only gets worse over time. All this stress has even manifested itself in my physical health. It's all going downhill."

 

I know what that's like. This happened to me when I was in my very early twenties. I thought I was going insane, literally. I've always had some problems with my mental health, but now I know that it's just stress, and I can distance myself from it. Stress makes your depression worse, and I think at the moment you might be a bit depressed. Anxiety and depression are pretty closely related, becase they are both ways your body reacts to a stressor you can't seem to do anything about. Your body is designed, over millions of years of evolution, to respond to stress by dumping a shitload of adrenalin into your bloodstream. Adrenalin gives you the ability to run like mad away from a sabre toothed tiger, or fight another caveman, or stay perfectly still in the event that you find yourself hiding from a predator. Since you're chock full of adrenalin now, I suggest you use it up to get it out of your bloodstream. Go for a brisk walk, or if that isn't an option, do some starjumps. Seriously, your body is designed for you to get rid of the adrenalin, and having it floating around your body is fucking you up. Use it up when it gets really, really bad.

 

"What I see in myself is a failure. A loser in all possible ways. There's nothing good in me. The only way this self-hatred will ever be taken away is when I grow a pair and do something about all this. Otherwise, that ain't gonna change."

 

You don't need to 'grow a pair'. You've been indoctrinated by a religion that tells you that you are inherently worthless. You just need to expose yourself to some different perspectives, and then you will realise that you aren't actually that different to everyone else. I was indoctrinated by a family that told me pretty much the same thing -- It has taken me years to start shaking that off. I really like reading your posts, because you remind me a lot of me. I was raised in a family where they expected for some reason that I was going to be born male. It was obviously a big disappointment when I wasn't. So my whole life, I've never been a 'girly girl' because I was trying to live up to everyone's expectations, but I still didn't fit, because I wasn't born male. So either way, everyone was disappointed. Not girly enough, not born male. I was held to standards that were impossible to reach. It was only when I got a way from my family and started hanging around with total strangers who treated me like an individual that I realised I wasn't actually that bad, and for some reason, people liked me.

 

Just take it slowly. You don't need to fix everything all at once. You're not a failure. You have at least had the intellectual balls to go down this path. Many people NEVER go down this path. They live their whole lives wrapped up in cotton wool because they think jesus loves them and god will solve all their problems. Then they never take responsibility for themselves. They never grow as human beings. Sometimes, growing as a human being sucks balls, but the results are worth it. You're not a loser. You're just at the pointy end of a big stick.

 

I had a look online for stuff that might help you. I found that I knew a lot about the bible and christianity, but I had a pretty piss poor science education. So I started studying biology, and that led me into evolution. I haven't read a fiction book (bible excepted) for about seven years. Just get your hands on some pretty easy, basic, popular science books, and get to know about the natural world. See, science books don't need to frame their version of reality in terms of god, they just say what the evidence says. If you start familiarising yourself with the natural world, eventually you will see christianity for the mindfucking lie it is. Some of my favourite books are non-fiction paperbacks, not even about evolution, but they are often about biology.

 

I really think you should read "the God Delusion" by Dawkins. I think it would help you a lot. Your local library might have it, even if you have to sneak into the library, read it, and then put it back on the shelf. Hitchins "God is not great" would also help. If I was in your circumstances, I would do this. They are VERY good books for someone in your situation. You don't have to take the books home, just read them at the library. Man, if I lived in the same country as you, I would GIVE you my copies, dammit. Just do some reading online and give us an update. I really like reading your posts.

 

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs.htm

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=3148

 

I actually previewed Dawkins book the other day online. I'd like to read more of it.

[Antlerman]

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

The Love of Jesus

This harkens back to this 33 page thread here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34759-the-love-of-jesus/

 

Remember that? I think that whole 644 post thread stands as a response to this. Care to add a few more posts to it with me? I'll have more to add.

[Guest end3]

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

The Love of Jesus

This harkens back to this 33 page thread here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34759-the-love-of-jesus/

 

Remember that? I think that whole 644 post thread stands as a response to this. Care to add a few more posts to it with me? I'll have more to add.

 

Um, I may have said that on purpose...lol. Bring it when you're ready.

[Sconnor]

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

The Love of Jesus

This harkens back to this 33 page thread here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34759-the-love-of-jesus/

 

Remember that? I think that whole 644 post thread stands as a response to this. Care to add a few more posts to it with me? I'll have more to add.

 

Um, I may have said that on purpose...lol. Bring it when you're ready.

 

Why don't you address my last post, first?

 

And while you're at it, how about addressing my last post on The Problem With Pain thread.................

 

--S.

[Antlerman]

What "good things" in christianity can't be done without it?

The Love of Jesus

This harkens back to this 33 page thread here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34759-the-love-of-jesus/

 

Remember that? I think that whole 644 post thread stands as a response to this. Care to add a few more posts to it with me? I'll have more to add.

 

Um, I may have said that on purpose...lol. Bring it when you're ready.

Yeah, I don't know. I think we already know the answer to it.

 

Tis but thy name that is my enemy;

Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.

What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part

Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!

What's in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet;

So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,

Retain that dear perfection which he owes

Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,

And for that name which is no part of thee

Take all myself.