I'm Completely Lost...

[Guest confused idiot]

Yes, I have thoughts. It didn't happen to you, so stop thinking about it. I am not willing to accept "evidence" presented to someone else. When Thomas doubted Jesus, who did Jesus give the evidence to? A friend of Thomas? A complete stranger? No! The story says that Thomas himself got the evidence he needed. I have never had such evidence, and I am not willing to accept the testimony of someone else, no matter how reliable they are. If it doesn't happen to me personally, then I don't believe it.

 

And just for the record, I personally wouldn't believe anyone, no matter how much I trusted them, if they told me a story like that! Have you ever experienced anything of the sort yourself? Try putting yourself in his shoes...I know I would shit my shorts! The way you tell his story makes it sound like he's curious and not the least bit concerned about what the hell is going on! On a side note, I remember hearing stories of people who would be driving down the highway and all of a sudden a man would be sitting in the back seat of their car...an angel. Then shortly after appearing, he would vanish. I never believed that shit. It's never happened to me. And unless it does, I won't ever believe it either! Critical thinking is the key. Well, that and personal experience!

 

There was a myth, surrounding Charles Mansion, of that he levitated a Bus over a lake. Would I believe that if I heard it, no. I would wonder about how that myth started, whether is drugs or mythology. Don't just believe something like this, because someone tells you.

 

It's not the same. The Charles Manson thing is a myth. This story that I referenced, I heard it first hand from the guy it happened to. It's ain't hearsay. Like I said, two other guys heard the music. One is my youth pastor. The other is someone in my family.

Okay bad example, but I hope you get my point.

 

I do.

[dB-Paradox]

This story that I referenced, I heard it first hand from the guy it happened to.

Just curious....what do you think of all the UFO and alien abduction stories? Do you know anyone who's said they firsthand saw something? I know some people, and I don't believe them, either! But I think you need to let this go....studies have been done to show that people who are willing to accept some kind of evidence for something from someone else, having not experienced the event themselves, are more susceptible to mental illness. I honestly don't have a reference for you, it's something I heard once, and quite frankly, it makes sense. Why are you willing to accept someone else's experience as proof for something for your own life? If you had experienced it, can you say for certain your mind would have interpreted the stimuli the same way?

 

In the "Voice From The Sky" thread, in the General Theological Issues forum, I told of how I've heard music coming from a radio or something. But instead of simply accepting that, I've critically sought out an answer to the sound. Turns out it was the sound of water rushing through pipes. From a distance, things can fool people....sights, sounds, anything! Some people are more willing to accept it than others. I don't believe in god, angels, demons, the devil, ghosts, ect... Is it because I don't believe in those things that I've never experienced them, or is it because I've never experienced them that I don't believe in them? Honestly, I used to whole-heartedly believe in all the above except ghosts. But still, I never experienced anything supernatural. I just think critical minds are less likely to have "experiences". You haven't experienced anything, so maybe you're on your way to freedom from superstitious thought? Just a....thought!

[Guest Valk0010]

Truthfully I wouldn't worry about getting the info on the story, it is just a strange occurrence, just because it happened to be a christian is no more proof of truth then a mystical experience happening to someone of another belief system.

[dB-Paradox]

Fuck, this thread is interesting, but damn draining, too!

[Guest confused idiot]

Just curious....what do you think of all the UFO and alien abduction stories?

 

I don't know. I used to like to read stuff like that, but I was kinda gullible anyway.

 

Do you know anyone who's said they firsthand saw something?

 

No.

 

I know some people, and I don't believe them, either! But I think you need to let this go....studies have been done to show that people who are willing to accept some kind of evidence for something from someone else, having not experienced the event themselves, are more susceptible to mental illness.

 

Hey, makes sense. I'd say I'm susceptible to mental illness.

 

I honestly don't have a reference for you, it's something I heard once, and quite frankly, it makes sense. Why are you willing to accept someone else's experience as proof for something for your own life?

 

Something I need to constantly ask myself.

 

If you had experienced it, can you say for certain your mind would have interpreted the stimuli the same way?

 

Who knows.

 

In the "Voice From The Sky" thread, in the General Theological Issues forum, I told of how I've heard music coming from a radio or something. But instead of simply accepting that, I've critically sought out an answer to the sound. Turns out it was the sound of water rushing through pipes. From a distance, things can fool people....sights, sounds, anything! Some people are more willing to accept it than others. I don't believe in god, angels, demons, the devil, ghosts, ect... Is it because I don't believe in those things that I've never experienced them, or is it because I've never experienced them that I don't believe in them? Honestly, I used to whole-heartedly believe in all the above except ghosts. But still, I never experienced anything supernatural. I just think critical minds are less likely to have "experiences". You haven't experienced anything, so maybe you're on your way to freedom from superstitious thought? Just a....thought!

 

I haven't experienced anything supernatural as of yet, either. Doubt that will change, but it could.

[Guest confused idiot]

Fuck, this thread is interesting, but damn draining, too!

 

It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going.

[Guest Valk0010]

Fuck, this thread is interesting, but damn draining, too!

 

It's like the energizer bunny. It just keeps going and going and going.

[Guest Valk0010]

From Thomas Paine's the Age of Reason

 

A thing which everybody is required to believe, requires that the proof and evidence of it should be equal to all, and universal; and as the public visibility of this last related act was the only evidence that could give sanction to the former part, the whole of it falls to the ground, because that evidence never was given. Instead of this, a small number of persons, not more than eight or nine, are introduced as proxies for the whole world, to say they saw it, and all the rest of the world are called upon to believe it. But it appears that Thomas did not believe the resurrection, and, as they say, would not believe without having ocular and manual demonstration himself. So neither will I, and the reason is equally as good for me, and for every other person, as for Thomas.

[Guest confused idiot]

From Thomas Paine's the Age of Reason

 

A thing which everybody is required to believe, requires that the proof and evidence of it should be equal to all, and universal; and as the public visibility of this last related act was the only evidence that could give sanction to the former part, the whole of it falls to the ground, because that evidence never was given. Instead of this, a small number of persons, not more than eight or nine, are introduced as proxies for the whole world, to say they saw it, and all the rest of the world are called upon to believe it. But it appears that Thomas did not believe the resurrection, and, as they say, would not believe without having ocular and manual demonstration himself. So neither will I, and the reason is equally as good for me, and for every other person, as for Thomas.

 

Nice

[Guest confused idiot]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

[Guest Valk0010]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

[Guest confused idiot]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

 

EDIT: Now that I reread this post, I realise that it looks like I'm saying that these forums have not helped. That's not true at all, and it's not what I meant to say. Ever since I started coming here, this place has been a refuge for me. It's like church to me. What I meant to say was that my depression and anxiety has not eased up any, not that this site hasn't been a godsend (lol), because it has.

[Guest Valk0010]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

[Guest confused idiot]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

 

I've got an appointment with a shrink next month.

[Guest Valk0010]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

 

I've got an appointment with a shrink next month.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyay

[Guest confused idiot]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

 

I've got an appointment with a shrink next month.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyay

 

I thought I already mentioned that earlier in the thread.

 

Btw, there was another post here that I was gonna respond to, but it's now gone. What happened to it?

[Kris]

I totally understand your pain-- as I am going through much the same thing-- see my post "Still Struggling". One of my biggest battles with Christianity as a whole was the fact that I really did not like God/Jesus-- I felt this was even as a small child. I was terrified of him. I can never really say that I felt the sweet love of my heavenly father!! And, just like you, felt that he was always "out to get me" and that I was never going to be good enough for him. For me, my fears have centered around end-time stuff, probably because I was very influenced by this stuff as a young child. I just could not understand how God/Jesus wanted to put me through all of this bad stuff-- if he is so loving. And, just like you, my anxiety over my fears had begun to consume me.

 

I would love to be like some of the people on this site that stated that once they stopped believing, they had immediate peace. I don't think it will be like that for people like you and I. We are cut from the "worry-cloth" and it is really hard to change how you think about things. I have my good and bad days-- sometimes I wake up and think that I will be able to make it through the day without fixating on my "religious issues"-- and some days I do really well, and others I take a few steps back and get myself upset.

 

All I can tell you is that there are a lot of people on this site who want to help both of us try to reason through our fears. Oddly enough, these same people who have made the decision that they no longer need to believe in the bible or god have enough compassion in their hearts to want to help out a fellow human. To me, that says alot about humanity in general, and how you can be a great people with great values without divine direction. This alone validates to me that perhaps we are on the right path to enlightenment.

 

One thing that I do is ask myself-- do I really want to follow a god that scares the hell out of me? Do I want to spend eternity with him just to avoid hell? I can honestly say that my answer is no-- my true idea of heaven is living on this earth for as long as I can with my family-- just doing my day-to-day activities, and then finally passing away to a nice, peaceful nothingness. I think that if you and I can just get past our fears, we will be able to enjoy life so much more-- please don't give up, we can do this together!!

[Guest confused idiot]

I totally understand your pain-- as I am going through much the same thing-- see my post "Still Struggling". One of my biggest battles with Christianity as a whole was the fact that I really did not like God/Jesus-- I felt this was even as a small child. I was terrified of him. I can never really say that I felt the sweet love of my heavenly father!! And, just like you, felt that he was always "out to get me" and that I was never going to be good enough for him. For me, my fears have centered around end-time stuff, probably because I was very influenced by this stuff as a young child. I just could not understand how God/Jesus wanted to put me through all of this bad stuff-- if he is so loving. And, just like you, my anxiety over my fears had begun to consume me.

 

I would love to be like some of the people on this site that stated that once they stopped believing, they had immediate peace. I don't think it will be like that for people like you and I. We are cut from the "worry-cloth" and it is really hard to change how you think about things. I have my good and bad days-- sometimes I wake up and think that I will be able to make it through the day without fixating on my "religious issues"-- and some days I do really well, and others I take a few steps back and get myself upset.

 

All I can tell you is that there are a lot of people on this site who want to help both of us try to reason through our fears. Oddly enough, these same people who have made the decision that they no longer need to believe in the bible or god have enough compassion in their hearts to want to help out a fellow human. To me, that says alot about humanity in general, and how you can be a great people with great values without divine direction. This alone validates to me that perhaps we are on the right path to enlightenment.

 

One thing that I do is ask myself-- do I really want to follow a god that scares the hell out of me? Do I want to spend eternity with him just to avoid hell? I can honestly say that my answer is no-- my true idea of heaven is living on this earth for as long as I can with my family-- just doing my day-to-day activities, and then finally passing away to a nice, peaceful nothingness. I think that if you and I can just get past our fears, we will be able to enjoy life so much more-- please don't give up, we can do this together!!

 

It sucks, don't it? Feeling hopelessly trapped in such a depressing worldview without an escape. My heart goes out to anyone having to go through it.

[Guest Valk0010]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

 

I've got an appointment with a shrink next month.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyay

 

I thought I already mentioned that earlier in the thread.

 

Btw, there was another post here that I was gonna respond to, but it's now gone. What happened to it?

Members that donate money monthly have a ability to delete there posts. That is probably what happened.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

I thought I already mentioned that earlier in the thread.

 

Btw, there was another post here that I was gonna respond to, but it's now gone. What happened to it?

 

Maybe you did, I probably didn't see it.

[Guest confused idiot]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

 

I've got an appointment with a shrink next month.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyay

 

I thought I already mentioned that earlier in the thread.

 

Btw, there was another post here that I was gonna respond to, but it's now gone. What happened to it?

Members that donate money monthly have a ability to delete there posts. That is probably what happened.

 

Oh.

[Overcame Faith]

I won't get over this. I know I won't. I have to learn to live with the fear and anxiety. Because it won't go away. Ever. I have to make peace with the belief that I'm going to hell, whether I really am or not.

Part of deconverting, at least in my experience, is getting over that irrational fear, that you will burn, automatically now for being no longer a believer. Or you might burn for your position. Its tied very closely with the fear of being wrong. Takes time to get over, but I think you got the idea.

 

Time won't always do the trick. Studying and learning don't always help either. No matter how much I learn, no matter how much time goes by, I still have the constant anxiety that I'm being pursued by God. A God who I can never escape from. A God who, if I keep running, will cast me into everlasting torture, and if I give in and repent, will make me even more miserable with his mindfuck religion. I've been posting here three months and I'm not better. I've learned more, and I no longer call myself a Chriatian, but I'm still not better. Hell, I've only been here three months, the full problem has been going on in different stages for a long time. It pretty much began (but in a different stage) when I gave my life to Christ, which was three years ago. Time won't do the trick.

There is a reason why most of us said see a shrink.

 

But outside of that. It takes time it really does. In my case, I deconverted nov 9 09 and it took me almost 6 months to deal with the fear of hell. Its going to take you longer, but its not impossible. Don't give up my man.

 

I've got an appointment with a shrink next month.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyay

 

I thought I already mentioned that earlier in the thread.

 

Btw, there was another post here that I was gonna respond to, but it's now gone. What happened to it?

Members that donate money monthly have a ability to delete there posts. That is probably what happened.

 

Oh.

 

It was I who deleted my post. The more I thought about what I posted, the more I concluded it was not appropriate so I deleted it. You are obviously struggling greatly and I was afraid that my post might be too harsh - which was not my intention.

[Guest confused idiot]

It was I who deleted my post. The more I thought about what I posted, the more I concluded it was not appropriate so I deleted it. You are obviously struggling greatly and I was afraid that my post might be too harsh - which was not my intention.

 

 

Dude, don't worry about being too harsh. Give it your best shot. Be as brutal as you want, it's probably what I need to hear.

[Realist]

It sucks, don't it? Feeling hopelessly trapped in such a depressing worldview without an escape.

 

... fortunately there is an escape! It is called knowledge!

[Guest confused idiot]

It sucks, don't it? Feeling hopelessly trapped in such a depressing worldview without an escape.

 

... fortunately there is an escape! It is called knowledge!

 

And what if I don't buy the belief that there is no god? What good can knowledge do then?