In And Out Of Faith

[Guest Valk0010]

Boy, that is one serious question. ( For practicing Christians, that is. ) I am not sure I can answer that well. And I am not sure you would be happy with whatever I say. This is something I think about a lot.

 

try me, the holy spirit should be able to help you testify to the truth of the matter, if of course there is such a thing as holy spirit to begin with

[Shyone]

 

 

 

is a douche.

.

 

I think he's a corrupt bastard, a con man and should be shut down, put in prison.

 

 

I would say that is unwarranted hatred.

On the contray. He is a fraud, and dupes people out of money. He's no better than the psychics that defraud their clients, but he does it on a massive scale.

 

You are probably familiar with Peter Popoff. Is he one of God's messenger's too?

 

You are gullible. Credulous. I saw the question recently, "How can you identify a fraudulent faith healer?" The answer is that they claim to have the ability to heal via faith.

 

It's a friggin scam! Worst of all, not only does it not work, but it discourages people from getting real help.

 

Maybe you should ask yourself the question, "Why doesn't God heal Amputees?"

[Guest Valk0010]

 

On the contray. He is a fraud, and dupes people out of money. He's no better than the psychics that defraud their clients, but he does it on a massive scale.

 

You are probably familiar with Peter Popoff. Is he one of God's messenger's too?

 

You are gullible. Credulous. I saw the question recently, "How can you identify a fraudulent faith healer?" The answer is that they claim to have the ability to heal via faith.

 

It's a friggin scam! Worst of all, not only does it not work, but it discourages people from getting real help.

 

Maybe you should ask yourself the question, "Why doesn't God heal Amputees?"

 

God doesn't heal amputees because he doesn't want to, but he will heal a lady for grabbing at some clothes

 

I cry BS on the part of your god

[Guest Valk0010]

Are we still talking to this little troll who admires BENNY FUCKING HINN?

 

I must admit that I'm morbidly curious to see how he will top his last stupid remark. Just when I think he must be all out of stupid, he surprises me with a new one.

 

 

 

I see a lot of anger and bitterness on this board. It is not fun to come here.

 

I ask you to refrain from profanities - if possible.

Then why comes here,or is it, to be persecuted for your faith

 

Sometimes anger and bitterness on this board is more then just anger and bitterness, you called me a little mind for example

[oddbird1963]

Are we still talking to this little troll who admires BENNY FUCKING HINN?

 

I must admit that I'm morbidly curious to see how he will top his last stupid remark. Just when I think he must be all out of stupid, he surprises me with a new one.

I see a lot of anger and bitterness on this board. It is not fun to come here.

 

I ask you to refrain from profanities - if possible.

Then why comes here,or is it, to be persecuted for your faith

 

Sometimes anger and bitterness on this board is more then just anger and bitterness, you called me a little mind for example

 

Really, the assertion of " anger and bitterness " is just the response of a mind that has met its match intellectually. Rather than focus on what someone is saying, they focus on the perceived attitude of the person.

 

JayL has certainly demonstrated a lack of any practical rigor in his reasoning processes.

[JayL]

Are we still talking to this little troll who admires BENNY FUCKING HINN?

 

I must admit that I'm morbidly curious to see how he will top his last stupid remark. Just when I think he must be all out of stupid, he surprises me with a new one.

 

 

 

I see a lot of anger and bitterness on this board. It is not fun to come here.

 

I ask you to refrain from profanities - if possible.

Then why comes here,or is it, to be persecuted for your faith

 

Sometimes anger and bitterness on this board is more then just anger and bitterness, you called me a little mind for example

 

 

 

You know what, you do have a point! I think it is the time to say goodbye to people here. Yep. I have reached my 'chicken point'!! LOL LOL

 

It has been nice talking to you Val0019, Michael, Ouroborus, Dr. Shyone, etc.

 

Well, I should have known. What chance does a chicken have in an lion den?? Not much.

 

 

 

Good luck to you all. Best wishes for your future. I shall try to learn some lessons from time we shared here. Goodbye.

[Guest Valk0010]

Are we still talking to this little troll who admires BENNY FUCKING HINN?

 

I must admit that I'm morbidly curious to see how he will top his last stupid remark. Just when I think he must be all out of stupid, he surprises me with a new one.

 

 

 

I see a lot of anger and bitterness on this board. It is not fun to come here.

 

I ask you to refrain from profanities - if possible.

Then why comes here,or is it, to be persecuted for your faith

 

Sometimes anger and bitterness on this board is more then just anger and bitterness, you called me a little mind for example

 

 

 

You know what, you do have a point! I think it is the time to say goodbye to people here. Yep. I have reached my 'chicken point'!! LOL LOL

 

It has been nice talking to you Val0019, Michael, Ouroborus, Dr. Shyone, etc.

 

Well, I should have known. What chance does a chicken have in an lion den?? Not much.

 

 

 

Good luck to you all. Best wishes for your future. I shall try to learn some lessons from time we shared here. Goodbye.

Hope seriously you learned something, and I hope to see you again on here.

[JayL]

Are we still talking to this little troll who admires BENNY FUCKING HINN?

 

I must admit that I'm morbidly curious to see how he will top his last stupid remark. Just when I think he must be all out of stupid, he surprises me with a new one.

 

 

 

I see a lot of anger and bitterness on this board. It is not fun to come here.

 

I ask you to refrain from profanities - if possible.

Then why comes here,or is it, to be persecuted for your faith

 

Sometimes anger and bitterness on this board is more then just anger and bitterness, you called me a little mind for example

 

 

 

You know what, you do have a point! I think it is the time to say goodbye to people here. Yep. I have reached my 'chicken point'!! LOL LOL

 

It has been nice talking to you Val0019, Michael, Ouroborus, Dr. Shyone, etc.

 

Well, I should have known. What chance does a chicken have in an lion den?? Not much.

 

 

 

Good luck to you all. Best wishes for your future. I shall try to learn some lessons from time we shared here. Goodbye.

Hope seriously you learned something, and I hope to see you again on here.

 

 

Not likely. But best wishes to you.

[Snowflake]

 

 

is a douche.

.

 

I think he's a corrupt bastard, a con man and should be shut down, put in prison.

 

 

I would say that is unwarranted hatred.

I see that you totally ignored the bible verses that I posted.

 

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."{Mark 10:25 NIV}

 

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." {Matt 6:19-24 RSV}

What do these verses say about Benny Hinn?

 

Benny Hinn is obscenely wealthy and lives a very lavish lifestyle at the expense his sheep. He got this way by duping the masses for christ. His faith healing is bogus. He rakes in millions and lives a lavish lifestyle rather than putting the money into other uses such as feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, healing the sick with medicine and not bogus faith healing sessions, ect. I don't see the Bible supporting this shit in any way, shape or form. Do you?

 

His theology isn't even sound according to many. (and here)

 

And I agree with Shyone, it discourages people to get medical help. Anyone who continues to hold faith healing services with the knowledge that people are not getting necessary medical care because they are coming to these fake services is evil and needs to be shut down. http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_2340.shtml

 

But will you look at the links, or is your mind already made up?

[Dagan]

So, is the sock puppet show over then?

[Guest Valk0010]

So, is the sock puppet show over then?

I think so, a toast of internet wine

 

[Michael]

I have not been to a rock concert but I enjoyed a couple of large healing crusades I attended ( Benny Hinn ). I really have not thought a lot this issue of group dynamic. I was born again in 1996 and at the time I was not going to church nor meeting with Christians. I did not join a church till 1999.

 

So was it intellectual thinking that made you lose faith while in the group?

 

Hi JayL,

 

my problem in church were two things.

1. There was a gap between the talking about gods power and love and intervention and the real power, love and intervention. During group meetings we were talking about the god that created the world, would heal the sick and cast out demons (to him everything is possible), we were talking about a loving father who understood everything and had a special plan for everyone. The reality in xianity showed me no more miracles than non xians experienced. With god we have prayed for money and sometimes we got it. Without god we hoped to get money and sometimes we got it. We asked god to heal us and sometimes he healed us. Without god we hoped to get well soon and sometimes we have got well soon. We asked god to help us in our jobs and sometimes he helped us in our jobs. Without god we hoped, that our job would become better and sometimes it became better. I always hoped that god would become real. Do you know Kevin Prosch?

"Oh how can I be satisfied unless you come real and stay by my side? There has to be more." I wanted to see the wonders of god the people were talking about, but in the end it was disappointing. I have expected to much? From the creator of the universe? Would it have been better to expect less?

2. We have always said, that the bible is the word of god, from the first verse to the last. Then I discovered, that there is stuff inside the bible that can not be true. I discovered, that the bible had mistakes, contradictions and strange ideas about justice and humanity. I was afraid of the OT god, because of his violence, his blowups, his unpredictability. You would never know when it is right or enough. It needed a great, great intellectual effort to pull ot and nt together. How could I know, that my interpretation of the bible were the right one?

 

Two big xian meetings really pissed me off. As I have mentioned I am interested in sociology and the psychology of groups, so I know a little bit about the way you can manipulate groups. I went to a missionary congress and experienced a speaker that manipulated the 3000 people with simple methods. He created an "outpouring of the spirit" in 30 minutes just with emotional- and group pressure. It was a sad evening. The second meeting was Benny Hinn in Cologne. I thought that this man would be great, but the evening (together with 15.000 xians) was the greatest scam I have ever seen. It was all about money and everything was designed to support the "healing power" and the godlikeness of Benny Hinn. He was an asshole and if god should use this man or Rheinhard Bonnke as his favorite tool than god would work with manipulating criminals. The only one that is still impressing me is Heidi Baker. Do not know why.

 

I am sorry to hear, that you want to leave, but I can understand. You can survive here only with openness. Throwing around with old phrases and arguments wont help. If you have doubts and questions, people will love to discuss with you, but no one wants to be preached at. You have to deal with many ex-xians at one time. You might probably try to get into a one on one discussion to keep it simpler for you. It is not fun to fight five or ten opponents at the same time.

 

Wish you all the best.

[Realist]

I would say that is unwarranted hatred.

 

.... I myself cannot see a much higher level of hatred than telling complete strangers they are hell bound! Then with complete arrogance mixed in??

[JayL]

I have not been to a rock concert but I enjoyed a couple of large healing crusades I attended ( Benny Hinn ). I really have not thought a lot this issue of group dynamic. I was born again in 1996 and at the time I was not going to church nor meeting with Christians. I did not join a church till 1999.

 

So was it intellectual thinking that made you lose faith while in the group?

 

Hi JayL,

 

my problem in church were two things.

1. There was a gap between the talking about gods power and love and intervention and the real power, love and intervention. During group meetings we were talking about the god that created the world, would heal the sick and cast out demons (to him everything is possible), we were talking about a loving father who understood everything and had a special plan for everyone. The reality in xianity showed me no more miracles than non xians experienced. With god we have prayed for money and sometimes we got it. Without god we hoped to get money and sometimes we got it. We asked god to heal us and sometimes he healed us. Without god we hoped to get well soon and sometimes we have got well soon. We asked god to help us in our jobs and sometimes he helped us in our jobs. Without god we hoped, that our job would become better and sometimes it became better. I always hoped that god would become real. Do you know Kevin Prosch?

"Oh how can I be satisfied unless you come real and stay by my side? There has to be more." I wanted to see the wonders of god the people were talking about, but in the end it was disappointing. I have expected to much? From the creator of the universe? Would it have been better to expect less?

2. We have always said, that the bible is the word of god, from the first verse to the last. Then I discovered, that there is stuff inside the bible that can not be true. I discovered, that the bible had mistakes, contradictions and strange ideas about justice and humanity. I was afraid of the OT god, because of his violence, his blowups, his unpredictability. You would never know when it is right or enough. It needed a great, great intellectual effort to pull ot and nt together. How could I know, that my interpretation of the bible were the right one?

 

Two big xian meetings really pissed me off. As I have mentioned I am interested in sociology and the psychology of groups, so I know a little bit about the way you can manipulate groups. I went to a missionary congress and experienced a speaker that manipulated the 3000 people with simple methods. He created an "outpouring of the spirit" in 30 minutes just with emotional- and group pressure. It was a sad evening. The second meeting was Benny Hinn in Cologne. I thought that this man would be great, but the evening (together with 15.000 xians) was the greatest scam I have ever seen. It was all about money and everything was designed to support the "healing power" and the godlikeness of Benny Hinn. He was an asshole and if god should use this man or Rheinhard Bonnke as his favorite tool than god would work with manipulating criminals. The only one that is still impressing me is Heidi Baker. Do not know why.

 

I am sorry to hear, that you want to leave, but I can understand. You can survive here only with openness. Throwing around with old phrases and arguments wont help. If you have doubts and questions, people will love to discuss with you, but no one wants to be preached at. You have to deal with many ex-xians at one time. You might probably try to get into a one on one discussion to keep it simpler for you. It is not fun to fight five or ten opponents at the same time.

 

Wish you all the best.

 

 

 

Hey Michael,

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I am back! No. Not really. But I do have to thank you for being the only civil person on this board! I really enjoyed your comments! But the level of profanities got to me finally. I mean there are people here who curse people out on every single post they write!!! It is amazing. I guess they are truly angry!!! LOL Another thing is that even the people who ask serious question do not seem to be interested in my answer. They immediately attack me for being stupid. Oh well. A regret in my participation was that I flew off my handles as well and called someone 'little mind'. I do regret that.

 

 

Anyhow thank you the above writing and very best wishes to you. I gotta chicken outta here before the barrage starts again!

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

 

 

Hey Michael,

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I am back! No. Not really. But I do have to thank you for being the only civil person on this board! I really enjoyed your comments! But the level of profanities got to me finally. I mean there are people here who curse people out on every single post they write!!! It is amazing. I guess they are truly angry!!! LOL Another thing is that even the people who ask serious question do not seem to be interested in my answer. They immediately attack me for being stupid. Oh well. A regret in my participation was that I flew off my handles as well and called someone 'little mind'. I do regret that.

 

 

Anyhow thank you the above writing and very best wishes to you. I gotta chicken outta here before the barrage starts again!

 

Hey I would like to still have a dialogue with you, I do use some profanity and I apologize

 

But its free world, and if you don't like it here that is your choice

[Michael]

My famous last words: If you want to remain a xian, it is not a good idea to post in forums like this one. Stay close to the flock, talk with mature xians about your doubts, find a couple of nice xian friends and be content. Aks xians for their advice and get into some ministry were you do not have to question your ideas (like evangelism and mission). Help school kids, feed the hungry...this kind of ministry. Faith can be quiet unstable when you are in the wrong environment.

[Guest Valk0010]

My famous last words: If you want to remain a xian, it is not a good idea to post in forums like this one. Stay close to the flock, talk with mature xians about your doubts, find a couple of nice xian friends and be content. Aks xians for their advice and get into some ministry were you do not have to question your ideas (like evangelism and mission). Help school kids, feed the hungry...this kind of ministry. Faith can be quiet unstable when you are in the wrong environment.

I have to agree

[bdp]

Jay -

 

Profanity doesn't equate to incivility.

 

Benny Hinn is prostituting your religion and god - I marvel that you're not pissed off over it. It pisses me off because it's the religion and god of many of my friends and some of my family - sad that it bothers me more than you.

 

And if you don't like certain people's demeanor there's this thing called the 'ignore' button.

[Thackerie]

Are we still talking to this little troll who admires BENNY FUCKING HINN?

 

I must admit that I'm morbidly curious to see how he will top his last stupid remark. Just when I think he must be all out of stupid, he surprises me with a new one.

 

.... yes, I have to admit I now only come back to this posting for my wake-up laughs for the new day!!

 

 

Me, too!

 

Well, to be honest, I start my day off with fstdt.net to get in my daily laughs at the fundies. Then, I come here. Sometimes I learn new stuff from my fellow ex-christians. Sometimes I am amazed and amused by the christian guests. It's all good.

[par4dcourse]

Where oh where has my little Jay gone?

Oh where oh where can he be?

With his thoughts so short and his dogma so long,

Oh where oh where can he be?

[Deva]

Where oh where has my little Jay gone?

Oh where oh where can he be?

With his thoughts so short and his dogma so long,

Oh where oh where can he be?

 

This poseur was good only for laughs. Why do I continue to take these trolls seriously?

[oddbird1963]

Where oh where has my little Jay gone?

Oh where oh where can he be?

With his thoughts so short and his dogma so long,

Oh where oh where can he be?

 

This poseur was good only for laughs. Why do I continue to take these trolls seriously?

 

 

Maybe you are like me and hope that they will start to express a glimmer of reason?

[Deva]

Maybe you are like me and hope that they will start to express a glimmer of reason?

 

I don't know oddbird. I haven't seen it yet and you know how long I have been here.

[par4dcourse]

 

I have proof of god and you're going to hell.

Isn't that special.

[florduh]

Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, and Tits.

 

It had to be said. Sorry.