Antlerman Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Ok boys and girls, the school is back in session. The teacher is back. Ask questions - but one at a time. And please no profanities! OK child, impress me. Make it quick. I smell your crap. Tell me your testimony. What made you a believer. I'm listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Folks, I can smell trolls miles away. It took me just a couple glances at what this poser was saying to sniff him out. If you wish to just have fun with him, I'll leave him for you to kick your heels against (for what I don't know actually, since he's not real). Nod your head and he's toast. I had him set to go on 40 days and 40 nights mod preview (poetic biblical reference ), but I'll leave in in your hands. What say you? Spare him for your pleasure? He seems like a harmless troll. To me at least, although he has certainly pissed off lunaticheathen. Even insane people can be interesting. He's intelligent and, although clearly "way out there" with respect to his concepts of the bible and theology, he is at least not completely ignorant of the Hebrew Lexicon. Poser? Perhaps. I'm more concerned that his interaction with this group has become dominated by arrogant remarks rather than intelligent discourse. I give my proxy to lunaticheathen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 < John 14:12-14 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. WOW!!!! God can do ANYTHING? --S. Anything?? I think not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 [color="#FF0000" He seems like a harmless troll. To me at least, although he has certainly pissed off lunaticheathen. I give my proxy to lunaticheathen. I think she is always pissed off. There is something wrong with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 < John 14:12-14 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. WOW!!!! God can do ANYTHING? --S. Anything?? I think not ! Okay, I will ask the question I asked in the questions for mr jayl thread I started If he is not all powerful, is he not then in your eyes all knowing and everywhere If he is not all powerful then what makes him god Just that he can through lightening bolts on command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 [color="#FF0000" He seems like a harmless troll. To me at least, although he has certainly pissed off lunaticheathen. I give my proxy to lunaticheathen. I think she is always pissed off. There is something wrong with that one. She is actually a nice person, you just managed to get her into a rage like you did near the end of our convo last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Do you love god with all your heart soul mind and strength? Do you ever lie? Do you consider everyone your equal? Do you consider people more important than money? There is nothing"wrong" with Luna. She is a sensitive person that has been traumatised by assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK child, impress me. Make it quick. I smell your crap. Tell me your testimony. What made you a believer. I'm listening. I like to. But I find your picture to be too scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 If he's real, then he is a half-pint version of the one foot over the sanity edge Ssel, who is long before you time here. At least he was more intelligent, if not just insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK child, impress me. Make it quick. I smell your crap. Tell me your testimony. What made you a believer. I'm listening. I like to. But I find your picture to be too scary. I'll be generous. Tell us who you are and I won't ban your IP address, and if you are a regular member here you'll find yourself homeless if I do that. No mod, including the Webmaster of the site appreciates fakers. We'll let it slide this time. Like I said, impress me or say goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK child, impress me. Make it quick. I smell your crap. Tell me your testimony. What made you a believer. I'm listening. I like to. But I find your picture to be too scary. I'll be generous. Tell us who you are and I won't ban your IP address, and if you are a regular member here you'll find yourself homeless if I do that. No mod, including the Webmaster of the site appreciates fakers. We'll let it slide this time. Like I said, impress me or say goodbye. The kind tiger shows his teeth lol mee kidding sorry if you take offense Thanks for your response in absolute certainty fact and faith by the way, helped alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Ahh... alright. Thanks for coming clean. It's not something we like here. You're an OK guy. Not to do again, OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Okay, I will ask the question I asked in the questions for mr jayl thread I started If he is not all powerful, is he not then in your eyes all knowing and everywhere If he is not all powerful then what makes him god Just that he can through lightening bolts on command The reason why I am opposed to these philosophical categories like 'omnipotence, omnipresence, etc.' is that I find these words next to meaningless. It is like 'let's talk about infinity'. To define God by these words really confuses the issue, IMO. By the way, I believe those Bible verses people have quoted. But I cannot really fathom what they mean. I think about them, I memorize them, and I live my life based on those verses. But do they mean that God can do anything?? Like preventing Adam and Even from eating the fruits of forbidden tree? I am not certain at all. All in all, I'd rather not use terms like 'omnipotent' etc. because meaning and applications are far from clear. "If He is not all powerful, why is He God?' What are we talking about here? You start with a definition and because I disagree with the definition, you have nothing else. God is not a philosophical concept. God is real and He is a person. People need to seek out to experience God themselves. Luckily, I have had some direct experience with God. So I don't need to think God as 'omnipotent being'. I think of God as 'that person who spoke to me'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Okay, I will ask the question I asked in the questions for mr jayl thread I started If he is not all powerful, is he not then in your eyes all knowing and everywhere If he is not all powerful then what makes him god Just that he can through lightening bolts on command The reason why I am opposed to these philosophical categories like 'omnipotence, omnipresence, etc.' is that I find these words next to meaningless. It is like 'let's talk about infinity'. To define God by these words really confuses the issue, IMO. By the way, I believe those Bible verses people have quoted. But I cannot really fathom what they mean. I think about them, I memorize them, and I live my life based on those verses. But do they mean that God can do anything?? Like preventing Adam and Even from eating the fruits of forbidden tree? I am not certain at all. All in all, I'd rather not use terms like 'omnipotent' etc. because meaning and applications are far from clear. "If He is not all powerful, why is He God?' What are we talking about here? You start with a definition and because I disagree with the definition, you have nothing else. God is not a philosophical concept. God is real and He is a person. People need to seek out to experience God themselves. Luckily, I have had some direct experience with God. So I don't need to think God as 'omnipotent being'. I think of God as 'that person who spoke to me'. ...so ALL you have is a subjective experience that I can't possibly experience myself or relate to. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 If he's real, then he is a half-pint version of the one foot over the sanity edge Ssel, who is long before you time here. At least he was more intelligent, if not just insane. No, I have not used any other screen name. But to me, it would be Ok if you want to ban me. The things I say may not be welcome here. ( Also I got my share of profanity and curses as well. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Okay, I will ask the question I asked in the questions for mr jayl thread I started If he is not all powerful, is he not then in your eyes all knowing and everywhere If he is not all powerful then what makes him god Just that he can through lightening bolts on command The reason why I am opposed to these philosophical categories like 'omnipotence, omnipresence, etc.' is that I find these words next to meaningless. It is like 'let's talk about infinity'. To define God by these words really confuses the issue, IMO. By the way, I believe those Bible verses people have quoted. But I cannot really fathom what they mean. I think about them, I memorize them, and I live my life based on those verses. But do they mean that God can do anything?? Like preventing Adam and Even from eating the fruits of forbidden tree? I am not certain at all. All in all, I'd rather not use terms like 'omnipotent' etc. because meaning and applications are far from clear. "If He is not all powerful, why is He God?' What are we talking about here? You start with a definition and because I disagree with the definition, you have nothing else. God is not a philosophical concept. God is real and He is a person. People need to seek out to experience God themselves. Luckily, I have had some direct experience with God. So I don't need to think God as 'omnipotent being'. I think of God as 'that person who spoke to me'. Take my next question then What makes your experience more valuable as a truth claim, to the veracity of a particular religion then say the muslim on his hajj to mecca's experiences or there experiences in prayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 [color="#FF0000" He seems like a harmless troll. To me at least, although he has certainly pissed off lunaticheathen. I give my proxy to lunaticheathen. I think she is always pissed off. There is something wrong with that one. You're what's wrong with me. But you might just be a troll. From now on, I leave you to Ceiling Cat's wrath. NO CHEEZBURGRZ 4 U, LOL!!!! DIEZ, HEATHIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Ahh... alright. Thanks for coming clean. It's not something we like here. You're an OK guy. Not to do again, OK? Its not me I swear I couldn't do that to you guys If I am misunderstanding this forgive me The tiger line was a joke nothing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Luke 1:37 " For nothing will be impossible with God." So what does this quote mean to you?? That God is 'omnipotent and omnipresent'?? It may help to read these verses in context. I've studied the verse in detail and in context. You're pulling answers out of your ass, ad hoc. And I am right. Because I say so. You have no basis for believing your views on omnipotence are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 I think that evolution is corrosive to Christian doctrine, if you accept evolution. Prove how its not corrosive to Christianity. Your chose on which one to start with Those are such big topics I am a bit at a loss. I will start with evolution. Yes, the way Darwinian evolution is taught in schools - totally random, no purpose evolutionary change - is clearly corrosive to Christian faith. I do accept fossil evidences, tree of life, etc. But I am clearly on the side of theistic evolution. I believe God intervened in genetic codes of primates to create humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Take my next question then What makes your experience more valuable as a truth claim, to the veracity of a particular religion then say the muslim on his hajj to mecca's experiences or there experiences in prayer I certainly cannot say that my experience is more valid than others. What I CAN say is that my experiences were quite shocking to me and they affected my life quite profoundly. In general, these personal experience and testimonies are the heart of Christianity. Christianity does not revolve around philosophical concepts like omnipotence and omnipresence. It revolves around miracles, personal transformations, personal experience of daily life, etc. So one may quote some Bible verses. But rather than translating them to philosophical categories, it is better to ask 'what does this particular verse mean to me??' Does this verse speak to me? Christianity is very experience based. I guess that is one reason I was attracted to this website. I was curious to read 'deconversion testimonies.' There is something about a person honestly sharing his experiences and conclusions he has reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 God is real and He is a person. People need to seek out to experience God themselves. Luckily, I have had some direct experience with God. So I don't need to think God as 'omnipotent being'. I think of God as 'that person who spoke to me'. You are dodging the issue. You call something philosophical only to avoid dealing with the meaning of concepts you can't handle. You say, 'god is real.' But, you don't want to explore that statement further. Why is what you say meaningful? What do you mean by "Person" when that "person" does not exist in any sense of he word that most people mean "exist?" To delve any deeper beyond mere pixels on a screen with you necessitates getting philosophical. But, if we use words that challenge you, you suddenly eschew philosophy. You're not intellectually honest. All you are giving us is "you need to seek out and experience God yourself." I say, "Can I hear a duh?" You're forgetting many here have years invested in Christianity where God was sought. He just didn't show up. You say god is "the person who spoke to me." There are so many cogent explanations for what you experienced that have nothing to do with god. Again, what is your definition of god? And why should we believe a thing you say? And please stop dismissing our own past experiences because, clearly, you don't know what you are talking about when you urge people to "seek out to experience God themselves." I am sure that the vast majority of ex-C's here HAVE seriously, over a long period of time sought God for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 I really think you'd make a good Mormon. Thank you so much. But I may be too informal to be a Mormon. I am happy in a Vineyard Fellowship for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 God is real and He is a person. You are dodging the issue. You call something philosophical only to avoid dealing with the meaning of concepts you can't handle. You say, 'god is real.' But, you don't want to explore that statement further. Why is what you say meaningful? What do you mean by "Person" when that "person" does not exist in any sense of he word that most people mean "exist?" To delve any deeper beyond mere pixels on a screen with you necessitates getting philosophical. But, if we use words that challenge you, you suddenly eschew philosophy. You're not intellectually honest. All you are giving us is "you need to seek out and experience God yourself." I say, "Can I hear a duh?" You're forgetting many here have years invested in Christianity where God was sought. He just didn't show up. You say god is "the person who spoke to me." There are so many cogent explanations for what you experienced that have nothing to do with god. Again, what is your definition of god? And why should we believe a thing you say? And please stop dismissing our own past experiences because, clearly, you don't know what you are talking about when you urge people to "seek out to experience God themselves." I am sure that the vast majority of ex-C's here HAVE seriously, over a long period of time sought God for themselves. I do apologize if I sounded dismissive. But, yes, it is true. I cannot handle those philosophical categories. I think they are intellectual traps. It is like one poster accusing God of being a murderer by using those concepts. All I can say is, Huh?? Yeah, I cannot handle those categories. I cannot fathom what they mean. But I suspect the other poster can not either. I am glad to hear that many other have seriously sought God and 'wrestled' with their faiths. I put myself in there as well. I have been in and out of Christianity a few times. And do I know which is ultimately correct? Not with complete certainty. But I do think that the experiential aspect is what drives the faith of Christianity. I would say that is more so than in other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Again, what is your definition of god? And why should we believe a thing you say? Well, my definition would go like, God is a supernatural being whose nature is love. I believe this small definition is consistent with the Bible and also supported by my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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