In And Out Of Faith

[JayL]

 

So, if the God of the Bible is so utterly all powerful and transcendent, why couldn't he just forgive them and avoid the thousands of years of misery to come. Or for that matter, why tempt them with the tree at all? There would be no need for Christ's sacrifice.

 

Judging by how the fall of man makes no sense,I have to call bullshit on Judaism, Christianity and Islam. If there's an all powerful God, it isn't the narrowminded sadistic bully of the bible and koran. And you know what? I don't care if I'm wrong.

If bible god is the true god, I'd rather go to hell than bow to that sadist forever.

 

 

 

 

See? There you go again. Who says "God of the Bible is all powerful'?? And what does that mean to you? That God can do anything? That sounds familiar!!!

 

 

When does this stop? I mean, where do these people get these ideas? Well, from other respected Christians... Yep.

[JayL]

 

I think Allah and JHWH are very similar. Just as violent. Israel killed millions of people (already back then), in the name of God. That's violent. And I'm sure you support that. So what does it make you? Just as bad as any Muslim today.

 

And you're really stuck on the Muslims, aren't you? Basically, so far, what I can hear is that you are a Christian because you are so frigging pissed at the Muslims. Islam is sooooooo evil that Christianity must be true. Am I right?

 

 

 

Of course you are wrong. Islam is so evil that Christianity must be true? Who said that?? That is a stupid statement. What I am saying is this: Most of monothestic faiths are bad - Judaism and Islam, to be specific. Both are unacceptable to modern people. So I say, Moses and Mohammed must go. But the third one, Christianity holds up pretty well because of Jesus Christ.

 

Have you ever noticed all these people on this board keep bringing up Old Testament and Islam to attack Christianity? Over and over again? Nobody brings up Jesus - or rarely. Because if they bring up Jesus, the whole conversation changes. Jesus Christ shines thru and people feel not so hurt like they do now. Once people start to discuss the new testament, they don't feel so angry. They actually find a lot of good things in it.

 

That is why people should be Christians and not Ultra orthodox Jews or fundamentalist muslims. Or there is always Buddhism if you are sick of monotheism...... Of course, remaining agnostic or atheist is also a viable options.

[Vigile]

But nobody follows Moses and we don't follow any rules God laid out in the Old Testament! So why worry about it?

 

 

You guys are like junior high school history students arguing how horrible America is because we nuked Hiroshima. My stance is, hey, enjoy the country we have now and try to do what is right today.

 

Let's follow your logic:

 

God is the same yesterday and today; he doesn't change, yet you say, hell, why worry about it, it's old news. Then you implore us to just pay attention the the NT, which offers us a guilt trip for natural, normal biological impulses, among other things and offers a plan of salvation that is akin to the Corleone offer you can't refuse and you say we are like Jr high kids? No, you just aren't very good with logic or, as I've already mentioned, you've turned your brain off out of fear and you want us to do the same.

[Vigile]

if they bring up Jesus, the whole conversation changes

 

Fine, let's bring him up, he was an asshole:

 

Sermon on the mount:

 

28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

He just made every straight person on the planet an adulterer. If he made us then he's admitting to a design flaw? And why is god such a prude anyway? Sex is a natural biological function; without it ours and every other species wouldn't propagate.

 

29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away.

 

'spose this one is not to be taken literally right? How do you determine where analogy ends and literal meaning begins? I know, the holy ghost, right? Then why are there 19,000 some odd sects in the protestant faith?

 

39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

Brilliant advice this one. Modern day translation, get out the K-Y and grab your ankles.

 

26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.

 

 

I could go on, but I'm bored.

[Ouroboros]

I think Allah and JHWH are very similar. Just as violent. Israel killed millions of people (already back then), in the name of God. That's violent. And I'm sure you support that. So what does it make you? Just as bad as any Muslim today.

 

And you're really stuck on the Muslims, aren't you? Basically, so far, what I can hear is that you are a Christian because you are so frigging pissed at the Muslims. Islam is sooooooo evil that Christianity must be true. Am I right?

Of course you are wrong. Islam is so evil that Christianity must be true? Who said that?? That is a stupid statement. What I am saying is this: Most of monothestic faiths are bad - Judaism and Islam, to be specific. Both are unacceptable to modern people. So I say, Moses and Mohammed must go. But the third one, Christianity holds up pretty well because of Jesus Christ.

But, the problem is that you keep on getting stuck on only those options. What about Buddhism. What is evil about Buddhism... I know your answer: "Islam is evil."

 

That's how you have answered 9 out of 10 questions. Your response is "Islam is evil, therefore..." and not really responding to the questions themselves.

 

We heard you the first time. You totally HATE Islam. And I think Islam is very despicable too. You totally LOVE Christianity and whitewash everything bad about it. But I think Christianity is pretty damaged goods too. I know you don't see it, but I don't think Christianity really holds up. And I know you didn't even care to look at the links I gave you several days ago. Probably because you can't face the reality of what some Christians do... oh, wait, they're not True Christians™, so they shouldn't be included. :duh:

 

Have you ever noticed all these people on this board keep bringing up Old Testament and Islam to attack Christianity? Over and over again?

They actually brought up other religions than Islam, but you kept on defending your position by bring Islam up on the table again. If someone mentioned Santa Claus, you answered: "Islam is evil!" If they brought up Zeus and Thor, you responded: "Islam is EVIL!" So no, it's not just them bringing it up. You're doing a fair share of it.

 

And when it comes to the Old Testament, I wonder how well you really have thought about this. When Jesus cited the Old Testament, and Paul said the scriptures were inspired by God, did they talk about the New Testament (before it was written), or the Torah and the other Jewish holy scriptures?

 

Nobody brings up Jesus - or rarely. Because if they bring up Jesus, the whole conversation changes. Jesus Christ shines thru and people feel not so hurt like they do now. Once people start to discuss the new testament, they don't feel so angry. They actually find a lot of good things in it.

Okay. Let's bring up Jesus.

 

Jesus said something about that you had to hate your father and mother to follow him, and also that you had to sell all things you own and give to the poor, or you would not be considered a true follower. Have you done these things?

 

Jesus also promised that he would bring war and conflict to the world.

 

Besides, if Jesus was a fluffy teddy bear, what does that do to the message from God? Was Buddha violent? Was Zoroaster violent? Is Rael violent? Just because the "prophet" teaches peace, it doesn't make the message from God. It's a nice and cute message, but it only resonates true for a person for whom it fits.

 

That is why people should be Christians and not Ultra orthodox Jews or fundamentalist muslims. Or there is always Buddhism if you are sick of monotheism......

Do you pray to Jesus? Probably you do. So it means more to you than just a symbolic make-me-feel-good ideal. It's more than just a cute thing to do because it makes you feel happy. It's impossible for me to make myself believe in some invisible person in the sky, just because it is cute.

 

Anyway, going back to Jesus's message. He was a socialist. Why don't the majority of Christians in USA strive for a more socialized system? Why are they so radically individualists and egotists? You know that they shared everything. You know that Jesus talked about giving to the poor and sacrifice yourself. But how many do this? Do you? Are you a Christian republican (false Christian) or a Christian socialist (true Christian)? So which is it? Was Jesus a capitalist or a communist?

[Shyone]

Rather than attempt to reply to any single thread or multiple threads, I have collected soem things that JayL wrote. I see some of these an inhuman, some are contradictory, and some are just downright pitiful.

 

Below (and sometimes above) each quote, I offer my interpretation.

 

Because according to the Bible, it is very easy to avoid the hell.

 

It's easy? It's hard? It's virtually impossible? It's all in there. Have you really read the bible?

 

Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

 

Now you have a choice. Either you receive that gift of peace in Jesus Christ or go back to blaming and accusing God using your own justice scale. I chose the former. If you choose the latter, you may have the scary excitement of finding out the consequence of your choice after you die.

 

For me, I am a chicken. I don't want terrifying excitement of visiting hell. On those Old Testament 'crimes', I just don't know enough to judge what happened. So I won't argue. I am a pragmatist. I just like this 'peace with God' that I have in my life. That is why I am a Christian.

 

You have turned a blind eye to the "crimes" of the Old Testament and claim ignorance, but you do know right from wrong. You know good from bad. You are just too afraid to even consider that the genocidal, capricious and indiscriminate killing supposedly done by God or ordered by God are immoral. But they are.

 

You admit that you are ruled by fear. How pitiful that is to hear. Even if hell were something real, it is still pitiful. It is you who have been taught this and minipulated by this lie, and even you know it was wrong. As you wrote:

 

So if you say that parents are teaching their children to 'fear hell', I have some problem with that

 

That's you there, taught about hell, threatened into believing, too scared to even consider that it's all a con job.

 

For example, if people decides to reject the gift of salvation in Jesus Christ, there is nothing God can do to stop them from falling into hell along with Satan and evil angels. Does that make Him a criminal? I don't think so.

 

How weak is this god of yours that can make a universe, but can't be bothered with helping someone who needs it - either on earth or elsewhere? You make this sound like a clear choice: There is a gun pointed at your head. Say you love me, or I'll pull the trigger. But there is no gun to be seen or felt. And love doesn't come at the end of a barrel.

 

Yeah, pretty much. When it comes to hell, I'd rather play safe. I don't want to be a hero. Sorry.

 

It's almost ironic that you reject the Muslim hell, which is at least as bad as the Christian Hell. Do you believe in whoever or whatever religion has the worst hell so you can avoid it? You are a sad little man if that's the way you make your choices in life.

 

The God of the Bible can NOT do anything.

 

I'm sure you meant to say that God can not do everything, but taking this sentence literally, out of context, as written, it's true. God can NOT do anything. Not one thing. Nothing. He is absolutely impotent because he does not exist, but if you look at what he could be doing if he existed, he's pretty much doing nothing. Which is exactly what a nonexistent god would do.

 

Oh yeah. God can turn himself into Satan. Because He is God. Duh!

 

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

 

Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

 

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made everything for his own ends, even the wicked for the evil day."

 

It is not that He is evil. He just sees you less than perfect. You are defective, my friend, according to His extremely high standards. And thus you cannot have eternal life. That is the way God sees it.

 

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

One who boasts of his own self-righteousness and perfection is - a Pharisee.

 

Proverbs 27:1 Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth.

 

James 4:16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

 

Luqman [31.18] And do not turn your face away from people in contempt, nor go about in the land exulting overmuch; surely Allah does not love any self-conceited boaster;

 

You may think you are Ok and guiltless but God is not happy with you.

 

And you pretend to know the mind of God. Such arrogance.

 

As you cower in fear and brag about your perfection, maybe you should reconsider Pascal's Wager. If you are the product of God's Love, there is something seriously wrong with this situation.

[Shyone]

 

So, if the God of the Bible is so utterly all powerful and transcendent, why couldn't he just forgive them and avoid the thousands of years of misery to come. Or for that matter, why tempt them with the tree at all? There would be no need for Christ's sacrifice.

 

Judging by how the fall of man makes no sense,I have to call bullshit on Judaism, Christianity and Islam. If there's an all powerful God, it isn't the narrowminded sadistic bully of the bible and koran. And you know what? I don't care if I'm wrong.

If bible god is the true god, I'd rather go to hell than bow to that sadist forever.

 

 

 

 

See? There you go again. Who says "God of the Bible is all powerful'?? And what does that mean to you? That God can do anything? That sounds familiar!!!

 

 

When does this stop? I mean, where do these people get these ideas? Well, from other respected Christians... Yep.

What do you think "Almighty" means?

 

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

 

Seriously, you have created your own theology that is quite different from other sects of Christianity. Are they wrong? How do you know?

 

Yes, these "ideas" come from other Christians, but I have to agree that the biblical god is described in ways that, at least at times, make him seem omnipotent.

 

Other times he's a bumbling idiot, a mean motherfucker too. (God fucked his own mother, Mary).

[centauri]

Have you ever noticed all these people on this board keep bringing up Old Testament and Islam to attack Christianity? Over and over again? Nobody brings up Jesus - or rarely.

Because if they bring up Jesus, the whole conversation changes. Jesus Christ shines thru and people feel not so hurt like they do now.

This is your Jesus fetish on display.

If you believe Jesus is God, then Jesus is the Old Testament deity, fully involved in everything that happened.

You're using a bad cop - good cop rationalization to keep Jesus pristine.

You have consistently ignored anything that conflicts with your rosy portrayal of Jesus.

Nothing can stop it, you just go on and on, repeating the same fluffy Jesus talking point over and over again.

[Ouroboros]

JayL,

 

From a recent article (link):

The idea of witchcraft is hardly new, but it has taken on new life recently partly because of a rapid growth in evangelical Christianity. Campaigners against the practice say around 15,000 children have been accused in two of Nigeria's 36 states over the past decade and around 1,000 have been murdered. In the past month alone, three Nigerian children accused of witchcraft were killed and another three were set on fire.

 

Holy Crap how "nice" and "cute" Christians are! Christianity really makes people "good," doesn't it?

[Vigile]

Why don't the majority of Christians in USA strive for a more socialized system?

 

And on that note, why do they insist on praying from the hilltops, making national days of prayer and crying because they can't force teachers to perform warm up prayers in school? Did Jesus not say that prayer should be an intimate thing to be done in a closet?

 

And why is it that xians insist on making laws that force xian beliefs on society instead of just being a light on a hill top or salt of the earth? Demanding your way and then crying when you don't get it is the opposite of what he said they should do. He said if someone wants you to walk a mile, walk two, yet all I see is xians asking everyone else to walk miles in xian shoes.

[par4dcourse]

Jay you disappoint me. First you claim a proof of god that you won't share with the sinners, even though your jesus gave you the charge (I provided verses). If we had read and dismissed, then the omen is on us. As is, you are responsible for us going to hell.

 

Then you lapse into the old familiar blah, blah, heaven/hell, blah, JESUS, blah, blah. Decades of swallowing the crap and decades of arguing against it have left me with no tolerence for a battle of wits with the unarmed.

 

And your worst transgression was in the beginning. You pissed-off Miss Deva, which is damn near impossible. Unforgiveable sin. I sentence you to hell for all eternity. Or not, depending on my mood. You might get me to forgive you, but you wont' know until you're dead. Flimsy deal, eh?

[Vigile]

I'm sure you meant to say that God can not do everything, but taking this sentence literally, out of context, as written, it's true. God can NOT do anything. Not one thing. Nothing. He is absolutely impotent because he does not exist, but if you look at what he could be doing if he existed, he's pretty much doing nothing. Which is exactly what a nonexistent god would do.

 

Freudian slip. Even xians know at their gut level he can't do anything. Why else do they embrace modern medicine, buy insurance, not sell their positions and give to the poor, etc... etc...?

[JayL]

<< Awesome! You're such a cool Christian. I mean, no other Christian has ever admitted that. >>

 

Well, thank you. I am glad that we have some common ground.

 

 

 

<< Right. He created us. He caused it (he's the First Cause... or isn't he?

And now he wants to punish us for his crappy design. >>

 

 

It is not the way you think. The problem is that God made man too well. Man is actually quite exalted in God's scheme of things. Man is actually made 'in the image of God'. But then here comes the huge problem. Man can say NO to God and there is not much God can do about it! God has to let man go. ( Perhaps even to hell. ) But God cannot disrespect man's decision.

 

 

 

 

<< God could easily have left Jesus to stay here on Earth. Hovering over ground, meeting with people, healing the sick everywhere, to show his supernatural powers and existence for everyone. But no. He had to hide, and let the work over to the crappy humans with subjective views of everything. Every Christian who interprets the Bible his way is the "real" way for everyone else to follow. Such a stupid design. >>

 

This is a question a number of Christians ask. And it is hard to understand. However God's plan ( of delegating to humans ) seem to have worked. Close to the half of world population are now Christians. It is pretty remarkable if you think about it. Once again, it is hard for us to grasp the fact that God thinks so highly of us and delegated his plan to save the world to a few Jewish disciples of Jesus.

 

 

 

 

<< Of course not. Evil doesn't really exist. Evil was never created. >>

 

That is correct. Evil was not created. What was created were independent systems that can become evil. Once again, not easy to fathom.

 

 

 

 

<< Well, he failed in quality assurance when he created Satan, the world, and us. That points to a defective process, which points to a defective God. Ah, I know, your going to say that God designed it this way because of Free Will. Won't you? Well, then Free Will is the reason for a faulty and defective design. Simple logic. >>

 

You seemed to see yourself as a machine part. You fail to see that you are an independent being.

 

 

 

<< What is it? Do we have eternal life in Hell, suffering for eternity, or are we dead and not living and suffering somehow still? I don't get it. >>

 

There is no eternal life in Hell as far as I know. Your soul simply get destroyed. It is called 'the second death'.

 

 

 

<< Does life mean living or does it mean inanimate but yet have senses? What do you exactly mean with "eternal life"? Is it just a metaphor for something else, or is it literal? >>

 

If you are saved, you get to live. Kinda like now but no more death.

 

 

 

<< Basically your asking us to accept certain things without proper explanation. That is the reason why it is not fair. Why should people be made to accept and believe your religion without adequate foundation or explanations? >>

 

Perhaps because people are desperate? Like I was? But once they become believers, they find new things ( good things in the New Testament - like positive thinking ) and they stay Christians.

 

 

<< If your religion was true, you should have a perfect and logical answer for EVERY QUESTION IN THE UNIVERSE. God is on your side. The Holy Spirit teaches you about everything (according to the Bible). And yet, you're without answers when it gets to the core questions. That's the reason why it is not reasonable to believe you. >>

 

 

Well, I believe I have provided lots of logical responses to think about. The key word there is 'teach'. We are still learning and trying to figure things out. Nobody has all the answers on this side of the Heaven! If you like to know more, stick around. As the Holy Spirit continues to educate me, I may have more answers for you.

 

 

 

<< Why did God have to change our perception and experience of God? He hired a new image consultant? >>

 

No, the Old Testament stuff did not work!! So God started the New Testament. The new one is working a lot better. It is simple as that.

[Ouroboros]

Why don't the majority of Christians in USA strive for a more socialized system?

 

And on that note, why do they insist on praying from the hilltops, making national days of prayer and crying because they can't force teachers to perform warm up prayers in school? Did Jesus not say that prayer should be an intimate thing to be done in a closet?

 

And why is it that xians insist on making laws that force xian beliefs on society instead of just being a light on a hill top or salt of the earth? Demanding your way and then crying when you don't get it is the opposite of what he said they should do. He said if someone wants you to walk a mile, walk two, yet all I see is xians asking everyone else to walk miles in xian shoes.

That's right.

 

The Bible (New Testament) actually do say that the rulers are put in charge by God himself and the Christians should obey the law regardless who the leader was. I think it was one of Paul's defenses during the Nero's regime, but I'm not certain. In other words, Christians should accept what God gives them, not force the rule. The Bible also states that they shouldn't worry about tomorrow because knows how many hairs they have on their heads, yet Christians worry a lot about the future and want to get control over society to demand their ways. They act in complete opposite to what they teach.

 

I agree with Jay that here are some nice and cute things in the New Testament, and I think there are some stupid things too. But all in all, why doesn't Christianity work? Why does Christianity turn Christians into the complete opposite to their beliefs? Obviously, it doesn't work.

 

It's snake oil with false promises.

 

---

 

And here's another bad teaching by Jesus: he told the disciples that to cure epilepsy, they had to pray and fast to cast out the demon.

 

Is that really rational in today's society? No. But people believe it.

 

So if we should do what Jay suggests, remove OT from the Bible, then we should remove those surreal and irrational parts from NT as well.

[JayL]

[

26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.

 

I could go on, but I'm bored.

 

 

 

You are taking things out of context and you simply don't know what you are talking about.

[Vigile]

There is no eternal life in Hell as far as I know. Your soul simply get destroyed. It is called 'the second death'.

 

If you believe that then when the hell, pun intended, are you scared of? I think when I die that's it too.

[JayL]

 

As you cower in fear and brag about your perfection, maybe you should reconsider Pascal's Wager. If you are the product of God's Love, there is something seriously wrong with this situation.

 

 

Man, you guys have so much misconception about things, I don't even know where to start to reeducate you.

 

 

Just feel lucky that you have someone like me who is willing to teach.

[JayL]

<< What do you think "Almighty" means? >>

 

 

Should I talk about the correct Hebrew meaning of El Shaddai??

 

Where does this stop??

 

Where did you people learn all these nonsense? No wonder you left Christianity.

 

 

Man oh man.

[Vigile]

But all in all, why doesn't Christianity work? Why does Christianity turn Christians into the complete opposite to their beliefs? Obviously, it doesn't work.

 

I think next time I get an email about the national day of prayer or some other nonsense I'll just send them back a quote from Jesus.

[par4dcourse]

As you cower in fear and brag about your perfection, maybe you should reconsider Pascal's Wager. If you are the product of God's Love, there is something seriously wrong with this situation.

 

 

Man, you guys have so much misconception about things, I don't even know where to start to reeducate you.

 

 

Just feel lucky that you have someone like me who is willing to teach.

 

This has GOT to be a scam. Nobody's that fucked up.

[Ouroboros]

<< Right. He created us. He caused it (he's the First Cause... or isn't he?

And now he wants to punish us for his crappy design. >>

 

It is not the way you think. The problem is that God made man too well. Man is actually quite exalted in God's scheme of things. Man is actually made 'in the image of God'.

In what part?

 

Having a spirit, like the angels and Satan?

 

Having a free will, like Satan?

 

Being eternal, like Satan?

 

Being omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, and non-temporal? Eh, no, we didn't get that part.

 

Being a dick? Yeah, most Christians are in his likeness.

 

But then here comes the huge problem. Man can say NO to God and there is not much God can do about it! God has to let man go. ( Perhaps even to hell. ) But God cannot disrespect man's decision.

So free will is the greater good, the perfect design, the ultimate goal, not the part of being saved. It can't be both ways. And if God really, really wanted us to make the right choice, he could have let Jesus stay here on Earth and we could have experienced Jesus the same was as the disciples.

 

<< God could easily have left Jesus to stay here on Earth. Hovering over ground, meeting with people, healing the sick everywhere, to show his supernatural powers and existence for everyone. But no. He had to hide, and let the work over to the crappy humans with subjective views of everything. Every Christian who interprets the Bible his way is the "real" way for everyone else to follow. Such a stupid design. >>

 

This is a question a number of Christians ask. And it is hard to understand. However God's plan ( of delegating to humans ) seem to have worked.

No. It hasn't. "Humans are flawed," your words.

 

The improvement on the human condition came with the Enlightenment and modern science (based on the idea that things can be explained naturally, not supernaturally).

 

 

Close to the half of world population are now Christians. It is pretty remarkable if you think about it. Once again, it is hard for us to grasp the fact that God thinks so highly of us and delegated his plan to save the world to a few Jewish disciples of Jesus.

You said you had some good insights in math... How can 2.2 billion of 6 billion be close to half? It's closer to 1/3rd. There are 2.1 billion Muslims, so they're almost as close to half too. So what percentage is left if 50% Christians and 50% Muslims take up the world, and there exists some billion Hindus, Buddhists, Jews...

 

I don't think it is remarkable at all. It think it's a matter of probability and statistics. Some religion or other would be the dominating one. It's obvious. It happened to be yours and the other.

 

If Buddhism had been your "50%" of the world, then I would be discussing with a Buddhist Jay, and he would tell me how "remarkable" it was that Buddhism was so large.

 

<< Of course not. Evil doesn't really exist. Evil was never created. >>

 

That is correct. Evil was not created. What was created were independent systems that can become evil. Once again, not easy to fathom.

So something was "created." You're trying to spin it by saying:

 

A not create.

B created.

B became A.

 

Same difference. B didn't exist, and Satan caused it. Satan is a first cause for things that are Not-God. In other words, Satan is on the same level as God.

[Vigile]

[

26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.

 

I could go on, but I'm bored.

 

 

 

You are taking things out of context and you simply don't know what you are talking about.

 

Enter the ever predictable context card. But oh, I simply do know what I'm talking about. If the bible didn't bore me so much I'm pretty sure I could go toe to toe with you or your pastor on it and there are others here that can wipe the floor with me.

[Vigile]

 

As you cower in fear and brag about your perfection, maybe you should reconsider Pascal's Wager. If you are the product of God's Love, there is something seriously wrong with this situation.

 

 

Man, you guys have so much misconception about things, I don't even know where to start to reeducate you.

 

 

Just feel lucky that you have someone like me who is willing to teach.

 

Ok, this one makes me think Florduh is right, that you are indeed a faker. I had my doubts because xians can say some pretty stupid things, but most are not this arrogant.

[Ouroboros]

<< Well, he failed in quality assurance when he created Satan, the world, and us. That points to a defective process, which points to a defective God. Ah, I know, your going to say that God designed it this way because of Free Will. Won't you? Well, then Free Will is the reason for a faulty and defective design. Simple logic. >>

 

You seemed to see yourself as a machine part. You fail to see that you are an independent being.

God created the faulty independent being. He failed the quality control, or he planned it. He either wanted evil to exist, or he failed to stop it.

 

<< What is it? Do we have eternal life in Hell, suffering for eternity, or are we dead and not living and suffering somehow still? I don't get it. >>

 

There is no eternal life in Hell as far as I know. Your soul simply get destroyed. It is called 'the second death'.

So there's not eternal torment then?

 

<< Does life mean living or does it mean inanimate but yet have senses? What do you exactly mean with "eternal life"? Is it just a metaphor for something else, or is it literal? >>

 

If you are saved, you get to live. Kinda like now but no more death.

In what kind of world? A physical world? Or a woo-woo world?

 

 

<< Basically your asking us to accept certain things without proper explanation. That is the reason why it is not fair. Why should people be made to accept and believe your religion without adequate foundation or explanations? >>

 

Perhaps because people are desperate? Like I was? But once they become believers, they find new things ( good things in the New Testament - like positive thinking ) and they stay Christians.

I have found the answers I need for me to live. So what is wrong then? What is your purpose here?

 

<< If your religion was true, you should have a perfect and logical answer for EVERY QUESTION IN THE UNIVERSE. God is on your side. The Holy Spirit teaches you about everything (according to the Bible). And yet, you're without answers when it gets to the core questions. That's the reason why it is not reasonable to believe you. >>

 

Well, I believe I have provided lots of logical responses to think about. The key word there is 'teach'. We are still learning and trying to figure things out. Nobody has all the answers on this side of the Heaven! If you like to know more, stick around. As the Holy Spirit continues to educate me, I may have more answers for you.

But you didn't have an answer for that particular question. If you go back, you can see I responded to one exact thing, and nothing else.

 

<< Why did God have to change our perception and experience of God? He hired a new image consultant? >>

 

No, the Old Testament stuff did not work!! So God started the New Testament. The new one is working a lot better. It is simple as that.

So God didn't know beforehand that it would fail?

[Vigile]

As you cower in fear and brag about your perfection, maybe you should reconsider Pascal's Wager. If you are the product of God's Love, there is something seriously wrong with this situation.

 

 

Man, you guys have so much misconception about things, I don't even know where to start to reeducate you.

 

 

Just feel lucky that you have someone like me who is willing to teach.

 

This has GOT to be a scam. Nobody's that fucked up.

 

I thought the same thing when I read this. If it is he kept a damn good poker face for longer than I ever could/would have.