Why I Am No Longer A Xian

[Thumbelina]

Nothing is wrong with meditation, it's the type of meditation that is questionable.

 

 

Aman said: Why? Says who? You are an authority on this? How? Considering what you say next, it proves you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So how can you call it 'questionable'? On what basis do you say this other than through your own fear and ignorance?

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Says the bible --> http://bible.cc/search.php?q=meditate I learned in my time of being a Christian that meditating on God's word opens up ones heart to God and it is the most peaceful, euphoric feeling ever! Meditating on the Word draws me closer to God. Aman, why are you projecting?

 

 

 

Nothing is wrong with pondering something, relaxation, reflection, ... .

 

Aman said: That's true, but that's not meditation in the sense of contemplative practice. A practice that various Christians mystics do even today. How is it wrong?

 

Thumbelina: What you are proposing is spiritism. I have heard testimonies of people who came out of the occult and they did participate in contemplative practices http://www.contemplativemind.org/practices/ . What that does is bring people into the alpha state and it opens them up to being possessed by demons http://bible.cc/matthew/12-45.htm . I know, it FEELS good for many people but feelings ought to be subordinate to reason and our GOD GIVEN consciences, which by the way, need to be subject to God.

 

 

I also do not believe in sitting down with my legs folded and saying "Ohm", that goes in the same category with nonsensical babbling or vain repetitions, as it were.

 

Aman said: Now this is hilarious. You have no notion of what that practice is, do you? It's not praying to some external God in the sky as you think of it. Chant and mantra's are not about asking for a sky God over and over and over to give you your wishes, the way most Christians pray, BTW. It's a form of guided meditation through focusing the mind on a single thought. It clears a space for spiritual realization through removing the scattered thoughts of your mind and going into a place of silence. Even the Bible talks about going into silence to hear God. Don't you know?

 

 

Thumbelina: It's an imitation of "be still and know" but even that does not mean emptying the mind, it means trust God, do not be anxious. When a person's mind is filled with scripture God brings the right one to your understanding when you want or need it. It happened to me yesterday, TWICE.

 

 

 

Aman said: The whole problem for you Thumbs is that you see God as external, not internal. Going into silence is the place to experience that spirit within, without the clutter of the mind, its busy thoughts and distracting emotions that arise in response. It clears the debris to see what simple IS. It is within that space that realizations arise to the conscious mind that inform and instruct. For you, it's entirely external. You have to read a book to tell you what is truth. You have to look up to a Sky-Parent to tell you what to believe. You cannot find it in yourself, because you do not look.

 

 

Thumbelina: I did not start off by reading a book, reading the book, understanding it and assimilating it is the meat stage of Christianity. When we respond to God at first, we are in the milk stage. Many Christians remain at that stage and do not study as the bible instructs them to.

 

 

Aman said: Looking within is frightening, because it in fact does require a whole lot of 'faith' that what you find there is good, and not a fearful darkness our irrational minds put before us out of fear of loosing ones hold on ones own self identity. But Jesus says, you have to die to live. And when you go there, that false self you create with your facades of reasoning becomes exposed for what it truly is - false. You find your true Self, and that true Self is in fact your true Nature. It is a Realization through direct, unmediated experience. That, is contemplation, not 'thinking about the Bible'.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I have been putting off wrestling with God for you are right, it is scary for what one is going to find. I most likely will have an experience as Jacob who wrestled with the angel or I might say "woe is me" like Isaiah but God has proved over and over again that He loves me and that His testimony (the bible) is true and all I need to do is be willing and He will finish His work in me. The Christian thinks about the moral and spiritual truths contained in the bible when meditating.

 

 

 

 

 

Aman said: BTW, you do realize when you pray to the external God, that that is in fact the same thing as chanting? The effect is to focus the mind on God, on the Divine. You just externalize it all.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Prayer is not chanting. Praying is talking to God and opening ones heart to Him. I speak to God as I would a friend God is awesome and He's cool.

 

 

 

 

Are you doing what the atheists do, getting rid of freedom of choice so you won't have to obey God completely? We think with our minds and that is where God communicates with us.

 

 

Aman said: "Obey God". Do even know what that means? You external this symbolically making God the Parent. One chooses to embrace their higher nature because good is better than evil. We "obey" higher truth within us. It's not necessary to put that on a sky-parent, unless you need that sort of thing still.

 

Thumbelina: I think people like Nicolae Ceausescu may have had beliefs like that. That he has a higher nature, the problem when people believe that is that to make themselves higher they tend to put someone else down eventually. Good is the absence of evil and no human can claim to be that way. Oh, I need God and this from someone who came into Christianity as a self righteous person; I did not say any sinners prayer, I told the lady that was attending me that being baptized and going to church was the only thing I wasn't doing. Boy, am I lucky that God was/is merciful, I blush now when I remember that.

 

 

Aman said: And you can claim this, while I cannot?

 

Thumbelina said: Yup, you're on your way to committing spiritual suicide. Your "knowing" led you away from Christ so therefore it was false.

 

 

Aman said: Really? How dare you. For all you know, this is Christ. That what Christ is, is seen in all religions, in the simple flower, the tree, the smile of a child, the love of a parent, the grace of human compassion. How dare you sit in God's throne and judge another. You offend God. You sadden me.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Are you serious? Are you misapplying this phrase "Christ is all, and in all."? Nature is not Christ, that is a pagan belief, a sort of deistic belief (people get all huffy because of semantics but ultimately, there are two modalities of faith. They are trusting in God and trusting in creation). God is a Creator and ABOVE His creation. If you ask two people "How much is 8 + 7? and one says 12 when the other says 15, are you going to pat them both on the head and say "Good job!"? Will you want the one that said 12 going on to become an engineer and building bridges? Just as we have physical laws, God has spiritual laws and the bible says that two cannot walk together unless they agree and all religions do not agree.

 

I met this young guy once, he was studying to become a pastor and I realized that he was not following the bible as closely as he should so I started printing out reading material and giving it to him. He was grateful and he liked some of what I gave him for he wanted to use it in his sermons but when he came across some things that matched the bible but not his own private interpretations he said he was offended (the bible says people will do this). I once told him that he was not honoring all of God's commandments and he admitted that there was no biblical basis for some traditions he keeps in the name of God. He also told me that some pastors lied to him and he knew they were lying and yet he continued with his non biblical traditions. Here's the kicker though, he wanted me to hit the streets of the city evangelizing with him and in my head I was thinking "What's up with this dude?" Imagine him going and telling people about the secret rapture and me saying "Secret rapture is fiction!" Now do you see how that cannot work?

 

Suffice it to say, that guy got my telephone number by accident and after he moved far away he sort of flirted with me over the phone and he thought that because I was bugging him about the bible I had a crush on him. How he translated 'I don't want you to be deceived' as 'I've got the hots for you' is beyond me, that thought never even crossed my mind.

 

 

Please do not misunderstand me, Aman, I do recognize other channels of God's grace. I heard of Christians from the same community of faith as the guy I mentioned, prophesying for God (God gave Nebuchadnezzar a dream to arrest his attention, he eventually was saved and wrote some chapters in Daniel), they are serving God with the truths they know and God will continue to lead them. God wants His children to UNITE in the TRUTH and believers should pray for unity.

 

 

Thumbelina said: Are you trying to say what Obama said in his inauguration speech; "all paths lead to the same god"?

 

 

Aman said: No. Some paths lead to narcissism and others to destruction. By their fruits you shall know them.

That said, I believe all paths that lead to good fruit are following that same path.

 

Thumbelina: When humans rely on their own inclinations it does tend to override their reasoning capabilities and so yes, narcissism tends to reign. Most humans do not follow the narrow path that causes them to produce good fruit. We need a perfect moral being to direct our paths.

Where do you get the fruit from; how did they originate?

 

 

 

There are myriads of deceiving spirits out there, ask those people in India, I mean, 33 million gods? Ask the animists or the people in the Philippines who are slaves to the spirits.

 

 

Aman said: Your ignorance is jarring.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Eh, Hinduism is a lucrative business; I've seen documentaries and former Hindus spill the beans about it. They worship practically everything, their legs, rats, cows and Jesus is actually one of their gods. I realize the 33 million was a mistranslation but it does not negate the fact that Hinduism promotes idolatry and salvation by works, therefore good workers can boast and look down on others.

As a child, before I got to the age of twelve, I observed Hinduism and thought it does not appeal to reason. Lo and behold, a couple years ago I saw an MD being interviewed and he said he spent a little over twenty years putting aside his religious beliefs as much as he can and he investigated the major religions of the world to see which one is most logical. When Hinduism was brought up, he dismissed it as "non thinking" (he's Indian from India). I was thinking wow, I figured that out as a child just by observing their rituals but really, the HS told me.

 

 

 

 

The bible is a magical book and it does speak to open hearts.

 

 

Aman said: And you just criticized Animism? There it is. You just spoke your thoughts. You too believe in Magic. That's why you cannot see anything I am saying. You are still thinking as a child. The Bible is not magical, any more than any other book which may contain wisdom teachings is. They speak to us because we are human.

 

Thumbelina:

 

Noun 1. animism - the doctrine that all natural objects and the universe itself have souls; "animism is common among primitive peoples"

 

animism -- a belief that natural objects other than humans have souls

 

The Mien are animists, they have to "feed" their dead . Their religion is non thinking and they live in fear.

I believe in created beings and I believe a person IS a soul and a dead person is a dead soul. They do not become some wispy vapor floating about.

 

 

 

Aman said: We are naturally, and rightly so, selfish. But as we mature that selfishness becomes less so. If we remain selfish as an adult, then we have not grown socially or spiritually. It is necessary, important and healthy as a stage of human development to be selfish at first. It is what allows the sense of 'self' identity to develop. Then as we mature, the egocentricism begins to include others outside us, into family identification, then social group identification, to community identification, and if you are mature enough, to global identification, all the way up to God-identification. Selfishness lessens the more mature we become.

 

So, no, it is not our Nature. It is part of normal healthy development, that like what I said about darkness in us, it must be superseded by our developing higher nature. We are not "selfish" in our nature. We are also selfless, in our higher nature. We are a whole, spiritual, person at various stages of growth.

 

Thumb said: You are defending selfishness?

 

 

 

Aman said: Oh my god. Did you read what I said?? How do you take that as defending selfishness? I said it is part of a healthy stage of development for children, but as an adult who is still selfish, they are immature and need to grow up. Wow. I'm at a loss how you missed that, other than you didn't read it.

 

Are you calling out to your god or the God of heaven?

 

 

Thumbelina: Why is it good for a baby to be selfish if it has a selfless parent? If its needs are met why is it the baby always wants more, more, more?

 

 

 

Thumb: Can you picture how good this planet will be if everyone was selfless?

 

 

 

Aman said: Yes indeed. We hope for that. The first place to start is to get rid of exclusionary religions, like the way you do in condemning others, like me. That's not too loving, is it?

 

 

 

You do indeed have noble aspirations, Aman

I can disagree with other belief systems just like they can disagree with my belief system. Remember 8 + 7 is not 12? All personalities are not alike but there are principles that everybody should follow and I believe those principles are found in loving God by adhering to the 10 commandments.

[Thumbelina]

Aman, are you sure you're on this planet? This planet is replete with selfish people! And it's NOT getting any better.

Aman: False. That is false. That is an illusion of perception. Please, if you want to have a dialog with me you need to educate yourself to the sorts of knoweldge I am accessing. Please listen to both of these youtube presentations, then come back to me and say this again if you can:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfvMejYxv5I

 

LOL You're funny

OK so I finally got to look at your videos without being interrupted. You seemed to think that I meant less violence means that there is less selfishness. I still say people are selfish. Relative peace does not mean people are not selfish; people just learned to use sophistry that's all. Actually, that's how the devil has worked throughout this earth's history, by persecution or compromise.

 

I see your guy in the video used the typical strategy of manipulating statistics to suit his agenda. Instead of amounts, he used percentages and ratios to compare deaths and violence between people of the past and people in the present. He seems to want to do away with religion to promote his "utopia" but you know crime in Israel is VERY low. There's a war that is going on but among Israelites themselves, crime tends not to be high. However, their society is run like a theocracy so although people may not commit a crime for fear of penalty, it does not mean they would not want to commit the crime if the penalty was removed. Right motives come from an understanding relationship with God. Eg. During the Haiti earthquake I wanted to see what Dawkins was saying about it, that hubris head said that Christians say that atheists don't give so he is giving $12,000 (I think) to prove that atheists aren't selfish. I was thinking 'No, Richard, people are hurt and they need help, it's not about you' His motive was not helping people but about his own ego and his silly agenda.

I do reckon a religious hubris head is worse than an atheist hubris head though for they have a "god" backing them

 

Humans have had a history of going through cycles, Aman. Throughout history there was usually a cycle of oppression or slavery/bondage, that usually gave way to spiritual faith, faith gave courage. With courage came liberty, with liberty there was abundance, with abundance came selfishness, as people become more selfish and their selfish needs were met, they then became compliant, apathy then sets in. With apathy came dependence and with dependence, people go back to bondage.

 

Even great civilizations that achieved successes and who were more heathen, destructed from the inside, they followed their carnal desires after they made progress. Greece fell when the people became lax and licentious. Rome had the Roman peace for a while but we both know how that ended up, laxness and licentiousness led to them losing sight of improving their society. No God, no peace!

Seems to me the world is coming to the end of another cycle and bondage is looming on the horizon; the funk is about to hit the fan, Aman! Even religious people are basically secular and licentiousness is ruling the world.

There is something inside us that inherently know that we should do better but in and of ourselves, we CAN'T do it. As Paul said, we want to do good but the good we wish to do, we don't do it.

 

 

 

Humans need a transcendent moral absolute in order to shape their characters and form ethics.

Aman said: Not by imposing it on them. Isn't Jesus the Good Shepherd? If you think imposing it on them is how it should work then your Jesus should be the Good Cow Rustler. No. People are transformed through an inner self-realization, not from having someone bash them in the head with a stick.

So, are you a proponent of freedom of choice? You indicated that Jesus believed in freedom of choice. Centauri, does not think there is such a thing; I don't know about him *smh*. Jesus and the HS are gentle, faith worketh by love but there is also a time to chasten and rebuke; rebellious beings need that.

 

 

Again I say, Aman, are you on this planet and observing what is going on in it? Humans are NOT becoming more selfless!

Aman said: One more video I will ask you to watch. This one is even more like my thinking. In fact it is like taking my skull cap off and staring right into how my brain thinks about these things, and the factual basis for them. We are not becoming more selfish, we are becoming less. Please watch this:

 

 

 

...............

 

 

I basically liked this video and it agrees with a # of beliefs within Christianity, like everybody is basically related and they descended from one man and one woman. I also believe that science is catching up with the bible in some aspects,as in what we do or say affects other; d'uh that is why we are quarantined on this planet. We cannot be with sinless creatures because we will infect or affect them with our selfish ways. I disagree with how that guy thinks we are improving and will improve. Without God in the picture and by putting self as God, humans will just be building another Tower of Babel and that my friend, is doomed to fail. Without God, people try to fill that void in other ways that are not beneficial. Secularism and atheism is basically about carpe diem. Look at the countries that consume the most alcohol : http://www.cnbc.com/...lcohol?slide=17 Are these countries predominantly religious? The Ukraine has a LOT of alcoholics http://www.itsukrain...-the-world.html and abandoned children in orphanages. Without a vision the people perish! Australia is predominantly secular and virtually everybody drinks and virtually everybody knows that drinking lowers inhibitions and lets just say the morals are not according to the biblical standards there, BUT, BUUUT look at what is reported by the Australian Cancer Council, alcohol is not healthy :

 

"In the past, researchers believed red wine might have had health benefits for heart disease, but this does not appear to be the case.

There are better things you can do to reduce your risk of heart disease as well as cancer, such as not smoking, healthy eating, being physically active and maintaining a healthy bodyweight. It is important to look at the risks and benefits of drinking alcohol for you personally."

http://www.cancer.or...mit_alcohol.htm

 

Cancer is killing sooo many people. When people follow their OWN inclinations, it leads them to trouble. God gave us instructions in how to live good in order to enhance our minds, bodies and spirit http://bible.cc/exodus/15-26.htm "And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." Scientists are now testing the Egyptian mummies to see what diseases they had and yup, they had the same diseases that are killing people prematurely, today.

 

Atheists, secularists and spiritists alike, seem to think that education and team work without God's rules will get rid of the woes on this planet but:

 

"Nazism flourished in the most scientifically advanced nation on Earth, with a third of all science Nobel Prizes awarded up to that time."

And don't forget what happened to France when they got rid of the bible and wanted to use "reason" to make the country and I guess the world, better.

 

Progressive enlightenment? I think not.

Education, ohming without reason and "trying" does not change a carnal heart.

 

It would seem that you are proposing the type of belief system as Shirley Maclaine,

Aman said: That's bloody nonsense. You are the opposite end of that spectrum of nonsense. Extremes.

 

Thumbelina:

 

or promoting the beliefs of the people in that atheistic "We are the World" song?

Aman said: Atheistic song??? How?

 

The fact you condemn the sentiment expressed in that song, shows you embrace ugly. The words of the mouth speak the secrets of the heart.

 

"We're in charge of saving our OWN lives"? That's pretty atheistic.

You know what? forget atheistic, I say DEMONIC. It's also similar to that devilish song they call "Imagine"

 

 

Aman said: P.S. When you said earlier that chanting OM is 'babbling', I'd like to give you an example. "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". If you said this in prayer, to reflect and ponder its meaning in your heart would you call that "babbling"? Try this, if someone chant "Om Mani Padme Hum" how is that any different? Om Mani Padme Hum means this in really rough terms, God, Jewel, Lotus, Union. It means roughly all is from the source God, to the Jewel of the heart, extended in compassion to the world through us like the lotus unfolding, to return in indestructible union in the heart. In other worlds "Love God, love your neighbor as yourself." Babbling, according to Ms. Spiritual who judges others souls.

 

 

It becomes babbling if I say "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". "Love God, a"Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". nd love your neighbor as yourself". "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself". And I say it real fast that means I have the biblical gift of tongues, NOT! <-- Hell yeah, that's babbling. Prayer is a conversation that is RATIONAL and not repetitious.

 

I still think you're sassy/cool; I like. You're funnier than I thought, like Centauri.

[Antlerman]

 

Aman said: Why? Says who? You are an authority on this? How? Considering what you say next, it proves you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So how can you call it 'questionable'? On what basis do you say this other than through your own fear and ignorance?

 

 

Thumbelina: Says the bible --> http://bible.cc/search.php?q=meditate I learned in my time of being a Christian that meditating on God's word opens up ones heart to God and it is the most peaceful, euphoric feeling ever! Meditating on the Word draws me closer to God. Aman, why are you projecting?

You know, you can meditate on Bible verses in the sort of meditation I'm talking about too. Again, none of those verses condemn or even frankly explains how to meditate. Does it?

 

You ignorantly call chanting "babbling" (you clearly have never tried to actually understand what it is, taking the easy path of ignorantly labeling and ridiculing what is foreign to your stiff, rigid religion). Do you know that the purpose of chanting is manifold, not the least is in fact to actually meditate upon the meaning of the words??? It is not vain, it is not without value at all to those who practice it. Maybe you should try. It could help with your heart.

 

I scarcely can bring myself to respond to the rest of this because you are clearly ignorant of anything outside what you have found the illusion of security within the constructs of your external religion. But I'll do so anyway, if not for you then for those who may care to understand.

 

Aman said: That's true, but that's not meditation in the sense of contemplative practice. A practice that various Christians mystics do even today. How is it wrong?

 

Thumbelina: What you are proposing is spiritism.

It most certainly is not! Please support that wild, ignorant statement. What I practice is not spiritism at all. I am a nondualist. Support your wild statement.

 

I have heard testimonies of people who came out of the occult and they did participate in contemplative practices http://www.contemplativemind.org/practices/ .

So your saying that Buddhism, Christian mysticism, Hindu mystics, Sufi mystics, etc, are the occult????

 

You speak from a position of blind ignorance.

 

What that does is bring people into the alpha state and it opens them up to being possessed by demons http://bible.cc/matthew/12-45.htm .

That verse has nothing whatsover to do with people who meditate. It's fascinating how your fear seeks for anything to dismiss what you fear because it's foreign to you. Christians practice this too! Father Thomas Keating, John of the Cross, Meister Ekhart, Theresa of Avila..... thousands more.... all practicing the occult arts according to you.

 

So silly. I really feel bad for you Thumbs. You block yourself from so much more than what you currently feel safe with.

 

I know, it FEELS good for many people but feelings ought to be subordinate to reason and our GOD GIVEN consciences, which by the way, need to be subject to God.

Whatever you were referencing isn't this.

 

Aman said: Now this is hilarious. You have no notion of what that practice is, do you? It's not praying to some external God in the sky as you think of it. Chant and mantra's are not about asking for a sky God over and over and over to give you your wishes, the way most Christians pray, BTW. It's a form of guided meditation through focusing the mind on a single thought. It clears a space for spiritual realization through removing the scattered thoughts of your mind and going into a place of silence. Even the Bible talks about going into silence to hear God. Don't you know?

 

 

Thumbelina: It's an imitation of "be still and know" but even that does not mean emptying the mind, it means trust God, do not be anxious.

I actually wish I could teach you, believe it or not! You have been filled with the propaganda of the ignorant. I've heard this same ignorance myself when I was part of the religion. "Emptying the mind" is not at all what this is. You still your thoughts. That is all. That is in fact in the Bible. I can tell you from experience that "be still and know" is in fact exactly what I am talking about. In the silence where your thoughts aren't all chattering and clouding the mind, you become observant. You still are fully aware, just in a space of clear mind. That is not "emptying the mind"! In that space then you see the true nature of things. In that space you experience what I will say here is Divine Light. It fills the soul with depth, and love, and compassion that fills and overflows.

 

Demons, my ass Thumbs. You have never gone there, or you would know better.

[Antlerman]

When a person's mind is filled with scripture God brings the right one to your understanding when you want or need it. It happened to me yesterday, TWICE.

That's great. You can listen to your subconscious. No go into meditation and be still, and watch what else it has to present to you! I mean that sincerely.

 

Aman said: The whole problem for you Thumbs is that you see God as external, not internal. Going into silence is the place to experience that spirit within, without the clutter of the mind, its busy thoughts and distracting emotions that arise in response. It clears the debris to see what simple IS. It is within that space that realizations arise to the conscious mind that inform and instruct. For you, it's entirely external. You have to read a book to tell you what is truth. You have to look up to a Sky-Parent to tell you what to believe. You cannot find it in yourself, because you do not look.

 

 

Thumbelina: I did not start off by reading a book, reading the book, understanding it and assimilating it is the meat stage of Christianity.

Actually, it's more the early adolescent stage. Meat is yet to come for you. Hopefully for you that will reveal itself.

 

When we respond to God at first, we are in the milk stage. Many Christians remain at that stage and do not study as the bible instructs them to.

And then there are those who are stuck at the literalism stage....

 

Aman said: Looking within is frightening, because it in fact does require a whole lot of 'faith' that what you find there is good, and not a fearful darkness our irrational minds put before us out of fear of loosing ones hold on ones own self identity. But Jesus says, you have to die to live. And when you go there, that false self you create with your facades of reasoning becomes exposed for what it truly is - false. You find your true Self, and that true Self is in fact your true Nature. It is a Realization through direct, unmediated experience. That, is contemplation, not 'thinking about the Bible'.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I have been putting off wrestling with God for you are right, it is scary for what one is going to find.

Well, I have. I can tell you, so much of these walls you put up in your Bible is God barriers, are the first that will need to fall. Bare yourself to Truth if you want to enter in. Be prepared to give up all you hang on to, first your beliefs you look to for security. It's not to be found there.

 

 

I most likely will have an experience as Jacob who wrestled with the angel or I might say "woe is me" like Isaiah but God has proved over and over again that He loves me and that His testimony (the bible) is true and all I need to do is be willing and He will finish His work in me.

That angel you wrestle with, that demon you meet, will, in fact, be..... you.

 

The Christian thinks about the moral and spiritual truths contained in the bible when meditating.

I think of infinite power of compassion of the Divine itself while mediating. It's not contained in any one book, but in the fabric of existence, and the very Nature of what is in all. In you.

 

Aman said: BTW, you do realize when you pray to the external God, that that is in fact the same thing as chanting? The effect is to focus the mind on God, on the Divine. You just externalize it all.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Prayer is not chanting. Praying is talking to God and opening ones heart to Him. I speak to God as I would a friend God is awesome and He's cool.

Chanting for many is a means to go into that space. Don't criticize others ways to God, especially when you are in fact as ignorant as you are about how the operate for others. Please.

 

 

I'm going to stop here at this point as I think the point is made, and hopefully, something in it reaches you.

[Antlerman]

I want to add to what I touched on earlier, This business of saying meditation is "emptying the mind" is a confusion between meditation and hypnosis. In hypnosis the mind is in a blank state of suggestibility. Hypnosis is not used in contemplative practice. Again, you are in fact very aware of everything going on. It is a state of a superconscious mind, an awakened mind from the slumber of illusion.

 

Once again, what you are parroting is misinformation spread through fear by your fellow Christians speaking from pure ignorance. What I find annoying is the Christians who claim a love for truth, do not in fact make any effort to actually be factually informed. Instead they spread ignorance out of their fear, they propagate lies. They are irresponsible with truth. This is a great example of that with which they shoot out their own eyes in a desperate search to find a sense of security through their beliefs, rather than in Truth itself.

[NotBlinded]

 

 

Thumbelina: Eh, Hinduism is a lucrative business; I've seen documentaries and former Hindus spill the beans about it. They worship practically everything, their legs, rats, cows and Jesus is actually one of their gods. I realize the 33 million was a mistranslation but it does not negate the fact that Hinduism promotes idolatry and salvation by works, therefore good workers can boast and look down on others.

As a child, before I got to the age of twelve, I observed Hinduism and thought it does not appeal to reason. Lo and behold, a couple years ago I saw an MD being interviewed and he said he spent a little over twenty years putting aside his religious beliefs as much as he can and he investigated the major religions of the world to see which one is most logical. When Hinduism was brought up, he dismissed it as "non thinking" (he's Indian from India). I was thinking wow, I figured that out as a child just by observing their rituals but really, the HS told me.

 

 

 

The reason this is how you understand this religion is because of the way you understand yours. The symbols are gods to both of you that see their religion in this light. The superficial layers of both religions creates idols. Yours may be more mental than physical, but idols none-the-less. There are those that know the underlying truths beyond the symbols. The problem is getting those that worship external "things" to understand. That is very hard and probably why so few of them are known. Antlerman is having that same trouble with you. Worshipping something tangible and external is much easier.

[LivingLife]

We atheists will fall for the wiles of teh autiechrist? Geez Thumb, we know all teh signs and wonders this twit is supposed to perform but IIRC, it says the "very elect" will be deceived.

 

Last time I looked, atheists are not following signs and wonders, it is the woo woos. We do no need anything to validate our lack of belief, it is the woos that need constant validation.

 

I think I speak for all when I say we are at peace with our unbelief and if you or anyone perceive anger, it is not at your imaginary god, but the mere fact we were gullible to believe the lie and were conned out of funds that could have been better appropriated by our charity if they were channeled to organizations that actually help the destitute.

 

ETA: This from a statement on Page 5 you made

[JayL]

Very interesting post. But this 'Rod character' bears little resemblance with the real God of the New Testament Christianity.

[Deva]

Very interesting post. But this 'Rod character' bears little resemblance with the real God of the New Testament Christianity.

 

 

So, do you think of the New Testament God as the real one and the one in the Old Testament is false?

[JayL]

Very interesting post. But this 'Rod character' bears little resemblance with the real God of the New Testament Christianity.

 

 

So, do you think of the New Testament God as the real one and the one in the Old Testament is false?

Very interesting post. But this 'Rod character' bears little resemblance with the real God of the New Testament Christianity.

 

 

So, do you think of the New Testament God as the real one and the one in the Old Testament is false?

 

 

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

[mymistake]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

[JayL]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

 

 

A key point from this 2000 year old book (and remaining THE best seller all thru 2000 years! ) is that God is Love. ( 1John 4:16 ) This idea turns out to be the key notion in understanding God.

[Foxy Methoxy]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

 

 

A key point from this 2000 year old book (and remaining THE best seller all thru 2000 years! ) is that God is Love. ( 1John 4:16 ) This idea turns out to be the key notion in understanding God.

 

The notion of God is Love is also key in understanding Hinduism and Jainism, as well as many obscure cults throughout history. How do I know which "God is Love" god is the right one to worship? The one who truly created and loves me?

[mymistake]

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

 

 

A key point from this 2000 year old book (and remaining THE best seller all thru 2000 years! ) is that God is Love. ( 1John 4:16 ) This idea turns out to be the key notion in understanding God.

 

Ah but you didn't answer my question. Why does this book that was created by the Roman Empire contain understanding about God?

[Antlerman]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

Following suit then can we forget about the New Testament and just keep going in our understanding of God?

[Deva]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

 

So you are a heretic. You follow the same philosophy as Marcion. But you probably don't know who he was.

[JayL]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

Following suit then can we forget about the New Testament and just keep going in our understanding of God?

 

 

No. Jesus is the only way to God. Without Jesus Christ, people are lost.

[JayL]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

 

So you are a heretic. You follow the same philosophy as Marcion. But you probably don't know who he was.

 

 

I have some sympathy for his ideas. But I would NOT throw away the Old Testament.

[JayL]

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

 

 

A key point from this 2000 year old book (and remaining THE best seller all thru 2000 years! ) is that God is Love. ( 1John 4:16 ) This idea turns out to be the key notion in understanding God.

 

Ah but you didn't answer my question. Why does this book that was created by the Roman Empire contain understanding about God?

 

 

Is it your theory that the NT was created by the Roman empire?? That is a novel idea, I must say.

[JayL]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

 

 

A key point from this 2000 year old book (and remaining THE best seller all thru 2000 years! ) is that God is Love. ( 1John 4:16 ) This idea turns out to be the key notion in understanding God.

 

The notion of God is Love is also key in understanding Hinduism and Jainism, as well as many obscure cults throughout history. How do I know which "God is Love" god is the right one to worship? The one who truly created and loves me?

 

 

 

The one with Jesus Christ.

[mymistake]

No. Jesus is the only way to God. Without Jesus Christ, people are lost.

 

Well then, it's a very good thing that Paul of Tarsus invented Jesus Christ. Now we can be lost with Jesus Christ.

[Deva]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

 

So you are a heretic. You follow the same philosophy as Marcion. But you probably don't know who he was.

 

 

I have some sympathy for his ideas. But I would NOT throw away the Old Testament.

 

Why not? You said "you can actually forget about the Old Testament". Please explain in detail why we should do that.

[mymistake]

Is it your theory that the NT was created by the Roman empire?? That is a novel idea, I must say.

 

You've never heard of Emperor Constantine or the Council of Nicaea? You didn't hear about the heresy purges? Heck the Church of Rome was still executing people for heresy long after the Roman Empire fell and into the Middle Ages. At times people could bribe their way into becoming Pope and their idea of evidence was to have a relic - a bone from a dead saint or a shard of the "True" cross. That is where your religion comes from.

[centauri]

You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

That's exactly the type of statement that exposes Christianity as revisionist theology.

[Foxy Methoxy]

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

That would be putting too strongly. But it is somewhat correct. You can actually forget about the Old Testament and just stick to the New. You will go further towards understanding God.

 

So how come the Roman Empire's book helps us understand God?

 

 

A key point from this 2000 year old book (and remaining THE best seller all thru 2000 years! ) is that God is Love. ( 1John 4:16 ) This idea turns out to be the key notion in understanding God.

 

The notion of God is Love is also key in understanding Hinduism and Jainism, as well as many obscure cults throughout history. How do I know which "God is Love" god is the right one to worship? The one who truly created and loves me?

 

 

 

The one with Jesus Christ.

 

And why is the one with Jesus Christ better than the one with Krishna? Or the one with Mithra? Or the one with Hor-par-Kraat?