Former Christian Friend Became An Atheist/satanist

[Realist]

Listen Folks,

 

My other old friend JUST died in a car accident last week. His funeral was yesterday. I posted a thread about that. Anyway...he was once a Christian and then stopped believing and went his own way. Then BAM! Right out of the blue, he dies in a sudden car accident. I dont know what happened the last minutes of his life, but I dont think he was saved. How do you think that made me feel? I felt horrible to hear that. What if I was able to reach out to him and help him or something. I dont know where he is at right now...but I dont believe it is heaven. Its possible that he called to Jesus when the car accident happened, but not if he was killed instantly. Seriously, that woke me up big time.

 

I didnt want the same thing to happen to this friend. We dont know what will happen tomorrow.

 

 

... sorry to hear about your friend .... but what a shame he is not able to tell you that you are the one who has got it wrong!

[Guest Justyna]

Astreja,

 

INTENTION is everything...somtimes words fail and get twisted, but intentions are everything. I did not intentionally go out of my way to hurt him. Try telling the Supreme Court of Justice that intentions dont matter. If you are arrested for killing someone, your intentions are very important. Did you kill someone because you were defending yourself, or were you trying to intentionally kill them for no reason? Big difference, and very important.

[Astreja]

INTENTION is everything...somtimes words fail and get twisted, but intentions are everything.

No, intentions are most certainly not 'everything' -- They are a part of criminal law (for instance, mens rea is used to determine whether a death is manslaughter or first-degree murder) but ultimately we are judged (in law and in life) for our actions.

 

Whenever intention and action are in conflict, we generally go by what actually happened rather than what various people claim to have been thinking at the time. There appears to be a major conflict between what you intended and how it was received. My sympathies are with your ex-friend, as I can sympathize with his reaction. If you had done a similar thing to Me, My reaction would have been virtually identical in all material respects, including cutting off contact.

 

In fact, if your words had even the slightest negative effect on My livelihood, I would not only cut off contact -- I would retain a lawyer and sue you for defamation. Seriously, Justyna -- I'm not a lawyer, but it's possible that what you posted about him could be grounds for a lawsuit.

 

The people who dont follow Jesus...are really following Satan. What part of that dont you understand?

What part of "You can't actually 'follow' something that you sincerely think is imaginary" don't you understand?

[Guest Justyna]

I dont think it would be considered defamation per se. I NEVER mentioned his name here. I posted a link to his website, but it can be ANY of the band members that I am referring to. Its a wild guess. I never said his name. No one knows who I am talking about..if they do, then they guessed because I never mentioned his name.

 

If I get sued, then I will deal with that when/if I cross that bridge.

[dagnarus]

All around the mulberry bush

The monkey chased the weasel;

The monkey thought 'twas all in fun,

Pop! goes the weasel.

[Ouroboros]

Listen Folks,

 

My other old friend JUST died in a car accident last week. His funeral was yesterday. I posted a thread about that. Anyway...he was once a Christian and then stopped believing and went his own way. Then BAM! Right out of the blue, he dies in a sudden car accident. I dont know what happened the last minutes of his life, but I dont think he was saved. How do you think that made me feel? I felt horrible to hear that. What if I was able to reach out to him and help him or something. I dont know where he is at right now...but I dont believe it is heaven. Its possible that he called to Jesus when the car accident happened, but not if he was killed instantly. Seriously, that woke me up big time.

 

I didnt want the same thing to happen to this friend. We dont know what will happen tomorrow.

Emotional argument.

 

I know someone who was a Christian who died in a terrible car crash. It scares me that he didn't know that Santa's workshop was the place he was supposed to go to and not the the evil coal mines controlled by the Easter bunny!

 

Sorry. But emotional arguments schtinks up to the heavens. It's terrible that he died in a car accident, but don't use that to propagate and promulgate your delusions.

 

 

I'm with BDP. I'm getting rather tired of your tirades and incessant repetitions.

[bdp]

Santa didn't murder his elves or reindeer for us though. And without bloodshed, Christmas just isn't that meaningful.

 

[Guest Justyna]

It would be kind of hard to say that I defamed him, since no one knows who I am talking about. I am not a lawyer though, so I dont know. What I do know is that God says "Dont touch My anointed." I can stand on that Word. If I get sued over this, it wont end well for the parties involved.

 

Besides I will just tell the judge that I was trying to save his soul. I know the judge wont buy that (and I might have to pay a fine) but that is nothing. The real Judge of Earth and Heaven is coming and He will judge me oneday.

 

I am not afraid of courts..they put Jesus on trial too, then found Him guilty when He was 100% innocent, then killed Him.

 

Oh..I gotta share. I was checking my e-mail and I subscribe to this one Christian News Letter...anyway, a new one came today in my e-mail and guess what the title of the letter was? "GOOD JOB MY GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT." That made my day, and I sort of think it means I did good, stood up for Jesus and He is proud of me. Ahhh the small things

[Ouroboros]

Exactly ILoveMyBrain!

 

Santa sucks....he has to come EVERY flipping year, while Jesus came once and took care of business once and for all for everyone.

No. You don't understand Santa's plan with our lives. He's with us all the time. Just write down on a piece of paper what you want to tell him, and he knows it immediately. He loves you, you know.

 

And the evil Easter Bunny will not be able to hurt or harm you anymore, because Santa's elves protect you (if you're nice). But if you're naughty, you will end up in the coal mines. Sorry, but that's what Santa has told me.

[Ouroboros]

Astreja,

 

INTENTION is everything...somtimes words fail and get twisted, but intentions are everything. I did not intentionally go out of my way to hurt him. Try telling the Supreme Court of Justice that intentions dont matter.

Hrrm... Actually, SCOTUS rarely deal with intentions about the matter. They tend to the difficult task of interpreting the constitution most of the time, not the intentions of some petty perpetrator.

 

If you are arrested for killing someone, your intentions are very important. Did you kill someone because you were defending yourself, or were you trying to intentionally kill them for no reason? Big difference, and very important.

Criminal cases are usually tried in lower courts, not in the supreme court. Sorry. Play again!

[Vigile]

I prayed over it, and I have peace about it now.

 

Oh goodie. You get to act like an ass to your friend and all you do is pray over it and get some peace and all is better.

 

What a system of justice and morality!

 

Not so nice for your friend though who is still offended by you being an ass.

[Ouroboros]

... Ahhh the small things

AAaww. The small brains... they're so cute...

[Vigile]

Wrong is when you allow your friend to go down a path that YOU KNOW

 

You have a really difficult time distinguishing between the meaning of "think" and "know."

 

You have no proof but your own feelings. That means you think, not know. And you my dear flushed your friendship down the toilette because of something you think. That makes you a bad friend.

[OnceConvinced]

 

He also told me that things are going to get "worse and uglier." I am not called to be "nice" and "sweet" and to tell people what they want to hear. I am called to tell the TRUTH..and the TRUTH is hard to accept. I know I am called to do this with love, and I believe that I do preach Gods Word with love. I was sitting in church and God brought to my attention a pastor I used to have back when I was just a teenager. He was great, very powerful and very gifted. I remember sitting in church when he was a pastor and he would constantly be "offending" people with the TRUHT. I remember people left the church as a result. I remember there was a lot of controvesry and drama. I remember him praying over me and anointing me that I would have the same anointing as him. (actually a double portion) Well today at church God reminded that I do have the same anointing as my old pastor. Im very controversal...I speak the Word and this is just the beginning. I know the same anointing flows through me now.

 

I once had a great pastor. He was truly inspiring, great, powerful and gifted. His teachings were one of the reasons I went into ministries and really went all out to serve God. He always challenged and you could never feel comfortable just pew sitting in his church. Sadly a year or so later he had an affair with one of the women he was councelling, a demon-possessed woman. He even took her prophecies she made seriously. His marriage fell apart and a lot of people left the church because he'd virtually become a cult leader rather than a pastor.

 

My point? Just because your pastor might have been a great influence on you, does not mean you should want to emulate his methods. NOr does it mean he was one of God's annointed. Pastors are just fallible men just like the others, so should be seen as such. I've seen too many people hero-worship pastors.

 

I dont think I will have a lot of friends, which is a good thing I am so close to God and that He is my best friend.

 

oh no,justyna. Look I think you're a nice woman who means well, so I'm saying please don't settle for his. This will just make you a miserable Christian. IN my experience it's real positive human relationships that make you happy. Not God. I can see that throughout my life and I wish I'd worked it out long ago. You may not believe that right now, but maybe a little bit further down the track you'll realise it. Look for strong healthy relationships with real people. That's what everyone needs. God will only act as a placebo and your happiness won't last for long.

Women are expected to sit there and not say anything and just nod...I am not like that. I have boldness now and I am not afraid to speak up. Not at all. I dont "look" like I am this way, but I am. I think people expect sweetness from me, and when I hit them with the TRUTH..they are shocked that I speak like that. Im not apologizing for that, cause that is how God is making me to be. I was different and He changed me to have confidence in HIm and His Word. I am not bothered if people talk about me or say I am wrong or this that and the other. I know where I stand, and it is well with my soul. There will be plenty more people I offend...thats how I think. This is not the first nor last time. I am fine with that. Theres a price that needs to be paid, and I will gladly pay it.

 

So I take it you have not problem defying God's commands that women remain silent and should not be permitted to teach?

[Crazy Donna]

More and more I am realizing that the Bible is very offensive to people...it cuts them deep and it hurts. I use a Bible verse to say what He said about the black and white-ness of following Him, then someone says to me that "oh well He never said that. Somone put words in HIs mouth." NO He really did say that. He also said you will lose friends and family for His name's sake. I dont think ministry is easy, and I dont think I am going to make a lot of friends by going into it. Perhaps some yes...but many people will get offended by what Jesus said etc.

 

Just because everyone on here says I am wrong, doesnt mean I am. The majority of people thought that Jesus was lying and not the Son of God. Only a few people believed Him..then they killed Him. It did not mean they were right. He is the Son of God, and they were wrong. SO I am not really bothered that most people on ex-christian think I am wrong. I expect that.

 

Just to clarify, I knew him 10 years ago. I did not talk to him till recently. I said it is good that our friendship ended now, as opposed to if he and I kept talking, then it ended a year from now. That would have been harder to deal with. I guess it is not meant to be. Ive said that before.

 

Also, an ex-christian can be an accusuer of the brethern. So I dont take your guys bad comments to heart.....because if I am for HIm and you guys are clearly against Him....you will not like me no matter what I say.

 

I think Jesus' message is about love and to love your neighbor as yourself...but I am finding out just how controversal His message is, and how much it affects people to the core of their being. They either accept Him or they reject Him. There is no in between. Its pretty extreme I guess, but thats how it is. I am for God 100%. I dont have a problem with Him or His ways whatsoever. To me He is God, He can do what He wants. I dont accept half of HIs message, I accept it all. Thats the problem...people like God when He is all loving and kind, but when He gets serious and tells us to repent, we dont like Him anymore...and then say well He must not exist cause He is mean.

 

I didnt lose sleep over this. It bothered me yesterday (obviously) but today is a new day and there are more people to reach and share God with who are more open to Him. My friend is just not open to God at the moment. I can respect that. I should focus on touching the lives of other people who are ready and eager to accept Jesus and His message.

 

And yeah..I want to do Christian counseling/ministry. Not secular. That is correct. I think counseling without God is a failure. We need God to be the center of our lives..that is the only way it will work..that is the only way people will be healed. I believe that whole heartedly. I really do. I think a life lived without Christ is a waste....and will not end well.

I find a lot of the bible offensive, but not for the reasons you think I do. I don't believe that the bible is any more authoritative on morality and how to live my life than "The Great Escape" by Paul Brickhill or a trashy woman's magazine. My distaste for the bible is based on things that are morally reprehensible, which it endorses, such as the stoning to death of a woman if she is raped in the city. Such instructions blame victims and punish victims for horrible acts inflicted on them by others. No loving god could do that. As a character reference for god, it's content like this (I could go on and on with examples) that show him to be a monster, and a fiction. My distaste for the bible has nothing to do with respect for it or it's contents. It's just a barbaric book written by and for barbaric people. No god involved, just the sick bigoted beliefs of an ancient culture. It does not 'cut me deep' or 'hurt' me. It just sickens me with it's obvious contradictions and it's contempt for humanity. So lets get that clear.

 

You have no way of confirming whether jesus was a real person, or if, as a person, he actually said those words. During the time he was supposedly alive, no other historians in that region (Pliny and Seneca) mentioned him. Funny that. If someone was going around raising people from the dead and performing miracles, surely two of the most reliable historians of the era would have recorded something. But no. And most of the gospels were written centuries after the time jesus supposedly lived. You need to get your facts straight. I have a major in history, and a major in religion and philosophy. I have studied biblical languages. I have studied the religions of the Levant, and the history of the known world during that period. I actually know what I'm talking about, and I've learned it from people with no agenda to push -- particularly no religious agenda. Nobody outside of fundamentalist christianity believes what you believe about the bible. Most mainstream christians, when presented with the known evidence, would admit that it is unlikely if he existed that the gospels record, verbatim, his commentary. They realise that there was a huge expanse of time between when jesus supposedly died, and when the gospels were written. That is a huge strike against the reliability of the text. Common sense would tell you that we are telling you the truth.

 

I'm not offended by 'what jesus said'. I'm offended by your obnoxious "I'm ALWAYS RIGHT" attitude. You know what? You're unbearable. Even if I was a christian, and believed what you were saying, I'd still want to slap you silly for being so rude and obnoxious. We are not rejecting jesus, we're rejecting you. FOr your behaviour. Get over it. Stop behaving like a fucking four year old and act like a grown woman. Grown adults take responsibility for their behaviour. They don't make stupid, childish excuses for why they are always right, when everyone is telling them they are obviously in the wrong.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you hadn't behaved the way you behaved, you'd still have a friend. That's all the evidence you need.

 

My life is not a waste. I have achieved more and done more for humanity as an ex christian than I ever was able to as a christian. And I have done these awesome things because I legitimately care about people, not because I want to bribe them with my actions to become christians. That is what you were trying to do to your friend. Bribe him with friendship so you could manipulate him into becoming a christian. That's shitty. That's not love, that's self serving, selfish, and ugly behaviour. He was right turning down your friendship. Kudos to him, for seeing you for the manipulative bitch that you are.

 

Stop behaving like a child. You're twenty eight, for fucks sake. You don't have the maturity to borrow a library book, let alone have a real friendship with someone.

[Crazy Donna]

If you dont believe in Jesus, then you ARE against Him.

 

If you believe in Jesus and dont serve Him, then you are also against Him.

 

 

Thats very simple to see and understand. Its very black and white.

If jesus wanted us to be part of his brethren, why would he let us NOT believe in him? You admit that we don't believe in jesus, as we have said previously. So why would he let that happen?

 

Because he wants us to BURN! BURN BURN BURN! He loves us so much that the only thing that makes him happy is our horrible suffering. Yay for jesus. NOT.

 

You seriously can't see the problem in your thinking, can you?

 

And if you think that your behaviour here is 'serving him', I can probably find a few bible verses that would tell you emphatically that you aren't. So I guess we'll be seeing each other in the firey pits of hell, Justyna. I'll save you some marshmallows.

[Crazy Donna]

If you dont believe in Jesus, then you ARE against Him.

 

If you believe in Jesus and dont serve Him, then you are also against Him.

 

 

Thats very simple to see and understand. Its very black and white.

That's not what Jesus said. Mark 9:38-41

John said to him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone* casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.’ 39But Jesus said, ‘Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterwards to speak evil of me. 40Whoever is not against us is for us. 41For truly I tell you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ will by no means lose the reward.

Jesus said that those who are not against him are with him. He didn't say that those who are not with him are against him like you're claiming.

Please accept my thunderous applause, Neon. Excellent work.

[Crazy Donna]

Neon,

 

I see where you are coming from now. I see your point. In that particular example Jesus does have dinner with sinners....in another part He calls them evil and possessed by satan. He acknowledged that they are loved, but He is very clear that their sin will keep them from God and from heaven. Thats exactly what I did. I showed loved toward my friend, but I was not going to let him go down the wrong path. I wanted to sit down and have dinner with my friend..I wanted to hang out with him, but he decided that he didnt want to be my friend anymore. So I never really got the chance to "sit and have dinner with him." I would have gladly done that, in fact I was looking forward to it. I said I would even see his band play. I extended myself to him, but he refused the invitation.

 

So it just depends on what you read in the Bible....the example you used is just one example. There are others where He calls them deaf and rebellious people.

 

I dont see how I was being judgemental toward my friend. I dont see it at all. Also I was just thinking, if he was so offened that I said he was an atheist/satanist...then maybe its becasue he is. He knows he is not for the Bible God and got upset with me that I said that. Have you heard the lyrics...clearly anti-christ. Clearly satanic in nature. I called a duck a duck, and he didnt like it. Thats like getting mad at me for saying the sky is blue. Well the sky IS blue.

 

ETA: And please dont say that he is just expressing himself and nothing more. I get that..but what is in our hearts comes out in our lives. For example, I write poetry, but it is not about evil and satan and things like that. Thats not in my heart. Its the fruit.

He was not offended because he is an atheist/satanist. He is offended because of your OBNOXIOUS BEHAVIOUR. You betrayed his trust. You tried to manipulate him. Get it through your thick head. You behaved horribly. If someone did to me what you did to him, I would never ever want to speak to them or see them again. Ever.

 

Just because you think you did what you did from good intentions doesn't make it right. If you were on a boat, and there was a madman on the boat who was going to burn it down and kill hundreds of people by doing so, and the only way you could stop him was to kill him, to save those hundreds of people, killing the madman might be the most humane course of action. But it still would NOT make killing the man a good thing to do, because you'd be killing someone. Do you understand my analogy? Just because you did what you did thinking you were doing the right thing, does not make what you did right.

 

You insulted him, and offended him through your behaviour. You should accept that. THe reason you're not hearing anything 'from god' about this is because you're so full of pride and so arrogant that you think you're right and you're not really listening for that little voice that tells you your in the wrong. You don't hear it because you don't WANT to hear it. But it's there, and it'll get you one day soon. Sometimes I wish there was a god, because you're gonna get a slap in the face from reality some time soon. That won't be pretty.

[OnceConvinced]

If you dont believe in Jesus, then you ARE against Him.

 

If you believe in Jesus and dont serve Him, then you are also against Him.

 

 

Thats very simple to see and understand. Its very black and white.

 

It's completely illogical, not to mention paranoid. Humans who think like that we deem to be mentally unstable.

[OnceConvinced]

 

Oh and I do see him playing in a band in the future, but for Christ. I felt that in my heart. Not saying this is a prophesy or anything, I am just saying what I felt in my heart at church this morning. I think he will come to God oneday. I think he can use his talents and abilities for God instead of against God. I think he can lead a lot of people to God if he wanted to....thats why the enemy works him so hard and is against him so much. The enemy knows that he can be powerful for God and so he works over-time to make sure he does not come to know God and the Truth.

 

 

 

Oh God, I used to hear this sort of stuff all the time from Christians. But none of them were ever right. It's just wishful thinking, nothing more. Maybe one day when you realise this is never going to happen, you'll remember back to all these things Jesus supposedly showed you and the you'll realise just what a crock of shit it all really is.

[Crazy Donna]

Astreja,

 

INTENTION is everything...somtimes words fail and get twisted, but intentions are everything. I did not intentionally go out of my way to hurt him. Try telling the Supreme Court of Justice that intentions dont matter. If you are arrested for killing someone, your intentions are very important. Did you kill someone because you were defending yourself, or were you trying to intentionally kill them for no reason? Big difference, and very important.

But it doesn't matter for god. He doesn't care whether you were trying to do the right thing or not. If you sin, according to your doctrine, it's whammo -- hell for eternity.

 

He doesn't give a stuff about intentions. He doesn't care that you feel bad about it. He only apparently cares if you beg for forgiveness, and even then that forgiveness is temporary, because again, despite your best intentions, you'll sin again.

 

Good thing he doesn't exist.

[OnceConvinced]

. How said is it to wake up and not really know what you believe in?

 

I find it sadder to think that there are people going around believing in imaginery gods and wasting their life serving non-existant beings.

 

 

How said is it to wonder around aimlessly knowing that you will die oneday soon and believing that there is nothing that follows after we die.

I find is sadder that there are people who believe that there is something after we die so waste their life serving imaginery Gods, rather than going out and living life to the fullest. This is all we have. There is no evidence of anything after death. So let's not wander about aimlessly and let's not worry about serving imaginery deities. Let's get out there and enjoy life.

 

How good it is to know you have a purpose,

 

I certainly have purpose in my life and don't need religion for that.

 

that there is a God that loves you sooo much He died for you and wants you to be with HIm forever.

 

This is just wishful thinking.

 

Why be boring, dull and uninteresting?

 

Was that your life before you became a christian? I feel very sad for you. My life is certainly not boring, dull or uninteresting. Life is what you make of it. It's sad that you feel you need religion to brighten up your life. Very sad indeed. I guess it's better than committing suicide though.

 

 

Why not be radical and stir the world up for change and for God? Why not go for it 1000%? If its not all, its nothing. Go big, or go home...ahah. Thats so true.

 

Why not just be radical and stir the world up for the benefit of yourself and other humans? Why do it for God? Go out and give it 1000% for yourself and for your loved ones. You don't need God for that.

 

I dont have intentions of living a quiet little life where I just sort of get along and just take life at is comes. NO, I am ready to LIVE and live for God fully. I love it...my personality is very extreme. Theres no in between for me.

 

I feel sorry for you that you feel you need a God to make your life worth while. Very sorry indeed. I hope it works for you. It never worked for me.

[OnceConvinced]

The people who dont follow Jesus...are really following Satan.

 

I flat out deny Satan. I hate Satan and refuse to follow him or worship him. I will have nothing to do with him.

[OnceConvinced]

Hmm...just had a thought about the actual topic in this thread.

 

If you see someone is walking on railroad tracks, and there is a train that is coming and is going to kill them...wouldnt you as a friend try to get them to get off those tracks? I would. That is sort of how I see this now. I think this is a good analogy.

 

If God was loving he'd be the one telling us to get off the tracks. He wouldn't be passing the buck to someone else. Of course if he didn't give a shit, then he might leave it up to some religions whacko.

[OnceConvinced]

IF YOU DONT SERVE JESUS, YOU BY DEFAULT SERVE SATAN.

 

 

And that's bullshit! IT IS ILLOGICAL AND PARANOID! IT IS THE RANTINGS OF A PARANOID AND DELUSIONAL PERSON!