Former Christian Friend Became An Atheist/satanist

[HRDWarrior]

For starters, give up some of your (rather incorrect) connections - specifically because if he is anti-religion, that he is a satanist. Two very, very, VERY different things. Just because christians try to make that connection, does not make it true.

 

Call him what he says he is (an atheist) and accept him for who he is, and quite trying to label him as something you find more interesting.

[Ouroboros]

Well its weird...cause I think if he spends sooooo much of his time trying to be against God and calling God a liar and evil (some of his lyrics do that) then its like he is admitting that he does believe in God. Yet on his info it says he is an atheist. It does not say "satanist" but again, the fact that he hates Jesus so much means he is anit-christ...which sort of means its from the enemy. If you are not for Jesus, you are pretty much for satan. Thats how I see it.

It's still not the same.

 

I'm not a satanist. I don't believe in God nor Satan, so how can I be a Satanist? Are Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, Jews, and Zoroastrians also Satanists?

 

I have been on here for a little while, and a lot of people here have told me that I dont listen, and that I dont understand etc. Well now that I have my old friend in my life, its sort of an opportunity to understand where he is coming from and perhaps better understand atheists/ex-christians. I dont know.

The first thing you have to get into your head is the anti-people attitude you have isn't a good approach. You hate what other people believe or think. So the first step is to be more tolerant and more accepting to your friend.

 

If you ever mention to him that you think he's a Satanist, you might end your friendship.

 

Hopefully something good will come out of this. I think God is doing something in my life, I want to learn, I dont want to judge and I dont want to reject him.

But from most of the things you have said to us on this board, I can only conclude that you are EXTREMELY judgmental, and you are rejecting people left and right because of it. If you want to be more approachable, you have to change your attitude.

 

Hes totally awesome..

So he's a totally awesome satanist? How can that be? I thought he was a serial killer and donkey rapist since he's not a Christian.

 

but I am sure along the way something must have happened to make him like this. I cant imagine that he has peace if all day he and his bandmates write songs about how awful God is. My heart goes out to him. I want to know what happened to him to make him that way, but I dont want to force it.

Perhaps you have to learn what happened and be more open to him. You are already judging by making statements about his "anti-God" music.

 

I kind of feel led to minister to ex-christians. I know you guys are like "what!" cause you say I suck at it, but maybe this is my chance to get better at it and try to hear his side of the story. I never said I was perfect, far from it..I want this to better me as a person.

According to the Bible, we can't go back. We are forever lost. At least that's what I remember Paul's opinion was.

[Ouroboros]

You could try an exorcism on him. Maybe an exorcism with a happy ending.

Unless he's killed in the process.

[Guest Justyna]

Hey Ex-Christian Community,

 

You could be seeing a whole new Justyna soon..you never know. Maybe my new reconnected friendship with him will change my ways and I will be better and see the things that you guys say I dont. Im open to that. Im open to really understanding why someone no longer believes and how that really works. This is kind of unexpected, but I like it. I really like him as a person and care about him a lot and was soooooooooo happy when I found him again. Maybe he will teach me a few things, maybe I will teach him etc. Who knows....the possibilities are endless now.

[Crazy Donna]

So I find my old friend from like 10 years ago on facebook this past week. We start talking and even though he was raised in a Christian family, he no longer believes. Its not just that he doesnt believe...he is strongly against Christianity now. I am not sure what happened to him, cause I just started talking to him again. I really care about him and glad he is in my life but he is now in a band whose sole purpose is to bring down Christianity. I am not sure if he is a satanist or not...but it sounds like it. To me a satanist is anyone who is strongly against Jesus (and this guy is). His lyrics are very much anti-christian and the whole purpose of the band is to be against God. When he and I were friends, his faith was sort of rocy back then, but I never thought it would turn to this. I want to be his friend and I want to even see his band play because I care about him, but I dont understand this hate. I mean its one thing if people want to leave Christianity, but I dont understand the hate and anger and passion to try to say mean things about it. I dont want to judge my friend cause I dont know all that happened. I see his anti-christian posts on FB and he sees my pro-christian posts on my status. Its kind of weird...yet we still talk and exchange messages. I hope he and I can be friends, hes a really awesome guy, but I dont know how close we can be considering our contradicting views. I got in contact with his mom, and she used to be a very very strong Christian...now she doesnt believe anymore. Its so weird. How can I still be friends with both of them without letting my fatih or their lack of faith get in the way? I do care about them both, their whole family actually. This was news to me. Oh and by the way...to all of your guys suprise, I DID NOT preach to them about God or anything yet. I really have no intention at this point. I just want to be a good friend.

A satanist is someone who worships satan the same way you worship god. It requires a belief in god. So saying "to me, a satanist is anyone who is strongly against jesus", that means that you believe that anyone who is not a christian must be a satanist. Honestly, to say something like that is genuinely insulting to others. 'satanist' implies a whole lot of negative qualities that most nonchristians are fundamentally against anyway. Furthermore, you are therefore denying the existence of atheists, buddhists, muslims, jews, sikhs, hindus, taoists, pagans, and any other religion that does not believe in your version of god. It is like saying that all people who are not X must be Y, and in reality, that doesn't work. For example, all the people in prisons are either murderers or rapists. You immediately disregard the fact that many people in prison are there for theft, white collar crime, armed robbery, assault, or unpaid parking tickets. The universe is not binary. There are many, many options.

 

I think your friend has just deconverted and no longer believes in god. That is very different to replacing your belief and worship of god with belief and worship of satan, because to believe in satan, one must also believe in god. If he does not believe in god, it is unlikely he would believe in satan instead. That's like me not believing in Santa, but believing in the Easter Bunny.

 

When you don't believe in something, you can't just magically make yourself believe in it by trying. Either stuff doesn't add up, or it does. I think for your friend, he has just recognised the inconsistencies of christianity, and for the sake of his intellectual honesty, cannot believe.

 

I strongly recommend that you actually ask him what he believes now. You will most likely find he is an atheist, not a satan worshipper. You should get this clear before you go assuming any values or attitudes he has. If he's your friend, and you ask politely what he defines himself by these days, he will probably tell you. IT will be better for the relationship because you will know what he is, not be guessing. It'll make it harder for you to not put your foot in it.

 

A lot of people feel strong hostility to christianity when they deconvert, because christianity is inherently damaging. It makes a lot of promises it can't deliver, harms you emotionally and psychologically, and affects your relationships with others in damaging ways. When you are a christian, you can only see people as christian, or not christian. That means you cannot have healthy relationships with people who are not christians, because you will always bring a vibe of pity and self superiority to the relationship. Your advice will always be patronisng, because you believe you are always 100% right, because your religion tells you so. When people deconvert, they bring a lot of baggage. He could be just going through an anger period (this passes) and it is colouring his music. To him, you see, if he's an atheist, god and satan are not real, they are as real as the tooth fairy. So the messages in his music, and his posts, might not actually mean as much to him as they do to you.

 

Yeah, and well done for not preaching. If you want to keep this friend, I suggest you take a leaf out of Kathlene's book and refrain from preaching. You will only alienate him and lose a friend. There is nothing you can say, no matter how inspired you think you are by the holy spirit, that would make him magically change his beliefs. As a former christian, he has most likely heard it all at one time or another. Just like us on this site. So respect that.

[Guest Justyna]

The only reason I say people are satanists if they dont believe in Jesus is because that is what I was told. "If you are not for God, you are against Him." So that is where that comes from. I dont mean disrespect by it, but I see how it comes off now and I will stay away from that word and way of thinking. I was just saying what I was told.....but I see its wrong.

[Legion]

Hey Ex-Christian Community

Hey there Justyna

 

You rarely just talk to me. I'm friendly. <--- see the smile? That proves it!

 

Do I need to sing for you again?

[Yalta]

I guess I hardly have anything to add to this, except I agree with a lot of what the other posters are saying.

 

A Satanist worships Satan, which means that they believe in Satan. An atheist doesn't believe in Satan.

 

But you say his song lyrics are very explicitly anti-Christian? If that's the case, he might be going through a phase that many people who convert out of a belief system (like, say, from liberal to conservative or vice versa) of outright hating their former belief system. It could just be a phase that might last a few years. When it's over, he'll probably be an atheist who simply doesn't go around badmouthing Christianity (or other belief systems) all the time, as he'll have gotten that initial phase out of his system. But at the moment, if he recently deconverted, he could be very upset about his former beliefs and the fact that he had them for so long.

 

The deconversion process is not the same for many. Some people lost their fear of hell, some GAINED a fear of death (like me, as no longer believing heaven is real is, well, scary), some people felt freed by the lack of restrictions on every aspect of their life that some forms of Christianity bring, while others felt upset that they no longer believed that God would guide them through life. Some feel sad that they no longer believe, because their belief filled them with hope, even if they now feel that it was false hope all along. Others feel angry and upset, because they believe that they'd been wasting their time following a dream that wasn't true.

 

Your friend is most likely of the "angry and upset because he wasted his time with a false belief system" variety, and that likely shows through in his lyrics. And if he's outright attacking, say, God (I didn't listen to the music so pardon me if I'm off), it's probably from a hypothetical sense: that is, "if God was real, then _______".

 

Okay, I briefly looked through the MySpace profile and saw a song was called something like "Tonight We Watch the Children Burn". Ehh... I personally find that rather distasteful, but it's probably in playful fun, much like when Creature Feature made a song called "Bound and Gagged" with very morbid lyrics, but an upbeat melody. A lot of what musicians say in music is not meant to be taken literally.

 

Is your friend very different in day-to-day conversation when compared to his stage persona?

[Ouroboros]

The only reason I say people are satanists if they dont believe in Jesus is because that is what I was told. "If you are not for God, you are against Him." So that is where that comes from. I dont mean disrespect by it, but I see how it comes off now and I will stay away from that word and way of thinking. I was just saying what I was told.....but I see its wrong.

Good.

 

Put it this way, if someone doesn't like dogs, it doesn't mean he or she wants to kill them. It's kind of a hyperbole to take an atheist (non-belief) and stretch that to be the same as a satanist (someone who believes in Satan). But of course, there might be different kinds of satanists. Maybe there are some who are satanists without believing in Satan?

 

To be honest, you believe in God, you believe Satan exists, so you are in fact more of a Satanist than an atheist ever can be.

[Legion]

Yalta that was good post in my opinion.

[Crazy Donna]

The only reason I say people are satanists if they dont believe in Jesus is because that is what I was told. "If you are not for God, you are against Him." So that is where that comes from. I dont mean disrespect by it, but I see how it comes off now and I will stay away from that word and way of thinking. I was just saying what I was told.....but I see its wrong.

There are a lot of ideas in christianity like this that do similar things. It is good you have at least noticed this one. See, clinging unbendingly to certain beliefs and letting them colour your thinking damages relationships. By all means keep your beliefs, but recognise when they are colouring your expectations or attitudes. Be the kind of christian that treats others with respect. Your christianity is only reality for you. Always keep that in mind. Don't let it alienate others, or you could be in for a pretty miserable life.

 

I'm a feminist. But I don't go around forcing it on everyone I meet, even when we disagree. Respecting others' attitudes or beliefs is a cornerstone to good social interaction. I don't go telling stay at home mums that they are making the wrong decision. It might be the right decision for them. Treat your christianity as an opinion, not the ultimate truth. Your social interaction will be a lot easier.

[Guest Justyna]

Hi Legion! Nice to see you..and yes you have always been very friendly to me. Thank you. And yes you can sing anytime you want.

 

Yalta: Yes my friend is super-duper nice to me. A super sweetheart .....I see your point that it just might be his music style. I told him that when he is in my town, I want to see his band. I mean I dont know how much I like the music, but you know he is my friend, so its all good. I guess it is sort of a show, and then when he is off stage he is very lovely.

[Legion]

I'm a feminist.

What do you tell a woman with a black eye?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing. She's already been told.

[Guest Justyna]

Well I do want to thank this board because you guys have helped me, and hopefully I will be a better Christian. I feel the past weeks that I have been here, I have learned a lot...so hopefully I can take that and now have a good relationship with my friend who does not believe. I dont know if that would have been possible before (perhaps, but perhaps not). It was kind of like a research project...and I saw how my views are seen by others. Its not that I am going to change my views, just get better at presenting them etc.

[Super FZL]

Its not that I am goin to change my views, just get better at presenting them etc.

 

This counts for something. Life is a learning process.

[Crazy Donna]

I'm a feminist.

What do you tell a woman with a black eye?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing. She's already been told.

Funny, but sad at the same time. We had a girl at work come in with a black eye, and she explained that she'd headbutted the bedside table. Even though we know she is telling the truth, we all had a field day making jokes like that.

 

I work in a factory with mostly women. Sometimes you just have to laugh at these things. If you didn't, you'd go crazy.

[Legion]

Hi Legion! Nice to see you..and yes you have always been very friendly to me. Thank you. And yes you can sing anytime you want.

Well, I'm only friendly to you because I want to lure you into Satanism.

 

 

 

 

Just kidding. Just kidding. The only thing I want to encourage you to do is think about what other people are telling you. Ask questions about it. Be curious. You have a brain, and it's meant to be used. I hope you don't take offense at me saying that. But when you believe and repeat what others are telling you about "either you're for Jesus or you're for Satan" then I think you are doing yourself a disservice. I know you're smarter than that.

[Legion]

Sometimes you just have to laugh at these things. If you didn't, you'd go crazy.

I think laughter can make the unbearable bearable.

[Ancey]

I know there is some brand of people who are call themselves satanist which does NOT (and I repeat, NOT) include a belief or worship of Satan or God- they are basically materialists and self-worshipers (something like that, really, I might be off, though). People who do actually worship Satan as an entity- sorry, but they're more nutty than Christians.

 

Your friend is an Ex-Christian- and if you haven't noticed from this board, a lot of Ex-Xians have negative views on religion and the Christian God, and enjoy poking fun at it/ insulting it. We've been burned by the religion in one way or another, and often we're still healing and the venting of emotions against it are useful to us. Ever hear that phrase to "not bottle it up, or you'll explode?"

[Guest Justyna]

Okay..so my friend and I have not had the "religion" talk yet. And I plan on keeping it this way, unless he mentions something first. So if he does in the future say something about religion...what should I say? How should I react. So far we are just talking via e-mail and facebook. Like I said I want to see him in person but my schedule is hectic and so is his. It must be weird when he gets my facebook status and is has some quote about Jesus. I wonder if he blocked me yet? So how should I handle it if he ever says anything about God etc? I know to not judge, listen, and respect. I get that much....I really want to know what made him stop believing but will not go there, unless he opens up first etc.

 

So what should I avoid saying if ever he says something about God/religion?

[ilovemybrain]

Justyna,

I'm very glad to hear you actually want to understand why people stop believing, and how that works. And none of us want to force you to change your beliefs either. We know, from having been there, what Christians are taught about apostates, and we know you may continue to think we were either never really believers or that we are just running from God. We just want you to understand we truly believe otherwise, and that it's not helpful to just ignore what we are saying about ourselves.

 

I read what you said about a time in your life when you were trying to get away from Christianity but deep down you still believed he was real. I can relate to this because it happened to me twice in my life. Deconversion is something else entirely, and I hope you will try to understand this. Most of us got to a point where we had so many questions about Christianity, that we began to really examine the evidence. Ex-Christians have come to the conclusion that God, as he is taught in the Bible, cannot be real, that the Bible is not true, infallible, and authoritative, and that Christianity is just a very long-running, elaborate mistake. In many cases, it has, in fact, been harmful. We realize you believe the opposite, and you're entitled to that belief.

 

I think you'll find that if you listen and treat us with respect, we will gladly reciprocate!

[ilovemybrain]

But of course I should add that I can't possibly speak for everyone here - you may have burnt some bridges to a crisp.

[ilovemybrain]

If he brings it up, just ask your questions about why he doesn't believe anymore. I think it will probably be much different talking to a friend IRL than it is to strangers on a forum. You can tell him what you believe, and why, and take it from there.

[Yalta]

Its not that I am going to change my views, just get better at presenting them etc.

 

Awesome. Presentation really is a big part of it. By and large, a lot of people don't care what others believe as long as they're not rude about it.

 

I have Christian coworkers who I get along with just fine, even though a number of them know I don't believe. We're pretty tolerant in my part of suburban New Jersey.

[Shyone]

Well its weird...cause I think if he spends sooooo much of his time trying to be against God and calling God a liar and evil (some of his lyrics do that) then its like he is admitting that he does believe in God. Yet on his info it says he is an atheist. It does not say "satanist" but again, the fact that he hates Jesus so much means he is anit-christ...which sort of means its from the enemy. If you are not for Jesus, you are pretty much for satan. Thats how I see it.

Well, on the one hand, you may be right about something, but classifying someone who speaks out against god and/or god's nature is not necessarily a Satanist. Seriously, it makes no more sense to call him a Satanist than it would to call him a Muslim.

 

I would never call someone a Satanist unless they called themselves that. And even then, it's such a weird religion that some Satanists don't believe Satan is real. Really.

 

Since you don't provide any quotes, may I suggest that he may be expressing himself in the hypothetical. We sometimes do that here to show that "even if god existed" he would not be worthy of worship.

 

It may become clear at some point, but most atheists would preface their remarks about god with the unspoken or unwritten phrase, "If God actually existed, then...". Is that clear?

 

For example, "[If God exists as described in the bible, then] He is a cruel, capricious, misogynistic, self-contradictory, murderous being."

 

But, then I think a person who believes in god, but thinks him horrible, is still a believer in god and technically not an atheist.

 

Without belief, however, no one can be "anti-christ" or "anti-god", just anti-religion since there is no christ and there is no god. I just thought of an analogy. Remember the play "The Music Man"? He had no instruments - he was a fraud. If someone had said, "You are a thief and a liar! There are no instruments!" they would not be considered "anti-instrument." There are no instruments to oppose; only the dishonesty of the man who claimed to have instruments.