Former Christian Friend Became An Atheist/satanist

[Guest Justyna]

Crazy Donna,

 

You said:

 

"I don't know if you're capable of being this guy's friend, honestly. You are always going to approach the relationship feeling superior because you are a christian and you think that he is misled. You will not be able to value his opinions because they are not 'from god'. What you posted above is proof enough that these beliefs are engrained in you too deeply for you to have a meaningful relationship with this guy. I'm telling you, he cannot be 'disappointed in god' if he doesn't believe in god. You cannot understand his perspective if you believe this could possibly be an option for how he feels. As a christian, you have opinions about the world and about others that you think, because you are a christian, are 100% right. That means that no matter what he says, you will still believe you are right, because that's what christianity tells you. Why would he want a friend who always thinks they are right and that there is something inherently wrong with him?"

 

Yeah I know it is going to be hard to have a real lastng friendship this way. We shall see what happens. There could be a breakthrough of some sorts. I shouldnt worry about it...I just got in contact with him and glad he is in my life again. Thats really all that matters right now.

 

ETA: Maybe I feel nervous about discussing the subjec of Christianity with him and likewise perhaps he does too..since he knows I believe and he doesnt anymore. Eh..who knows anymore. I think I will just take it oneday at a time and see what happens.

[Guest Valk0010]

I think this situation justnya, really depends on what your going to try for. If you go out of your way to try to save the fellow, you might lose the relationship. I think really if you want to not risk losing the relationship the best thing you could do is simply fiscuss, not debate just imteract with the friends ideas, and seriously try to consider them, and theen you put your views out for the friend to do the same. This is of course best done when your goal isnt preaching or witnessing. Just try to learn from each other. And also try your best to leave assumptions at the door.

[Guest Justyna]

Yeah but its difficult as a Christian because I know my first goal/purpose in life is to serve Christ..not necessarily be nice to everyone and try to please them and make them like me etc. So that is where my conflict comes into play. But at the same time I know that if I go about it the wrong way, it could ruin the friendship etc. Its kind of a fine line but I think it can be done. I CAN serve Christ by being his friend and showing my friend love and acceptance..afterall Christ would like that.

[Darklady]

Darklady,

 

And another thing..I have clearly stated that I have learned a lot by being on this board. (Maybe others learned from me as well). Is that a sufficient reason to be here? I hope so. Also, I was a member here in the first place because I was in the process of becoming an ex-christian. Never really happened, I went back...but that is why I came here originally. Then I had a change of heart.

 

I am a Christian..but I have friends who are ex-christians and who are atheists. My dad is a strong atheist. Nothing wrong with trying to better understand where they are coming from etc. Just because you dont get anything from me, doesnt mean someone wont.

 

 

You still haven’t come clean about your motives for being here. And no, I don't believe you are wanting to 'get help' to understand us or your friends better. So again, why are you on ex christian net? Trying to score points with your homicidal god?

[Dagan]

Justyna, why do you believe in a dualistic, Satan versus Jesus world? The bible does not show this kind of world, certainly not in the Old Testament.

 

The "if you're not for me you're against me" statements are cultish, and are what groups like Scientologists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and radical Muslims use to ostracize people who don't agree with them. Oh yeah, George W. Bush used it too ("If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists.")

 

Consider that perhaps those words were put into Jesus' mouth to strengthen the power of the leaders of the early church, not to help anyone live their lives.

 

And if you're going to be a good friend, do it for him, not for Jesus. No one wants to be a project.

[Guest Justyna]

Ummm..Darklady, why are you bothering me when I am doing nothing to you? And whats it to you as to why I am here? I gave you an answer already (which frankly I didnt have to) and you still dont accept that. You say I need to leave the board etc...how about you leave me alone? Thanks!

[lunaticheathen]

I don't know if you're capable of being this guy's friend, honestly. You are always going to approach the relationship feeling superior because you are a christian and you think that he is misled. You will not be able to value his opinions because they are not 'from god'. What you posted above is proof enough that these beliefs are engrained in you too deeply for you to have a meaningful relationship with this guy. I'm telling you, he cannot be 'disappointed in god' if he doesn't believe in god. You cannot understand his perspective if you believe this could possibly be an option for how he feels. As a christian, you have opinions about the world and about others that you think, because you are a christian, are 100% right. That means that no matter what he says, you will still believe you are right, because that's what christianity tells you. Why would he want a friend who always thinks they are right and that there is something inherently wrong with him?

 

This.

A million times this. This is why I honestly can't be close friends with most christians I've known. Especially evangelicals. That "I'm right, and you're not, how sad" crap ALWAYS seeps in. Fuck that.

And I just can't tell how sincere Justyna is, honestly. She's pissed me off pretty fucking badly. I'll let that just sit.

[Darklady]

Yeah but its difficult as a Christian because I know my first goal/purpose in life is to serve Christ..not necessarily be nice to everyone and try to please them and make them like me etc. So that is where my conflict comes into play. But at the same time I know that if I go about it the wrong way, it could ruin the friendship etc. Its kind of a fine line but I think it can be done. I CAN serve Christ by being his friend and showing my friend love and acceptance..afterall Christ would like that.

Do you by any chance not read what you write? This is such self-righteous shit.

[Guest Valk0010]

Yeah but its difficult as a Christian because I know my first goal/purpose in life is to serve Christ..not necessarily be nice to everyone and try to please them and make them like me etc. So that is where my conflict comes into play. But at the same time I know that if I go about it the wrong way, it could ruin the friendship etc. Its kind of a fine line but I think it can be done. I CAN serve Christ by being his friend and showing my friend love and acceptance..afterall Christ would like that.

[/qutry dialogue.Here is a simple start. Say to the fellow don't try to convert me and i won't try to convert you. But if you want to discuss things invokving say the proof or lack there ofg of god, then okay. But keep in mind your goal is going to have be at least to some extent, understanding not the grand commision. Dialogue and discussion is key. Talk with not at this person.

[Guest Justyna]

I like that...... "Dont try to convert me, and I wont try to convert you."

 

Sounds simple enough to me (and fair..ahahah).

[Guest Justyna]

Darklady,

 

Did YOU by any chance read what I wrote to you when I said, "LEAVE ME ALONE!" I dont need your negativity.

[Crazy Donna]

Ummm..Darklady, why are you bothering me when I am doing nothing to you? And whats it to you as to why I am here? I gave you an answer already (which frankly I didnt have to) and you still dont accept that. You say I need to leave the board etc...how about you leave me alone? Thanks!

I think what Darklady and a lot of others on this site think (myself included) is that you're just here to stir up trouble, insult us, act offended when we react, and make inflammatory remarks so you can get attention.

 

We base this on the fact that you have come on this site, done the above, and then post a thread like this and ignore the advice we give you. You are not here for your personal growth, because you refuse to take on board things we tell you. You argue every point, like you did in the last thread on people in prisons being atheists (still no evidence produced for that) on us being liars because you don't believe what we're telling you, etc. You're not here for personal growth or to learn about our perspectives. YOu're just here to insult and offend us.

 

That remark in the first posting about satanists being anyone who is not a christian is evidence of your dishonesty. There is no way someone with a tertiary education could possibly hold such a ridiculous perspective, especially since you've spent so much time on this site, and been exposed to other ideas. You wrote that specifically to insult us, and then pretended it was a misunderstanding. It's NOT. I'm calling you on it.

 

We all know there is no way someone like you could have a benign stereotype of satanists. You couldn't possibly believe, based on what you already believe, that satanists are harmless members of society. For you, satanists are the embodiment of evil. We know that that is the opinion you would have. So calling atheists satanists was not a mistake. It was an insult. But you're too chickenshit to admit it.

 

It's that kind of inflammatory, thoughtless, insulting behaviour that gets the hackles up on people who use this site. You might have the right to post here, but watch what you write, because some of us will tear you to shreds.

[Guest Justyna]

CrazyDonna,

 

I am not sure if you read this entire thread or not, but I was having a perfectly peaceful conversation with many of the members on this board. I was asking their advice and I have repeatedly said that I am going to listen to what they have to say and apply it to my friendship with the guy who does not believe. Who said I am going to ignore the advice? I have said over and over that I am going to use the advice in this thread and how I thought it was helpful etc. I dont know where you are getting the idea that I am stirring up trouble here or wanting attention etc...probably from the same place that you said I called people "liars" when I never did. Never did I say someone was a liar..in those words.

 

I was taught that if someone is not for Christ they are against Him..so that is where the whole satanist thing came from. It was not an insult..I was stating what I learned. Thats is really.

[Darklady]

Ummm..Darklady, why are you bothering me when I am doing nothing to you? And whats it to you as to why I am here? I gave you an answer already (which frankly I didnt have to) and you still dont accept that. You say I need to leave the board etc...how about you leave me alone? Thanks!

I think what Darklady and a lot of others on this site think (myself included) is that you're just here to stir up trouble, insult us, act offended when we react, and make inflammatory remarks so you can get attention.

 

We base this on the fact that you have come on this site, done the above, and then post a thread like this and ignore the advice we give you. You are not here for your personal growth, because you refuse to take on board things we tell you. You argue every point, like you did in the last thread on people in prisons being atheists (still no evidence produced for that) on us being liars because you don't believe what we're telling you, etc. You're not here for personal growth or to learn about our perspectives. YOu're just here to insult and offend us.

 

That remark in the first posting about satanists being anyone who is not a christian is evidence of your dishonesty. There is no way someone with a tertiary education could possibly hold such a ridiculous perspective, especially since you've spent so much time on this site, and been exposed to other ideas. You wrote that specifically to insult us, and then pretended it was a misunderstanding. It's NOT. I'm calling you on it.

 

We all know there is no way someone like you could have a benign stereotype of satanists. You couldn't possibly believe, based on what you already believe, that satanists are harmless members of society. For you, satanists are the embodiment of evil. We know that that is the opinion you would have. So calling atheists satanists was not a mistake. It was an insult. But you're too chickenshit to admit it.

 

It's that kind of inflammatory, thoughtless, insulting behaviour that gets the hackles up on people who use this site. You might have the right to post here, but watch what you write, because some of us will tear you to shreds.

 

Thank you donna for expressing my thoughts so well. I don't have an ounce of trust that Justyna is being honest here. I read her sanctimonious crap and wonder if she is as self deluded as she pretends.

[Guest Justyna]

If I want the attention..then why am I asking people to leave me alone? Wouldnt I want them to stick around so that I can "stir" trouble? I think not. I was having a great conversation with people who were contributing in a positive way (and me likewise) and then darklady came in here and told me to leave etc. Ummm no....you leave.

[lunaticheathen]

Never did I say someone was a liar..in those words.

 

Mmhmm. You just said we don't mean what we actually say, and mean what you think. So we don't speak the truth, and you know our minds better than we do.

Fuck you. I trust you as far as I can sling a gator.

[Guest Justyna]

Even Yalta commented that Darklady's comments were uncalled for...and Yalta is an ex-Christian, not a Christian.

 

There was no controversy in this thread until Darklady decided to pop in here and started being rude to me for no reason and telling me to leave the board, as though she owns or runs it.

 

And Crazy Donna it is difficult to sometimes have a conversation with you as you QUICKLY get upset and fly off the handle bars. Ive witnessed this with you. YOu get your emotions all in it, and you swtich from calm to fairly outraged in an instant. I appreciate your comments and insight and I think you have a lot to offer, but I never know what mood you are going to be in....calm or outraged. Thats fine, you can be who you are, I am just stating what I witnessed with talking to you. I try to stay calm and level headed at all times.

[lunaticheathen]

I try to stay calm and level headed at all times.

 

And calmly let everyone know I'm better than them because I'm up Jesus' holy shiney ass, and I get to be his special butt-plug, while the rest of you BURN IN HELL FOREVA! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

...But I'm calm about it, so na na na boo boo.

[Darklady]

Well its weird...cause I think if he spends sooooo much of his time trying to be against God and calling God a liar and evil (some of his lyrics do that) then its like he is admitting that he does believe in God. Yet on his info it says he is an atheist. It does not say "satanist" but again, the fact that he hates Jesus so much means he is anit-christ...which sort of means its from the enemy. If you are not for Jesus, you are pretty much for satan. Thats how I see it.

 

I have been on here for a little while, and a lot of people here have told me that I dont listen, and that I dont understand etc. Well now that I have my old friend in my life, its sort of an opportunity to understand where he is coming from and perhaps better understand atheists/ex-christians. I dont know. Hopefully something good will come out of this. I think God is doing something in my life, I want to learn, I dont want to judge and I dont want to reject him. Hes totally awesome..but I am sure along the way something must have happened to make him like this. I cant imagine that he has peace if all day he and his bandmates write songs about how awful God is. My heart goes out to him. I want to know what happened to him to make him that way, but I dont want to force it.

 

I kind of feel led to minister to ex-christians. I know you guys are like "what!" cause you say I suck at it, but maybe this is my chance to get better at it and try to hear his side of the story. I never said I was perfect, far from it..I want this to better me as a person.

 

this is why it is difficult to believe you - you say 'if you are not for jesus you are for satan' - are you fucking serious???? This is bullshit and to come on to a site that says ex christian and say this is picking a fight.

And then you say 'I kind of feel led to minister to ex-christians' - sorry if this upsets you - but don't fucking come here and minister to us - we don't need your crap.

[Crazy Donna]

Even Yalta commented that Darklady's comments were uncalled for...and Yalta is an ex-Christian, not a Christian.

 

There was no controversy in this thread until Darklady decided to pop in here and started being rude to me for no reason and telling me to leave the board, as though she owns or runs it.

 

And Crazy Donna it is difficult to sometimes have a conversation with you as you QUICKLY get upset and fly off the handle bars. Ive witnessed this with you. YOu get your emotions all in it, and you swtich from calm to fairly outraged in an instant. I appreciate your comments and insight and I think you have a lot to offer, but I never know what mood you are going to be in....calm or outraged. Thats fine, you can be who you are, I am just stating what I witnessed with talking to you. I try to stay calm and level headed at all times.

If I went onto a christian site and behaved like you have on this site, I would be banned. We have a legitimate right to be furious with you, because you are dishonest, and you come and invade this site with your nonsense and then wonder why we get upset.

 

Notice that I switch to 'fairly outraged' every time you say something insulting and offensive? Funny, that.

 

You can dish it out, Justyna, but you sure as hell can't take it.

[Guest Justyna]

Darklady,

 

You just proved to everyone on this board how rude you are and intrusive as well. I can do what I want..and I dont need you to tell me what I can and cant do. As long as I follow the rule (which I do) your opinion of what I ought to do means nothing to me. Good bye.

[lunaticheathen]

Darklady,

I can do what I want..and I dont need you to tell me what I can and cant do.

 

Are you 12?

[Guest Justyna]

Crazy Donna,

 

Ummm..what was I doing in this thread that made you turn all "crazy" on me? I was having a peacful conversation with many people and all was fine. Why do you get so offened so quickly and easily? You know how many times I have been called names on this board and did not get offended the way you get offended by me? A lot..is the answer. Learn some patience. And learn to speak normally instead of like an exploding volcano that errupts each time you read something you do not like.

 

Bottom line is I am not leaving..so if you and (darklady) cant handle that..I suggest the ignore button.

[Crazy Donna]

Crazy Donna,

 

Ummm..what was I doing in this thread that made you turn all "crazy" on me? I was having a peacful conversation with many people and all was fine. Why do you get so offened so quickly and easily? You know how many times I have been called names on this board and did not get offened the way you get offened by me? A lot..is the answer. Learn some patience. And learn to speak normally instead of like an exploding volcano that errupts each time you read something you do not like.

 

Bottom line is I am not leaving..so if you and (darklady) cant handle that..I suggest the ignore button.

You insulted atheists by calling them satanists. In doing so you showed (1) that you have no real interest in atheist's opinions or beliefs, because you'd rather just invent something and say 'that's what atheists are'. (2) there is no way that 'satanist', coming from you, could be a benign term, because for you, it's a loaded word. It carries a whole lot of values that atheists would find repulsive. No offence intended to any legitimate satanists reading this, I am referring to her understanding of the term.

 

You think I lack patience? You don't know me. I deal with people like you all the time. Remember where you are, Justyna. This is an ex christian forum, not your personal website. You provoke us, because it entertains you, and then accuse me of being impatient. I could insult you, Justyna, but you would have to get out the dictionary to understand what I was saying to you. I have been more than patient with you, and you just insult us and make unfounded generalisations. Then you obstinately refuse to accept that on some of these issues you might not be correct. Why should I be patient? I've been patient enough. I'm not your lap dog, Justyna. You want to post offensive remarks here, deal with the flack when it comes back. The flack will STOP when you start showing us some respect. You started this thread well, apart from the satanist remark. Suck it up and treat us like human beings.

 

You think I'm 'crazy'? That's politically correct coming from a supposed psychologist. Careful you don't try that during a session with a patient.

 

You're being inflammatory, we are reacting. You are the primary instigator. We are defending ourselves, in ex christian territory. If you don't want us to react, stop posting things that are obviously intended to produce those reactions. I honestly can't believe some of the rubbish you've written lately, with complete disregard for the feelings and opinions of people on this site. You'd have to be as thick as a brick not to realise the effect some of your remarks would have before you post them.

 

Learn some empathy. Without that, you'll just get a brick wall from us.

[Guest Justyna]

Crazy Donna,

 

I already explained to you how I was not trying to be insulting when I said that my friend became an atheist/satanist. To me the way I was taught..it means the same. The if you are not for God then you are against God. So that was not even an insult. And again I said my friend was this...since he sings in a band that is specifically against Christianity (aka anti-christ) Who is the anti-christ Donna? Satan is. So that is where that came frome. I was not calling all atheists satanists. I was refering to my friend. I was not even calling my friend that. I repedeatly said I dont know since I did not talk to him about religion yet. I just kind of guessed because his lyrics go directly against Jesus/God/Christianity. Most atheists dont go directly against Jesus per se...just sort of stay away from religion altogether.

 

How about you admit that you misunderstood me instead of calling me a liar etc. That is why I am called a liar. I get misunderstood and the person takes my words the worng way and then I become a liar. I will try to work on my communication skills.

 

Im not a Psycholgist yet, and you are not my patient. It holds no water. Calling you "crazy" is nothing since your screen name has that. Also "crazy" is a lot better than the things you called me in the past.

 

Again here we have a classic example of me being misunderstood and things been taken the wrong way. Perhaps its becaue we are online and not face to face. I will try to understand more and try less to be understood as that is the advice I was given from someone on this board (and ex-christian at that). Here is where I can practice this.