Raul Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 What about respect for others? Well,they need to be converted to her religion,because otherwise they're going to hell. She "knows" that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 People are going to hell each day. I know you guys dont believe that (well you did at one point) but in my mind they are (and in the Bible they are) I am more passionate about Christ now than I ever was in my entire life. Hes put a fire in me and a desire to serve Him and do His will. People are going to be doomed for all eternity. I get it, you guys dont believe that..but I do! I know its true...Hes made it clear to me, and His word is clear as well. Do I sometimes go over-board? Yes! Do I care? Oh yet very much so. People just dont get it that without Jesus, they will not make it. Lets look at it from Gods point of view now. Do you think He is mad at me now? Do you think He is disappointed in me now? I dont feel that at all. I tried, and I tried my best. I stood up for Jesus and His Word and I tried to do the right thing. I did. What is so wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 So you guys can hate me and my friend can hate me, and even my own family can hate me but I love ALL of you more than the people you hang out with who let you do what you want and dont point you to Jesus and ultimately are allowing you to be seperated from God for all eternity. I try my best not to let that happen, I try my best to help people see the Light. If they dont accept it, at least I can say I tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I was thinking of sending him an e-mail, but I dont think that will do any good. It will just make him more mad at me in the end. Then again I have nothing to lose by doing so. He would probably just delete it. Maybe its better that we werent talking for a year and then this happened. That would have been awful. At least it happened now, in the beginning. Easier to deal with than 12 months into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 So you guys can hate me and my friend can hate me, and even my own family can hate me but I love ALL of you more than the people you hang out with who let you do what you want and dont point you to Jesus and ultimately are allowing you to be seperated from God for all eternity. I try my best not to let that happen, I try my best to help people see the Light. If they dont accept it, at least I can say I tried. I don't hate you. I pity you that you have bought into this stuff that keeps you isolated from others and from reality and that causes you guilt and fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 People are going to hell each day. I know you guys dont believe that (well you did at one point) but in my mind they are (and in the Bible they are) I am more passionate about Christ now than I ever was in my entire life. Hes put a fire in me and a desire to serve Him and do His will. People are going to be doomed for all eternity. I get it, you guys dont believe that..but I do! I know its true...Hes made it clear to me, and His word is clear as well. Do I sometimes go over-board? Yes! Do I care? Oh yet very much so. People just dont get it that without Jesus, they will not make it. Lets look at it from Gods point of view now. Do you think He is mad at me now? Do you think He is disappointed in me now? I dont feel that at all. I tried, and I tried my best. I stood up for Jesus and His Word and I tried to do the right thing. I did. What is so wrong with that? First of all, you have no proof people are going to hell, or that hell even exists. Secondly, your behaviour towards your friend (and quite frequently towards us) is pretty horrible. With you, it's your way or the highway. You're totally incapable of seeing anything from anyone else's perspective. That's what wrecked your friendship. Take god out of the picture. If you were as dogmatic in your beliefs about a football team, and tried to impose them on others the way you have done so with your religious beliefs, you'd get much the same reaction. I used to be a christian, I know what it's like to think that other people are going to hell. But then I realised there was no hell. That was a big relief. I could explain to you how I came to that conclusion, but you don't want to hear it. But even if you are a christian, whether or not someone else is going to hell is actually NONE of your business. It is their own private business. It isn't anything for you to be involved with. If you want anyone to be your friend, you have to stop sabotaging the relationship with your religious beliefs. And you have to accept that your behaviour is not good behaviour. It's bad behaviour. It's disrespectful to others to treat them the way you have (especially your friend, he must feel dreadful). If you really loved your friend, you'd try to see it from his point of view. Honestly. I think if there was a god (I don't, but I can think hypothetically) he would be ashamed of your actions. You know why? You were not honest with your friend. You were deceitful, and you were not up front with him. You made assumptions about him that were unfounded. You treated him like a project, not a person. You behaved exactly how a christian is NOT supposed to behave, and now you're saying "but I did it for god, so I'm still okay with god!" There are better ways to be a christian, Justyna. You need to learn some empathy for others, not just decide they must feel X because you are always right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Justyna, I do not feel loved by you and I'm not particularly interested in your self-centered idea of 'love,' anyway. More importantly, I do not want to become like you. As I see it, the combination of religious delusion, inability to confront your own bad behaviour, inability to have empathy for others' points of view and various Family of Origin issues have wreaked havoc with your life. You really don't have anything that we want, and we have no more to offer you. Perhaps you should leave this forum for a while and try to digest everything we've said to you tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I really cant control it to be honest. Its just in me, all inside me. Before my "de-conversion" I was on fire for God but I didnt care too much about people's souls. I would have been theeeeeeeeee last Christian to tell someone that they need to seek God. After I went through my crisis of faith, it changed me. God changed me. He showed me that even I, who was sooo dedicated to Him my whole life could backslide and even doubt Him and His ways. It was a wake up call for me. Ive been more determined now. Hes put that in me....Hes made me this way. I cant seperarte me and my God. He lives inside me. I cant just put Christianity on the back burner as someone suggested. It just doesnt work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 So you guys can hate me and my friend can hate me, and even my own family can hate me but I love ALL of you more than the people you hang out with who let you do what you want and dont point you to Jesus and ultimately are allowing you to be seperated from God for all eternity. I don't hate you, Justyna - I love you. And I do what I want, nobody influences me to do anything. This 'I love you more' is just silly, and a product of the emotional state you're in right now. I feel very sad for you right now because you're hurting so much, and I apologize for the degree to which I may have contributed to your hurt. But, honestly, I've heard your message, lived it myself once upon a time, and don't need to hear it anymore - if that's the only reason I'm of any interest to you then you can go your way in peace, and I truly hope in happiness and good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 The fire always burns out after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 So you guys can hate me and my friend can hate me, and even my own family can hate me but I love ALL of you more than the people you hang out with who let you do what you want and dont point you to Jesus and ultimately are allowing you to be seperated from God for all eternity. I try my best not to let that happen, I try my best to help people see the Light. If they dont accept it, at least I can say I tried. I don't hate you, I just think you're immature. I think there is hope for you, which is why I blow up when you say something that is offensive or otherwise wrong. Sure, I get angry, but I try to give you feedback. You come here to learn about us. I already know about your side of the god argument. I've been there. You're trying to apply a very narrow worldview to a very complex world. You're trying to make the world fit a black and white christian ideology, and i'm giving you the heads up that it won't work. Something's got to change. Either the world (unlikely) or your perspective of it. And you can be more openminded and accepting of people without renouncing christianity. Christians do it all the time. If you come here trying to convert me to christianity, that isn't love. Not really. Because if you really came here with love in your heart, it wouldn't matter WHAT I believe, you'd still want want my friendship. What I believe wouldn't matter. You'd be able to be friends with me and let me make my own decisions, and it would be okay by you. Do you see how there is a difference? I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm trying to explain to you that the love you are expressing for us is conditional. It is conditional on whether or not we are christians or not. If people are going to convert, Justyna, it will be because they want to, not because of anything you do. In fact, by treating people the way you have treated your friend, and us, you have only alienated people, not drawn them closer to your point of view. You need to see things from other people's points of view. You need to admit that your friend is not your friend anymore because of your actions, not because of your christianity. If you don't, you're just making him a characature, not seeing him for the real person he is, with real feelings and real opinions. You try too hard. You should just let people be people and advertise your religious beliefs by being a great person, not by regarding anyone who is not a christian as an enemy of god. People are people, and their beliefs are their own. You can't influence them, so don't try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I was thinking of sending him an e-mail, but I dont think that will do any good. It will just make him more mad at me in the end. Then again I have nothing to lose by doing so. He would probably just delete it. Maybe its better that we werent talking for a year and then this happened. That would have been awful. At least it happened now, in the beginning. Easier to deal with than 12 months into it. If you do, you are welocme to run it past me before youhit 'send' and I'll tell you honestly if there is anything you need to change that might offend him. I mean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 People dont want the hear the truth..that what they are doing is sin, that they will be sepearted from God forever....that sin keeps us from Him, that God wants all of us etc. They dont like that. Its much easier and more convinient to find a way of thinking (a theory or philosophy) that lets you do what you want to do instead of what God says. We like that...we like it when we can do waht we want, and we hate it when someone tells us not to do something. Ministry is hard work..I know I am called to it, and its very draining and exhausting...not to mention you dont get paid for it..ahah. You get people calling you names, calling you crazy, telling you to buzz off. But surely the present troubles are not worth the glory that will be revealed..and this too shall pass. Its only for a moment then the moment is gone. I dont think I am done with the messageboard..feel like I am suppose to be here for some reason...but I think I am done with this topic and this thread. Its pretty much dead if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Thanks Donna, I dont think I am going to send the e-mail. Thought about it, but its too late. If what you guys say is true and he doesnt just hate God, but rather hates me.....then I dont know which is worse really. I dont have a chance. If he hates me, then nothing I do now will change that. (At least God loves me <---Yeah I am trying to make myself feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Sometimes I think it would be easier to minister to people who were never Christians in the first place..you know a nice clean slate. But actually I feel led to talk to ex-Christians....just my luck! Thanks God. (no offense to you guys, but you guys are a tough bunch and you guys give me a hard time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I don't hate you,Justyna. I just wish people'd stop going to hell every day in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Raul...this is the vessel that God made me to be. A believer. I cant stop believing it. I tried, I tried to run from it, and He never let me go. Its like this is what I am suppose to be and do with my life. I really dont get a say in it....(but its okay cause I do love God a whole whole lot) Its just everything else that is hard and difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 People dont want the hear the truth..that what they are doing is sin, that they will be sepearted from God forever....that sin keeps us from Him, that God wants all of us etc. They dont like that. Its much easier and more convinient to find a way of thinking (a theory or philosophy) that lets you do what you want to do instead of what God says. We like that...we like it when we can do waht we want, and we hate it when someone tells us not to do something. Ministry is hard work..I know I am called to it, and its very draining and exhausting...not to mention you dont get paid for it..ahah. You get people calling you names, calling you crazy, telling you to buzz off. But surely the present troubles are not worth the glory that will be revealed..and this too shall pass. Its only for a moment then the moment is gone. I dont think I am done with the messageboard..feel like I am suppose to be here for some reason...but I think I am done with this topic and this thread. Its pretty much dead if you ask me. Justyna, for us, it isn't 'the Truth', it's just an opinion. An opinion that we once believed, but now don't believe, because we've seen that it's inherently flawed and does not match up to reality. Nobody here thinks you're peddling the truth. You need to see it from our point of view, not keep harping on about how we're intent on sinning and we want to be separated from god. You aren't listening to anything we've said, you're just making up what you think our opinions and beliefs are. If you don't learn some people skills, including the ability to relate to people and actually hear and accept their opinions and beliefs, not just believe what you want to believe about them, then you're going to be an epic failure as a missionary and an epic failure as a human being. This is a life skill you should have learned in high school -- the ability to accept people despite their differences, and the ability to see things from their point of view. That last one would have saved you a world of hurt if you had enough empathy to put yourselves in our shoes (or the shoes of your friend) before you said some of the things you said. We don't think god is real or christianity is real. Nothing you can do will change our minds. You need to accept that and move beyond it. We are not your pet project either. When you put that aside, then you'll be able to have relationships with other people that might have some chance of success. You need to accept us as people, not as projects for you to save. Just let people be people, and don't try to force your beliefs on them. To do otherwise is pretty rotten, and obviously doesn't work, as today's experience has demonstrated. We don't think you have the truth. Accept that, and move beyond it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I just feel like I need to keep going. One was lost, but all is not lost. I still exchange messages with that one person who wrote me from here who is on the fence about God and is asking me questions. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 you guys are a tough bunch and you guys give me a hard time That's probably because we know pretty well exactly how implausible and self-contradictionary your religion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I try to balance my time between here and actual christian sites and of course my own church. I cant be on here for too long otherwise I will go craaaazy...lol. I need to be around my "own kind" for lack of a better word and recharge and refuel in order to keep going. Today was draining...not what I hoped for or ever expected to happen. And wow I need to go to bed, cause I have church tomorrow morning. YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 At least one thing is for certain...you guys now know that I am a real person. Thats one good thing that came out of all this. Perhaps your doubts will subside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Sometimes I think it would be easier to minister to people who were never Christians in the first place..you know a nice clean slate. But actually I feel led to talk to ex-Christians....just my luck! Thanks God. (no offense to you guys, but you guys are a tough bunch and you guys give me a hard time). lol. Yeah, much easier to convert the ignorant than those who have already "been there, done that" and know that it's not all it's cracked up to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I need to be around my "own kind" for lack of a better word and recharge and refuel in order to keep going. Yup,group delusions don't last outside the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 At least one thing is for certain...you guys now know that I am a real person. Thats one good thing that came out of all this. Perhaps your doubts will subside. yeah, well I think you're proved that you're a genuine Christian (as opposed to just pretending to be one). Hopefully you can somehow manage to learn to see things from our perspective. Until you can do that, then you you're still not gonna get much in the way of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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