Ex Christians And Social Conscience.

[Mriana]

No. The cake is a lie.

 

If I am understanding you correctly, yes. Very few here have the maturity to accept opposing positions. Hell, why would we want to be friends.

At least my slow-clap processor still works...

 

Yes, and you figure things out a lot faster too, as well as make sense, even with humour.

 

 

 

[Mriana]

Much safer.

Ye of little faith. Just saying.

 

Yeah, well... your avatar is much cuter than End's.

 

 

 

[Mriana]

Much safer.

Ye of little faith. Just saying.

 

In what?

 

 

 

[oddbird1963]

 

Look OB, y'all got people here calling people like me retarded and also flat denying credibility when they themselves don't even have the fundamental message of the Bible down. Nor are they willing to sacrifice their pride to even listen to opposing views in real dialogue. I am difficult to understand. AM is as well, but because he is not a Christian, his is accepted as "brilliance".

 

I don't take your words as an attack. But you take Mriana. She is holding me to essentially the OT law....write to this standard or "die", in her current stage of maturity instead of me making allowances for my shortcomings, my "sins", i. e. the NT covenant. I do the same. But the kicker is, instead of even ATTEMPTING that, she dismisses me as whatever the adjective of the day is under the ilk that she understands what Christianity IS and ISN'T!! By FUCKING ARROGANT PERSONAL CHOICE no less.

 

 

1. Who called you retarded? Not me. I don't recall reading those words. Could you be exaggerating out of anger or hurt?

 

2. Credibility in regards to what? If it is your position as an analyst, I can understand why that would be frustrating for you. Granted that you are a chemical analyst in the industry, it hasn't seemed to assist you in hermeneutics, the practice of interpreting texts, in this case the Bible. It's this disconnect between the rigors of scientific analysis and what appears to be a flight of ideas approach to the Bible and theology that has some people scratching their heads.

 

3. I don't know in what ways the long-time posters to this site have failed to "have the fundamental message of the Bible down." Most seem to have quite a good grasp of at least one tradition of fundamentalist or conservative evangelical culture. And that's the thing. Much of what you propound is so divorced from any known tradition of Christianity that it needs much filling in of the gaps into a more coherent explanation. There is no similar tradition "like unto it" to draw upon and provide a context. I think this uniqueness comes from an ad hoc, carried along by imagination approach to looking at Christian scripture. But you can show me to be mistaken by simply writing in a more coherent, complete manner.

 

4. If you think the people on this site should look to you for some correct understanding of what Christianity is, I think you are mistaken in that attitude. People here know quite accurately what Christianity and the Bible is all about. If you disagree, what is one important truth you think we ex-christians are misunderstanding?

[hereticzero]

I don't try to deconvert others from whatever their favorite cult affiliation may be. It's a free world. People can be as delusional as they choose. I am only interested in my own sanity. I am free because I choose to be free. It comes down to the old cliche, 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.' Why? Because you have to make it thirsty first. If a Christian has no thirst or desire to leave his church, he won't no matter how much common sense and facts you throw in his face. The will power to deconvert only comes after the light bulb turns itself on in someone's head that what they have been hearing and have been taught is just mythological BS. If they never receive that 'gift of discernment,' then they will never leave their favorite cult. I don't argue too much with believers but I don't back down if they start slinging accusations at me about my character because I am no longer a believer. I also don't tolerate door bangers either. They leave me alone, I leave them alone. If their beliefs injure someone like a child, then it is between them and the legal system and still not my business. If I can prevent a child from physical harm I will step up but when it comes to interfering in a family because they may teach their crap to their children, that is something a family has the right to, worship together, just like my family has the right not to worship at all.

[Guest end3]

1. Who called you retarded? Not me. I don't recall reading those words. Could you be exaggerating out of anger or hurt?

No, that would be Rank Stranger. I will go cut and paste if you need proof.

 

2. Credibility in regards to what? If it is your position as an analyst, I can understand why that would be frustrating for you. Granted that you are a chemical analyst in the industry, it hasn't seemed to assist you in hermeneutics, the practice of interpreting texts, in this case the Bible. It's this disconnect between the rigors of scientific analysis and what appears to be a flight of ideas approach to the Bible and theology that has some people scratching their heads.

 

Let's take my latest example OB, as you seem rational. The CERN experiments proposed that neutrinos travel faster than light. It's my understanding that these particles are massless and smaller than say electrons and neutrons. I may be wrong. Regardless, with this information, there is new knowledge of smaller stuff. And maybe in 100 years, we will discover even smaller stuff than neutrinos. I don't know. But isn't it logical that there could be smaller and smaller stuff to an infinite point? And the same on an infinitely large scale. So would it not be logical to assume the beginning (infinitely small) as the Biblical language Alpha? And the infinitely large "Omega". Is there a more accepted reasoning for this phrase? And if so, what verifies it as the absolute truth? What about the bible story where the all heard "in their own language"? Is that discussion settled now? So what if God is a personal God that speaks to each one as needed? You know, Christianity DOES tout their God as being "personal". I was just asking Florduh why is it unreasonable to not assume smaller particles and larger ones......and do we as humans really know what that interface holds. And for some reason, Rank interjects that I am retarded. And then Mriana jumps in with her illiterate self and does the Ex-Christian Lion's Den pile-on. For what good reason? Superior moral stance? Jesus folks.

 

3. I don't know in what ways the long-time posters to this site have failed to "have the fundamental message of the Bible down." Most seem to have quite a good grasp of at least one tradition of fundamentalist or conservative evangelical culture. And that's the thing. Much of what you propound is so divorced from any known tradition of Christianity that it needs much filling in of the gaps into a more coherent explanation. There is no similar tradition "like unto it" to draw upon and provide a context. I think this uniqueness comes from an ad hoc, carried along by imagination approach to looking at Christian scripture. But you can show me to be mistaken by simply writing in a more coherent, complete manner.

 

Ask her to give you the "easy" difference between the OT law an NT covenant. Just any random example that she might give would give me some idea that she even has a glimpse of what she is denouncing.

She can't even recognize it in her own actions, yet condescendingly rejects it.

 

4. If you think the people on this site should look to you for some correct understanding of what Christianity is, I think you are mistaken in that attitude. People here know quite accurately what Christianity and the Bible is all about. If you disagree, what is one important truth you think we ex-christians are misunderstanding?

 

I used to have motives that I wasn't aware of for coming here years ago. Today, I come here for the humor and the intelligent people and their ideas.....to hopefully exchange ideas that might lead to better understanding. There ARE some of those people here. And then there are some fundamental atheist types that are as bad as fundamental Christians. It it entirely my fault to let myself get sucked into the immaturity that is so prevalent with fundamentalism. I should well know better at this point.

[Guest end3]

Why can't I come here and be accepted as a human with a desire to explore my understanding without being chewed on. Isn't that persecution was what the majority of you were/are desparately trying to escape from???? And then to justify some sub-forum like the Lion's Den as acceptable???? Really??

 

I mean Jesus, either nix Christians all together or be mature enough to practice what you preach.

[Mriana]

And then Mriana jumps in with her illiterate self and does the Ex-Christian Lion's Den pile-on. For what good reason? Superior moral stance? Jesus folks.

 

I'm hardly illiterate. I have more knowledge about religion and mythology than you seem to have.

 

Why can't I come here and be accepted as a human with a desire to explore my understanding without being chewed on. Isn't that persecution was what the majority of you were/are desparately trying to escape from???? And then to justify some sub-forum like the Lion's Den as acceptable???? Really??

 

I mean Jesus, either nix Christians all together or be mature enough to practice what you preach.

 

I didn't create the forum and for the record, I was already in this conversation before you started with the name calling. I jumped in on that only because I did like seeing Rank being called such abusive names. There is an old saying that goes something like this... If you can't take it, don't dish it out. However, I never called any of the names that you called Rank. I only said that your behaviour causes your fingers to point back at you and that you were not following the rules of conduct that I know to be Xian. Except for quoting, so that others know what I'm talking about, when did I call someone "retarded" or an abusive four-letter word? Not once, that I can recall in this thread or any other thread... well, I may have one time in another thread, but that was to a long standing member, but that dealt with a totally different subject.

[oddbird1963]

No, that would be Rank Stranger. I will go cut and paste if you need proof.

No need. I can go back and find it later.

 

 

I only have time for one large point. I may respond to the others later.

 

Let's take my latest example OB, as you seem rational. The CERN experiments proposed that neutrinos travel faster than light. It's my understanding that these particles are massless and smaller than say electrons and neutrons. I may be wrong. Regardless, with this information, there is new knowledge of smaller stuff. And maybe in 100 years, we will discover even smaller stuff than neutrinos. I don't know. But isn't it logical that there could be smaller and smaller stuff to an infinite point? And the same on an infinitely large scale. So would it not be logical to assume the beginning (infinitely small) as the Biblical language Alpha? And the infinitely large "Omega". Is there a more accepted reasoning for this phrase? And if so, what verifies it as the absolute truth? What about the bible story where the all heard "in their own language"? Is that discussion settled now? So what if God is a personal God that speaks to each one as needed? You know, Christianity DOES tout their God as being "personal". I was just asking Florduh why is it unreasonable to not assume smaller particles and larger ones......and do we as humans really know what that interface holds. And for some reason, Rank interjects that I am retarded. And then Mriana jumps in with her illiterate self and does the Ex-Christian Lion's Den pile-on. For what good reason? Superior moral stance? Jesus folks.

 

That is a good example. It is unclear how you get from CERN to the book of Revelation, but the way you use the phrase "Alpha and Omega" is valid if you allow for a creative, imaginative approach. If you use the approach, "Let X = this, and Let Y = that, then the following is neat isn't it?" then saying "Let Alpha mean "infinitely small" and Omega mean infinitely big then wouldn't it be neat if that corresponds to infinitely small particles and infinitely large stuff in the universe?" That seems to be your approach to reading the bible - imagine a way that two concepts can be related and , voila, it must be true.

 

However, a reading of the text (Rev. 1:8, 21:6 and 22:13) that uses the Alpha / Omega language in no way suggests the idea of infinitely small or infinitely large. It suggests the beginning of history and the end of this present world. The scriptures explain the concept and I know of nobody who makes the case that the language suggests the infinitely small to the infinitely large.

 

Most texts are interpreted this way: 1) what does the text itself say? 2) What do (or did) those words mean in the culture in which they were written? 3) What can I now conclude those words mean? If you are well grounded in the understanding of what the text says, you are on much more solid ground to apply its meaning to other things.

 

Your approach seems more like the creative/imaginative approach. The beliefs are self contained but with little verisimilitude to the text from which you grab isolated phrases and concepts, not to mention the science to which you try to connect it.

 

I just don't consider the creative/imaginative approach a useful way to draw conclusions about reality unless those dreamed up concepts can be submitted to empirical confirmation. Without that they are preferences more than anything.

 

I don't say that the established interpretation of "Alpha and Omega" is the absolute truth. I just say, "That's what the text refers to." My question is, given what the text itself says about the meaning alpha and omega, how do you support the claim that it means infinitely small and infinitely large?

 

You can make the argument that God plants these ideas and interpretations in your head independent of the scripture he supposedly gave to the world. But that is totally subjective on your part and provides nothing useful for anyone else, unless they happen to think it is a good idea that they want to adopt - simply because they want to and not because there's a good reason to.

[RankStranger]

Why can't I come here and be accepted as a human with a desire to explore my understanding without being chewed on. Isn't that persecution was what the majority of you were/are desparately trying to escape from???? And then to justify some sub-forum like the Lion's Den as acceptable???? Really??

 

I mean Jesus, either nix Christians all together or be mature enough to practice what you preach.

 

End, I'm not going to apologize for calling you a retard- that would be insincere. And I'll likely call you that and worse next time I'm in a foul mood. But after reading this thread, I think maybe I misjudged you. Maybe there IS some spark of intelligence buried beneath the dyslexia, lazy spelling, and ridiculous leaps of 'logic'. Of course, that doesn't do much for me if I can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say.

 

But just out of curiosity- why are YOU here?

 

We Exchristians generally come to the Lions Den to hate on christians, vent our frustrations, and berate any who are arrogant or dumb enough to hang around in this section of the forum. I don't spend a whole lot of time debating christians, myself, for a couple of reasons: The issue is pretty well settled in my mind (christianity is a bunch of hocus-pocus bullshit), and I'm not particularly angry at christians these days (unless their mental illness directly affects my life). But it is nice to have this section for trolling purposes- which is something I try to avoid elsewhere on the site.

 

Now I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't be here- it's none of my concern. Actually, I'm glad you're here- IMO any discussion forum can degenerate into an echo-chamber without opposing viewpoints. But I just wonder what YOU are getting out of this exchange other than indigestion.

[Guest end3]

End, I'm not going to apologize for calling you a retard- that would be insincere. And I'll likely call you that and worse next time I'm in a foul mood. But after reading this thread, I think maybe I misjudged you. Maybe there IS some spark of intelligence buried beneath the dyslexia, lazy spelling, and ridiculous leaps of 'logic'. Of course, that doesn't do much for me if I can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say.

 

I wouldn't expect less from the head of posting purity.

 

But just out of curiosity- why are YOU here?

Most likely I originally came here by substituting you heathens for the anger I had with the my father. He's a heathen as well. Once I figured all that out, the the anger is subsiding. Now I come her for the philisophical discussions and the sport of it. It's hard to find any philisophical presence in West Texas.

 

But I just wonder what YOU are getting out of this exchange other than indigestion.

 

For some fucking inane reason, I thought if I repeated myself enough, it would penetrate Mriana's armor of insanity. I think it now much stronger than the armor of God....

[oddbird1963]

. . . I thought if I repeated myself enough, it would penetrate Mriana's armor of insanity. I think it now much stronger than the armor of God....

 

Just one point of order here. Since god doesn't exist , neither does the armor of god. Therefore even aluminum foil is stronger than the armor of god.

[Guest end3]

You can make the argument that God plants these ideas and interpretations in your head independent of the scripture he supposedly gave to the world. But that is totally subjective on your part and provides nothing useful for anyone else, unless they happen to think it is a good idea that they want to adopt - simply because they want to and not because there's a good reason to.

 

My "gift" is useful to my occupation. The instruments I work with have "behavior" patterns if you will. Recognizing these makes me a better analyst as well as a better troubleshooter when the break down.

 

Believe it or not, not many folks recognize and connect similar patterns. I know, this should be obvious through this discussion.

 

You make make light, but I have always thought it was a Holy Spirit thing....seeing connections, types, etc...

[Mriana]

For some fucking inane reason, I thought if I repeated myself enough, it would penetrate Mriana's armor of insanity. I think it now much stronger than the armor of God....

 

Oh I don't think it was just me you were trying to tick off in this forum and, as I said before, I wouldn't be pointing fingers. IMHO, I think you were trying to tick off all of us and not just me. I have a feeling you think I'm an easy target, but that target isn't so easy since I refuse to stoop to such a level where I'm doing the same sort of name calling. That is not insanity. That is treating someone like a human being, even if they don't believe what the person is saying about themselves or their beliefs.

[oddbird1963]

You can make the argument that God plants these ideas and interpretations in your head independent of the scripture he supposedly gave to the world. But that is totally subjective on your part and provides nothing useful for anyone else, unless they happen to think it is a good idea that they want to adopt - simply because they want to and not because there's a good reason to.

 

My "gift" is useful to my occupation. The instruments I work with have "behavior" patterns if you will. Recognizing these makes me a better analyst as well as a better troubleshooter when the break down.

 

Believe it or not, not many folks recognize and connect similar patterns. I know, this should be obvious through this discussion.

 

You make make light, but I have always thought it was a Holy Spirit thing....seeing connections, types, etc...

 

Then if the connection is not imaginary or wishful thinking, you should be able to support the assertion that alpha means infinitely small and omega means infinitely large in the context of Revelation.

 

Maybe you were mistaken that it was a Holy Spirit thing, at least in the case of Alpha/omega. Otherwise you have the holy spirit contradicting the very verses he supposedly wrote via john.

[RankStranger]

End, I'm not going to apologize for calling you a retard- that would be insincere. And I'll likely call you that and worse next time I'm in a foul mood. But after reading this thread, I think maybe I misjudged you. Maybe there IS some spark of intelligence buried beneath the dyslexia, lazy spelling, and ridiculous leaps of 'logic'. Of course, that doesn't do much for me if I can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say.

 

I wouldn't expect less from the head of posting purity.

 

Didn't you hear? I officially resigned a couple days ago. No shit.

 

It goes back to that 'echo-chamber' thing. Political threads are pretty lame when there's no opposition. Thankfully our Prodigal Troll, Burnedout, has returned- so now we can resume trading abuse. If you'd work on this 'making sense' thing a bit, you'd be welcome to join in. Snakefoot got bored with us... Legion flaked out or something... Nightflight and Vix wandered off a long time ago... there's a real lack of conservatards around here.

 

I'd suggest that you start with a canned-Rand argument or maybe a Limbaugh-style caricature. If you do well, I may ask you back for a second interview.

 

 

But just out of curiosity- why are YOU here?

Most likely I originally came here by substituting you heathens for the anger I had with the my father. He's a heathen as well. Once I figured all that out, the the anger is subsiding. Now I come her for the philisophical discussions and the sport of it. It's hard to find any philisophical presence in West Texas.

 

I can relate the that latter point. I lived in Western Kansas for a while, and could have said much the same thing. Don't get me wrong- there are far worse places. But I can only take so much discussion about farming and football.

 

As for your dad- that's kinda interesting. All I can say is that assholes come in all flavors. Was he exchristian/atheist like people around here- or some other stripe of heathen?

 

 

But I just wonder what YOU are getting out of this exchange other than indigestion.

 

For some fucking inane reason, I thought if I repeated myself enough, it would penetrate Mriana's armor of insanity. I think it now much stronger than the armor of God....

 

Good luck with that. There are some folks that it's best not to engage.

[bornagainathiest]

 

So the respect you were showing me before in your posts was a lie?

 

Fyi End.

 

Lion's Den Rules

Forum Rules

 

Attention "True Christians™" and former Christians.

 

You appear to be neither.

 

This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated.

 

You were tolerated (respectfully) by me until you persisted in ignoring my polite and courteous requests for answers to my reasonable and pertinent questions. Once it became clear (by consistently ignoring my respectful requests) you were not treating ME with respect, my requirement to be respectful to you was nullified by your actions. Or should I say in-actions. You can't have it both ways End - demanding respect but giving none back. That kind of thinking smacks of selfish, juvenille, adolescent immaturity. Am I getting warm yet?

 

Anyway, that's HOW and WHEN you became my MEAT!

 

Aggressive evangelism is permitted in this section, but aggressive evangelists should be ready to be met by equally aggressive resistance.

 

An occasionally heated response is allowed and sometimes even encouraged. However, all posters to the Lion's Den are still expected to adhere the general rules of decorum as delineated in the Forum Guidelines. In other words, conversations in the Lion's Den are intended to be permissively unrestrained without devolving into repetitious verbal abuse. Those who are identified as repeatedly abusive -- in this section or any section of this website -- may be suspended or banned from posting without notice.

 

Please note, "Mr. Authentic Christian Believer", that you are the one who has descended into name-calling, foul language and verbal abuse - not me.

How very Christ-like of you.

Born-Again and regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

I don't think so.

 

So who's doing the lying here?

 

Not me.

I haven't misrepresented myself for four+ years, passing myself off as a Christian and showing just how un-Christian I am with my immature behavior, my lack of Biblical knowledge and my lack of spiritual fruit.

 

Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate.

 

For more orderly and serious debate, go to the "Colosseum."

 

For controlled formal debate, go to the "Arena."

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Care to fess up to what you really are, End?

 

BAA.

[Guest end3]

Care to fess up to what you really are, End?

 

The Walrus of course.....koo koo ka choo.

[Mriana]

 

So the respect you were showing me before in your posts was a lie?

 

Fyi End.

 

Lion's Den Rules

Forum Rules

 

Attention "True Christians™" and former Christians.

 

You appear to be neither.

 

This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated.

 

You were tolerated (respectfully) by me until you persisted in ignoring my polite and courteous requests for answers to my reasonable and pertinent questions. Once it became clear (by consistently ignoring my respectful requests) you were not treating ME with respect, my requirement to be respectful to you was nullified by your actions. Or should I say in-actions. You can't have it both ways End - demanding respect but giving none back. That kind of thinking smacks of selfish, juvenille, adolescent immaturity. Am I getting warm yet?

 

Anyway, that's HOW and WHEN you became my MEAT!

 

Aggressive evangelism is permitted in this section, but aggressive evangelists should be ready to be met by equally aggressive resistance.

 

An occasionally heated response is allowed and sometimes even encouraged. However, all posters to the Lion's Den are still expected to adhere the general rules of decorum as delineated in the Forum Guidelines. In other words, conversations in the Lion's Den are intended to be permissively unrestrained without devolving into repetitious verbal abuse. Those who are identified as repeatedly abusive -- in this section or any section of this website -- may be suspended or banned from posting without notice.

 

Please note, "Mr. Authentic Christian Believer", that you are the one who has descended into name-calling, foul language and verbal abuse - not me.

How very Christ-like of you.

Born-Again and regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

I don't think so.

 

So who's doing the lying here?

 

Not me.

I haven't misrepresented myself for four+ years, passing myself off as a Christian and showing just how un-Christian I am with my immature behavior, my lack of Biblical knowledge and my lack of spiritual fruit.

 

Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate.

 

For more orderly and serious debate, go to the "Colosseum."

 

For controlled formal debate, go to the "Arena."

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Care to fess up to what you really are, End?

 

BAA.

 

Second it. When I first met End after one of us joined (don't care who joined first), I tried to be nice and polite, but he leaves little room for that, esp when he becomes condescending, hostile, and starts in with the name calling. Why bother if he's not going to return it or even answer questions. Ironically, despite the rules you just quoted, he's still here, even after all his verbal abuse of others.

[Guest end3]

Second it. When I first met End after one of us joined (don't care who joined first), I tried to be nice and polite, but he leaves little room for that, esp when he becomes condescending, hostile, and starts in with the name calling. Why bother if he's not going to return it or even answer questions. Ironically, despite the rules you just quoted, he's still here, even after all his verbal abuse of others.

 

It's my feeling Mriana that after a few confrontations over the years, you and I are not going to reach an meaningful accord. If I were to respond to your questions, you wouldn't consider my response. If I were to apologize, you wouldn't accept. You don't appeart to me, to be in a place where you are able to allow a Christian opinion. And btw, every detail I gave you about my life is true. I could email you a copy of my diploma or we could discuss Inductively Coupled Plasma techniques if you so desire.

[bornagainathiest]

I wonder if the Mods would let me have the words, "Authentic Christian Believer" added to my profile?

Ok, I'm an Ex-Christian and an Athiest, but given these minor details, I reckon I'm still way more of an "Authentic Christian Believer" than he is.

 

So how about it Nivek, Ouroboros, et al?

 

If End can be one, just because he says he is, can I be one too?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Guest end3]

I wonder if the Mods would let me have the words, "Authentic Christian Believer" added to my profile?

Ok, I'm an Ex-Christian and an Athiest, but given these minor details, I reckon I'm still way more of an "Authentic Christian Believer" than he is.

 

So how about it Nivek, Ouroboros, et al?

 

If End can be one, just because he says he is, can I be one too?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Finally, after four year of evangelizing, we have someone who wants to rejoin the fold. Congratulations brother!!

[Deva]

Let me just say that this has been a rather sprightly thread! How did I miss it?

[Greatest I am]

Zinnia is cool! How could anyone have a prejudice against her? Ok so she has a knot in her throat, among other things that we won't mention, but she's still cool. However, she needs to smile more.

 

Perhaps some Christian will answer that question. Mind you, no one has for some time. Except of course, --------

 

God says so.

 

Regards

DL

[florduh]

How did I miss it?

Distracted by the lizards perhaps?