Losing My Raison D'etre

[Denyoz]

Hi Lyall,

 

The title of this thread sums up the depth of your agony: Losing My Raison D'être. This is serious stuff and it's possible you might need the help of a professional, like I did. I suggest you read about Depression and it's symptoms and if you feel it might help, don't hesitate to consult with a psychiatrist.

 

When I realized that God didn't exist, I also lost my raison d'être, the reason for my own existence, since it was so wrapped around God. You write "I am losing everything as well as a substantial number of marbles." I think I know what you are talking about. I had trained my brain so well to think like God, that when God left, my ability to think left with it. I became unable to process my own thoughts and I couldn't understand the logic behind what was going on around me.

 

I am glad you found this site, I see that it is already helping you. If you need to talk about more personal stuff but are afraid to reveal you identity, you can private message me. I'm your age and I don't go out much

[Positivist]

I had trained my brain so well to think like God, that when God left, my ability to think left with it. I became unable to process my own thoughts and I couldn't understand the logic behind what was going on around me.

Me too Denyoz! I had to re-learn how to think logically, starting with the evidence, instead of starting with my conclusion and working my way backwards with Bible verses that didn't make sense.

 

Well, Jesus was right about this: The truth does set us free! Who knew?

[2Honest]

Welcome, Lyall. Thanks for sharing what you are going through. I related to so much of what you wrote...the ability to "prophesy" and know things about others, feel people's pain, etc. I've had the same experiences as a Christian (and can still do those things as an unbeliever if I choose to). I am also ill and have been for many years. Though not as severely ill as your wife, I'm sure. But that's what finally drove me to the end of my Christianity. I just couldn't deal with fact that god was ignoring my cries for help. If you do a search for "2Honest" you can read my posts about that. I also have a couple of blog posts about it.

 

I really feel for your wife, I can only imagine what she must be going through. It is devastating to be sick for so long and trying to cling to your faith. For a long time I thought God was all that was keeping me going, too. Then I realized it was my belief in him that was making everything so much more difficult to bear. That being said, I know telling her how you're feeling probably isn't the best thing for her. You are in a very tough situation. I hope you can stick around here for awhile, it really does help. I hope you can find some peace and comfort in the midst of of your troubles. And I can say that there IS hope and light at the end of that dark tunnel of confusion.

 

Peace to you,

2Honest

[lyall]

Thank you to everyone for your warm welcomes and positive advice. It is a breath of fresh air to hear people say "its ok to feel that way" instead of "its all your fault - you have the wrong attitude".

 

I have read quite a bit of stuff on here and most of it resonates deeply. One thing that surprised me was the frequency with which you guys would find "middle class" churches - even in the uk. I thought it was just my bad luck (or god testing me) that I would always seem to wind up in one of these churches and be treated as an outsider for pretty much the whole of my time there. Seemed like if I was not a medical professional or a computer programmer or a surveyor I would not be admitted to the sacred clique !

 

Even being a musician and a singer did not help because the worship team in most of those churches was a strictly "closed shop". I would normally have to wait until most of the team left or got married and left or got pregnant and left before they would announce that they were desperate for someone to fill the gap and then it would be a case of what to sing on sunday and my suggestions not even being acknowledged. It wasnt until i was left running the team that I could ever make a choice and then sometimes I would be able to use my own songs or musical arrangements but it seemed to take forever. Of course I always thought god was teaching me patience. Then soon after getting established I would leave that church to join another and the whole damn mess would begin over again.

 

All that hype about making the visitor welcome was virtually non existent. It seemed that only marginalised people had time for other marginalised people thus strictly splitting the church down the middle with only the pastor as a bridge between the two.

 

My wife would tell me that it was my imagination - that we were all one body - that she found the women mostly accommodating but I had to remind her that motherhood was the main common denominator which brought them together plus the fact that with one accord they would always moan that they were more persistent in praying than any of their husbands !

 

My wife, being so thoroughly fundie, cannot see people for what they are but only that because they happen to be in church they must be good people underneath and of course god loves all that even when they are deliberately spiteful, jealous, manipulative and scheming.

 

Even when she is told it is her fault that she is still ill she takes it on the chin and cannot see how such comments might harm observers let alone other sufferers. She is on the maximum painkillers for her condition (can't tell you what it is right now as it would be an obvious identifier). There is no cure, (but its not aids). God keeps her alive she insists, and his healing has been promised in the words of others. If it wasn't for god she says she wopuld have gone crazy long ago - I can believe that ! For me to tell her its all hogwash would be like trading "some hope" for "no hope". It would not be fair of me to alleviate my solitude by confessing my thoughts.

 

There is a whole stack of stuff I need to get off my chest but I think I will have to do it gradually - I have to post this now as duty calls and I have to attend to her needs - its not her fault - she is so naive and innocent even if a little obsessed by certain things.

 

Catch you later,

 

Lyall

[Margee]

There is a whole stack of stuff I need to get off my chest but I think I will have to do it gradually - I have to post this now as duty calls and I have to attend to her needs - its not her fault - she is so naive and innocent even if a little obsessed by certain things.

 

Catch you later,

 

Lyall

 

You're a good man Lyall. You stay here with us and post your concerns......You will know what the best moves are at the right time. For now do what you're doing.

[Akheia]

Lyall, I'm so glad you posted your progress so far. It sounds like you're doing the best you can. Please don't feel compelled to move quickly if you're just not in a place to do that. I'd say your situation is very delicate. I agree with my dear Margee that you'll know better what to do when the time comes.

[lyall]

Thank you Margee,

 

I don't know if I am good or not - I am beginning to feel guilty about the way I feel. I feel a rant coming on…

 

I have started to feel angry. I mean, I know I have mentioned it before - being all things to all people as the apostle Paul suggests - but I always thought of it as standard practice for a christian. Heck I have always been like that - I have always had time for the underdog, even during times when i was back pedalling away from god I still had time for my fellow man - I mean we all have to survive somehow and most people cant help the way they look. I have seen so many people both in church and out of it marginalised for all sorts of reasons but I could never turn away from any one of them. I see in church just the same stuff I see in the "world". It’s the hypocrisy that makes my blood boil.

 

And who knows the circumstances without asking ? I saw one man sweeping the streets - he was looked down upon - but that man used to be an engineer... but then all the jobs were outsourced to other countries overnight and the opportunities dried up. He went out and got himself that sweeping job at the age of 63 and he held his head high.

 

Now I am not saying I am a road sweeper and I am not saying I am ugly I am just saying that if we have something in common that binds us to each other should all the other circumstances matter especially when they do not have a direct effect on the matter in hand and should we judge when we don’t have all the facts?

 

Some guy came into our church named George: he was old; he had retired; he was a man of modest mean; he had a wife that tracked his every move: she never let him rest; she never let him stay a minute longer in that church past the allotted service time and she did not share his faith. As far as the church was concerned he was utterly spineless and deserving of his domineering wife. During the church service intermission when the leaders were sorting out which kids were going with which youth worker he would try to converse with the people around him - they would turn away from him hoping he would not catch their eye. I started deliberately sitting next to him and engaging him whenever there was an opportunity and then, when the service was over, I would walk with him to the bus stop and wait there and chat until his bus arrived. Then I would go back to the church and do what I had to do until it was time for me to get my own bus. People started to say nasty things about him and nasty things about the fact that I had time for him. They would invite me to come redecorate the church or give it a spring-clean or organise something or other and then say “Whatever you do dont bring George with you”. When they saw me alone in church they would say “How is George?” and laugh but I would say “Ask him yourself when you see him, it will make his day!” One person even asked me “When are you and George getting married?” A crass stupid comment especially as I was only 21 at the time and George was 78 and already married and same sex relationships were taboo in our church and weren’t even joked about. I understood the joke of course but why was it considered funny ? Couldnt they see that no one else offered their time?

 

George eventually died. I went to his funeral - the only representative of the church. His wife was always complaining about him so after the proceedings I asked her how she was coping and what she would miss most about her late husband. "Nothing" she rasped, " he always had time for other people and none for me!" That wasnt true because I used to call in and see him cleaning and decorating and helping out in the kitchen and I would see flowers and gifts for his wife that he had purchased while out getting the groceries. Well it turned out that what she really meant was that whenever he was approached by a tramp or an alcoholic or any other kind of beggar he would always listen to their story and sympathise and try to suggest ways to improve their situation and buy them a sandwich and a coffee and give them cash - he even bought an elderly destitute lady a pair of shoes! This generosity drove his wife crazy although it was the same generosity that got her all she wanted. She said it was him doing his own thing and that it was his hobby for he had no other hobby.

 

He never once mentioned to me that he gave beggars his time and money - he was a very modest person and never boasted. If he had told me I know I would have said something about helping the homeless but drawing the line at helping someone with a habit. Looking back now I know what he was doing - he was behaving exactly like jesus said we should even when it incurred his wife's wrath. He treated everyone the same - habit or not. I have never met anyone like him since.

 

How do I know his wife was telling the truth? Well there was someone at the funeral he used to work with who verified his character. It was he who told me about buying the old lady a pair of shoes - I can't imagine what would have happened if he had done that in front of his wife! He worked in local transport. If someone came in with a large family and had to get somewhere in a hurry and he could see they were having trouble raising the fare he would make up the difference and give them their tickets. Sometimes they would promise to come back and repay him and he would say "Only if you remember because I shan't !" He would then put his hand in his pocket, bring out the cash and place it in the till. He had also been known to come out of the ticket office and buy all the kids a soda from the machine in the hall, especially if they were staring at it longingly.

 

The elderly destitute lady in need of shoes was just one of an assortment of beggars my friend and his colleague would encounter on lunch breaks in the town. They often went to a sandwich bar. Occasionally they were pushed for time so they would buy lunch to eat on the way back and sometimes this is when George would come across a beggar - sometimes the donated coffee and sandwich was his own.

 

Sorry I am having a rant - its rant or explode at the moment!

There is much more to George including a fascinating childhood and why his wife was so bitter and why he was so dedicated to her (much like I am to mine) but I will only tell you if you really want to hear it. It was the kind of stuff we discussed at the bus stop.

 

I had time for a person no one else had time for and it turned out this person had time for everyone - he had to die before I found out !

 

I feel more angry about that church now that I am ex-c than I did at the time!

 

His hobby was the human race.

 

Just imagine if everyone on the planet had that hobby…

 

 

Kindest regards, Lyall

[Positivist]

I will only tell you if you really want to hear it.

 

His hobby was the human race.

So moving, Lyall. I'd love to hear more. I am so glad you have joined us!

[lyall]

Lyall, I'm so glad you posted your progress so far. It sounds like you're doing the best you can. Please don't feel compelled to move quickly if you're just not in a place to do that. I'd say your situation is very delicate. I agree with my dear Margee that you'll know better what to do when the time comes.

 

Dear Akheia,

 

Thank you, I desperately need to believe what you say because my head is bursting with just about everything and I could write a ton of stuff on every aspect from every angle and it is all clamouring for attention in my brain screaming "me first" like a demon that needs to be released from its confinement. I know it is all stuff that has been bottled up - I know that I have had doubts and queried things throughout the past forty years and that when I did i took those things and stuffed them into a compartment in my brain labeled "to be dealt with later - if at all" because it was subconsciously more comfortable to continue believing without rocking the boat than to confront those things but the trouble now is that those things are banging and kicking the walls of that forgotten compartment because there is so much in there that when I attempted to stuff one more thing inside it two other things managed to escape and flew around inside my head evading capture and now they have managed to force the door so that all the other things are escaping and joining them and zooming around inside my head and causing my fingers to type words but they also want me to open my mouth and start yelling about stuff !

I could singlehandedly jam this website with all that struggles to be heard but of course I also need to listen back to know that y’all are listening unlike the big Sky-Brother who sees-all and does f***-all.

Sorry for the bad language - that is something else that wants to be heard. Its like when a person comes out of a coma - their first words are likely to make you blush!

Best wishes and kindest regards - Lyall

 

 

Thank you, I desperately need to believe what you say because my head is bursting with just about everything and I could write a ton of stuff on every aspect from every angle and it is all clamouring for attention in my brain screaming "me first" like a demon that needs to be released from its confinement. I know it is all stuff that has been bottled up - I know that I have had doubts and queried things and that when I did i took those things and stuffed them into a compartment in my brain labeled "to be dealt with later - if at all" because it was subconsciously more comfortable to continue believing without rocking the boat than to confront that which has been banging and kicking the walls of that forgotten compartment only now there is so much in there that when I attemted to stuff one more thing in there two other things managed to escape and flew around inside my head evading capture and now they have managed to force the door so that all the other things are joining them and zooming around inside my head and causing my fingers to type words but they also want me to open my mouth and start yelling about stuff !

[lyall]

Sorry for the repeat above,

 

 

This machine is cleverer than I am

[Zephie]

Hi Lyall! Welcome to Ex-C!! I've been reading the thread and I am so sorry to hear that you are going through all of this. The people at your church sound terrible and uncaring towards your wife. That sucks that they treat her that way. Glad to see you here and echoing everyone's sentiments above...don't be afraid of posting here as plenty of us have to stay in the closet due to circumstances.

[lyall]

Dear Positivist

 

That's a good name to have - I look forward to being something similar one day, time permitting. Thank you for all your advice. I am trying to rein in my thoughts so that I can proceed logically and in order but everything wants to come out simultaneously at the moment.

 

I am not George but our stories are remarkably similar in parts. Sadly, George died still believing in the Big Bad Sky-Brother and I am sure he would have been just as good a person without it. He never lied about his life - he just left out the parts that made him look good, like his generosity. He spoke candidly of his life before becoming a christian: his description of his fight against his parent's catholicism in his early years; how his boyish good-looks attracted the attention of a married woman twice his age and how he succumbed to the enticement of an adulterous relationship; his regret of that situation and his vow to remain single and become celibate( he married eventually but stayed celibate - go figure!); how driving trains with truckloads of live ammunition in the second world war led to him writing an anonymous book about modern society and self-publishing it: his compassion for a jewish woman whose entire family had been wiped out in one single moment in one single gas chamber and remarkably how he came to faith by reading a second-hand account of a personal testimony in a second-hand book discovered in a second-hand bookshop's dustbin!

 

These are just the headlines. If I ever turned this into a book all credit would have to go to George but I doubt he would ever have wanted it in print. He was the most self-effacing person I have ever had the privilege to meet. He is long-long dead but still keenly missed.

 

Yours respectfully - Lyall

[lyall]

Thank you Zephie,

 

I find being in the closet quite claustrophobic - the only outlet is making these posts and honestly I just cannot type quickly enough. The fact that I cannot actually verbalise anything makes me feel more and more as if I am going to stand up in church one day and have a hissy-fit right there - might even stand on the chair too - lol.

 

Being sunday I was there this morning and thought for the first time how many others must be in churches around the world against their wishes - straining to keep their lips buttoned.

 

And I found the sermon extremely annoying. It was vague and inaccurate and the levity brought in to break the monotony was seriously off the point and insulting to a certain sector of the church. I could have been more rousing and convincing even without notes and even in the state I happen to be in at the moment!

 

Well that is really the shape of it... i WILL be called upon to speak - to worship - to play guitar - to play keyboards - to sing - to bring people into god's presence (yikes!) - to minister - to pray for all types of stuff.... i feel weakened just writing this... there's no way out... I think I will just have to go through the motions and silently wish people all the best in my heart.

 

Sincerely yours, Lyall

[Margee]

Don't stop ranting lyall ......Tell the stories.....we are all reading and being here to validate what you are going through. Say fuck, fuck, fuck, like I did a thousand times. My anger was sooo big...so poisionous........

 

Keep writing - we are right behind you. I am reading your whole post. You are not alone.

 

Take time out to breathe.....write out your rants...but breathe... in between. Get it all out of you.

You wait and see - I promise you - this will get easier to manage after you get that anger out.

You WILL know how to manage all of this with time.

 

huge hug for you tonight!

[lyall]

Thank you for the hug Margee, a huge one too! Just what the doctor ordered. Writing is helping a lot because I dont feel so deflated... I am however becoming more anxious.... you are right - take time to breathe. I am mentally jumping up and down in order to be seen over the parapet - to make my voice heard. Somehow I need to calm down. A real life hug would be too much to hope for but I am pondering the possibility of talking with someone over the phone - whether or not ex-c I don't know... maybe a counsellor - maybe not but its 2.45 am and I am hot-wired here. I am on a caffeine high and I don't even drink coffee ( I am a true-brit tea-drinker - lol ).

 

I trust what everyone says about gaining perspective and eventually being able to cope but its not happening yet. I know its too soon to expect that but at the moment my nervous system is doing a tap-dance on the keyboard.

 

Its a bit like going into shock.

 

Thank you for your kind words,

 

(((( back at ya )))) - Lyall

[Margee]

What is the main reason for your anger right now? When we first really accept that christianity is a lie...that's one thing to deal with... then so many other things enter our mind. What's the biggest thing you have to face up up to right now?? One thing at a time....... Breathe..............

[blackpudd1n]

Hi Lyall,

 

I've come in a little late, but I just wanted to welcome you, and please, tell me more about George. He sounds so beautiful.

 

I have to run off to the vet, but I'll pop back in later and write some more.

[Zephie]

@Lyall....I hear you about wanting to shout out. Tis the reason I sit in the back and read or just close my eyes and not sleep. So much of what is preached are just pat answers. We're here for you!

[lyall]

 

Oh...

 

Margee - I had an answer to your question but I just deleted it. I am not brave enough to voice it. It involves a phenomenal number of wasted years and I know its real but I don't want to believe it.

 

I know I've made decisions that I have never been happy with only now I feel it more keenly.

 

Let's just say that I am angry about bad decisions and leave the biggest one under that pile.

 

I feel that there are one or two things I seriously need to discuss but I don't think I can do it on here on an open forum.

 

Thank you for your kindess - Lyall

[Galien]

I don't believe that any life is wasted life. Looking back we usually find we were doing exactly what we wanted to be doing at the time. LIfe is too short for regrets.

[Noumena]

I don't believe that any life is wasted life. Looking back we usually find we were doing exactly what we wanted to be doing at the time. LIfe is too short for regrets.

 

 

...and this is how I know you WANTED to insult me and my husband. Play on Player!!

[lyall]

Thank you for all your words of encouragement people.

 

Sometimes I type away on here and feel very much in control when making my point.

 

But today is different.

 

I am getting my mind back and I still feel that where it has been for forty years has been a waste of brain-power. I have had doubts and questions but I have locked them away with a "do not disturb" sign.

 

I have made decisions that I would not have made if I was not a christian. I have put up with a lot of stuff.

 

Today I can see that I am getting my mind back but cannot see a way to end the charade totally.

 

It is going to sound selfish of me but I want whats left of my life back also but all that I am still belongs to others.

 

I want to break away from everything totally.

 

If you have read the rest of the posts you will see how difficult that desire will be to bring about.

 

Please don't think bad of me - many of you have said how good a person I am to have put up with everything so far - but if you do think I am bad just say so and I will know where I stand.

 

I am not heartless - in fact I am all heart but I know there are things (and people) that will not come out of this with me and right now I want to walk away from the whole lot of it if only it were possible and I am meditating on it point by point...

 

Everything and everyone...

 

I want to walk away and keep going.

 

Sorry

[Galien]

I don't believe that any life is wasted life. Looking back we usually find we were doing exactly what we wanted to be doing at the time. LIfe is too short for regrets.

 

 

...and this is how I know you WANTED to insult me and my husband. Play on Player!!

 

Has no idea what you mean by this Noumena.

[Galien]

Lyall when I discovered how much of my life I had lost worrying about everyone else's needs and ignoring my own, I wanted to run away too. We all have limits. I would suggest being kind to yourself, and go easy on the guilt. Of course you are not a bad person. You are part way through a massive life change, cut yourself some slack.

[Noumena]

I don't believe that any life is wasted life. Looking back we usually find we were doing exactly what we wanted to be doing at the time. LIfe is too short for regrets.

 

 

...and this is how I know you WANTED to insult me and my husband. Play on Player!!

 

Has no idea what you mean by this Noumena.

 

 

...'cause you stay in denial. Whatever though. You remind me of my mother who was very abusive, didn't own up to that fact, and used other people as a scapegoat.