Genuine Love

[JamesG]

Bhim we get it already lol lay off a bit. I know you are smart we all know you are smart what have you got to prove? Are you trying to assert yourself as an Alpha male, might as well just piss on him mark your territory and move on.

 

I don't think high school makes you smarter it gives your more knowledge that informs your  intelligence although I will say if you cant get passed high school odds are you didn't have much to begin with.

 

If End is being honest about his job and his success considering a lack of a high school diploma or GED the fact that he got there leads me to believe that he overcame many  obstacles to get there demonstrating some form of intelligence. Given his poor writing acumen I would suggest masks this. His pride also makes him appear even more ignorant.

 

That being said when I first read  his posts I thought I was talking to a kid. Especially with the misapplication of terminology. Also given his propensity to insult I have no problem with you hurling them back but just remember he is likely lashing out because of deep seeded insecurities related to his lack of education.

[Guest end3]

 

Quit blaming my writing Bhim.  I write well enough that you can understand.  I was a deacon in my church Bhim.  150+ folks thought I was worthy of the title.  I explained it was a process and how one could let the process lapse due to ego.  Your thoughts?  If you can't get the gist of this explanation Bhim, I can't help you.

 

No, you do not write well enough that I can understand, and I think this may be one of your fundamental difficulties.  Consider post #241.  You said a bunch of stuff about analytical models and higher energy, and I had no idea what you were talking about.  You even talked about the standard model, and I couldn't understand you.  The standard model is the basis for modern particle physics.  You'd think if anyone on this forum would understand what you were talking about, it would be me.  Because...you know, I'm a physicist.  I get paid to think about stuff like the standard model.  The reason I didn't understand you is because there was nothing to understand.  You are communicating whatever it is you want to say very poorly.

 

Let's be clear.  I'm not insulting you because you didn't graduate high school, but because you celebrate the fact that you didn't.  There are posters who make comments on the science vs. religion forum here.  Many of these people openly admit to having no formal training in science, yet ask questions and make comments.  Not once have I demeaned one of these posters for their lack of education.  You know why?  Because they value and respect knowledge, and seek it out.  There are ways to gain knowledge outside of a classroom, and these posters seek it out.  You treat intelligence as something to be ashamed of, and make it clear that you envy those who possess it (which is a sin against Jesus, I'll remind you yet again).

 

This is the second time you've asked me to stop insulting your intelligence, or rather lack thereof.  The first time I said I was happy to oblige, and yet you continued to revel in your own ignorance and diminish the importance of education.  I suggest you make up your mind about how you would like to proceed.  Once again (and probably for the last time), I'll not raise the issue of your lack of education with you.  But if you do, I'll happily address it.  I'd prefer you simply admit to being not very bright, so that I can know that you've repented of your disrespect for wisdom, but this would be humiliating and that's not what I'm after.  Do not glorify ignorance unless you want to know, yet again, what I think about this.

 

If you do so, we'll likely get into another war of insults.  The beauty of this is that since I don't believe in Jesus, I can pretty much say whatever I want.  You, however, are constrained by certain rules.  For example:

 

• Turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39).  You shouldn't even be responding to my insults.  You do because you're an arrogant bastard like me.  Jesus has no effect on your life.
• Don't revile when reviled (1 Peter 2:23).  When I accuse you of being an idiot, why do you defend yourself?  Jesus was called a blasphemer and he didn't bother defending himself, he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly.  I guess that only works if you believe that Jesus is a good example to follow.
• No crude joking (Ephesians 5:4).  You know that at some point I'm going to push you past your limit and you'll say something unkind about my mother.  Take care that it isn't sexual in nature, because that sort of humor is forbidden to Christians.
• Being angry isn't an excuse for sinning (Ephesians 4:26).  I'm sure at some level you're thinking "Bhim pissed me off, so I broke the rules and said something sinful."  Jesus doesn't give you a pass for that.
• You think I'm going to an eternal hell?  Why not just pour burning coals on my head right now (Romans 12:20)?  By responding to my rudeness with kindness, the Bible says that's what you're doing.  But you and I both know that this is no consolation at all.  Again, because Jesus isn't real.

I'll let your next response dictate how I should proceed.

 

Oh, I'll also let you in on a secret.  The pastor of one of my old churches also asked me to be a deacon.  I declined for pretty mundane reasons, but apparently he thought I was worthy of the title as well.  Guess what?  This doesn't make me any smarter.  Finishing high school is what makes me smarter.

 

This is why I asked you about your definition of success Bhim.  What is it you will strive to accomplish with your education?

[Galien]

End when I talked of laziness, I meant on a personal emotional level, not workwise. Sometimes we are fat and ugly, sometimes I am fat and ugly. It just is what it is.

 

I know the bills have to be paid end, I have been paying them for years I care about the fact you are going through this shit, don;t think I don't.

 

I guess I wanted you to show me examples of the genuine love you originally mentioned in your own life.

[Bhim]

Hi James, I'd like to address the very legitimate points that you've made.
 

Bhim we get it already lol lay off a bit. I know you are smart we all know you are smart what have you got to prove? Are you trying to assert yourself as an Alpha male, might as well just piss on him mark your territory and move on.

I understand why you say this.  It looks like I'm essentially beating up on End.  OK, let's be honest, I am beating up on him.  He's an evangelical, and I will admit that at some level I don't feel too bad speaking abusively to a person who believes we're all going to an eternal gas chamber.  That said, I want to be clear that this isn't about proving that I'm "smart."  Anyone who has to do that may very well not be.  On the contrary, this is about convincing End (not just the peanut gallery) that he is an idiot.  He himself needs to realize what he is lacking in the intelligence department.  To think that not having a high school diploma is a badge of honor is flat out wrong.  This is the sort of thinking that leads people to think that the earth is 6,000 years old.  It's harmful, and it needs to be combated.  For this reason, as long as End revels in his idiocy I feel compelled to remind him of his intellectual inadequacy.  He cannot simply get away with demeaning intellectualism as "of the devil" or whatever is going on in his mind.  That might fly at his church, but it shouldn't here.

 

Unlike the resident high school dropout, I do value your opinion, and would like to know what you think about my method of dealing with End.

 

I don't think high school makes you smarter it gives your more knowledge that informs your  intelligence although I will say if you cant get passed high school odds are you didn't have much to begin with.

 

Well, there are different definitions of intelligence.  Here I refer not to innate ability, but to that which can be learned.  True, some people are inherently smarter and can better leverage their knowledge.  But it is always beneficial to gain new information.  High school is the most basic form of education, and in America it's free.  Christians are always talking about America being great because we have an ill-defined thing called "freedom."  What truly makes this country great is that we give everyone a free basic education, and go so far as to force it on children.  There are places in the world where going to high school is a luxury.  If you pass on this, or worse if you can't work hard enough to graduate high school...well as you say, you probably don't have much intellectual ability to begin with.

 

And if so, what the hell is End doing debating Christianity with people who know the Bible better than he does?
 

If End is being honest about his job and his success considering a lack of a high school diploma or GED the fact that he got there leads me to believe that he overcame many  obstacles to get there demonstrating some form of intelligence. Given his poor writing acumen I would suggest masks this. His pride also makes him appear even more ignorant.

 

Yes, well I'm confused about this.  One post stated that he owned a lab and did his own experiments, which sounds patently absurd.  Another states that he inherited his money.  I'm not really sure what the deal is with him, but all I can judge him on is what he's written here.  If he has any intelligence, then like you say he hides it very well.  I can't comment on an unknown factor.
 

That being said when I first read  his posts I thought I was talking to a kid. Especially with the misapplication of terminology. Also given his propensity to insult I have no problem with you hurling them back but just remember he is likely lashing out because of deep seeded insecurities related to his lack of education.

 

I too thought I was talking to a child.  His "arguments" for Christianity are amateurish at best.  They are some of the worst I have ever seen, and I've seen a lot of apologetic arguments.  His don't even make any sense.

 

Maybe he really is insecure about not having an education.  That doesn't make it OK for him to say that being uneducated is objectively good.  It isn't.  One of the hallmarks of our modern society is that people are educated.  Even in the dark ages people were educated to some extent.  If he wants to eschew public education, he effectively wants to return to the days when men lived in caves (which I guess never really happened since humanity began 5,700 years ago with Adam). Again, I realize I sound like an asshole saying this, but there's no other way around it.  He doesn't need to admit to being an idiot, but he really has no business arguing when I refer to him as such.  What else can I call a person who thinks it's good to not take 9th grade English?

[Bhim]

I sure you don't know my history well enough G to make the statements you made.  Even if, I don't find it the best thing to express everything I believe to know about someone.  It's about as effective as calling someone fat or ugly.  Many of the things you credited me with are significantly incorrect.  That's ok.  One thing, I am damn sure not lazy.  Started at 4:50 this morning and it is 10:47 atm and I am still running samples in my lab.  I do that a lot.  Someone ma'am has to pay the bills for the children.

 

Ah yes, the old "you don't know me" argument.  The only thing I know about you, and the only issue I've discussed, is that you didn't graduate high school and are proud of it.  I have no idea what you mean by "running samples" in your lab, and it likely isn't relevant.  Feel free to correct any errors I've made, but please be more specific than you were in the above comment.

 

Bhim, you do realize you can get a BS in the state of Texas with 6 hours of English lit. and one tech writing class and that if you try you can substitute another class for tech writing?  Well, let me assure you in 1990, that was the case.  If I felt communication was more vital than the level I have attained, then I would go enroll again.  And I am guessing you are a young man.  Your thinking you know more or assuming you know more than you actually do is typical for young men.  You are typical.  Also, you might want to start checking the ego meter now because you are already demonstrating the disgusting attributes that most PhD's achieve in their own minds.  Also Bhim, if you look closely enough, you will find that most everyone is saying the same thing with regard to belief.  The different religions speak to what people are able to hear and make the most sense.  I would suggest that you look at the different languages and see how similar they really are.....Christianity included.

 

You can get a BS in any state with six hours of English literature by attending the University of Phoenix.  What's your point?

 

You're right, I'm a young man.  29 to be specific.  You know why I don't associate your advanced age with wisdom?  Because I don't believe that Proverbs 16:31 is inspired by God.  Though you might think yourself wise, let me remind you that you believe it is morally right to torture our souls for all eternity.  Is this in keeping with your idea of wisdom?

 

My wife chose divorce not because of Christianity Bhim, you dimwit, but as RS states......we all have family of origin crap.  Christianity speaks to those who believe in it as a means to fix the problem(s).  Don't begrudge someone for moving towards morality, regardless of their path.

 

Goodness, I should not have taught you the word "dimwit" is post #295.  You've just uttered a careless word, and according to your own (false) beliefs you will be held accountable for it, as described in Matthew 12:36.  Do you realize that every time you return my insults, you are inflicting another wound upon the body of Christ?  This is, after all, what your perverted religion teaches.  Jesus supposedly had to suffer for every sin you would commit.  When you sin further, you ask him to bear the weight of additional sin.  Unless, of course, you believe that you and I aren't sinning right now.

 

You asked me about my definition of personal success.  I discussed this in post #232.  It is not an issue I'm shy about discussing, but if you want to talk about it you may want to start a new thread (I'd suggest in the science vs. religion forum), because it isn't related to anything we've brought up here.  And I would hate to detract from the issue of how you can possibly justify your current behavior in light of what your religion teaches about dealing with those who revile you.

[JamesG]

I feel the same way Bhim. I think the spiritual quantitative analysis argument made me go prematurely bald   but I am not sure End3 has his teeth still after all my pulling on them.

 

As far as dealing with End3 while these tend to be somewhat isolated conversations keep in mind that what we are discussing typically  involves larger groups. So there probably is a degree of Group Polarization involved.  So acting to aggressively can push your opponent more to the extreme of his/her original position. Which seems to be happening here. Just an observation though while I love the sciences I am only a mere artist.

 

 

now if you read this far End3 if you want to stop getting insulted by Bhim I suggest acknowledging the  value of a high-school education this does not demean you or your background it is simply acknowledging value in something as helpful to ones well  being

[Guest end3]

oy, both of you belong together.  Good luck.

 

Y'all must be in pretty sad shape if y'all have to use your high-powered education as weapons.  Classy.

[JamesG]

its not an insult end3 and I never said you were unintelligent. In fact despite your lack of education you managed to  succeed which says quite a bit about yourself on your  own merit. You may not need an education now but  it does show in your writing which can make you seem less  than you are. My "high-powered" education is in art in areas of science math  and English I am average  I never said I was better than you   because of it. learn to grow some thicker skin. You cant take offense to constructive criticism its meant to help not to hurt. And no I am not in a  sad shape very happy with my self. Just get over the  personal stuff  we don't know each other I can only offer an unbiased opinion of what I have read from you.. I don't think your a bad person but you might have some maturing still left to do if you are still so aggressive despite what is going on around you.  I am not  out to get you but I will always be bluntly honest  with you

[Galien]

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

My idea of success in life has always been genuine love, it is just the way I am wired. I have always been at a loss to understand the average person's disinterest in that as a measure of success. I guess the pull of our shallow culture is just too strong, even for christians.

[mymistake]

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

My idea of success in life has always been genuine love, it is just the way I am wired. I have always been at a loss to understand the average person's disinterest in that as a measure of success. I guess the pull of our shallow culture is just too strong, even for christians.

 

 

 

[Galien]

 

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

My idea of success in life has always been genuine love, it is just the way I am wired. I have always been at a loss to understand the average person's disinterest in that as a measure of success. I guess the pull of our shallow culture is just too strong, even for christians.

 

 

 

 

MM you are a dumbass of the highest order.

[mymistake]

 

 

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

My idea of success in life has always been genuine love, it is just the way I am wired. I have always been at a loss to understand the average person's disinterest in that as a measure of success. I guess the pull of our shallow culture is just too strong, even for christians.

 

 

 

 

MM you are a dumbass of the highest order.

 

 

 

I am male, I live in America and I don't agree with you.  Wouldn't that make me a triple dumbass?  Most of the things you rant about are imaginary.  There is nobody who sits around telling themselves that their own intelligence is something they did rather than a genetic gift.  Yes all those people who do not exist really bother you for doing all the things that never happened.

[Galien]

 

 

 

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

My idea of success in life has always been genuine love, it is just the way I am wired. I have always been at a loss to understand the average person's disinterest in that as a measure of success. I guess the pull of our shallow culture is just too strong, even for christians.

 

 

 

 

MM you are a dumbass of the highest order.

 

 

 

I am male, I live in America and I don't agree with you.  Wouldn't that make me a triple dumbass?  Most of the things you rant about are imaginary.  There is nobody who sits around telling themselves that their own intelligence is something they did rather than a genetic gift.  Yes all those people who do not exist really bother you for doing all the things that never happened.

 

 

Because you know all the intelligent people in the world and have taken a survey have you? You are the one who lives in a fucking dreamworld mate, just like half the people that live there with you. You live in a nasty narcissistic aggressive culture that rides roughshod over anyone that gets in its way, and a good half of your population behave exactly the same way. And you think that is normal and acceptable. You are the one who thinks the shit your country does never happens. Shame there is documentary evidence. But you won't notice that either, will you because you think you have the right to be a condescending cunt, just like your government and just like a lot of the people that live there.

 

Turn a blind eye as much as you like,the truth is NOT going to go away just because you ignore it.

[Bhim]

oy, both of you belong together. Good luck.

 

Y'all must be in pretty sad shape if y'all have to use your high-powered education as weapons. Classy.

...says the person with no education, high-powered or otherwise.  Your lack of an education really shows in your inability to either put together an argument, or follow one from another poster.  If you never took English after the seventh grade, you never read literature and wrote essays on their content.  The reason kids do that in school is so that when they grow up to be adults, they can read contemporary pieces of writing or listen to speeches, dissect their meaning, and form their own conclusions.  This is what creates an informed electorate in America, it's what allows people to analyze religious arguments on forums like this.  That you missed out on this may very well be why you make laughable arguments to the effect of "analytical chemistry resembles the love of God, therefore Jesus will send you to hell for not believing in him."  I know plenty of evangelicals who did graduate high school.  While they still believe in the vile doctrine of hell, at least they don't make comments like yours.

 

Your seeming inability to parse an argument may be why you have continually ignored my reason for speaking so harshly with you.  I already told you that I don't begrudge someone merely for not being educated.  What I do not suffer is for someone to revel in their ignorance, to glorify them as if it were a point of merit.  Your pride in not graduating high school colors everything else you say.  It is what a sociologist might call your "master status."  You're not just an evangelical Christian on this forum.  You're effectively the forum's proud high school dropout.  When you talk about Jesus, I can't help but think that the words you write are coming from the mind of a person who may not have even read and understood the whole Bible.  If you want me to listen to anything you have to say about Jesus, you need to unequivocally state that it is not a good thing to be a dropout.

 

If it gives you some perspective, I feel similarly about Dr. Paul Broun, a US representative who said that evolution and cosmology are lies from the pit of hell.  This guy has what you would blithely call a "high-powered education" in that he went not only to college but medical school, and presumably practiced as a physician for a number of years (which requires regular education and training).  I likewise feel that he has undermined the value of education, and I would probably speak similarly to him if I could.  But at least here there's a mitigating factor: he's speaking as a qualified commentator who's actually studied evolution and perhaps had some introductory courses in astronomy.  He's flat out wrong, but at least he exposed himself to the information.  You, on the other hand, might as well be talking about what it's like to live on the moon when you talk about the value of education.

 

My wife chose divorce not because of Christianity Bhim, you dimwit, but as RS states......we all have family of origin crap.  Christianity speaks to those who believe in it as a means to fix the problem(s).  Don't begrudge someone for moving towards morality, regardless of their path.

 

I didn't address this in your previous post; so pleased was I with the fact that you disobeyed your lord by insulting me that I passed it over.

 

You ask me not to begrudge someone for their choice of path.  And yet you say that any path but Jesus will lead to eternal hell.  Utter hypocrisy?  Or am I missing something?

 

If you pass judgment on someone for their religion, you lose the right to complain as I judge you for every life choice you've ever made.

[mymistake]

 

Because you know all the intelligent people in the world and have taken a survey have you? 

 

 

What makes intelligent people intelligent is that they are intelligent.  QED.  No survey required.

 

 

 

You are the one who lives in a fucking dreamworld mate, just like half the people that live there with you.

 

Sure, it's all the people who don't agree with you who are living in a dreamworld.

 

. . .  you think that is normal and acceptable . . . 

 

More ranting about things that didn't happen.  It's not real.  Relax.  Take a deep breath and tell yourself "It is not real".

 

 

You are the one who thinks . . . 

 

It didn't happen.  It is imaginary.  Take a deep breath and tell yourself "It is not real".

 

 

But you won't notice . . . 

 

Again you rant about things that didn't happen.  It's imaginary.  It didn't happen.

[Galien]

America has an informed electorate?? Well fuck me.

 

Why do they keep electing rich idiots then?

[Bhim]

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

I don't know if I'm more or less "intelligent" than most people I went to college with.  And I don't want to get into arguments of nature vs. nurture or quantifying intelligence.  But you may be a bit premature in calling the acquisition of knowledge (which I'm using as a functional definition of intelligence, for the moment) a genetic gift.  You have to work at acquiring knowledge.  And surely it is right to take pride in your own work.  I see nothing wrong with pride if it doesn't involve the denigration of others.

 

And speaking of denigrating others, I hope it's patently obvious to everyone that I would be far more charitable to End if he did not believe in Jesus.  As I said, belief in Jesus is tantamount to sanctioning genocide.  It's probably worse, actually.  At least genocide doesn't last for an eternity.

 

I feel the same way Bhim. I think the spiritual quantitative analysis argument made me go prematurely bald   but I am not sure End3 has his teeth still after all my pulling on them.

 

As far as dealing with End3 while these tend to be somewhat isolated conversations keep in mind that what we are discussing typically  involves larger groups. So there probably is a degree of Group Polarization involved.  So acting to aggressively can push your opponent more to the extreme of his/her original position. Which seems to be happening here. Just an observation though while I love the sciences I am only a mere artist.

 

 

now if you read this far End3 if you want to stop getting insulted by Bhim I suggest acknowledging the  value of a high-school education this does not demean you or your background it is simply acknowledging value in something as helpful to ones well  being

 

James, one of the great things about liberal education is that we all learn something about everything.  Sure, you might not be a scientist, just as I don't know anything about art.  But we both have the critical thinking skills necessary to learn what we need to know.  I doubt either of us would succomb to arguments for Jesus based on analytical chemistry.

[Galien]

 

 

Because you know all the intelligent people in the world and have taken a survey have you? 

 

 

What makes intelligent people intelligent is that they are intelligent.  QED.  No survey required.

 

 

 

You are the one who lives in a fucking dreamworld mate, just like half the people that live there with you.

 

Sure, it's all the people who don't agree with you who are living in a dreamworld.

 

 

. . .  you think that is normal and acceptable . . . 

 

More ranting about things that didn't happen.  It's not real.  Relax.  Take a deep breath and tell yourself "It is not real".

 

 

 

You are the one who thinks . . . 

 

It didn't happen.  It is imaginary.  Take a deep breath and tell yourself "It is not real".

 

 

 

But you won't notice . . . 

 

Again you rant about things that didn't happen.  It's imaginary.  It didn't happen.

 

 

Of course it didn't happen, drone strikes don't happen, unecessary wars don't happen, there is no collateral damage, no banks that fuck the worlds economy and get off scot free, no diplomatic lies, nothing. It is all a figment of my imagination.

 

That is what you tell yourself honey, how could anyone with half a conscience live with it otherwise?

[Galien]

 

I find most highly educated people so arrogant I cannot abide them. One would think intelligence would inform a person that their intelligence is a genetic gift, not something they did. But no, most would rather use it as an occasion for self aggrandisement, and few things annoy me more. It is like thinking you are better than other people because you are physically attractive (imagine!!!)

 

I don't know if I'm more or less "intelligent" than most people I went to college with.  And I don't want to get into arguments of nature vs. nurture or quantifying intelligence.  But you may be a bit premature in calling the acquisition of knowledge (which I'm using as a functional definition of intelligence, for the moment) a genetic gift.  You have to work at acquiring knowledge.  And surely it is right to take pride in your own work.  I see nothing wrong with pride if it doesn't involve the denigration of others.

 

And speaking of denigrating others, I hope it's patently obvious to everyone that I would be far more charitable to End if he did not believe in Jesus.  As I said, belief in Jesus is tantamount to sanctioning genocide.  It's probably worse, actually.  At least genocide doesn't last for an eternity.

 

I feel the same way Bhim. I think the spiritual quantitative analysis argument made me go prematurely bald   but I am not sure End3 has his teeth still after all my pulling on them.

 

As far as dealing with End3 while these tend to be somewhat isolated conversations keep in mind that what we are discussing typically  involves larger groups. So there probably is a degree of Group Polarization involved.  So acting to aggressively can push your opponent more to the extreme of his/her original position. Which seems to be happening here. Just an observation though while I love the sciences I am only a mere artist.

 

 

now if you read this far End3 if you want to stop getting insulted by Bhim I suggest acknowledging the  value of a high-school education this does not demean you or your background it is simply acknowledging value in something as helpful to ones well  being

 

James, one of the great things about liberal education is that we all learn something about everything.  Sure, you might not be a scientist, just as I don't know anything about art.  But we both have the critical thinking skills necessary to learn what we need to know.  I doubt either of us would succomb to arguments for Jesus based on analytical chemistry.

 

 

All of this knowledge is not leading to wisdom, but away from simply being a decent human being. That makes it useless.

[mymistake]

 

Of course it didn't happen, drone strikes don't happen, unecessary wars don't happen, there is no collateral damage, no banks that fuck the worlds economy and get off scot free, no diplomatic lies, nothing. It is all a figment of my imagination.

 

That is what you tell yourself honey, how could anyone with half a conscience live with it otherwise?

 

 

Try to pay attention.  Drone strikes did happen.  Unnecessary wars did happen.  There was a great deal of lives lost in collateral damage.  Banks do rob the world.  There have been many lies.  The figment of your imagination is when you get out your paint brush and start telling me what I believe and what I think.  

[Bhim]

America has an informed electorate?? Well fuck me.

 

Why do they keep electing rich idiots then?

 

This is rhetoric.  Finely done, I will say, but not entirely based in fact.  Could Americans be more informed?  Sure.  But we have a basic grasp of what our politicians are doing.  Your comment could easily be redirected at anyone.  Why do Italians keep electing sex fiends?  Why do Arabs go out and protest their government, only to elect Islamic theocrats?  Why do Indians elect corrupt officials?  You're engaging in an extreme form of cynicism.

 

I think America is great, but unlike Christians I don't think it's the kingdom of Jesus.  I'm not offended if you keep criticizing America, but I don't share your views so I don't have much further comment (unless you have specific questions for me).

 

All of this knowledge is not leading to wisdom, but away from simply being a decent human being. That makes it useless.

 

I don't know what you mean by "wisdom" in this context, so again I have no comment.  Since you're not making a case for Jesus being God, I don't really feel compelled to argue and am content to simply agree to disagree.

[Galien]

 

 

America has an informed electorate?? Well fuck me.

 

Why do they keep electing rich idiots then?

 

This is rhetoric.  Finely done, I will say, but not entirely based in fact.  Could Americans be more informed?  Sure.  But we have a basic grasp of what our politicians are doing.  Your comment could easily be redirected at anyone.  Why do Italians keep electing sex fiends?  Why do Arabs go out and protest their government, only to elect Islamic theocrats?  Why do Indians elect corrupt officials?  You're engaging in an extreme form of cynicism.

 

Oh, in that I suspect the motives of the american government? You bet I do.

 

I think America is great, but unlike Christians I don't think it's the kingdom of Jesus.  I'm not offended if you keep criticizing America, but I don't share your views so I don't have much further comment (unless you have specific questions for me).

Great at what, walking all over everyone else? Why are you not embarrassed and ashamed of the way your government behaves?

 

All of this knowledge is not leading to wisdom, but away from simply being a decent human being. That makes it useless.

 

I don't know what you mean by "wisdom" in this context, so again I have no comment.  Since you're not making a case for Jesus being God, I don't really feel compelled to argue and am content to simply agree to disagree.

 

No need to be offended for america, doesn't need your help any more than mohommed needs muslims to go apeshit everytime someone levels a criticism. Australia, where I live, is full of lazy drunkards. I don't need to comment when people mention that fact. It's true.

 

I guess wisdom is an outdated concept. It is that thing you do with knowledge to make the world better, not worse.

[Galien]

 

 

Of course it didn't happen, drone strikes don't happen, unecessary wars don't happen, there is no collateral damage, no banks that fuck the worlds economy and get off scot free, no diplomatic lies, nothing. It is all a figment of my imagination.

 

That is what you tell yourself honey, how could anyone with half a conscience live with it otherwise?

 

Try to pay attention.  Drone strikes did happen.  Unnecessary wars did happen.  There was a great deal of lives lost in collateral damage.  Banks do rob the world.  There have been many lies.  The figment of your imagination is when you get out your paint brush and start telling me what I believe and what I think.

 

 

I know what you think by the stupid things you say.

[JamesG]

geez I think Gallien woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Lets try and check that negativity at the door.

 

Probably doesn't even notice all of our international aid that probably has helped far more lives than have been damaged by our foreign  policies. Only seeing the bad is a symptom of your depression. If you strip out the emotional response you  want to give and just plainly add up the observable evidence America is not so bad. Heck 70 years ago the Japanese were knocking at your door in their empire  building schemes but that wasn't your generation was it funny how short a cynics memory is.

[Bhim]

Oh, in that I suspect the motives of the american government? You bet I do.

OK, suspect away. But as you yourself ask: what are you going to do about it?  If you think America is doing something that negatively affects you, maybe you should write your leaders and ask them to do something about it.  Or you could try and influence my vote.  Are there specific people you want me, as an American voter, to try and put in office?  Making a blanket statement that you think we're all evil without providing some kind of solution you're just expressing your hatred of America.

 

And if that's all you want to do, that's fine.  Like I said, I'll just agree to disagree.  I don't suspect that my government has any malicious intent towards me.

 

Great at what, walking all over everyone else? Why are you not embarrassed and ashamed of the way your government behaves?

 

This is an emotional appeal.  My government doesn't walk all over me.  Maybe America oppresses you, and if so I have to wonder what Australia does to protect its citizens.  Sure I'm not proud of everything my government does.  Who is?  But I like America for providing free education.  I like it for providing the poor with assistance.  I like it for funding world-class research in all areas of science including my own.  I like it because it sent the first men to the moon, and I wish that this, our greatest accomplishment, hadn't happened over forty years ago.  I could write a fair bit on things I like about America if I wanted to.  But I'll summarize it all by saying that I have no desire to move anywhere else.  I have complaints about my government (which is why I vote against Republicans as often as possible).  But the good that America does for me and its other citizens far outweighs the bad.

 

If you don't like America you're free not to come here.  You're also free to come here and complain about it.  Another thing I like about my government is that our police won't shoot you for criticizing them.  Sure, many other countries have such freedoms, but I still give America credit for being among them.

 

No need to be offended for america, doesn't need your help any more than mohommed needs muslims to go apeshit everytime someone levels a criticism. Australia, where I live, is full of lazy drunkards. I don't need to comment when people mention that fact. It's true.

 

This seems to boil down to "the world is going to hell in a handbasket."  I used to believe that when I was a Christian.  I discarded my misanthropy the day I discarded Jesus for the trash he is.  I no longer believe that people are inherently bad.  Sure, some are (e.g. evangelicals).  But rather than resign myself to some belief that everyone sucks, I choose to work within the system and be practical.

 

I guess wisdom is an outdated concept. It is that thing you do with knowledge to make the world better, not worse.

 

This statement is too general for me to comment on it very deeply.  Sure, I think that knowledge should make the world better; that's why I study science.  Not sure what else you're looking for me to say.

 

Galien, it's OK to be passionate about an issue, but you've got to make your grievances less general.  You paint with such a wide brush I have a hard time addressing any concrete issues.