Guest end3 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 "I think the Bible is pretty straightforward about people going to hell if they have no faith in Jesus. To that, I would hope there is no eternal hell and that we all are going to Heaven. But if it is, it is." End3 you mentioned you make quite a bit of money earlier. Do you own a house or property? You cant get to heaven unless you donate everything to the poor its pretty clear on that. Point is there is no possible way to get to heaven as each path excludes the other the bible is pretty straightforward about the impossibility of going to heaven. Lol, "finished" would be the answer to that particular scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I hear you MM, but for the sake of the discussion? What would be wrong with letting you mind consider. I spent the 1990's and the 2000's considering how cool it would be if we could find evidence of God. I've been there. I've done the whole apologetics thing. The last time I thought I had evidence of God was back when I believed the Bible Code was hot stuff. Okay let's say you get your evidence. Then what? What does discovering God get us? Sure it would validate your religion. I remember that part. That is why I wanted it. I believed so hard that I knew the evidence was out there and I wanted to discover it. That road leads to abandoning Christianity and for many it also leads to atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 " I stated it only in Christian terms thinking you had the scientific understanding already. Not a big deal about the analogy, just facinated that the parallel exists. Again, I think we could use the process as evidence just as we use it in science, but we have no understanding of "spirtual quantification". I get the scientific understanding of it and I get the Christian terminology I am granting that you are using them correctly. Aside from there is a parallel what are you trying to point out? I can draw the same parallel to FSM/Hindu gods etc. please continue and explain otherwise it is all pointless if there is nothing else to elaborate other than a parallel. We use one to define evidence, why not the other? what evidence are you defining? Why wont you just directly answer the question I have tentatively agreed to your terms. If you have nothing to elaborate other than a parallel I think we are done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Those were my thoughts. You keep preaching Hindu and culture in my opinion. I'm sorry you don't understand my writing. I will try to work more diligently at fleshing out the blank spots, That is about all I can do. Please quit beating me up about it. I have given you some history so that you might understand. Again, please speak to the discussion at hand or decide you can't because you can't understand my writing. I wouldn't call what I'm doing preaching because this implies religious admonition. I am speaking about Hinduism and culture because I am claiming that Christianity is a white, Western religion, and since I have my own culture I am not going to convert. Not that there's anything wrong with white, Western culture at all. But to say that one needs to adopt another person's culture to be saved from an eternal hell is quintessential bigotry. And make no mistake: Christianity has a lot of Western cultural baggage from which it cannot be separated. The simple model of "repent and believe" is untenable if you aren't already culturally Christian. I refer to culture so frequently because evangelicals are out to destroy mine. How would you react if, say, Muslims were out to destroy Western culture? You'd probably go on a crusade and kick their asses. You believe I've been to harsh with you? Fair enough, perhaps its time for me to let up. Please bear in mind though that it's you who proudly proclaimed your lack of education. I'd recommend that you not take pride in being a high school dropout unless you have some Bill Gates-style story about your own innovative skills leading you to success. Dropping out of high school is at best an obstacle to be overcome. It is not a good thing to be a high school dropout. It's no more virtuous or good than becoming handicapped is. Handicapped people can do great things including competing in the Olympics. I'm sure they'd also like their legs back if possible. As I've already said I don't wish to insult you. It is Jesus I wish to insult, because he is not a good person; he is a demon and is worthy of ridicule. Even popular depictions of him resemble a effeminate cult-leader more than any sort of a god that I should respect or worship. I respect you as a person. I don't respect Jesus. But since you're on a site for ex-Christians, I suspect you can stand to listen to this sort of thing. I think the Bible is pretty straightforward about people going to hell if they have no faith in Jesus. To that, I would hope there is no eternal hell and that we all are going to Heaven. But if it is, it is. You won't just say it, will you? The words "you are going to hell" seem to come to evangelicals very slowly. The fact is, I think you're a decent human being and don't want to see anyone tortured for eternity. In the above text you've admitted that you wish things were different than the way Jesus designed them: you don't want there to be an eternal hell. Your conscience tells you that anyone who teaches that God presides over the ultimate holocaust is not a good person or a god, and yet you believe in Jesus. Christian apologists tell us that even small "sins" like stealing a paperclip merit an eternity of punishment. You don't believe that, though. So how does a good guy like you start worshiping a demon-god like Jesus who conducts the ultimate holocaust? Does not human conscience itself testify that Jesus is a false god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 " I stated it only in Christian terms thinking you had the scientific understanding already. Not a big deal about the analogy, just facinated that the parallel exists. Again, I think we could use the process as evidence just as we use it in science, but we have no understanding of "spirtual quantification". I get the scientific understanding of it and I get the Christian terminology I am granting that you are using them correctly. Aside from there is a parallel what are you trying to point out? I can draw the same parallel to FSM/Hindu gods etc. please continue and explain otherwise it is all pointless if there is nothing else to elaborate other than a parallel. We use one to define evidence, why not the other? what evidence are you defining? Why wont you just directly answer the question I have tentatively agreed to your terms. If you have nothing to elaborate other than a parallel I think we are done here. What evidence are you looking for? Edit: Ok, I have thought about it. I don't know the evidence without thinking about it, but I have a tool to measure it. Thanks for the conversation James. You are a patient individual. Blessings sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Please bear in mind though that it's you who proudly proclaimed your lack of education. I'd recommend that you not take pride in being a high school dropout unless you have some Bill Gates-style story about your own innovative skills leading you to success. Dropping out of high school is at best an obstacle to be overcome. It is not a good thing to be a high school dropout. It's no more virtuous or good than becoming handicapped is. Handicapped people can do great things including competing in the Olympics. I'm sure they'd also like their legs back if possible. I think you have probably stated here in the best possible way exactly what it is I loathe about America. Do you REALLY think that people who drop out of high school are any less important than people who did not? So your your mother and aunts would consider it dreadful for you not to be admitted to a medical degree? What a horrible form of slavery you people have created for yourselves. You honestly do believe the amount of money and status a person has is what gives them worth. Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Please bear in mind though that it's you who proudly proclaimed your lack of education. I'd recommend that you not take pride in being a high school dropout unless you have some Bill Gates-style story about your own innovative skills leading you to success. Dropping out of high school is at best an obstacle to be overcome. It is not a good thing to be a high school dropout. It's no more virtuous or good than becoming handicapped is. Handicapped people can do great things including competing in the Olympics. I'm sure they'd also like their legs back if possible. I think you have probably stated here in the best possible way exactly what it is I loathe about America. Do you REALLY think that people who drop out of high school are any less important than people who did not? So your your mother and aunts would consider it dreadful for you not to be admitted to a medical degree? What a horrible form of slavery you people have created for yourselves. You honestly do believe the amount of money and status a person has is what gives them worth. Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. It was replaced long ago. Bhim and End3 have been insulting eachother for many pages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 " I stated it only in Christian terms thinking you had the scientific understanding already. Not a big deal about the analogy, just facinated that the parallel exists. Again, I think we could use the process as evidence just as we use it in science, but we have no understanding of "spirtual quantification". I get the scientific understanding of it and I get the Christian terminology I am granting that you are using them correctly. Aside from there is a parallel what are you trying to point out? I can draw the same parallel to FSM/Hindu gods etc. please continue and explain otherwise it is all pointless if there is nothing else to elaborate other than a parallel. We use one to define evidence, why not the other? what evidence are you defining? Why wont you just directly answer the question I have tentatively agreed to your terms. If you have nothing to elaborate other than a parallel I think we are done here. What evidence are you looking for? Edit: Ok, I have thought about it. I don't know the evidence without thinking about it, but I have a tool to measure it. Thanks for the conversation James. You are a patient individual. Blessings sir. I am not looking for evidence. I am looking for a conclusion based off of your "tool". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. Yeah, yeah 'Merica is evil and Y-chromosomes are selfish dontyaknow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. Yeah, yeah 'Merica is evil and Y-chromosomes are selfish dontyaknow? We all have a choice about who we are. I don't give a flying fuck how long ago you fell out of the trees, man the fuck up and smack your ego into line. That goes for ALL of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 It was replaced long ago. Bhim and End3 have been insulting eachother for many pages now. Well I saw it not as insulting him, but insulting Christ within him. He's asked me to lay off, and I'm happy to do so. But if another evangelical would like to step up to the plate, I have plenty more to say about these peoples' worthless savior Jesus. I think you have probably stated here in the best possible way exactly what it is I loathe about America. Do you REALLY think that people who drop out of high school are any less important than people who did not? So your your mother and aunts would consider it dreadful for you not to be admitted to a medical degree? What a horrible form of slavery you people have created for yourselves. You honestly do believe the amount of money and status a person has is what gives them worth. Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. Hey, blame me, not America. Most Americans don't share my immense value of education. Are people who drop out of high school less important than the rest of us? No, they're equally valuable. They're also unemployed at higher rates, more easily tricked into voting Republican (which is bad for the rest of the world too, see the Bush Administration), and have few skills that make them valuable to others. Even supposedly "blue collar" jobs like auto mechanics requires some form of higher education. If you don't even graduate high school, the only thing you're qualified to do is operate a cash register. That's a sad life. In short: it's not good to be a dropout. It's precisely because people are valuable that everyone should graduate high school, especially given that it's a free service of our government. I respect your right to loathe America, and I can't really blame you given what we do to other nations. But personally I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Funny how I love America, and for none of the reasons that evangelicals call it the "greatest country in the world." If there's one thing this should convey, it's that we are not and hopefully never will become a Christian nation. Another point of clarification: the emphasis on the medical field is a particular trait of Indian Americans, not Americans in general. I'm a physicist, not a physician, so I fail that test (though I will become a doctor this year, since PhDs are granted equal use of that title). I do exaggerate somewhat for End's benefit, as well. I don't feel that this cultural emphasis on education is at all restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Please bear in mind though that it's you who proudly proclaimed your lack of education. I'd recommend that you not take pride in being a high school dropout unless you have some Bill Gates-style story about your own innovative skills leading you to success. Dropping out of high school is at best an obstacle to be overcome. It is not a good thing to be a high school dropout. It's no more virtuous or good than becoming handicapped is. Handicapped people can do great things including competing in the Olympics. I'm sure they'd also like their legs back if possible. I think you have probably stated here in the best possible way exactly what it is I loathe about America. Do you REALLY think that people who drop out of high school are any less important than people who did not? So your your mother and aunts would consider it dreadful for you not to be admitted to a medical degree? What a horrible form of slavery you people have created for yourselves. You honestly do believe the amount of money and status a person has is what gives them worth. Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. It was replaced long ago. Bhim and End3 have been insulting eachother for many pages now. Not replaced by me, only by idiots. Call it an epidemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This is a fun clash of cultures- and I'm not referring to Galien's little hate-storm. I don't know a whole lot about End personally- but based on his location and the ideas he's expressed, I can state with confidence that he's one of my fellow rednecks. And if there's one thing the Redneck Culture values- it's ignorance. It's a goddamn badge of honor among my people- PARTICULARLY if the ignorant hero somehow gets one over on his more educated adversary. You know- like End possibly making more money than the far more educated and articulate Bhim. I can't help but feel a twinge of ignorant pride myself- as fucking stupid as I KNOW it is. You can never truly get away from your culture- even if you disagree with damn near everything it stands for. And not only do I not know Bhim personally- I really don't know shit about Indians and/or Hindus. But I have met and worked with quite a few- classmates, professors, co-workers, etc. They're a smart and honest bunch, generally speaking- much better company that my fellow rednecks in lots of cases. But one thing I've noticed is that compared with us rednecks, they seem to have rather exaggerated notions of class- and how that should affect peoples' interactions. I haven't noticed this in peer situations- only when they perceive a significant difference in class or stature. I've had a couple of Indian professors who were downright sadistic. They were the professors- we were the lowly undergrads: It mattered not in the slightest what we thought about anything- they were very clear about that. And they found it quite funny too. The two professors I have in mind SEEMED to be a bit less heinous with me simply because I was older- they weren't as nasty with me as with some other students. But stature was obviously really REALLY important to them. And this dynamic works in the other direction too. I worked with these guys from India just a few months back. They're employed at a facility in India, and the company flew them in for a few months of training. The company dispersed these guys among various groups so that we could show them some American-style engineering. One was in my group and sat right across the aisle from me. This guy would occasionally need help on stuff- just minor software quirks, paper-work procedures, or the like- pretty run-of-the-mill stuff that you'd ask any co-worker. But he was so hesitant and apologetic about asking me questions- it was embarrassing. I assured him that if he had any questions, just let me know- I'd help him out. But he always acted like I was some goddamn guru or something that he was unworthy to approach. And it wasn't limited to me, nor to this particular guy- people all over the building had much the same experience with the guys from India. So my best guess is that this was a manifestation of their notions of class and stature? Please correct me if I'm wrong, Bhim- I'd be interested to hear your take on this. So it looks to me like we've got one culture where ignorance is valued and where notions of class are scoffed at- butting heads with another culture where education is valued and there seems to be a huge emphasis on class/stature. I just don't see these two groups getting along well in most settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 We all have a choice about who we are. I don't give a flying fuck how long ago you fell out of the trees, man the fuck up and smack your ego into line. That goes for ALL of us. What are you talking about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 It was replaced long ago. Bhim and End3 have been insulting eachother for many pages now. Well I saw it not as insulting him, but insulting Christ within him. He's asked me to lay off, and I'm happy to do so. But if another evangelical would like to step up to the plate, I have plenty more to say about these peoples' worthless savior Jesus. I think you have probably stated here in the best possible way exactly what it is I loathe about America. Do you REALLY think that people who drop out of high school are any less important than people who did not? So your your mother and aunts would consider it dreadful for you not to be admitted to a medical degree? What a horrible form of slavery you people have created for yourselves. You honestly do believe the amount of money and status a person has is what gives them worth. Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. Hey, blame me, not America. Most Americans don't share my immense value of education. Are people who drop out of high school less important than the rest of us? No, they're equally valuable. They're also unemployed at higher rates, more easily tricked into voting Republican (which is bad for the rest of the world too, see the Bush Administration), and have few skills that make them valuable to others. Even supposedly "blue collar" jobs like auto mechanics requires some form of higher education. If you don't even graduate high school, the only thing you're qualified to do is operate a cash register. That's a sad life. In short: it's not good to be a dropout. It's precisely because people are valuable that everyone should graduate high school, especially given that it's a free service of our government. I respect your right to loathe America, and I can't really blame you given what we do to other nations. But personally I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Funny how I love America, and for none of the reasons that evangelicals call it the "greatest country in the world." If there's one thing this should convey, it's that we are not and hopefully never will become a Christian nation. Another point of clarification: the emphasis on the medical field is a particular trait of Indian Americans, not Americans in general. I'm a physicist, not a physician, so I fail that test (though I will become a doctor this year, since PhDs are granted equal use of that title). I do exaggerate somewhat for End's benefit, as well. I don't feel that this cultural emphasis on education is at all restrictive. What is sad is that a country that has the hide to consider itself first world still has such a shitty third world attitude to its own citizens. When money talks, humanity is silenced. At least you are smart enough and honest enough to admit that the christian thing is largely in name only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Good to see a fellow redneck rank I grew up in the pit of Ignorance that is Alabama and proud of it had to claw my way out!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 We all have a choice about who we are. I don't give a flying fuck how long ago you fell out of the trees, man the fuck up and smack your ego into line. That goes for ALL of us. What are you talking about now? You always been this dumb? This thread is about genuine love. If you replace that with a love for money instead of people, you are fucked. Love for money and status usually comes from ego, and the need for herd apoproval. You cannot please the herd the way it is at the moment and also express genuine love, for that requires letting go of some of your ego, and remembering that people are more important than money. I don't get why end has so much trouble understanding the basic concepts of christianity. You cannot love god and money. Everything he says points directly to the fact he cares more for money. How can he expect his relationships to go well, that being the case. That is the bit I don't get about christians, jesus said love god and your neighbour as yourself. They can't even get that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This is a fun clash of cultures- and I'm not referring to Galien's little hate-storm. So it looks to me like we've got one culture where ignorance is valued and where notions of class are scoffed at- butting heads with another culture where education is valued and there seems to be a huge emphasis on class/stature. I just don't see these two groups getting along well in most settings. It isn't a hate storm, its anger at selfishness and stupidity. This shit isn't rocket science. I have very left wing view of life, those who love the education/status/culture thing tend to be right wing. I am lucky to live in a country were those things are not that important. The more I learn about right wing opinions, the more I wish we could have guns here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 It was replaced long ago. Bhim and End3 have been insulting eachother for many pages now. Well I saw it not as insulting him, but insulting Christ within him. He's asked me to lay off, and I'm happy to do so. But if another evangelical would like to step up to the plate, I have plenty more to say about these peoples' worthless savior Jesus. I think you have probably stated here in the best possible way exactly what it is I loathe about America. Do you REALLY think that people who drop out of high school are any less important than people who did not? So your your mother and aunts would consider it dreadful for you not to be admitted to a medical degree? What a horrible form of slavery you people have created for yourselves. You honestly do believe the amount of money and status a person has is what gives them worth. Explains a lot, particularly why genuine love has been replaced by this bullshit. Hey, blame me, not America. Most Americans don't share my immense value of education. Are people who drop out of high school less important than the rest of us? No, they're equally valuable. They're also unemployed at higher rates, more easily tricked into voting Republican (which is bad for the rest of the world too, see the Bush Administration), and have few skills that make them valuable to others. Even supposedly "blue collar" jobs like auto mechanics requires some form of higher education. If you don't even graduate high school, the only thing you're qualified to do is operate a cash register. That's a sad life. In short: it's not good to be a dropout. It's precisely because people are valuable that everyone should graduate high school, especially given that it's a free service of our government. I respect your right to loathe America, and I can't really blame you given what we do to other nations. But personally I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Funny how I love America, and for none of the reasons that evangelicals call it the "greatest country in the world." If there's one thing this should convey, it's that we are not and hopefully never will become a Christian nation. Another point of clarification: the emphasis on the medical field is a particular trait of Indian Americans, not Americans in general. I'm a physicist, not a physician, so I fail that test (though I will become a doctor this year, since PhDs are granted equal use of that title). I do exaggerate somewhat for End's benefit, as well. I don't feel that this cultural emphasis on education is at all restrictive. What is sad is that a country that has the hide to consider itself first world still has such a shitty third world attitude to its own citizens. When money talks, humanity is silenced. At least you are smart enough and honest enough to admit that the christian thing is largely in name only. Galien I respect you I really do but I think you have a slight bias in this regard. America is a big place not as big as India or China but its still pretty big there is a wide array of cultures involved here and the ones that may or may not have effected you do not necessarily represent the whole. It is also going through a pretty big change culturally at the moment where the "moral majority" which is the center of a lot of these issues has lost a lot of ground. It may be first in the world in some areas but the US has a lot of issues that need to be worked on. Money talks but humanity is not silenced people are waking up and change is happening even if you don't see it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This thread is about genuine love. If you replace that with a love for money instead of people, you are fucked. Love for money and status usually comes from ego, and the need for herd apoproval. You cannot please the herd the way it is at the moment and also express genuine love, for that requires letting go of some of your ego, and remembering that people are more important than money. I don't get why end has so much trouble understanding the basic concepts of christianity. You cannot love god and money. Everything he says points directly to the fact he cares more for money. How can he expect his relationships to go well, that being the case. That is the bit I don't get about christians, jesus said love god and your neighbour as yourself. They can't even get that right. You have a wild imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This is a fun clash of cultures- and I'm not referring to Galien's little hate-storm. So it looks to me like we've got one culture where ignorance is valued and where notions of class are scoffed at- butting heads with another culture where education is valued and there seems to be a huge emphasis on class/stature. I just don't see these two groups getting along well in most settings. It isn't a hate storm, its anger at selfishness and stupidity. This shit isn't rocket science. I have very left wing view of life, those who love the education/status/culture thing tend to be right wing. I am lucky to live in a country were those things are not that important. The more I learn about right wing opinions, the more I wish we could have guns here I might take you a little more seriously when you quit condemning hundreds of millions and even BILLIONS of humans at a stroke. Well, that ain't all of it- but it'd be a good start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Also Galien if you read the first page the genuine love End3 was talking about is not = to the genuine love you are talking about. He made an ill-fated attempt at comparing the sacrifice soldiers make to the sacrifice of Jesus as evidence for god's "genuine love" which is the subject of the discussion. The title is misleading as to End3 not understanding things is why education was brought up and fought about he tried to insult Bhim by suggesting he pulled a fast one over him(he didn't) and that Bhim's higher education meant nothing in regards to their mental equivalency. And things generally disintegrated from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This is a fun clash of cultures- and I'm not referring to Galien's little hate-storm. So it looks to me like we've got one culture where ignorance is valued and where notions of class are scoffed at- butting heads with another culture where education is valued and there seems to be a huge emphasis on class/stature. I just don't see these two groups getting along well in most settings. It isn't a hate storm, its anger at selfishness and stupidity. This shit isn't rocket science. I have very left wing view of life, those who love the education/status/culture thing tend to be right wing. I am lucky to live in a country were those things are not that important. The more I learn about right wing opinions, the more I wish we could have guns here I might take you a little more seriously when you quit condemning hundreds of millions and even BILLIONS of humans at a stroke. Well, that ain't all of it- but it'd be a good start. It isn't about condemning people it is about wishing they would wake the fuck up and remember each other. Whether we like it or not (and I don't) we need each other. You will never have peace while people think only about themselves. Every one knows it but few people will do anything to make the shit stop with them. I do agree with James G that it is starting to happen, but it is not happening fast enough, and the fact we allowed it to happen in the first place is just testament to how stupid we are. Don't assume I think this is just america, it is in every single country in the world. Unfortunately for america they make the loudest noise try ing to make out to the rest of the world they have the best kind of society. Maybe that was true once, it isnt now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This thread is about genuine love. If you replace that with a love for money instead of people, you are fucked. Love for money and status usually comes from ego, and the need for herd apoproval. You cannot please the herd the way it is at the moment and also express genuine love, for that requires letting go of some of your ego, and remembering that people are more important than money. I don't get why end has so much trouble understanding the basic concepts of christianity. You cannot love god and money. Everything he says points directly to the fact he cares more for money. How can he expect his relationships to go well, that being the case. That is the bit I don't get about christians, jesus said love god and your neighbour as yourself. They can't even get that right. You have a wild imagination. You have no imagination at all, and it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Galien: I really don't want to get into the arguments on this thread. I just want to point out that you made a hasty generalization when you place America in the category of being a nation of elitists. I am proud of America, not for the reasons that many carry American flags around on their cars and other jingoistic bullshit. I am proud of our Constitution and the rights that have been given to its citizens. I am not proud of many things our government has done. If I were foolish enough to only be proud if the nation actually achieved the goals that are set forth in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights I would never get there. Nor would any other government. The structure of our government was created by men who understood world history and the nature of mankind. The gov't its set up with multiple checks and balances and the spreading out of power to try to ensure that a monarch or totalitarian gov't cannot gain control. The founding Fathers knew there would be difficult times when power hungry fanatics would attempt control, which I believe is happening right now. But, though shaken, the form of government we started with still stands, the first of it's kind in history. If your looking for support in your "loathing" of America, you will not get it from me. Those kind of hyperbolic comments do not lead to enlightened discussions. I hope that was merely an excited overreaction which can happen to any of us. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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