Genuine Love

[Galien]

Galien: I really don't want to get into the arguments on this thread. I just want to point out that you made a hasty generalization when you place  America in the category of being a nation of elitists. I am proud of America, not for the reasons that many carry American flags around on their cars and other jingoistic bullshit. I am proud of our Constitution and the rights that have been given to its citizens. I am not proud of many things our government has done.  If I were foolish enough to only be proud if the nation actually achieved the goals that are set forth in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights I would never get there. Nor would any other government. The structure of our government was created by men who understood world history and the nature of mankind. The gov't its set up with multiple checks and balances and the spreading out of power to try to ensure that a monarch or totalitarian gov't cannot gain control. The founding Fathers knew there would be difficult times when power hungry fanatics would attempt control, which I believe is happening right now. But, though shaken, the form of government we started with still stands, the first of it's kind in history.    

 

If your looking for support in your "loathing" of America, you will not get it from me. Those kind of hyperbolic comments do not lead to enlightened discussions. I hope that was merely an excited overreaction which can happen to any of us. bill

 

No one is asking you to loathe anything. Your founding fathers were just guys and not gods you know. At times you need to understand things look very differnt from the outside than they do on the inside where you are. Your government is a corrupt joke, as is your judicial system. What I Ioathe is stupidity based on greed and ego, and not just where you live. Not a big fan of bullies either.

 

I guess your founding fathers had a much better understanding of what cunts people can be than I do. You have to be one to understand them generally.

[Galien]

Actually, I realise that this is exactly the same issue I had with pastors. If you want to tell me how to live, if you have the "best" society, prove it to me, show me something different, something better than all the sad tired bullshit I have heard and seen. Don't give me your rhetoric and your high ideals and your founding fathers.

 

Its the same with all the high ideals in the bible, blah blah blah but no different behaviour from any other sorry bastard.

 

For chrissake just show me SOMETHING.

[mymistake]

Actually, I realise that this is exactly the same issue I had with pastors. If you want to tell me how to live, if you have the "best" society, prove it to me, show me something different, something better than all the sad tired bullshit I have heard and seen. Don't give me your rhetoric and your high ideals and your founding fathers.

 

Its the same with all the high ideals in the bible, blah blah blah but no different behaviour from any other sorry bastard.

 

For chrissake just show me SOMETHING.

 

How about showing us evidence that any of this isn't imaginary?

 

Like say, when did America tell you how to live?

[Galien]

 

Actually, I realise that this is exactly the same issue I had with pastors. If you want to tell me how to live, if you have the "best" society, prove it to me, show me something different, something better than all the sad tired bullshit I have heard and seen. Don't give me your rhetoric and your high ideals and your founding fathers.

 

Its the same with all the high ideals in the bible, blah blah blah but no different behaviour from any other sorry bastard.

 

For chrissake just show me SOMETHING.

 

How about showing us evidence that any of this isn't imaginary?

 

 

So what impresses you fella, what do you find in our society worth respect? What do you see that is honest left in the world?

[Bhim]

Also Galien if you read the first page the genuine love End3 was talking about is not = to the genuine love you are talking about. He made an ill-fated attempt at comparing the sacrifice soldiers make to the sacrifice of Jesus as evidence for god's "genuine love" which is the subject of the discussion. The title is misleading as to End3 not understanding things is why education was brought up and fought about he tried to insult Bhim by suggesting he pulled a fast one  over him(he didn't) and that Bhim's higher education meant nothing in regards to their mental equivalency. And things generally disintegrated from there.

 

Thank you James, for this concise summary of the discussion.

 

As you correctly stated, I only felt a need to insult End once he brought up the issue of education.  One thing I will not suffer is the denigration of education.  Being educated is quantifiably better than remaining ignorant, and at least in regards to formal education I've cited statistics to demonstrate it.  Yes, you can be a productive person without an education.  As I've stated you can also be an Olympic athlete without a leg.  Neither disadvantage is a good thing.  I'm not going to pretend that going to college didn't make me an objectively better person than I was before I went.

 

If a person takes pride in not graduating high school, what can they expect but to be called an idiot?  As I've said elsewhere on this forum, I'm not interested in empty ridicule or joking.  When I call someone an idiot I mean it, and I think the incongruous posts we've endured is evidence in my favor.  But since I said that I would stop insulting End for the moment, I won't say any more.

 

This is a fun clash of cultures- and I'm not referring to Galien's little hate-storm.

 

I don't know a whole lot about End personally- but based on his location and the ideas he's expressed, I can state with confidence that he's one of my fellow rednecks.  And if there's one thing the Redneck Culture values- it's ignorance.  It's a goddamn badge of honor among my people- PARTICULARLY if the ignorant hero somehow gets one over on his more educated adversary.  You know- like End possibly making more money than the far more educated and articulate Bhim.  I can't help but feel a twinge of ignorant pride myself- as fucking stupid as I KNOW it is.  You can never truly get away from your culture- even if you disagree with damn near everything it stands for.

 

I can understand that one will always be a product of one's culture.  In my case I make no attempt to fight it, but the relationship between culture and religion is a topic of great interest to me.  Especially in the context of Christian proselytism.

 

Just to satiate anyone's curiosity, I'm certain I make less money than End.  My comment about the janitors was not made in jest.  Graduate students barely make a living wage, much like medical residents or junior attorneys.  As with any kind of professional education, the expectation is that you're suffering some temporary poverty for the promise of greater future earnings. Though in the case of us scientists, money is usually a secondary issue to the pursuit of knowledge.  Another reason I'm offended by the glorification of ignorance.  If I really wanted to get rich, I'd just leave academia and be a software engineer or something.

 

And not only do I not know Bhim personally- I really don't know shit about Indians and/or Hindus.  But I have met and worked with quite a few- classmates, professors, co-workers, etc.  They're a smart and honest bunch, generally speaking- much better company that my fellow rednecks in lots of cases.  But one thing I've noticed is that compared with us rednecks, they seem to have rather exaggerated notions of class- and how that should affect peoples' interactions.  I haven't noticed this in peer situations- only when they perceive a significant difference in class or stature.

 

Yes, Indians are terribly class conscious.  Back when I became a Christian I eschewed this ethic and derided Hinduism for its caste system.  I suppose after leaving the vile and wicked religion of Christianity, my sense of Indian identity has reasserted itself with a vengeance, and I'm quite eager to embrace cultural notions on a variety of issues including class and caste.  This is definitely from whence my value of education stems.  Long story short, I've utterly rejected Christianity, so I'm through pretending I'm some Western European and emulating Christian culture.  I'm Indian/Hindu, and am happy to behave like one.  But as I alluded earlier, I'm also an American, and find no contradiction between these two identities.

 

Interestingly, I've never taken issue with rednecks.  Maybe I've simply experienced a highly non-random sample of rednecks, but very few that I've met are Christians, and I've almost always had friendly interactions with them.

 

I've had a couple of Indian professors who were downright sadistic.  They were the professors- we were the lowly undergrads:  It mattered not in the slightest what we thought about anything- they were very clear about that.  And they found it quite funny too.  The two professors I have in mind SEEMED to be a bit less heinous with me simply because I was older- they weren't as nasty with me as with some other students.  But stature was obviously really REALLY important to them.

 

This seems consistent with the behavior I've observed from one Indian professor in my department.  However, I know other Indian academics who do not exhibit any sadistic tendencies at all.  There are a lot of subcultures within India; for example the more pleasant academics I'm referring to are Bengali, whereas I think the one in my department is from the South.  While I think humility should entail having an accurate view of oneself rather than a small view, I think we can all agree that sadism is rarely an acceptable behavior.

 

And this dynamic works in the other direction too.  I worked with these guys from India just a few months back.  They're employed at a facility in India, and the company flew them in for a few months of training.  The company dispersed these guys among various groups so that we could show them some American-style engineering.  One was in my group and sat right across the aisle from me.  This guy would occasionally need help on stuff- just minor software quirks, paper-work procedures, or the like- pretty run-of-the-mill stuff that you'd ask any co-worker.  But he was so hesitant and apologetic about asking me questions- it was embarrassing.  I assured him that if he had any questions, just let me know- I'd help him out.  But he always acted like I was some goddamn guru or something that he was unworthy to approach.  And it wasn't limited to me, nor to this particular guy- people all over the building had much the same experience with the guys from India.  So my best guess is that this was a manifestation of their notions of class and stature?  Please correct me if I'm wrong, Bhim- I'd be interested to hear your take on this.

 

Heh, I believe I know what's going on.  A lot of Indians seem to think of America as a sort of land of the gods, and have an inflated view of Americans.  Just look at Bollywood: it emulates American media.  My guess is that this coworker of yours thinks so highly of you because you're an American.

 

So it looks to me like we've got one culture where ignorance is valued and where notions of class are scoffed at- butting heads with another culture where education is valued and there seems to be a huge emphasis on class/stature.  I just don't see these two groups getting along well in most settings.

 

When you put it that way, I agree.  Like I said, I guess I've just encountered a highly non-random sample of rednecks.  I will admit though, my interactions with them are usually short, and I certainly wouldn't want to live in this culture.  Maybe that's another reason my faith in the false messiah Jesus only lasted for six years, and that I couldn't leave him quickly enough.

 

Thank you for your insights on this culture war End and I have gotten into.  I think you make some great observations.

 

What is sad is that a country that has the hide to consider itself first world still has such a shitty third world attitude to its own citizens. When money talks, humanity is silenced. At least you are smart enough and honest enough to admit that the christian thing is largely in name only.

 

I definitely think that the Christian identity is in name only.  But keep in mind that I consider being a Christian immoral (recall that I refer to Jesus as the original Hitler, due to his invention of the hell doctrine).  So I actually give America great credit for not being a Christian nation.  If it were, we would treat our citizens even worse because we would believe that they should trust in God instead of their government.

[Guest end3]

This is a fun clash of cultures- and I'm not referring to Galien's little hate-storm.

 

I don't know a whole lot about End personally- but based on his location and the ideas he's expressed, I can state with confidence that he's one of my fellow rednecks.  And if there's one thing the Redneck Culture values- it's ignorance.  It's a goddamn badge of honor among my people- PARTICULARLY if the ignorant hero somehow gets one over on his more educated adversary.  You know- like End possibly making more money than the far more educated and articulate Bhim.  I can't help but feel a twinge of ignorant pride myself- as fucking stupid as I KNOW it is.  You can never truly get away from your culture- even if you disagree with damn near everything it stands for.

 

And not only do I not know Bhim personally- I really don't know shit about Indians and/or Hindus.  But I have met and worked with quite a few- classmates, professors, co-workers, etc.  They're a smart and honest bunch, generally speaking- much better company that my fellow rednecks in lots of cases.  But one thing I've noticed is that compared with us rednecks, they seem to have rather exaggerated notions of class- and how that should affect peoples' interactions.  I haven't noticed this in peer situations- only when they perceive a significant difference in class or stature.

 

I've had a couple of Indian professors who were downright sadistic.  They were the professors- we were the lowly undergrads:  It mattered not in the slightest what we thought about anything- they were very clear about that.  And they found it quite funny too.  The two professors I have in mind SEEMED to be a bit less heinous with me simply because I was older- they weren't as nasty with me as with some other students.  But stature was obviously really REALLY important to them.

 

And this dynamic works in the other direction too.  I worked with these guys from India just a few months back.  They're employed at a facility in India, and the company flew them in for a few months of training.  The company dispersed these guys among various groups so that we could show them some American-style engineering.  One was in my group and sat right across the aisle from me.  This guy would occasionally need help on stuff- just minor software quirks, paper-work procedures, or the like- pretty run-of-the-mill stuff that you'd ask any co-worker.  But he was so hesitant and apologetic about asking me questions- it was embarrassing.  I assured him that if he had any questions, just let me know- I'd help him out.  But he always acted like I was some goddamn guru or something that he was unworthy to approach.  And it wasn't limited to me, nor to this particular guy- people all over the building had much the same experience with the guys from India.  So my best guess is that this was a manifestation of their notions of class and stature?  Please correct me if I'm wrong, Bhim- I'd be interested to hear your take on this.

 

So it looks to me like we've got one culture where ignorance is valued and where notions of class are scoffed at- butting heads with another culture where education is valued and there seems to be a huge emphasis on class/stature.  I just don't see these two groups getting along well in most settings.

Having a string of letters behind your name doesn't impart wisdom.  I present you "BHIM".  Bhim everyone.  Let's give him a hand.

 

 

And to you Galien.  Love means works.  Unfortunately works cost money.  Giving the hungry a hug and telling them you love them doesn't go to far.  But what the heck, no worries, I don't understand Christianity.

[Bhim]

Having a string of letters behind your name doesn't impart wisdom.  I present you "BHIM".  Bhim everyone.  Let's give him a hand.

 

Sure it does.  You only get the letters if you went to school, and this process does impart wisdom so long as you're paying attention.

 

If you want to talk about things that don't logically follow, I would like to point out that believing in Jesus doesn't impart forgiveness of sin to you.

[Bhim]

End, why do I get the impression that you envy me for being more educated than you?  Does your money not bring you joy?  Might want to check out 1 Timothy 6:10 before you continue piercing yourself.

[Guest end3]

Bhim, I mean this with all sincerity.  You sir, are lost.  Best I can tell, you scoff at those that build your toilet, your table, your house, yet you couldn't build any one yourself regardless of your articulate self-promotion.  What's the point of the education Bhim if there is no contribution to humanity.  What is your culture's definition of success? 

[Guest end3]

End, why do I get the impression that you envy me for being more educated than you?  Does your money not bring you joy?  Might want to check out 1 Timothy 6:10 before you continue piercing yourself.

 

Please no Bhim, please no.  There is no God given chance in this universe that I would wish to adopt ANY perspective you hold.

 

Edit:  I guess you haven't been paying attention.

[Guest end3]

 

Having a string of letters behind your name doesn't impart wisdom.  I present you "BHIM".  Bhim everyone.  Let's give him a hand.

 

Sure it does.  You only get the letters if you went to school, and this process does impart wisdom so long as you're paying attention.

 

If you want to talk about things that don't logically follow, I would like to point out that believing in Jesus doesn't impart forgiveness of sin to you.

 

Prove your last statement oh educated one.

 

Certainly a phd candidate could do so Bhim

[JamesG]

back to my point earlier End3 what is the conclusion you draw upon your parallel that you have conceived?

[Bhim]

Bhim, I mean this with all sincerity.  You sir, are lost.  Best I can tell, you scoff at those that build your toilet, your table, your house, yet you couldn't build any one yourself regardless of your articulate self-promotion.  What's the point of the education Bhim if there is no contribution to humanity.  What is your culture's definition of success?

While we're at it, I also couldn't operate a jackhammer.  Doesn't mean I want to go dig ditches at night during a Minnesota winter.

 

 

Please no Bhim, please no.  There is no God given chance in this universe that I would wish to adopt ANY perspective you hold.

 

Edit:  I guess you haven't been paying attention.

 

So let me get this straight: you don't want to hold the same opinion as me on anything?  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

 

Prove your last statement oh educated one.

 

Certainly a phd candidate could do so Bhim

 

Your god is a false messiah and thus unable to save anyone.  Deuteronomy 13:1-4 requires any prophet to keep the Law, other passages (e.g. Exodus 12:14) state that the Law remains in effect forever, yet evangelicals eat pork sausage and cling to Mark 7:19 along with intellectual gymnastics to justify themselves.  The fact that evangelicals feel confident in eating at McDonald's should make it patently obvious that Jesus is no messiah.  Your arguments about why God didn't mean what he clearly said in the Torah are ridiculous, and if I believed in the Bible I would regard them as blasphemy.

[Guest end3]

back to my point earlier End3 what is the conclusion you draw upon your parallel that you have conceived?

Truthfully James, I don't know that I have a conclusion other than I find it interesting that the methods are the same.  I find it interesting regardless of how silly people find it, that Moses was said to glow after being in the presence of a presumed higher energy....God.  Many analytical methods can be covered there.  I find it interesting that a stick was used to purify the water for the Israelites.....in my mind suggesting celluostic water purification.  And didn't the guy that was touting using water to power his car back in the 80's get his idea from the Bible?

 

And, I was actually reading about the standard model the other day and I think I could make a parallel case for it as well given a little time and effort.  I was drinking and had shut the website down because it seemed so obvious.

[Guest end3]

 

Bhim, I mean this with all sincerity.  You sir, are lost.  Best I can tell, you scoff at those that build your toilet, your table, your house, yet you couldn't build any one yourself regardless of your articulate self-promotion.  What's the point of the education Bhim if there is no contribution to humanity.  What is your culture's definition of success?

While we're at it, I also couldn't operate a jackhammer.  Doesn't mean I want to go dig ditches at night during a Minnesota winter.

 

 

Please no Bhim, please no.  There is no God given chance in this universe that I would wish to adopt ANY perspective you hold.

 

Edit:  I guess you haven't been paying attention.

 

So let me get this straight: you don't want to hold the same opinion as me on anything?  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

 

Prove your last statement oh educated one.

 

Certainly a phd candidate could do so Bhim

 

Your god is a false messiah and thus unable to save anyone.  Deuteronomy 13:1-4 requires any prophet to keep the Law, other passages (e.g. Exodus 12:14) state that the Law remains in effect forever, yet evangelicals eat pork sausage and cling to Mark 7:19 along with intellectual gymnastics to justify themselves.  The fact that evangelicals feel confident in eating at McDonald's should make it patently obvious that Jesus is no messiah.  Your arguments about why God didn't mean what he clearly said in the Torah are ridiculous, and if I believed in the Bible I would regard them as blasphemy.

 

I'm not interested in your theology Bhim. Please answer with regard to your definition of success. I think that will tell us a lot.

[JamesG]

 

back to my point earlier End3 what is the conclusion you draw upon your parallel that you have conceived?

Truthfully James, I don't know that I have a conclusion other than I find it interesting that the methods are the same.  I find it interesting regardless of how silly people find it, that Moses was said to glow after being in the presence of a presumed higher energy....God.  Many analytical methods can be covered there.  I find it interesting that a stick was used to purify the water for the Israelites.....in my mind suggesting celluostic water purification.  And didn't the guy that was touting using water to power his car back in the 80's get his idea from the Bible?

 

And, I was actually reading about the standard model the other day and I think I could make a parallel case for it as well given a little time and effort.  I was drinking and had shut the website down because it seemed so obvious.

 

Ok so all this was for naught then. I am sorry End3 but after all that has been said and done and seeing as this went absolutely n-o-w-h-e-r-e when pressed. I am not granting you anymore of your previous assertions. All you have done is wrongly taken terminology and misapplied it to something theological/supernatural. I cant believe we are going back to moses glowng and celluostic water purification. Moses didn't exist to start and secondly a stick cannot be used to purify water that's not even how CWP works.  If moses had his atoms so excited that he was glowing he would have been killed from it even if he did exist. Your analytical chemistry model for Jesus is not even compatible with the bible it really just is not so lets not even make that parallel. If you are determined to cling to your assertions then your better off converting to Mormonism or creating your own religion. If you continue to falsely co-opt terminology into your dead end arguments you will continue to get laughed at. I am not saying this to offend you but keep you honest with yourself. If Christians don't agree with you and Atheists don't agree with you and Agnostics don't agree with you something is probably wrong with your vision of Christianity.

 

Which brings me full circle to my original question of finding an example of genuine love that can only be explained using god. so 5 pages later and a lot of back and forth I guess I got my answer of no. where was the mud jumping that you suggested earlier? Or was that just a ploy to get confirmation on your false assertions and not actually a serious suggestion of discussion?

[Guest end3]

 

 

back to my point earlier End3 what is the conclusion you draw upon your parallel that you have conceived?

Truthfully James, I don't know that I have a conclusion other than I find it interesting that the methods are the same.  I find it interesting regardless of how silly people find it, that Moses was said to glow after being in the presence of a presumed higher energy....God.  Many analytical methods can be covered there.  I find it interesting that a stick was used to purify the water for the Israelites.....in my mind suggesting celluostic water purification.  And didn't the guy that was touting using water to power his car back in the 80's get his idea from the Bible?

 

And, I was actually reading about the standard model the other day and I think I could make a parallel case for it as well given a little time and effort.  I was drinking and had shut the website down because it seemed so obvious.

 

Ok so all this was for naught then. I am sorry End3 but after all that has been said and done and seeing as this went absolutely n-o-w-h-e-r-e when pressed. I am not granting you anymore of your previous assertions. All you have done is wrongly taken terminology and misapplied it to something theological/supernatural. I cant believe we are going back to moses glowng and celluostic water purification. Moses didn't exist to start and secondly a stick cannot be used to purify water that's not even how CWP works.  If moses had his atoms so excited that he was glowing he would have been killed from it even if he did exist. Your analytical chemistry model for Jesus is not even compatible with the bible it really just is not so lets not even make that parallel. If you are determined to cling to your assertions then your better off converting to Mormonism or creating your own religion. If you continue to falsely co-opt terminology into your dead end arguments you will continue to get laughed at. I am not saying this to offend you but keep you honest with yourself. If Christians don't agree with you and Atheists don't agree with you and Agnostics don't agree with you something is probably wrong with your vision of Christianity.

 

Which brings me full circle to my original question of finding an example of genuine love that can only be explained using god. so 5 pages later and a lot of back and forth I guess I got my answer of no. where was the mud jumping that you suggested earlier? Or was that just a ploy to get confirmation on your false assertions and not actually a serious suggestion of discussion?

 

Sure, it all goes somewhere James.  We don't, nor does science always get the entire picture at once.  The Bible talks about differnent types of love,  What I was witnessing with the soldiers could be one type over the other.  I didn't ask you to grant me anything, but after enough effort, we determined it was a parallel.  Again, this doesn't mean the whole answer would reveal itself because James want's it to.   

 

To your discounting of my other examples.  Just like the one we just discussed, they are types, potential parallels, correlations.  Moses glowing vs dying is similar to Christ being an IS, but we don't actually canabalize Jesus. 

[RankStranger]

 

 

Bhim, I mean this with all sincerity.  You sir, are lost.  Best I can tell, you scoff at those that build your toilet, your table, your house, yet you couldn't build any one yourself regardless of your articulate self-promotion.  What's the point of the education Bhim if there is no contribution to humanity.  What is your culture's definition of success?

While we're at it, I also couldn't operate a jackhammer.  Doesn't mean I want to go dig ditches at night during a Minnesota winter.

 

 

Please no Bhim, please no.  There is no God given chance in this universe that I would wish to adopt ANY perspective you hold.

 

Edit:  I guess you haven't been paying attention.

 

So let me get this straight: you don't want to hold the same opinion as me on anything?  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

 

Prove your last statement oh educated one.

 

Certainly a phd candidate could do so Bhim

 

Your god is a false messiah and thus unable to save anyone.  Deuteronomy 13:1-4 requires any prophet to keep the Law, other passages (e.g. Exodus 12:14) state that the Law remains in effect forever, yet evangelicals eat pork sausage and cling to Mark 7:19 along with intellectual gymnastics to justify themselves.  The fact that evangelicals feel confident in eating at McDonald's should make it patently obvious that Jesus is no messiah.  Your arguments about why God didn't mean what he clearly said in the Torah are ridiculous, and if I believed in the Bible I would regard them as blasphemy.

 

I'm not interested in your theology Bhim. Please answer with regard to your definition of success. I think that will tell us a lot.

 

 

And the Clash of the Cultures continues!  Redneck vs. Hindu throw-down.  TONIGHT.

 

You just be thankful, Bhim, that you ain't on End's home turf.  I mean if this was a contest of 4-wheelin', beer-drinkin, or wrestlin' in the dirt you might just be over-matched.  But seeings how this is a battle of rhetoric with a bunch of Exchristians in the peanut gallery... I think End may have bit off more than he can chew here. Not that he'll see or admit that himself.

 

Just to throw another wrench into the works:  End3 is all about 'Personal Responsibility'- he throws that around in defense of pretty much anything the Republicans want to sell.  And he's a shining example of it himself.  That money that End makes that he's so proud of?  He inherited it.  And since he's squandering it on a failing business, he seems to think this means he 'worked for it'.  So here we have a guy who didn't even bother to finish high school, and is squandering his inheritance on a failing business since he's too good to get an education and a real job.  And he's holding himself up as an example of success.

 

Why don't poor people just inherit more money?

 

Sadly this is all too typical of my fellow rednecks.  My ridiculous culture is fucking ENTHRALLED by AM radio talk-shows, FoxNews, and pretty much anybody who waves a flag and talks about Jesus.  We'll happily vote to send our sons and brothers off to die in pointless wars, cut our own wages, redistribute our money to the banks, fight against regulations that would improve health and safety... if only the people leading us around by the nose throw out a little Jesus, America, and Red Meat.  And leading the charge are guys like End- I'd bet he's a goddamn pillar of his community.  Give a redneck a little money (and I do mean GIVE in End's case), and he suddenly thinks he's Atlas holding the world on his back.  You'll never find a man more self-congratulatory and easily led than a redneck with a little money he's afraid to lose.  He'll eagerly sell his childrens' future if you talk a little Jesus and promise to keep those dirty brown people from taking his money.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

Bhim, I mean this with all sincerity.  You sir, are lost.  Best I can tell, you scoff at those that build your toilet, your table, your house, yet you couldn't build any one yourself regardless of your articulate self-promotion.  What's the point of the education Bhim if there is no contribution to humanity.  What is your culture's definition of success?

While we're at it, I also couldn't operate a jackhammer.  Doesn't mean I want to go dig ditches at night during a Minnesota winter.

 

 

Please no Bhim, please no.  There is no God given chance in this universe that I would wish to adopt ANY perspective you hold.

 

Edit:  I guess you haven't been paying attention.

 

So let me get this straight: you don't want to hold the same opinion as me on anything?  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

 

Prove your last statement oh educated one.

 

Certainly a phd candidate could do so Bhim

 

Your god is a false messiah and thus unable to save anyone.  Deuteronomy 13:1-4 requires any prophet to keep the Law, other passages (e.g. Exodus 12:14) state that the Law remains in effect forever, yet evangelicals eat pork sausage and cling to Mark 7:19 along with intellectual gymnastics to justify themselves.  The fact that evangelicals feel confident in eating at McDonald's should make it patently obvious that Jesus is no messiah.  Your arguments about why God didn't mean what he clearly said in the Torah are ridiculous, and if I believed in the Bible I would regard them as blasphemy.

 

I'm not interested in your theology Bhim. Please answer with regard to your definition of success. I think that will tell us a lot.

 

 

And the Clash of the Cultures continues!  Redneck vs. Hindu throw-down.  TONIGHT.

 

You just be thankful, Bhim, that you ain't on End's home turf.  I mean if this was a contest of 4-wheelin', beer-drinkin, or wrestlin' in the dirt you might just be over-matched.  But seeings how this is a battle of rhetoric with a bunch of Exchristians in the peanut gallery... I think End may have bit off more than he can chew here. Not that he'll see or admit that himself.

 

Just to throw another wrench into the works:  End3 is all about 'Personal Responsibility'- he throws that around in defense of pretty much anything the Republicans want to sell.  And he's a shining example of it himself.  That money that End makes that he's so proud of?  He inherited it.  And since he's squandering it on a failing business, he seems to think this means he 'worked for it'.  So here we have a guy who didn't even bother to finish high school, and is squandering his inheritance on a failing business since he's too good to get an education and a real job.  And he's holding himself up as an example of success.

 

Why don't poor people just inherit more money?

 

Sadly this is all too typical of my fellow rednecks.  My ridiculous culture is fucking ENTHRALLED by AM radio talk-shows, FoxNews, and pretty much anybody who waves a flag and talks about Jesus.  We'll happily vote to send our sons and brothers off to die in pointless wars, cut our own wages, redistribute our money to the banks, fight against regulations that would improve health and safety... if only the people leading us around by the nose throw out a little Jesus, America, and Red Meat.  And leading the charge are guys like End- I'd bet he's a goddamn pillar of his community.  Give a redneck a little money (and I do mean GIVE in End's case), and he suddenly thinks he's Atlas holding the world on his back.  You'll never find a man more self-congratulatory and easily led than a redneck with a little money he's afraid to lose.  He'll eagerly sell his childrens' future if you talk a little Jesus and promise to keep those dirty brown people from taking his money.

 

You misspeak brother.  My business is not failing, but growing with the dreaded oilfield.  Did I tell you Monsanto may be involved.  It's a big conspiracy to put you in your cubicles where you belong and take away all of your freedom.......freedom that you have never recognized nor are likely to.  We use people like Bhim as pawns.

 

My yet to inherit inheritance was my collateral.  Please get your facts straight. 

[RankStranger]

I'm glad to hear you're not failing, End. Now please show some goddamn personal responsibility and get yourself some liability insurance.

[Guest end3]

I'm glad to hear you're not failing, End. Now please show some goddamn personal responsibility and get yourself some liability insurance.

Yeah, I ran into a large oil company that requires me to get "insuranced up".  Matter of fact, they require a vendor to spend 700 bucks to join a database so they may access the potential vendor's insurance, etc.

[RankStranger]

 

I'm glad to hear you're not failing, End. Now please show some goddamn personal responsibility and get yourself some liability insurance.

 

Yeah, I ran into a large oil company that requires me to get "insuranced up". Matter of fact, they require a vendor to spend 700 bucks to join a database so they may access the potential vendor's insurance, etc.

I'm glad to hear it End. Seriously, I don't begrudge you your success - such as it is - except when you use it against your fellow man.

 

Sounds to me like you're indirectly getting in on a government subsidized gravy-train (Monsanto, oil industry). That IS a damn good way to make a living. Were it not for corporate welfare and impenetrable, competition-stifling regulations - my own job probably wouldn't exist. I'd be posting on my own time right now. Or gawd forbid WORKING for an honest living like I used to do for half the pay.

[Guest end3]

 

 

I'm glad to hear you're not failing, End. Now please show some goddamn personal responsibility and get yourself some liability insurance.

Yeah, I ran into a large oil company that requires me to get "insuranced up". Matter of fact, they require a vendor to spend 700 bucks to join a database so they may access the potential vendor's insurance, etc.

I'm glad to hear it End. Seriously, I don't begrudge you your success - such as it is - except when you use it against your fellow man.

 

Sounds to me like you're indirectly getting in on a government subsidized gravy-train (Monsanto, oil industry). That IS a damn good way to make a living. Were it not for corporate welfare and impenetrable, competition-stifling regulations - my own job probably wouldn't exist. I'd be posting on my own time right now. Or gawd forbid WORKING for an honest living like I used to do for half the pay.

 

That's why I asked him his definition of success.  There is little value in making money if you don't use it in the right manner.  He seems to put more emphasis on the process as a gauge.  Oh, and you have to graduate high school or else you are doomed to ignorance and poverty.  If you went to college, you would be a better human.  He's a young man obviously.

[JamesG]

"Sure, it all goes somewhere James.  We don't, nor does science always get the entire picture at once.  The Bible talks about differnent types of love,  What I was witnessing with the soldiers could be one type over the other.  I didn't ask you to grant me anything, but after enough effort, we determined it was a parallel.  Again, this doesn't mean the whole answer would reveal itself because James want's it to.   

 

To your discounting of my other examples.  Just like the one we just discussed, they are types, potential parallels, correlations.  Moses glowing vs dying is similar to Christ being an IS, but we don't actually canabalize Jesus."

 

we did not determine it is a parallel I wanted to see where you were going with your train of thought it is no more a parallel than 52/0 = infinity=god you are trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole it didn't fit so you hit it with a sledge hammer until you broke the square hole and jammed the round peg into it. The thing that bugs me most is you don't have a foundation in the bible for all of this let alone science. It is frankly just baffling.

 

As for me asking for answers revealed. I wasn't I wanted to know where you were going with this that's all I got my answer and it is a dead end why even bother force feeding that square hole round pegs man why?!?!?! not  trying to rant here just reallllly disappointed I thought you were actually going somewhere with all of this.

[Guest end3]

"

 

I stated it only in Christian terms thinking you had the scientific understanding already.

 

Not a big deal about the analogy, just facinated that the parallel exists.   Again, I think we could use the process as evidence just as we use it in science, but we have no understanding of "spirtual quantification".

 

I get the scientific understanding of it and I get the Christian terminology I am granting that you are using them correctly. Aside from there is a parallel what are you trying to point out? I can draw the same parallel to FSM/Hindu gods etc. please continue and explain otherwise it is all pointless if there is nothing else to elaborate other than a parallel.

So what was this, a canard?