Guest end3 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 If you can only interact with people by being an asshole then that is the response you will get from me i can be an asshole. So you want to throw some personal jabs at each other and go get a beer fine lets do that. I garuntee you tiny pricked fucktard i can get a lot more personal and a lot more assholish than you could dream of so its your choice we can either be civil or i can be an asshole what do you want? I would have chosen "broke dick cull", so see, we are not that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 It doesnt matter one bit how long i have or have not been here. You in your thousands of posts still are incapable of clearly illusrrating in prose the bullshit correlation between soldiers coming home from a fucked up situation to gods genuine love. Please illustrate this to me because so far i have only seen gods divine bullshit. Ok, let me try. I define God, or an aspect thereof, as the result of two entities which are able to form a bond through mutual "sacrifice" so that each are known to the other as Christ is known to the Father. Moving to the example I cited. the resulting joy, excitement, unity, love, etc. witnessed in the soldier's reunion would be and example in my mind of two entities uniting through sacrifice, resulting in joy, Love, God. And fwiw, I think it is paralled in nature. I get where you are coming fron end. however this is only looking at things on a surface level imo. If you dig deeper past the momentary joy that sacrifice corrupts and damages the love. It does not add to it nor does it bring people closer. That sacrifice is a wedge and if overcome a painful reminder of the past. Going by your definition this god cannot exist but in a temporal explosive state that is hurtfull to all parties involved. Thisgod is a god of pain and the closeness one feels in that ephemoral moment is just a tease to make their lives all the more painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I don't know because I feel if two entities mutually sacrificed, then all you have is momentary joy. By default everything is changing. Let me ask you, what DOES add or bring people closer if not sacrifice/grace to each other's reality? I see the sacrifice as a reminder of love, not a wedge. Children often write in retrospect about teachers and parents as a good thing at graduation. I would think there is even joy expressed on behalf of the teachers and parents in watching the child progress. If it is a tease, it is a tease that I strive to make more permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I don't know because I feel if two entities mutually sacrificed, then all you have is momentary joy. By default everything is changing. Let me ask you, what DOES add or bring people closer if not sacrifice/grace to each other's reality? I see the sacrifice as a reminder of love, not a wedge. Children often write in retrospect about teachers and parents as a good thing at graduation. I would think there is even joy expressed on behalf of the teachers and parents in watching the child progress. If it is a tease, it is a tease that I strive to make more permanent. It's a bit different when someone pushes you into a hole and then sacrifices themselves to save you from the hole they pushed you into. That is basically what I interpret the god of the Bible doing, although his sacrifice is basically the equivalent of a person stabbing themselves multiple times before tossing a rope into the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Certainly what I have said point to Jesus. Sacrifice on his part = Love = God. If you were saddled with the "hellish" existence you could imagine and someone said follow me and I will take it away, then I doubt you would choose otherwise. Obi Wan Kenobi died to save the whole universe. Doesn't that make Obi Wan more God then Jesus? This is the problem with using the story as evidence for God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Doesn't the Bible say it's a test? We are either on one side or another. If you choose perfect morality then by default you have to choose God. Otherwise you are claiming you have more wisdom than God. And in doing so, you are actively choosing human nature over an alternative. Perfect human nature would likely be hell. Your choice. You can be on your own side and not choose god. Some people do the right thing because they want to and they like to. I am not claiming I have more wisdom than god because there is no god. God is a construct I was taught when a child that has no proof. I am choosing my own nature, and I can tell you it is not even slightly self seeking. I sacrifice because I care about people, sometimes more than I care about myself. Most christians dont do that because no matter what they think they are worshipping, it is really their own ego. I watched it for 36 years. What a fucking waste of my time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Doesn't the Bible say it's a test? We are either on one side or another. If you choose perfect morality then by default you have to choose God. Otherwise you are claiming you have more wisdom than God. And in doing so, you are actively choosing human nature over an alternative. Perfect human nature would likely be hell. Your choice. You can be on your own side and not choose god. Some people do the right thing because they want to and they like to. I am not claiming I have more wisdom than god because there is no god. God is a construct I was taught when a child that has no proof. I am choosing my own nature, and I can tell you it is not even slightly self seeking. I sacrifice because I care about people, sometimes more than I care about myself. Most christians dont do that because no matter what they think they are worshipping, it is really their own ego. I watched it for 36 years. What a fucking waste of my time. Why would it be a waste of your time? There seem to be a myriad of levels to understanding and who of us has a lock on "waste of time"? Isn't it really a battle with ego, and understanding ego? Why would it be unreasonable to worship some new level of understanding? Perhaps there are people out there that can SPECULATE to your assertions, but I'm pretty sure I don't buy them at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I don't know because I feel if two entities mutually sacrificed, then all you have is momentary joy. By default everything is changing. Let me ask you, what DOES add or bring people closer if not sacrifice/grace to each other's reality? I see the sacrifice as a reminder of love, not a wedge. Children often write in retrospect about teachers and parents as a good thing at graduation. I would think there is even joy expressed on behalf of the teachers and parents in watching the child progress. If it is a tease, it is a tease that I strive to make more permanent. It's a bit different when someone pushes you into a hole and then sacrifices themselves to save you from the hole they pushed you into. That is basically what I interpret the god of the Bible doing, although his sacrifice is basically the equivalent of a person stabbing themselves multiple times before tossing a rope into the hole. Good question. I will have to defer atm. My mind goes initially to how would the invention ultimately be independent of the inventor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I don't know because I feel if two entities mutually sacrificed, then all you have is momentary joy. By default everything is changing. Let me ask you, what DOES add or bring people closer if not sacrifice/grace to each other's reality? I see the sacrifice as a reminder of love, not a wedge. Children often write in retrospect about teachers and parents as a good thing at graduation. I would think there is even joy expressed on behalf of the teachers and parents in watching the child progress. If it is a tease, it is a tease that I strive to make more permanent. Ultimately it depends on the sacrifice in question since that is a loaded and generalized word. There are tons of things that bring us closer together other than sacrifice. Exploring and navigating the complicated world of life with a loved one, Sexual intercourse, reaching out to help others, apologies, forgiveness, laughter, encouragement, support both physical and emotional, teaching, being taught, sharing, opening up your inner most protected secrets to others. if sacrifice is the only way to reach someone then you devalue the human experience. what does this Children often write in retrospect about teachers and parents as a good thing at graduation. I would think there is even joy expressed on behalf of the teachers and parents in watching the child progress have to do with this I see the sacrifice as a reminder of love, not a wedge but this brings me back to the wedge what soldiers and their families sacrifice puts a weight on their relationship that must be carried in order to carry on. this weight may temporarily bring you closer however it does not go away they have to carry it with them wherever they go and it constantly affects their lives as time goes on it becomes a burden not a reminder of love. A tease is just that it can never be permanent the fact that you try to make it so will set you up for pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I don't know because I feel if two entities mutually sacrificed, then all you have is momentary joy. By default everything is changing. Let me ask you, what DOES add or bring people closer if not sacrifice/grace to each other's reality? I see the sacrifice as a reminder of love, not a wedge. Children often write in retrospect about teachers and parents as a good thing at graduation. I would think there is even joy expressed on behalf of the teachers and parents in watching the child progress. If it is a tease, it is a tease that I strive to make more permanent. It's a bit different when someone pushes you into a hole and then sacrifices themselves to save you from the hole they pushed you into. That is basically what I interpret the god of the Bible doing, although his sacrifice is basically the equivalent of a person stabbing themselves multiple times before tossing a rope into the hole. Good question. I will have to defer atm. My mind goes initially to how would the invention ultimately be independent of the inventor. end3, If you can't answer how Jesus' sacrifice (I'll Be Back) is different than the soldier's (I might not be back. Ever.), then you don't have the proper point of view to even be taken seriously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Bhim, if you were truely as smart as I thought you were, you wouldn't be threatened by a highschool dropout. You are exhibiting no empathy nor character nor modeling nor help that I gather. So what was it you wished to do with your existance? Additionally, when you have to go to this type deconstruction, you've pretty much lost. Quoting ALI, "I am the greatest of ALLLL TIME"....lol. Well I'm not particularly interested in how smart you think I am. But as long as you brought it up, the vast disparity in our levels of education suggests to me that not a lot of others would care about your assessment of my intelligence either. What I am interested in is having discussions about Christianity with Christians who will at least address the points I make. Your posts don't even seem to logically follow from what I say to you. Your random comments about empathy, character, and modeling are a case in point. Please let me know if you have anything meaningful to say regarding my question of why I should be persuaded to believe in Jesus. I'm not too interested in your non sequiturs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Doesn't the Bible say it's a test? We are either on one side or another. If you choose perfect morality then by default you have to choose God. Otherwise you are claiming you have more wisdom than God. And in doing so, you are actively choosing human nature over an alternative. Perfect human nature would likely be hell. Your choice. You can be on your own side and not choose god. Some people do the right thing because they want to and they like to. I am not claiming I have more wisdom than god because there is no god. God is a construct I was taught when a child that has no proof. I am choosing my own nature, and I can tell you it is not even slightly self seeking. I sacrifice because I care about people, sometimes more than I care about myself. Most christians dont do that because no matter what they think they are worshipping, it is really their own ego. I watched it for 36 years. What a fucking waste of my time. Why would it be a waste of your time? There seem to be a myriad of levels to understanding and who of us has a lock on "waste of time"? Isn't it really a battle with ego, and understanding ego? Why would it be unreasonable to worship some new level of understanding? Perhaps there are people out there that can SPECULATE to your assertions, but I'm pretty sure I don't buy them at this point. It was a waste of time because I expected christians to change over time, to be more of god and less of themselves. I never saw it. Nice people stayed nice, shitty people stayed shitty. I spent my whole life waiting for the stuff the bible said would happen to actually happen. It never did. I saw no love any greater than what you would find in the general population. I saw a lot of sucking up, jockeying for position, callousness, meaness, dishonesty. I did not see a lot of the fruit of the spirit. In short, in all the time I was a christian I saw nothing supernatural going on. If it is a battle with ego, christianity lost it a long time ago. Maybe where you live people still take christians seriously, but here people know they are mostly full of shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I didn't read the whole thread because it started sounding like this: blah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blah, blah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blahblah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blahblah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blah, blah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blahblah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blah whatever... There is a huge difference between real love and protecting one's territory [very primitive but understandable behavior] (war) usually for old rich politicians and corporate moguls who won't tell you the real reason you are fighting anyway (propaganda) (hint: it's to protect their economic interests) so, I guess I am a moron for figuring that out. Is it nice to see families reunited.. you bet.. that's awesome... it's also evolutionary in a sense - we are hardwired to protect our young.. or anything that looks like a baby actually.. pekinese dogs, cats, disney characters. Is there genuine affection and care.. yes.. of course. But... REAL love is none of those things, real love is when anothers' well-being is as important or more so than your own... even if that means realizing YOU are not the best person for that other, or supporting them in decisions they make for themselves that you disagree with. It's enhancing and encouraging, but not enabling. It's a deep respect for another's autonomy and choices. It's the ability to care for another in spite of differences in culture, opinion and choices, lifestyles, etc... It's putting your ego needs aside, your selfishness and fears and allowing another to be who they are, and honoring that. Namaste is the closest word I can think of to express that... "I honor the divine in you". However you define divine.. for me it's the sacredness of individuality and humanity. This kind of love is above religion, creed, race or anything... it's the highest virtue we can express as humans. It can be found in every country, every creed, every religion or non-religion.. though it is very rare. just my 2 cents 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 5, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2013 End3 needs a little Viking love from time to time. He hasn't had it lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 End3 needs a little Viking love from time to time. He hasn't had it lately. Death by Snu-Snu! http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/yttx80/futurama-death-by-snu-snu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Ravenstar: Your wit and wisdom are uncanny. I know I repeat myself, but you really do have a lot going for you. Keep posting. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 End3: It seems to me that every post you make starts with the presumption that the god of the bible is real. If that were true there would be no ex-christians. But that is the very issue involved. Start with solving that for us . bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Gheeze, y'all must be bored to pull a thread and argue with me. But hey, I enjoy it, and enjoy y'all.....misguided though you all are...lol. Bill, where do I start sir. Apparently you want evidence. Ok, here's another feeble attempt in everyone's collective eyes here, but I got nothing but time. Let's look at the manifestation of our works.....let's say a watchmaker. Even with archeology I assume we look at the "stuff" to understand the history. So before I move on in giddy anticipation, can we agree here? Can we assume that the stuff from the long ago dead people made the dead people real? Could we assume that we could look at creation as assume there was a creator? So if I have something that is a latter day discovery of modern man, of some thing historic humanity wrote about relating to a specific quality of God and his manifestation, why would we discard this as factual evidence? Bhim holds himself above everyone here....Bhim, tell us why this part of my discussion would be invalid. Hell, it may be, but I would like to know as well.....so go man go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 End3 needs a little Viking love from time to time. He hasn't had it lately. The sum of humanity with a v jay jay has less than good motivations in my mind atm, so I will pass thanks. But I got your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I didn't read the whole thread because it started sounding like this: blah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blah, blah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blahblah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blahblah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blah, blah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blahblah, blah, bible, blah, blah, god, blah whatever... There is a huge difference between real love and protecting one's territory [very primitive but understandable behavior] (war) usually for old rich politicians and corporate moguls who won't tell you the real reason you are fighting anyway (propaganda) (hint: it's to protect their economic interests) so, I guess I am a moron for figuring that out. Is it nice to see families reunited.. you bet.. that's awesome... it's also evolutionary in a sense - we are hardwired to protect our young.. or anything that looks like a baby actually.. pekinese dogs, cats, disney characters. Is there genuine affection and care.. yes.. of course. But... REAL love is none of those things, real love is when anothers' well-being is as important or more so than your own... even if that means realizing YOU are not the best person for that other, or supporting them in decisions they make for themselves that you disagree with. It's enhancing and encouraging, but not enabling. It's a deep respect for another's autonomy and choices. It's the ability to care for another in spite of differences in culture, opinion and choices, lifestyles, etc... It's putting your ego needs aside, your selfishness and fears and allowing another to be who they are, and honoring that. Namaste is the closest word I can think of to express that... "I honor the divine in you". However you define divine.. for me it's the sacredness of individuality and humanity. This kind of love is above religion, creed, race or anything... it's the highest virtue we can express as humans. It can be found in every country, every creed, every religion or non-religion.. though it is very rare. just my 2 cents Can you sense levels of love? Certainly you can. You just described such. I think that I was trying to describe a genuine, non-adulterated level, as a function of sacrifice.....equating this to Christ's sacrifice. What did I miss babe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Could we assume that we could look at creation as assume there was a creator? Of course you can assume. That is what faith is. You assume without evidence. As for being an actual creator . . . our planet, our star, our galaxy were created by giant exploding stars and the resulting singularities. Right now you are in orbit around a super massive back hole. It determines where you will go in the big picture. Gravity is the all reaching force that controls our universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Could we assume that we could look at creation as assume there was a creator? Of course you can assume. That is what faith is. You assume without evidence. As for being an actual creator . . . our planet, our star, our galaxy were created by giant exploding stars and the resulting singularities. Right now you are in orbit around a super massive back hole. It determines where you will go in the big picture. Gravity is the all reaching force that controls our universe. No, no, no, in my mind you already jumped over my point. Why should we be able to dismiss a creator if we have creation as evidence? Edit: Creation is the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Could we assume that we could look at creation as assume there was a creator? Of course you can assume. That is what faith is. You assume without evidence. As for being an actual creator . . . our planet, our star, our galaxy were created by giant exploding stars and the resulting singularities. Right now you are in orbit around a super massive back hole. It determines where you will go in the big picture. Gravity is the all reaching force that controls our universe. No, no, no, in my mind you already jumped over my point. Why should we be able to dismiss a creator if we have creation as evidence? Edit: Creation is the evidence. It isn't. You assume the universe is evidence in your leap of faith. That is why you call the universe "creation". You do this because Paul told you to do it. It's in Christian propaganda because it's an effective brainwashing tool. If you look at Earth objectively there is no obvious purpose. Animals try to live and pass on their DNA but it's simply an exercise done for the sake of the exercise. Look at our star system, our galaxy, our universe and it's the same thing - no obvious purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 No, if you look at Earth objectively, I am proposing that we see similarities to Spiritual purpose. And the kicker. When I try to describe these to people here, there are near the complete sum of you that don't know the field to which I describe similarities. So Bhim, we are going to talk analytical chemistry here. Word up dude. You in or out? It's wonderfully simple with respect to elementary particle physics. You should know this by heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 No, if you look at Earth objectively, I am proposing that we see similarities to Spiritual purpose. And the kicker. When I try to describe these to people here, there are near the complete sum of you that don't know the field to which I describe similarities. There might not be Spiritual purpose. If it exists then there is no way to measure it. If you look at Earth and see similarity to Spiritual purpose then you are being the opposite of objective. You are reading your faith into everything; using faith as a filter. The reason most people don't have your personal take on religion is that they don't have your brain. Religion is as personalized as a fingerprint as each person adds or ignores whatever bit or private interpretation makes sense to them. However I was right about our universe having no observable purpose. Millions of people have wondered why we are here and after pondering it for perhaps years they usually come up with their very own abstract answer which might have been made up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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