Free Will

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On the contrary, there is evidence for the veracity of the Bible. A good source for this is Josh McDowell's book The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict. By a former atheist that set out to disprove the Bible. He ended up becoming a christian because everything he found pointed to the fact that the Bible is indeed truth. 

In response to Florduh Prayer is not a waste of breath. God reserves the right to answer prayer with a yes or no answer whichever be His will. Since we as humans do not know what His response will be we ask so that we may be shown His will. Also, that which I believe as truth I state as truth.

 

I also have a milk jug at the house that reserves the right to answer prayer with a "yes" or "no".  The milk jug can even answer prayer with "wait", and since it has that ability and your god doesn't, I proclaim my milk jug to be more powerful than your god.  Moreover, there's a picture of a little girl who has been missing since February 3, 2011 on the side of my milk jug; what has your god done for poor little Lucinda May, last seen walking home from school?

 

TrueBeliever, you present yourself as a nice, decent sort, without an agenda.  Compared to some of the other believers who visit this website, that's certainly a breath of fetid air.  I don't want to speak for anyone else here, but I can tell you that I've heard the arguments you've presented so far since the disco era and I have rejected them.  I will also say that it is unlikely that you can produce a single argument that I haven't heard, examined, used on someone else (remember, I used to be just like you), and ultimately rejected.  You will probably find that most people here would say the same about themselves.  I know you feel compelled to witness; the Great Commission is a direct order from headquarters.  Unfortunately, you've found yourself on a forum where most people already know what you have to say.  Many of them know it even better than you.  I'd offer this cousel: If you're going to stick around (and I hope you will), listen more than you speak, seek more to understand than to be understood, play nice, and above all, put on the thickest skin you can find.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 I am not a member of any religion, only a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 

 

 

Those silly religious Christians, they do stuff like:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

But people who actually have a relationship with Jesus:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

 

How do you tell them apart? I certainly don't see a difference.

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

 I am not a member of any religion, only a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 

 

 

Those silly religious Christians, they do stuff like:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

But people who actually have a relationship with Jesus:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

 

How do you tell them apart? I certainly don't see a difference.

 

Yes, but those with a relationship tend not to be such Bible thumpers. I will say that there are those who claim they have a relationship and continue to beat down every non-christian they come in contact with. This is not our job as christians, we are first and foremost to love all people.

James 1:27 ^"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." I am only religious in this manner and none other. In fact, this is the only time the Bible ever speaks of religion. The religion that you speak of is nowhere found in the Bible. Therefore, I have removed myself from that form of religion. I simply believe Jesus Christ and Him crucified, dead and buried then on the third day He rose from the dead and after 40 days here on the earth He ascended into heaven where He sits at the right Hand of God ruling and reigning. I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

[centauri]

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

 I am not a member of any religion, only a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 

 

 

Those silly religious Christians, they do stuff like:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

But people who actually have a relationship with Jesus:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

 

How do you tell them apart? I certainly don't see a difference.

 

Yes, but those with a relationship tend not to be such Bible thumpers. I will say that there are those who claim they have a relationship and continue to beat down every non-christian they come in contact with. This is not our job as christians, we are first and foremost to love all people.

James 1:27 ^"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." I am only religious in this manner and none other. In fact, this is the only time the Bible ever speaks of religion. The religion that you speak of is nowhere found in the Bible. Therefore, I have removed myself from that form of religion. I simply believe Jesus Christ and Him crucified, dead and buried then on the third day He rose from the dead and after 40 days here on the earth He ascended into heaven where He sits at the right Hand of God ruling and reigning. I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

 

If you were a member of a religion then we would expect you to quote the Bible and list your most cherished doctrine.  Lucky for us you are in a relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

 

(Have you ever wondered why people who claim to be Jesus Christ are super weird but people who claim the be in a relationship with Jesus Christ are not weird?)

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

 

 I am not a member of any religion, only a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 

 

 

Those silly religious Christians, they do stuff like:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

But people who actually have a relationship with Jesus:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

 

How do you tell them apart? I certainly don't see a difference.

 

Yes, but those with a relationship tend not to be such Bible thumpers. I will say that there are those who claim they have a relationship and continue to beat down every non-christian they come in contact with. This is not our job as christians, we are first and foremost to love all people.

James 1:27 ^"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." I am only religious in this manner and none other. In fact, this is the only time the Bible ever speaks of religion. The religion that you speak of is nowhere found in the Bible. Therefore, I have removed myself from that form of religion. I simply believe Jesus Christ and Him crucified, dead and buried then on the third day He rose from the dead and after 40 days here on the earth He ascended into heaven where He sits at the right Hand of God ruling and reigning. I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

 

So, the difference is that religious Christians are controlling hypocrites, but Christians with a real relationship with Yahweh/Jesus are nice, decent people who don't try to shove Jesus down everyone's throats?

 

Well if you're not one of the "religious Christians", then that's good, but it doesn't change anything about the Bible or the god that you're trying to sell.

 

I have come to what I think is probably the truth, regarding the Bible and Christianity. That truth is that the Bible is not a valuable source for morality. Even if the Bible was 100% accurate in regards to history, that wouldn't change anything. The god of the Bible would still be a monster and prayer would still be pointless, because if that god exists, he already planned long ago who was going to go to Hell and who was not. He already planned who would be blessed and who would be cursed.

 

You can pretend that the Bible teaches you how to be a moral person and you can pretend that the "God is Love" stuff is true, but it's not. The Bible teaches you to be totally obedient to a dictator and to never doubt his decisions or instructions, regardless of how gruesome and disturbing those decisions and instructions appear to be.

[Ravenstar]

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

 

A 6 day creation is historically accurate?

A global flood is historically accurate?

A mud man and a rib woman as the first two human beings, is historically accurate?

 

These things are true history?

 

Ok.

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

 

A 6 day creation is historically accurate?

A global flood is historically accurate?

A mud man and a rib woman as the first two human beings, is historically accurate?

 

These things are true history?

 

Ok.

 

No, those things take an element of faith to believe. I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith. Who can prove there position of how the world came about? I know from other posts of yours that you believe in the multiverse theory, but can you prove it as fact? That would be impossible because you would then have to be able to ALL the outcomes of of every single universe.  This is impossible because there are an infinite number of possibilities and you my friend, as all of us do, have a finite life. So, it will always be a theory. 

[Storm]

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

Whether or not the bible is historically accurate or not proves nothing. Numerous fictional books are written using factual, actually existing historical places and situations. This is by no means a testament that they are in any way true. The bible was written by a bunch of people you don't know, tells stories about events that likely didn't happen, or those events are simply exaggerated stories of possibly true events. You do realize that the majority of the books written in the bible were not written in real time, but were, in fact written many years after the events and stories allegedly occurred. Just on a surface level, looking at the bible from this perspective should be enough to question its veracity. Secondly, since the bible was written by men we do not know, I see no difference in whether a group of men throughout history wrote a bunch of stories than if a group of men from my city who were Christians decided to write a bunch of stories about how god influenced their lives and we decided to create a whole book about these stories, (and then decided by several prominent scholarly Christian people in our era to be legitimately from god), then told to everyone that this collection of stories is god's divine word and we should change our whole lives and live based on what is written in it. If a group of people did that this year, no one would be willing to accept that it was god's word, but we are ok with accepting basically the same situation with the bible? Some of the things I believed as a Christian make absolutely no sense to me now. When you take off the rose-colored glasses of christianity and look at it from a neutral standpoint, there is no way that you can possibly see it for the same things you do as a Christian. It  just isn't possible. I would suspect that you have no issue with dismissing the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or the Book of Mormon because they have no value to you, but with the same measure you likely dismiss them as "God Inspired", we also do with the bible and, subsequently, christianity. It doesn't really take a lot of research to find that the bible isn't all its cracked up to be. I challenge you to look objectively at the things posted here in this forum. So many people have been heartbroken and had their lives taken from (literally and figuratively) them because of christianity and they have a wealth of information to back why they left. They have a lot to offer if you are willing to listen. I think they all combined make a very strong case against christianity and the bible.

[florduh]

 I simply believe Jesus Christ and Him crucified, dead and buried then on the third day He rose from the dead and after 40 days here on the earth He ascended into heaven where He sits at the right Hand of God ruling and reigning.

 

Yep, that's how the mythology goes. You know, when we Ex-Christians believed that, we had no good reasons, either. 

 

...the bible is historically accurate...

 

You only read Christian apologetics, don't you?

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

Whether or not the bible is historically accurate or not proves nothing. Numerous fictional books are written using factual, actually existing historical places and situations. This is by no means a testament that they are in any way true. The bible was written by a bunch of people you don't know, tells stories about events that likely didn't happen, or those events are simply exaggerated stories of possibly true events. You do realize that the majority of the books written in the bible were not written in real time, but were, in fact written many years after the events and stories allegedly occurred. Just on a surface level, looking at the bible from this perspective should be enough to question its veracity. Secondly, since the bible was written by men we do not know, I see no difference in whether a group of men throughout history wrote a bunch of stories than if a group of men from my city who were Christians decided to write a bunch of stories about how god influenced their lives and we decided to create a whole book about these stories, (and then decided by several prominent scholarly Christian people in our era to be legitimately from god), then told to everyone that this collection of stories is god's divine word and we should change our whole lives and live based on what is written in it. If a group of people did that this year, no one would be willing to accept that it was god's word, but we are ok with accepting basically the same situation with the bible? Some of the things I believed as a Christian make absolutely no sense to me now. When you take off the rose-colored glasses of christianity and look at it from a neutral standpoint, there is no way that you can possibly see it for the same things you do as a Christian. It  just isn't possible. I would suspect that you have no issue with dismissing the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or the Book of Mormon because they have no value to you, but with the same measure you likely dismiss them as "God Inspired", we also do with the bible and, subsequently, christianity. It doesn't really take a lot of research to find that the bible isn't all its cracked up to be. I challenge you to look objectively at the things posted here in this forum. So many people have been heartbroken and had their lives taken from (literally and figuratively) them because of christianity and they have a wealth of information to back why they left. They have a lot to offer if you are willing to listen. I think they all combined make a very strong case against christianity and the bible.

 

You are right the Bible is not all it is cracked up to be. It is so much more. As for those who had their live taken from them, it is because they bought the lie of religion instead of a true relationship with Christ. In fact the reason most people "leave the faith" is because they were hurt by someone or something and then attribute that hurt to God. When God never said they would have it easy. In fact God said that it would be hard that temptations, trials and persecution would come our way if believe in Him. It is like story of the foot prints in the sand when the guy looks back over his life and at the hardest points in his life he sees only one set of footprints and then ask God how he could leave him alone during the hardest points in his life and the Lord says when you see one set of footprints that when I carried you. It breaks my heart to see so many people hurt by the church. I wish I could change it all but I can only change how I live. Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide. I have the scars on my wrists to prove this.  This is not to say that I don't still have depression. Satan uses my scars to torment and accuse me in the presence of God. I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.  He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.  

[Astreja]

TrueBeliever, the following statement absolutely does not apply to Me:

 

In fact the reason most people "leave the faith" is because they were hurt by someone or something and then attribute that hurt to God.

I was christened as an infant and read the Bible at age 6-7, but I have never been able to believe that the god of the Bible actually existed. As the years went by and I revisited what I had read in the Bible, I came to see it as an increasingly odious, unconscionable and downright absurd anthology of really bad mythology.

 

IMO, a god that won't defend its followers against "Satan" and that insists on a blood sacrifice in order to forgive is not worth worshipping. The Jesus story is just purple prose, a fanfic loosely based on Judaism. I don't think Jesus came back from the dead; I think those are just words in a story. In fact, if there ever was a Jesus executed by the Romans, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have taken down his body and handed it over for private burial; I think they'd have just pitched it into a mass grave with the rest of the bodies. As far as I'm concerned, you're worshipping a mythical master because the story of sacrifice exploited your emotions.

 

I also think that if you still have depression, your god is not going to be of much help at all. I strongly advise you to consult your family doctor and get a referral to a psychiatrist.

[mymistake]

I wish I could change it all but I can only change how I live. Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide. I have the scars on my wrists to prove this.  This is not to say that I don't still have depression. Satan uses my scars to torment and accuse me in the presence of God. I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.  He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.

 

 

Thank you for leveling with us.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you have felt suicidal and that you injured yourself.  I have struggled for decades with a fear of demons and a fear of Satan.  For me the right response was to realize there is no Satan and there are no demons.  Life has been much better ever since.  You don't have to turn yourself into a slave for your religion.  And don't fool yourself, you are one of the most religious people out there.  I hope you find peace someday.

[Storm]

 

 

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

Whether or not the bible is historically accurate or not proves nothing. Numerous fictional books are written using factual, actually existing historical places and situations. This is by no means a testament that they are in any way true. The bible was written by a bunch of people you don't know, tells stories about events that likely didn't happen, or those events are simply exaggerated stories of possibly true events. You do realize that the majority of the books written in the bible were not written in real time, but were, in fact written many years after the events and stories allegedly occurred. Just on a surface level, looking at the bible from this perspective should be enough to question its veracity. Secondly, since the bible was written by men we do not know, I see no difference in whether a group of men throughout history wrote a bunch of stories than if a group of men from my city who were Christians decided to write a bunch of stories about how god influenced their lives and we decided to create a whole book about these stories, (and then decided by several prominent scholarly Christian people in our era to be legitimately from god), then told to everyone that this collection of stories is god's divine word and we should change our whole lives and live based on what is written in it. If a group of people did that this year, no one would be willing to accept that it was god's word, but we are ok with accepting basically the same situation with the bible? Some of the things I believed as a Christian make absolutely no sense to me now. When you take off the rose-colored glasses of christianity and look at it from a neutral standpoint, there is no way that you can possibly see it for the same things you do as a Christian. It  just isn't possible. I would suspect that you have no issue with dismissing the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or the Book of Mormon because they have no value to you, but with the same measure you likely dismiss them as "God Inspired", we also do with the bible and, subsequently, christianity. It doesn't really take a lot of research to find that the bible isn't all its cracked up to be. I challenge you to look objectively at the things posted here in this forum. So many people have been heartbroken and had their lives taken from (literally and figuratively) them because of christianity and they have a wealth of information to back why they left. They have a lot to offer if you are willing to listen. I think they all combined make a very strong case against christianity and the bible.

 

You are right the Bible is not all it is cracked up to be. It is so much more. As for those who had their live taken from them, it is because they bought the lie of religion instead of a true relationship with Christ. In fact the reason most people "leave the faith" is because they were hurt by someone or something and then attribute that hurt to God. When God never said they would have it easy. In fact God said that it would be hard that temptations, trials and persecution would come our way if believe in Him. It is like story of the foot prints in the sand when the guy looks back over his life and at the hardest points in his life he sees only one set of footprints and then ask God how he could leave him alone during the hardest points in his life and the Lord says when you see one set of footprints that when I carried you. It breaks my heart to see so many people hurt by the church. I wish I could change it all but I can only change how I live. Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide. I have the scars on my wrists to prove this.  This is not to say that I don't still have depression. Satan uses my scars to torment and accuse me in the presence of God. I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.  He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.  

 

I, too, agree that it is a sad moment when anyone is faced with the choice to end their life. I am glad you made it through such a dark period in your life.  But, truthfully, everything you have posted thus far reeks of modern christianity. You aren't really providing anything of substantive value in regards to your responses. You speak of things in generalities like most Christians do. And you do so because that's what you have likely heard and that is also what you would like to believe really happens, because it just doesn't make sense that someone could actually think and reason themselves out of a belief in god. You really believe that most people leave the faith because of hurt? I would agree that there are people that do leave because of what someone did in the name of Christ, however, I think you will find that most people on this forum left because the evidence was overwhelmingly against everything we ever believed or were taught to believe. Your efforts to separate yourself from the world makes it so you cant look at the world objectively. Until you figure out that you are living in a delusion, you will continue to say the things you are saying now. Take a real leap of faith and look at the world without the rose-colored glasses of christianity. I think you will be surprised at what you see.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

You are right the Bible is not all it is cracked up to be. It is so much more.

 

It's so much more than it's cracked up to be? Where do you get that idea from?

 

 

As for those who had their live taken from them, it is because they bought the lie of religion instead of a true relationship with Christ. In fact the reason most people "leave the faith" is because they were hurt by someone or something and then attribute that hurt to God. When God never said they would have it easy. In fact God said that it would be hard that temptations, trials and persecution would come our way if believe in Him.

 

So, why shouldn't hurt be attributed to your god, if he exists?

 

According to the Bible, your god knows everything that is going to happen, before it happens. If that is the case, then he knows every time someone will be hurt by others, both in the church and outside, before it ever happens. He knows every trial and persecution that will "come our way if we believe in Him" before they happen. If he is not powerless to stop these things, then he must have wanted them to happen.

 

Then there is the whole bit about how, "God said that it would be hard that temptations... would come our way..." According to the Bible, your god forces humans to be born with a sinful nature that they can't resist, against their will. This must mean that it is programmed into humans to sin. If your god is not powerless to stop humans from being tempted, to give in to their programming, then he must have wanted humans to be tempted, and fail.

 

If your god exists, then every storm, every sickness, every persecution, every single time someone hurts you physically or emotionally, he purposefully sends that crap your way. Then, when you find yourself up to your neck in crap, you pray and ask for help, and he comes and saves you. This, as I have said before, looks exactly like a doctor poisoning their patient and then saving them from the poison when they cry for help. I'd never trust a doctor that does that and I certainly would not trust a god that did that either. Would you?

 

It breaks my heart to see so many people hurt by the church. I wish I could change it all but I can only change how I live. Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide. I have the scars on my wrists to prove this.  This is not to say that I don't still have depression. Satan uses my scars to torment and accuse me in the presence of God. I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.  He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.  

 

If you believe that the god of the Bible exists, then you should blame him for everything. The scars on your wrist and your depression; he should be to blame for all of that. He either exists or doesn't exist, but if he exists, then he is 100% responsible for your suffering and the suffering of others.

 

What exactly did Jesus save you from by being killed and brought back to life? According to the Bible, the Bible god set you and all humans up to fail, so that all humans would be in a situation in which they would need to be saved from Hell. The whole salvation thing isn't salvation at all.

 

In the Bible, what your god has done is he shoved you and all of humanity into a pit. Then, he poured gasoline on everyone and threw them a rope. After that, he said, "Devote your entire lives to me and become my slaves! Then, grab the rope and I'll let you come up here and worship me forever! If you don't do this, then I'll light a match and throw it down and you will all burn."

 

Also, you have yet to demonstrate that the god of the Bible is even God at all. I've asked Christians this many times and have never gotten an answer, "How do you know that the god of the Bible is even God at all? What if he is one god among many? What if he is an evil spirit tricking you into thinking he's a god, when he's not?"

 

Jesus could have been a victim of Bible god's cruelty from the beginning. Maybe he was just a human puppet that the god of the Bible, a possible false god, used to get humans to fall for his tricks. Maybe Jesus, as described in the Bible, was never real, but was based on a real person.

 

If you believe that the god of the Bible exists and that evil spirits exist, then how do you tell them apart? Any being that said it was going to send you to Hell to be tortured forever could very easily be an evil spirit, without you even knowing about it. Any being that would place your salvation, from this Hell he is threatening you with, on faith alone, could easily be an evil spirit. It could be an evil spirit trying to scare you, while not even having the power to send you to Hell, but you believe otherwise and serve this spirit and call it "God", out of fear.

[TrueBeliever]

 

I wish I could change it all but I can only change how I live. Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide. I have the scars on my wrists to prove this.  This is not to say that I don't still have depression. Satan uses my scars to torment and accuse me in the presence of God. I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.  He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.

 

 

Thank you for leveling with us.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you have felt suicidal and that you injured yourself.  I have struggled for decades with a fear of demons and a fear of Satan.  For me the right response was to realize there is no Satan and there are no demons.  Life has been much better ever since.  You don't have to turn yourself into a slave for your religion.  And don't fool yourself, you are one of the most religious people out there.  I hope you find peace someday.

 

You are right that I don't have to turn myself into a slave for my religion. I choose to be a slave to God and now reap the benefits of eternal life. This is found in Romans 3:20-23. You are also right that I am religious. I would say that I am only religious in regards to the true definition of religious as found in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. I am not religious in the the sense of the bad connotations associated with the term religious. When you say I hope you find peace, I find peace daily with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  

[mymistake]

I choose to be a slave to God and now reap the benefits of eternal life. This is found in Romans 3:20-23. 

 

 

Did it ever occur to you that Paul might have lied?  If it was a lie how would you know?

 

Just like all the millions of people in other religions who believe their religion with all sincerity.  You can see how those other religions leave those followers deluded but somehow you are the one who has the real thing.  It says so right there in that ancient book written by a con artist. 

[florduh]

TB, you are like many, if not most, Christians who come here. Too holy for the hypocritical churches, too close to Jesus to worship with other mere mortals. You think you can show us the True Christianity, unsullied by denomination and doctrine. 

 

It is you who see the denominations, congregations and their flaws as driving people from the religion, not us. Most leave Christianity not because of individual Christians or congregations, but because the belief and philosophy fails in the real world and doesn't match observable reality. We leave because the basis, the only basis, for Christianity is the Bible, and that turns out to be such a flawed piece of work it's not even funny. We leave because a psychological effect is the only thing prayer has ever accomplished. We leave because there is no evidence that it is true other than the fables in the Bible, and that's not evidence any more than Star Trek is evidence for the Federation of Planets.

 

I'm sorry you suffer from depression, but keep in mind that Christianity preys on people in distress. The "on fire" churches are full of damaged people who have turned to the promises of religion rather than drugs, alcohol or suicide. If your beliefs provide comfort for you, that is fine. It's irrelevant to others, however.

[midniterider]

 

 I will say that there are those who claim they have a relationship and continue to beat down every non-christian they come in contact with. This is not our job as christians, we are first and foremost to love all people.

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

 

Ah, you have answered my question down the thread. I'm glad that you love others even though they may not agree with your religion.

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

 

 

 I am not a member of any religion, only a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 

 

 

Those silly religious Christians, they do stuff like:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

But people who actually have a relationship with Jesus:

 

Praise Jesus

Worship Jesus

Pray to Jesus

 

 

How do you tell them apart? I certainly don't see a difference.

 

 I will say that there are those who claim they have a relationship and continue to beat down every non-christian they come in contact with. This is not our job as christians, we are first and foremost to love all people.

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

 

Can you love someone if they refuse to acknowledge what you feel is the truth?

 

Yes, I have many friends that would disagree with what I see as truth. It is not my place to condemn anyone that right belongs to God.

[florduh]

Dear deluded Christian, as an atheist I love you and want only for you to discover the Truth. It is my desire that you start to think as I do and see the universe as it really is.

 

Did that seem condescending? I hope so.

[TrueBeliever]

Dear deluded Christian, as an atheist I love you and want only for you to discover the Truth. It is my desire that you start to think as I do and see the universe as it really is.

 

Did that seem condescending? I hope so.

The statement as a whole if genuinely meant is not condescending at all, but with the apparent sarcasm you meant by saying it then yes it would be condescending.

[florduh]

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.