Free Will

[midniterider]

 In fact the reason most people "leave the faith" is because they were hurt by someone or something and then attribute that hurt to God.

 

I don't really know why most people leave the faith but a lot of people here just discovered that there was no god and the bible was fiction. As for me, I got tired of the guilt and fear of trying to live up to an impossible standard and never making it , as well as one voice in my head telling the other voice in my head what not to do.

 

 It breaks my heart to see so many people hurt by the church.

 

Do you attend a church now?

 

 Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide.

 

Life is a struggle for sure, whether one follows Christ or not. Most people have had thoughts of suicide in their life. I know I have.

 

 I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.

 

The right response as you say does not make much sense to me. I'd like to take a look at God, Jesus and his scars please. Now whip out an apologetic about why that won't be happening. :-)

 

 He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.  

 

You saved yourself from a most horrible fate and will continue to have a dialog with yourself forever. As long as this brings you happiness that's great. A personal relationship with Jesus did not bring me happiness. Just fear, guilt and shame. So I jettisoned it. 

 

 

 

[TrueBeliever]

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

¹⁸ For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.¹⁹ For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,

    and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

²⁰ Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? ²¹ For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach^[a] to save those who believe. ²² For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,²³ but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, ²⁴ but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. ²⁵ For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

²⁶ For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. ²⁷ But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; ²⁸ God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, ²⁹ so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. ³⁰ And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,³¹ so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

[florduh]

And there he goes again...

[midniterider]

Dear deluded Christian, as an atheist I love you and want only for you to discover the Truth. It is my desire that you start to think as I do and see the universe as it really is.

 

Did that seem condescending? I hope so.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if each one of us extended our fellow humans the freedom and encouragement to believe in whatever way they liked. I would miss the people here though because there would be no need for this website. :-)

 

Doesn't the 'great commission' seem to be just another 'be like me' human behavior? We're all a bit like that no matter what religion we are or aren't. It's probably part of our social anatomy.

[Storm]

TB's posts and continuation of his thinking reminds me of Proverbs 26:11

[midniterider]

 

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

¹⁸ For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.¹⁹ For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,

    and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

²⁰ Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? ²¹ For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach^[a] to save those who believe. ²² For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,²³ but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, ²⁴ but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. ²⁵ For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

²⁶ For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. ²⁷ But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; ²⁸ God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, ²⁹ so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. ³⁰ And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,³¹ so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

 

 

Do not question the absurd scripture you have just read for verily you will be destroyed if you do so. Instead say, "Amen!" to the ridiculous, bow your head and give the pastor 10%.

[TrueBeliever]

 

 In fact the reason most people "leave the faith" is because they were hurt by someone or something and then attribute that hurt to God.

 

I don't really know why most people leave the faith but a lot of people here just discovered that there was no god and the bible was fiction. As for me, I got tired of the guilt and fear of trying to live up to an impossible standard and never making it , as well as one voice in my head telling the other voice in my head what not to do.

 

You were simply looking at  christianity with wrong perspective.  God does not expect anyone to be perfect. We are to strive to be perfect, yes, but that does not mean he will not forgive us if we do end up in the wrong. I am sorry you were sold such a rotten bill of goods.  God never intended for us to be perfect. 

 

 It breaks my heart to see so many people hurt by the church.

 

Do you attend a church now?

 

I do attend church in obedience to my Lord. Do I necessarily agree with everything that has gone on in the church? No, but I go to fellowship with those who have the same foundation for there beliefs. 

 

 Let me be the first to say that before I cam to Christ there were many nights I contemplated suicide.

 

Life is a struggle for sure, whether one follows Christ or not. Most people have had thoughts of suicide in their life. I know I have.

 

I agree.

 

 I could say how could you let this happen to me God because of this you must not be real. That is the wrong response altogether. The right response is that Jesus has scars on his wrist too.

 

The right response as you say does not make much sense to me. I'd like to take a look at God, Jesus and his scars please. Now whip out an apologetic about why that won't be happening. :-)

 

There is no apologetic answer for this he could if he so wanted, but would that really change your mind?

 

 He saved me from a most horrible fate. I will serve Him my whole life because it is not His fault I carry these scars it is my own because it could be worse.  

 

You saved yourself from a most horrible fate and will continue to have a dialog with yourself forever. As long as this brings you happiness that's great. A personal relationship with Jesus did not bring me happiness. Just fear, guilt and shame. So I jettisoned it. 

 

I am sorry you feel that way I hope that my responses  to your statement bring to light why I believe the way I do.

 

 

 

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

 

A 6 day creation is historically accurate?

A global flood is historically accurate?

A mud man and a rib woman as the first two human beings, is historically accurate?

 

These things are true history?

 

Ok.

 

No, those things take an element of faith to believe. I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith. Who can prove there position of how the world came about? I know from other posts of yours that you believe in the multiverse theory, but can you prove it as fact? That would be impossible because you would then have to be able to ALL the outcomes of of every single universe.  This is impossible because there are an infinite number of possibilities and you my friend, as all of us do, have a finite life. So, it will always be a theory. 

 

 

Hello TB.

 

Before I respond fully to your last message, I'd like to ask you to clarify exactly what you meant by the sentence... 

"No, those things take an element of faith to believe."

 

So, you believe them to be... what ...exactly? 

Since you don't accept them as bona fide historical facts, please explain what you do accept them as.

 

Ditto, with the sentence... "I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith."

 

What things?  An example, please.  And please explain your reasoning as well.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[midniterider]

"For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. ²⁷ But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; ²⁸ God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, ²⁹ so that no human being might boast in the presence of God."

 

[translated]

 

"Not many of you were wise which is why you were chosen...You were gullible. And the powerful were useless because they wouldn't listen to this bullshit. So we God chose gullible fools to shame the wise (a religion of shame), we God chose the weak (who are more gullible than the strong) to shame the strong (shaming again).  We God chose the weak-minded, basically so we could control them."

 

The strong and wise wouldn't fall for that shit, well not for long.

[midniterider]

I don't really know why most people leave the faith but a lot of people here just discovered that there was no god and the bible was fiction. As for me, I got tired of the guilt and fear of trying to live up to an impossible standard and never making it , as well as one voice in my head telling the other voice in my head what not to do.

 

You were simply looking at  christianity with wrong perspective.  God does not expect anyone to be perfect. We are to strive to be perfect, yes, but that does not mean he will not forgive us if we do end up in the wrong. I am sorry you were sold such a rotten bill of goods.  God never intended for us to be perfect.

 

............

 

This perspective grows on you the more you 'strive for perfection.' People can choose the perspective they want to look at things. I decided I did not want to continue to apologize to God every time I said, "Goddammit" or had a lustful thought because it was ridiculous to do so. Nor did I want to change my behavior or thoughts. My mental makeup is such that I cannot allow others to control me (too much) , especially beings that probably don't really exist anyway. For others it probably works out ok.

[midniterider]

 

I am sorry you feel that way I hope that my responses  to your statement bring to light why I believe the way I do.

 

 

 

 

 

Back then, I felt the way you feel now and I liked it because it felt great....but then that feeling wore off and I was left with the fear, guilt and shame of indoctrination. :-) It's not the same for everyone, I'm sure.

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

 

A 6 day creation is historically accurate?

A global flood is historically accurate?

A mud man and a rib woman as the first two human beings, is historically accurate?

 

These things are true history?

 

Ok.

 

No, those things take an element of faith to believe. I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith. Who can prove there position of how the world came about? I know from other posts of yours that you believe in the multiverse theory, but can you prove it as fact? That would be impossible because you would then have to be able to ALL the outcomes of of every single universe.  This is impossible because there are an infinite number of possibilities and you my friend, as all of us do, have a finite life. So, it will always be a theory. 

 

 

Hello TB.

 

Before I respond fully to your last message, I'd like to ask you to clarify exactly what you meant by the sentence... 

"No, those things take an element of faith to believe."

 

So, you believe them to be... what ...exactly? 

Since you don't accept them as bona fide historical facts, please explain what you do accept them as.

 

Ditto, with the sentence... "I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith."

 

What things?  An example, please.  And please explain your reasoning as well.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

 

"So, you believe them to be... what ...exactly? 

Since you don't accept them as bona fide historical facts, please explain what you do accept them as."

 

I do accept them as historical facts because of my faith. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." This is what I use a definition for faith.  A definition similar to this can be found in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. There is no real proof that God created the world in that way what I can say is there is a lot of evidence to back up this theory. A good website for this is answersingenesis.org.  

 

"Ditto, with the sentence... 'I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith.'

 

What things?  An example, please.  And please explain your reasoning as well." 

 

Take for example the existence of God. I could sit here and give argument after argument for the existence of God, but every argument consists only of evidence that there is a God. To prove that God exists I would have to bring Him within the realm of our 5 senses. Since I cannot do that I must have faith.

 

Even if God did present Himself to you within the realm of our 5 senses would that be enough for you to believe? 

[mymistake]

 

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

 

 

 

Try to not piss people off.  Quoting Paul's lies means nothing.  Talking about knowing more than God is like talking about knowing more than Darth Vader or the Easter Bunny.  Do you think you know more than Darth Vader?  

[TrueBeliever]

 

 

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

 

 

 

Try to not piss people off.  Quoting Paul's lies means nothing.  Talking about knowing more than God is like talking about knowing more than Darth Vader or the Easter Bunny.  Do you think you know more than Darth Vader?  

 

I am not trying to piss anyone off. To you God might be just like Darth Vader or the Easter Bunny but to me He is very real all powerful, all knowing and all present.

[florduh]

I do accept them as historical facts because of my faith.

 

Things are historical facts or they are not. They don't become true simply believing in them.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

A 6 day creation is historically accurate?

A global flood is historically accurate?

A mud man and a rib woman as the first two human beings, is historically accurate?

 

These things are true history?

 

Ok.

 

No, those things take an element of faith to believe. I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith. Who can prove there position of how the world came about? I know from other posts of yours that you believe in the multiverse theory, but can you prove it as fact? That would be impossible because you would then have to be able to ALL the outcomes of of every single universe.  This is impossible because there are an infinite number of possibilities and you my friend, as all of us do, have a finite life. So, it will always be a theory. 

 

 

Hello TB.

 

Before I respond fully to your last message, I'd like to ask you to clarify exactly what you meant by the sentence... 

"No, those things take an element of faith to believe."

 

So, you believe them to be... what ...exactly? 

Since you don't accept them as bona fide historical facts, please explain what you do accept them as.

 

Ditto, with the sentence... "I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith."

 

What things?  An example, please.  And please explain your reasoning as well.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

 

"So, you believe them to be... what ...exactly? 

Since you don't accept them as bona fide historical facts, please explain what you do accept them as."

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I do accept them as historical facts because of my faith.

 

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." This is what I use a definition for faith.  A definition similar to this can be found in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. There is no real proof that God created the world in that way what I can say is there is a lot of evidence to back up this theory. A good website for this is answersingenesis.org.  

 

"Ditto, with the sentence... 'I admitted that you have to take some things of the Bible by faith.'

 

What things?  An example, please.  And please explain your reasoning as well." 

 

Take for example the existence of God. I could sit here and give argument after argument for the existence of God, but every argument consists only of evidence that there is a God. To prove that God exists I would have to bring Him within the realm of our 5 senses. Since I cannot do that I must have faith.

 

Well, you're doing a fine job of confusing me, TB.

 

You say that there is no real proof that God created the world in that way - but you don't make it clear which way you mean.  Which way?  The 6 day creation?

 

And then you say that there is a lot of evidence to back up this theory. Which theory? 

So far between us, the only theory that's been mentioned is Multiversal theory.  So you seem to be saying that there's a lot of evidence for Multiversal theory. 

Or did you mean to say that there's a lot of evidence for a Young Earth - which is what the Creationists at AIG believe?

But then, why would they bother with evidence if they rely on faith in things unseen, as you say they do?

 

You go on to cite AIG as being a good site - but good for what?

 

Not for supporting Multiversal theory, that's for sure!

 

The Creationists there do not believe that 'by faith in unseen things' that God created the world in 6 days. 

They claim to have bona fide scientific evidence (within the realm of the 5 senses) for a Young Earth. 

They don't rely on faith in unseen things, but on the visible and testable evidence they claim to see all around us. 

 

TB, you don't seem to understand what Creation Science is, if you think that it means 'faith in unseen things'.

 

In fact, it means the opposite.  

 

Even if God did present Himself to you within the realm of our 5 senses would that be enough for you to believe? 

 

That question will have to wait.

 

TB, a troll would make the kind of rookie-level mistake you've made here.

 

Please convince me that you're not a troll by explaining why the Creation Scientists at AIG don't use faith in things unseen to hold to the doctrine of 6-day creation.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[bornagainathiest]

Hey, TB!

 

I entered the query, "Physical Evidence" into the Search facility at AIG.  Here's what came up...

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/search/?q=physical+evidence&search=Go

 

So why do they need concrete, physical evidence of a 6-day creation, when (according to you) they use faith in unseen things, to believe in the Genesis narrative?

 

 

Care to explain... Mr. Troll?

 

 

[LivingLife]

I am sure these folk come here to top up their "persecution quotas" aka "scars for jesus". We are not even discussing free will anymore.

 

I have a FW topic on the other forum I post on and just had a similar person inventing shit and deflecting and moving the goalposts.

 

TB, we have all been where you were. Citing walls of text only shows us you are good little xian drone. We kinda prefer to talk to the person behind the babble veneer.

 

Since I have been here, only one person I know of reconverted and that did not last long before she was back. I am certain little had to do with any xian posters here.

 

We have partaken in all the different flavours of Koolaide and so far nothing you have shared is new revelation. In fact we can see your struggles behind the thin veneer of your wall texts.

 

My advice is that you have doubts, study the bible and church origins and preferably w/o referencing apologist sites. You are never gonna find truth by not exploring the other side. If you lose your faith, we will be here for you, we care for the wounded unlike the churches who shoot their wounded.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

 

 

 

Try to not piss people off.  Quoting Paul's lies means nothing.  Talking about knowing more than God is like talking about knowing more than Darth Vader or the Easter Bunny.  Do you think you know more than Darth Vader?  

 

I am not trying to piss anyone off. To you God might be just like Darth Vader or the Easter Bunny but to me He is very real all powerful, all knowing and all present.

 

 

 

You remind me of myself about four years ago.  God was that real to me back then.  

 

We think God is like Darth Vader.  So can you understand why it would be condescending for somebody to come up to you and tell you to stop thinking that you know more than Darth Vader?

[Astreja]

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 <snip>

 

TB, weren't you trying to distance yourself from "Bible thumpers" just a few short posts ago?  *heavy sigh*

[TheRedneckProfessor]

You know, after reading through the past 24 hours of TrueBeliever's attempts at argument and apologetic, a thought suddenly occurred to me: What if god really did give free will, but it only gave it to those who chose to use it?  What if people like TrueBeliever do NOT have free will but must choose god because god knew that people like him would only abuse free will if they had it?  Contrariwise, what if god knew somebody like Ravenstar would use free will to do good to those around her, so it gave free will to Ravenstar?  Perhaps that would explain TrueBeliever's absence of objectivity and rationality concerning his own beliefs: He simply has no choice but to believe and act as he does.

 

If only god were real, I'd have myself a workable hypothesis here!

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

I was once where TB is now. I do understand that in that mental state nobody can see how obnoxious the condescension is. It's not even seen as an abnormal social behavior. Ah, the simplicity of cult-think.

 

It is only condescending if you think you know more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

¹⁸ For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.¹⁹ For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,

    and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

²⁰ Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? ²¹ For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach^[a] to save those who believe. ²² For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,²³ but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, ²⁴ but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. ²⁵ For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

²⁶ For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. ²⁷ But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; ²⁸ God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, ²⁹ so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. ³⁰ And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,³¹ so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

 

 

You have made one little mistake here. You are quoting text written by humans, who could have easily injected their own personal agendas and biases into the Bible, while claiming to be giving out the "Word of God". To believe that the Bible accurately reveals the thoughts, desires, and knowledge of a real god would require you to have blind faith in words written by men. 

[Ravenstar]

 

 

 

 I can honestly say that I do love all people and I just want them to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you want them to do something then your love is conditional.

As for the "truth", you really mean your version of the truth.

 

On the contrary, I whether you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ or not I still love you. Therefore, my love is unconditional. I would just be greatly thrilled to see you Come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

You need to read your bible... without the interpretation of your pastor or current apologist.

 

There is almost NO evidence for the veracity of the Bible as the 'word of god'. If you have some, as an historian... I'd be very interested in seeing it.  

You are right that is where faith comes into play, but as a historian you must admit that the bible is historically accurate and is therefore, in regards to history, true.

 

Okay.. most of my esteemed friends here know how upset I get when LIES about history are promoted. Sooo... No.. I don't.. and no it isn't.

 

The Bible is NOT historically accurate, except in very minor ways, and no honest historian or archaeologist would make that claim. The Bible is not considered a history book by Historians. There are some characters mentioned who did exist, and we have some verification of that..But the Illiad and the Oddysey also mention places and names of the time.. so what?  MOSTLY Kings of other countries, Like Cyrus the Great and such. But anyone alive at that time, or even around that time would have known of the RULERS OF THE KNOWN WORLD. There are SOME places we can verify, but the events the Bible said happened, not so much.

 

A lot of the stories told, in regards to the rest of the middle east are flat out bullshit. The Hebrews were not the first people on earth, nor even close to the first civilization (the Sumers were) - they came out of the hills of Canaan and are more related to the Canaanites and Phoneicians (you know the Phoneicians.. those are the guys whose language the Hebrew language comes from), Yahweh came out of the Canaanite Pantheon...the father god of the Canaanites was El (El Shaddai) (source: Ugarit texts)

 

The Exodus never happened, the Flood NEVER HAPPENED and Sodom and Gommorah were not smited by Yahweh. The creation story and the flood story are 'borrowed' sometimes almost word for word from earlier writings of the Babylonians. (Source: Enuma Elish and the Epic of Gilgamesh). The Egyptians never had millions of Hebrew slaves, nor is "Moses" a name... it means "son of"... son of who?  They never say, because they didn't understand the CONTEXT of the Egyptian word. (Like TutMOSES.. son of Tut) Oh... the story of Moses birth, etc.. is also ripped off from a much earlier story of SARGON of Akkad.  Oh, and Moses didn't write the Tanach, nor did Peter, John, Mark and Luke write the gospels. (it seems Paul however is the author of some of the New Testament)

 

Even modern Jews admit as much, and they would have the most to lose by admitting it.

 

Nazareth didn't even exist as a place at the time Jesus was supposedly from there... it didn't exist until later. There was never a census that required people to return to their place of birth... NEVER HAPPENED. The sun has never stopped moving in the sky.. and David and Solomon have never been found, nor their cities, or well... anything really. and it goes on and on and on...

 

It's all lies...and historians, the honest ones - not the apologists, and the archaeological community know it.

 

Add to all this crap the fact that Constantine and the council of Nicea hand-picked the scriptures they though backed up their view and discarded the rest because there was a theological war going on between various different factions of christians at the time.. 325AD

 

Josephus is a forgery

 

YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO.

 

If you have EVIDENCE that I am wrong... bring it on. I can cite and cross-reference my knowledge. I don't have to take it on faith, or believe what some other person has written. I can PROVE my assertions (as far as history can be proved, it's not a hard science)... pick a topic on Biblical history.. any topic and we can have a go.

 

Please educate yourself. If what you believe is true it will stand up to scrutiny. It should, shouldn't it?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

^^^ You see?  There's Ravenstar using her free will to do good for the people around her.  She is enlightening us about history, while simultaneously attempting to free people from their superstitions.  Shine on, Ravenstar, shine on.

[mymistake]

Ravenstar's history lessons are one of my favorite things about the Lion's Den.