Ouroboros Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 First of all, it was Bush senior who said it, and here's the background info: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbearer Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 Yeah I said GHW Bush. Sorry for the confusion. But I read that site, Bush Sr. is an asshole. I still can't believe he'd say things like that. But, like most leaders they can brush off minorities, it won't affect thier vote. I also found this. Pretty compelling. Edit: Oops, forgot to add the link http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/judgmentday.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 First of all, it was Bush senior who said it, and here's the background info: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm Thanks HanSolo! I should have known you would know about it... you know everything! Except you don't know that you do know everything. hehe Gosh, it seems to me that dialogue is worse than the comment Mel Gibson made! I wonder how that escaped the publicity Mel got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbearer Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 It happend in August of 1987 Amanda. I was born that month! So it's long been forgotten. I'd like to see Bush Jr. (George W. Bush) address athiesm, but I think he is more moderate and accepting. I repect this Bush more then his father. But he still uses his altruistic religion to push political agenda and screw up the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 It happend in August of 1987 Amanda. I was born that month! So it's long been forgotten. Gosh, Lightbearer, you're so young! Don't tell anyone, but I have a son about your age. I was probably out of the country when that happened though. I'd like to see Bush Jr. (George W. Bush) address athiesm, but I think he is more moderate and accepting. I repect this Bush more then his father. But he still uses his altruistic religion to push political agenda and screw up the country. Actually, it's too late for this Bush. However, his brother is governor of my state. I will say that he seems very open minded, no hardline religious overtones. He has had his share of life's difficulties, as he has had highly publicized problems with his daughter on drugs... and I can see the compassion yet accountability he has for her. His wife got caught trying to not pay duty on purchases she got on a European shopping excursion. He was very humbled and had her face everyone, accept responsibility for her actions, and was given significant community service in excess of what a regular first time offender would have gotten. In summary, IMO, he does not have the elitist mentality. He seems to be a good, sharp guy. Almost seemingly as compassionate as the democrats. He is the first republican governor I can ever remember! I'm curious if anyone has heard of any antiAtheist remarks from Jeb Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachelness Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Christian pity party up in here y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth C Triggs Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 "I wonder how that escaped the publicity Mel got?" Amanda, it did not escape wide publicity, as you have already been told. You might have missed it, but others did not. This is a nation obsessed with Stars, however, and so "the media" are beating this Mel Gibson thing to death. Because you love it. Now you want to believe in Jeb Bush. Amazing. I'll take Jebba the Hutt over that fake cowboy transplanted Yankee chimp George W any day. I can at least see a modicum of decency in Jeb that I can't see in his brother. His household's a lot more "real" for some reason, and I feel Noelle, et al. are far more deserving of empathy than the Budweiser Twins. I also much preferred George H.W. Bush to his son. The guy was out of touch, yeah...but stuff wasn't as fucked up back then. And Quayle was a lot of fun. GHWBush is very interesting...I think he was the one that coined the term "voodoo economics" to refer to supply-side economics as practiced by Ronald Reagan. This seems to have disappeared into a footnote in history after he'd become Reagan's running mate. (Nice backpedal too!) But I remember his comment about atheists. It's just more evidence that being an atheist would be political suicide in most areas. Even locally in Buffalo, NY where I live, people want to know what church you go to. Oi! -Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Here is what you are missing, in your ignorance and bliss: Atheists do not have a belief in any god(s). If you don't see the difference, well that just makes you ordinary. And that's a compliment. Maybe the Atheist community could get together and decide what they are. They all have a diffent definition, as though they can't even agree what an Atheist is. Good possibility that the various religious denominations and churches get together and decide what they should agree on. Seems to me that tons of inter-sectarian killing been done all in the name of *My god has a bigger.better.longer.larger wang than yours, it says so here in our translations of scripture!*. IG if you wish to continue to use a broad paintbrush to tar every user of this non-sectarian board with your silliness and killer assumptions, you may do so at the risk of being laughed right the fuck outa the neighborhood. I don't know, or do I care how big your dieties wang is, but trying to fire off an e.swordfight over your so far unstated belief system compared to the assembled here is specious and a waste of the Bosses electrons. Continued trolling here will find you carefully tossed on your ass back out the front door. Got something to add? Feel free to continue to participate here. Otherwise you'll find the ire of the mean.old.man all over your ass.. kevinFuckingL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbearer Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 He hasn't posted in a while. He is probally off trolling somewhere else then. Maybe he has a really busy work life or something too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftofpunk Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 I know I'm very late to this convo but I have to point out that by InspectoGenerals "rational" thought...he/she is ALSO weak because he/she doesn't believe in Unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 I hope you are not a troll, as someone else has suggested. I hope that you are actually seeking after knowledge. My Very Best to you, in your ignorance and bliss. First of all. I am definitely a troll. I read through this thread and I can't believe no one caught this. All right Mister, the spoof is up. Which one of us are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Now you want to believe in Jeb Bush. Amazing. Rrcanna, I live in Orlando, Florida. Jeb has been our first republican governor since I can ever remember. None of my neighbors, and not even my mother... a staunch democrat, has really anything bad to say about him. There is a lot said that is derrogatory about the other Bushs though, especially since I live in an area that is quite gay friendly. My position is usually on the fence, and do not vote along party lines. I'm open to hearing your insights on Jeb. You might be happey to know, as I understand it, he will NOT be running for governor this time... nor for the presidency either. I hope you are not a troll, as someone else has suggested. I hope that you are actually seeking after knowledge. My Very Best to you, in your ignorance and bliss. First of all. I am definitely a troll. I read through this thread and I can't believe no one caught this. All right Mister, the spoof is up. Which one of us are you? Taphophilia, we definitely caught this earlier... and HanSolo was reminding him to watch his step. He seemed to be much better after that was said... and I am not privy to what PMs the mods may have made to cause a different attitude too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Thanks Amanda, Hey, I didn't know you lived in FL too. I like Jeb too, seems like a stand up guy, and a bit of a rebel, if you ask me, by the mere fact he brought home a Mexican wife to his East Coast establishment family. I'm positive Barbara went ape shit over that! Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbearer Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I like Jeb, he is not that bad to me. I live in Louisianna so you guys are like my neighbors down the street, haha. Thanks to hurricane Katrina everyone in town knows how retarted our governer and officials here are. But it brings me back to our topic... But I remember his comment about atheists. It's just more evidence that being an atheist would be political suicide in most areas. Even locally in Buffalo, NY where I live, people want to know what church you go to. Oi! -Seth Could you elaborate on this please? Because i've noticed it too, I want to hear your thoughts on why you think it's commit political suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Thanks Amanda, Hey, I didn't know you lived in FL too. I like Jeb too, seems like a stand up guy, and a bit of a rebel, if you ask me, by the mere fact he brought home a Mexican wife to his East Coast establishment family. I'm positive Barbara went ape shit over that! Taph Taph, now that you mention it... he does seem like a rebel. He does not seem much like his father or brother, and I have never heard him tout any religous position at all. He seems much more compassionate too. I live in Orlando where we had 3 eyes of the hurricane go through here in about 6 weeks! It looked like a war zone! It seemed to be handled in a very responsible way. I also have a cabin in a fish camp type place near the west coast, where the river was flooding. They actually sent "soldiers" to gaurd people's homes and businesses from looting, while they were obviously unoccupied! These "soldiers" were on the entrance to these streets and in boats along the river. They certainly had a presence. Fortunately, the river did not flood my cabin. Jeb Bush has never said anything about our 'Gay Day' at Disney World, nor about the 'Gay Day' parade and festivities we have every year in our city. We may assume a lot of things, but who actually knows what 'spiritual' affilitation Jeb Bush has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth C Triggs Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 But I remember his comment about atheists. It's just more evidence that being an atheist would be political suicide in most areas. Even locally in Buffalo, NY where I live, people want to know what church you go to. Oi! -Seth Could you elaborate on this please? Because i've noticed it too, I want to hear your thoughts on why you think it's commit political suicide. Because in the USA, if you're atheist (or even Muslim given the current political climate) you are seen as evil. Though with atheism you're seen as immoral on top of that. Atheists rank low on the "trust" meter. People here in Buffalo also want to "approve" whatever church you go to. If you don't go to church, prepare for a lot of questioning. Because not sharing their religion is the biggest mistake you can make. I'll give a couple examples. I was actually reading this site when one of my clients was still getting some materials together while she was here (I do typesetting freelance). She noticed this site and asked about Ex-Christian and I told her that I was an ex-Christian. So then she immediately jumps to saying, "Anti-Christian," as if I have a problem with her personally for her being (nominally) a Christian. I had to correct her on that but it was still somewhat annoying. Then there was another time where one of my students had asked me what church I go to. I said I didn't go to church. "You worship the devil?" I hate when Christians jump to that. If you're not a Christian you have to automatically worship their stupid devil. So I decided to just cut to the chase and say, "I'm an atheist." The kid then says, "Oh man! You could kill me if you wanted to!" And I'm just floored by this, but he won't listen to me explain. "You worship the devil!" he claims again. I had to try to explain that atheist means no deity/god/whatever, but he just continued to fail to listen. Hell when you think about it, not being Christian is social suicide too. -Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbearer Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I've been thinking about running for an office some day. I'd have no problems saying I'm athiest. I don't think anyone's ever really tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I've been thinking about running for an office some day. I'd have no problems saying I'm athiest. I don't think anyone's ever really tried it. Perhaps you might want to pursue that in a way that suggest that you are for empowering people in a belief in their own capacity, in a way that gives them the ability to cause their future to be under their own control, and therefore accountability and responsibility for their own actions. Hey, Lightbearer, I'd vote for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I'd always been told that Atheists were evil doers and hated god. I'd thought that for a long time until one day, I was sitting down with one in the waiting room of my daughters dance class. This other mom was just like me. We got on the subject of religion one day and she told me she was an Athiest. I was shocked. I asked her lots of questions that I'm sure she'd heard a million times before. I was genuinely curious and I wanted to learn. She answered all my questions honestly and truthfully and I came to a different understanding than I'd had before. I was still a Christian after that but I understood others with different views than I had and it was all right that they had their views and I had mine. Had I found this site when I was a Christian, I would have asked questions and desired to learn but then I think being like that as a person is why I'm now an Ex-Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 <I'd always been told that Atheists were evil doers and hated god.> ~ <We got on the subject of religion one day and she told me she was an Athiest. I was shocked.> Taphophilia, the problem in running for office, in regards to being so outspoken about Atheism, IMO, is that people want to elect someone that is most like them self. It is this sense of connection that makes someone think this nominee is going to be sensitive to their own needs. This Atheist claim would then encompass having to be reeducating society as to what Atheism really is, if they will even give you that chance. I suspect the majority of the people believe in a god, so this specific label would just cause another unnecessary battle to overcome to be elected. There are probably other ways to do this than to make it a defining factor of who you are. It seems to me that a nominee should be about ensuring everyone's rights, and one's spiritual journey is a personal and separate experience. One's belief in a supreme being, or the lack of it is our individual right. I happen to believe in god, however, I am very drawn to the Atheist mentality of empowering ourself to make things happen and taking complete responsibilities for our actions, instead of praying for solutions to fall down from the sky or the devil made me do it. What's wrong with a faith in the people the nominee is to represent, and to seek to structure things in a way to empower themselves to make their lives better? Instead of God be with us, it could be to be with 'our self' and each other to make things happen! Isn't that the Atheist way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I think a big part of the negative attitude towards atheists in america comes from the cold war. America was constantly looking for ways to constrast ourselves from the "red menace". One of the most popular epitaphs that I can remember from my youth was "Godless Commies!" I was during this period that "under god" was added to the pledge, primarily as a way to distiguish us (god fearing american's) from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I think a big part of the negative attitude towards atheists in america comes from the cold war. America was constantly looking for ways to constrast ourselves from the "red menace". One of the most popular epitaphs that I can remember from my youth was "Godless Commies!" I was during this period that "under god" was added to the pledge, primarily as a way to distiguish us (god fearing american's) from them. Skankboy, you are so wise. It seems countries are started by people who want to believe like they all want to believe individually! Then some people take a belief to secure their political agendas, then all the people can't believe like they want to believe individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Skankboy, you are so wise. It seems countries are started by people who want to believe like they all want to believe individually! Then some people take a belief to secure their political agendas, then all the people can't believe like they want to believe individually. I refuse to conform to this individualist mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I refuse to conform to this individualist mentality. I'm with you Doc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 PS - thanks for the praise Amanda. Sometimes you make it tough to be a buddhist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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