Atheism Is For The Weak

[Kuroikaze]

Au contrare monfrair-

 

I am a real Christian. This thread was posted to feel things out. Anti-christians are generally very combative. Not all, but many are.

 

The labels of uncompassionate and arrogant don't bother me at all, you'll be called names no matter what postion you take or what disposition you have.

 

As to why I am here? I stumbled on this site quite by accident. I don't take posting on message boards as serious as some others do. Many are offended that I would post such things and have labeled me as a non Chrstian for the things I have posted. Some people taek themselves way too serious.

 

Most sites like this aren't used to dealing with Christians who don't back down and cower. And when they do, they call for their banning.

 

 

oh get over yourself, I've been here for over a year and a half and on only one occasion in that time was a christian banned, and in that instance it was for plagerism.

 

I think its interisting that you claim Atheism is weak because it doesn't have any "set" beliefs. To me weakness is when a person lets other people tell them what to think instead of making up their minds on their own.

 

Thomas Paine once pointed out that dogmatism is bad because you not only preclude other peoples ideas from being right, but you also preclude yourself from changing your mind abouut anything.

 

Real weakness is when a person cannot decide for themselves what is right and must depend on other people or institutions to tell them.

[NotBlinded]

Maybe he is an ExC pushing buttons and laughing. He even admitted earlier in this thread he was a troll! No serious person would make assertions about Atheist that are so untrue. I've never even seen an Atheist on here even mock God! And this person, IG, dances around all the questions and never even attempts to make a logical assertion for his points.

 

Maybe you're right. Hell, this guy makes Goldy look like a nobel prize winner.

[Thackerie]

That's pretty arrogant to think that real Christians would come here for meaningful discussion. Why would they? To convert you back? It is fairly obvious that noone here has any interest or desire to to be converted.

 

It's pretty arrogant to suggest that all christians are closed-minded people whose only purpose in life is to recruit for the cult; that only applies to fundies/evangelicals. Those like Open Minded and Amanda are welcomed on this site because they do participate in meaningful discussions, and I think you owe them an apology.

[NotBlinded]

What?

There's sharks on the Discovery channel? Go figer!!

 

Shark Week AGAIN??????

 

Where the fuck is Spider Week? Spiders are infinitely more interesting than sharks.

 

What the world needs is more television about spiders.

Actually, I think that the world needs more flowers on television.

[NotBlinded]

IG,

 

You have been arguing that there exists things that are not logical, i.e., somewhere outside of logic and illogic. That would make it A-logic right? I'm am entering your domain and playing inside for this purpose only.

 

Where does A-theism enter in your argument if this is your position? The examples are only used together to show my point based on your statements. Don't go and misunderstand the intent of the example. I could have chosen moral, immoral and A-moral or any combination.

 

You are claiming your knowledge, and putting your faith in it, based on this realm of A-logic.

 

What was your argument again?

[Ouroboros]

I can assure you that I don't know who it is, and I'm not going to ban him because I just suspect it. I don't have all the tools to check these things, that's why I can't know for sure. But if he/she gets too annoying, I won't hesitate to ban him/her. I already increased his/her warning level once.

[Knightley]

Come on, the arrogance, the baseless arguments, the insults - that helps us make our case very easily.

 

I may be alot of things, but these accusations are preposterous. Some people just can't take a joke.

 

then you should know we're also fucking with you

 

I mean.........why not, troll?

 

[Eponymic]

I posted in the Lion's Den because this is where you site said I should post this kind of exchange. I apologize if the exchange was too much for the thin skinned and easily offended. As with most anti-Christian sites, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. If you really wanted serious discussion, there are many who would engage.

 

I assume you are not asking for serious discussion, because nothing in your post indicates that you are. In fact, it's startling how blatantly obtuse & cold you're being. You are portraying, to me at least, that you aren't really open to discussing matters with anyone here. Why would anyone really want to engage you in serious conversation when you're so unfriendly & abrasive from the get go. Sure, you can be forthright & honest about what you believe. But that doesn't automatically necessitate being aloof & superscilious toward people here. Would you want to talk to someone how came into your house and was immediately rude & unfriendly?

 

 

If you really wanted answers, there are many who could provide them. If I am not banned, I will return from time to time for any serious discussion, just send me a message.

 

I'm more than happy to find answers. It would take some serious convincing because I've done quite a bit of study & have found all religions wanting. But if someone could offer difinitive proof- I'm more than happy to accept it.

 

That's pretty arrogant to think that real Christians would come here for meaningful discussion. Why would they? To convert you back? It is fairly obvious that noone here has any interest or desire to to be converted.

 

Isn't it a bit presumptious & arrogant of you to assume to know why others come on here? Some do come here for discussion, some come to convert, some come to just hit & run. It varies every time, but it's always different depending upon the person.

 

I am a real Christian. This thread was posted to feel things out. Anti-christians are generally very combative. Not all, but many are.

 

And I would assume you include yourself in the combative category considering your tone & method of posting instantly inflammatory material here.

 

The labels of uncompassionate and arrogant don't bother me at all, you'll be called names no matter what postion you take or what disposition you have.

 

Yes, but the names you're called are dependent upon how civil you deal with things. If you come out with an arrogant attitude it's one thing. If you're defending your point of view in a civil manner, that's another. You may be called names, but you'll only get called really derogatory ones if you're behaving in that manner (or someone is just out of it).

 

Most sites like this aren't used to dealing with Christians who don't back down and cower. And when they do, they call for their banning.

 

What's sad is how presumptious you are. You've come on here seeming to beg for a banning. Why? What are you so scared of, and/or what is so distressing to you that you feel the need to come on here with such an abrasive attitude?

Why can't you just seek discussion in an affable, open manner?

 

Everything I've read of yours sounds like you're being abrasive for a purpose.

 

I do hope you understand that you're going to raise people's ire simply because many people here just don't tolerate people being bitchy. Personally, I know there's a reason behind why you're acting that way. And it's both intriguing to find out why you are acting like this, and distressing that you feel the need to act this way.

[white_raven23]

Most sites like this aren't used to dealing with Christians who don't back down and cower. And when they do, they call for their banning.

 

Well then welcome to a site where banning is quite rare. Get abusive? We will abuse you right back (though many here will take the higher road, and just ignore you).

 

And neither Amanda nor Open Minded "back down and cower" and they are very welcome christians here.

 

What does the bible say about slandering your brethren?

 

James 4:11

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

 

If you're going to insist on basing your life around a book, it should at least be one you've bothered to READ.

[Amanda]

I can assure you that I don't know who it is, and I'm not going to ban him because I just suspect it. I don't have all the tools to check these things, that's why I can't know for sure. But if he/she gets too annoying, I won't hesitate to ban him/her. I already increased his/her warning level once.

 

HanSolo, hey... my hero... you do know I was NOT meaning anything derrogatory about you as a mod, right?

 

It just seemed to me, IF this was a spoof allowed at a higher level with the administration here... I trust their judgment, even if I can't fathom any good reasoning for it. It seems this poster is too familiar with nick names of some long time members here to be a real newbie. Plus, IMO, this poster doesn't contribute anything, they just like to push buttons to incite discord... initially, like those who sometimes pull a prank here. However, I have never seen a prank last more than a few hours.

 

These posts I have read of this poster, do NOT look genuine. IMO, this is NOT a "message board" to just leave an inflamed message to poke at a few people. This place has been about interacting. I and others here, would be happy to engage in respectful and meaningful dialogue with any sincere "Christian", and there have been many here that are welcomed. This person, IO, has the audacity to say that when we have a Christian that won't back down or cower... we threaten to ban them?

 

Look at his posts, the goal seems to simply provoke others. This person even claims to ba troll! IDK, am I wrong to think this poster is just coming in here and seemingly using everyone for a patsy? I thought it was a joke at first... but hey, when is it enough? If I'm wrong, please let me know... as I respect people's insights here, and I certainly respect yours.

[InspectoGeneral]

IG,

 

You have been arguing that there exists things that are not logical, i.e., somewhere outside of logic and illogic. That would make it A-logic right? I'm am entering your domain and playing inside for this purpose only.

 

Where does A-theism enter in your argument if this is your position? The examples are only used together to show my point based on your statements. Don't go and misunderstand the intent of the example. I could have chosen moral, immoral and A-moral or any combination.

 

You are claiming your knowledge, and putting your faith in it, based on this realm of A-logic.

 

What was your argument again?

 

To say that things are not logical, insists that they are subject to logic or debate. My point is that not all things are subject to being logical or illogical.

 

To illustrate:

 

If God exists, then it is logical to believe He exists.

If God does not exist, then it is logical to not believe He exists.

 

And obviously the converse is true.

 

So whether or not it is logical or illogical to believe in God depends on whether or not God exists.

 

As I have stated earlier, the existence of God is not something that can be deduced by reason. That is why I do not offer up all the arguments for the existence for God. Because in the end it comes down to faith.

 

Humans are have the ability to reason, but we have the ability to do more than reason. We have emotions which are not neccessarily subject to reason. We are also spiritual, although many would use reason to say that we are not. You may disagree that we are spiritual, but then there is no way to measure or test for spirituallity is there. Interesting that Alfred Russell Wallace, who was a contemporary to Darwin, did not believe that man came from monkeys was in part because of man's spirituality.

 

Man has the ability to reason, but that is not the only ability he has. Why is a picture beautiful to one person and not to another? Is that illogical?

 

Why is one kind of music great to one person but junk to another? Is that illogical?

 

Why is one food good to one person but aweful to another? Is that illogical?

 

Obviously the answer is no. I am just saying that man has more senses than reason.

 

Either way, it is convient to say that every thing is logical or illogical, but that is not reality.

 

It's pretty arrogant to suggest that all christians are closed-minded people whose only purpose in life is to recruit for the cult; that only applies to fundies/evangelicals. Those like Open Minded and Amanda are welcomed on this site because they do participate in meaningful discussions, and I think you owe them an apology.

 

 

You do err. My comments were not directed at Christians, but rather those who think that they are owed a visit from Christians. Like people who leave a Church and then complain about the fact that noone came to visit them.

 

What is arrogant though, is to claim that noone else can know something just because you don't know it. It is possible that someone else can know something that you don't.

 

Just because you don't have faith, doesn't mean that other can't. Although you pride yourself on being able to destroy the faith of others. Anyone can criticize and tear down, and that's what this place is about.

[NotBlinded]

To say that things are not logical, insists that they are subject to logic or debate. My point is that not all things are subject to being logical or illogical.

 

To illustrate:

 

If God exists, then it is logical to believe He exists.

If God does not exist, then it is logical to not believe He exists.

 

And obviously the converse is true.

 

So whether or not it is logical or illogical to believe in God depends on whether or not God exists.

 

As I have stated earlier, the existence of God is not something that can be deduced by reason. That is why I do not offer up all the arguments for the existence for God. Because in the end it comes down to faith.

 

Humans are have the ability to reason, but we have the ability to do more than reason. We have emotions which are not neccessarily subject to reason. We are also spiritual, although many would use reason to say that we are not. You may disagree that we are spiritual, but then there is no way to measure or test for spirituallity is there. Interesting that Alfred Russell Wallace, who was a contemporary to Darwin, did not believe that man came from monkeys was in part because of man's spirituality.

 

Man has the ability to reason, but that is not the only ability he has. Why is a picture beautiful to one person and not to another? Is that illogical?

 

Why is one kind of music great to one person but junk to another? Is that illogical?

 

Why is one food good to one person but aweful to another? Is that illogical?

 

Obviously the answer is no. I am just saying that man has more senses than reason.

 

Either way, it is convient to say that every thing is logical or illogical, but that is not reality.

But, spirituality isn't dependent on the existence of God. Atheists can be very spiritual. Ask Antlerman! Religion kills spirituality. There is a thread on spirituality in the Colleseum. You may have to go back a few pages to find it. You might like it.

 

Actually I agree with your sentiments here and thank you for being honest in your response. It's like you took a deep breath and said what you felt instead of what you were fighting against.

 

Anyone can criticize and tear down, and that's what this place is about.

Dang man...see, this is what you are fighting against. We are here to learn and to help others overcome their departure from Christianity. Hasty generalizations only makes you angry at others and the world.

 

Go ahead and read the Spirituality thread and see if you still think this way. There is an active one there now and here is the link to the one I was speaking of: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...hl=spirituality

[InspectoGeneral]

But, spirituality isn't dependent on the existence of God.

 

Thank you for accepting that man is spiritual. Those things that are spiritual are outside the realm of reason.

 

BTW - The tearing down remarks are for those who are still waiting by to tear me down, and they know who they are. A little preemptive rhetoric.

 

Religion kills spirituality.

 

True religion doesn't. But then again, who's to define spirituality and true religion? We can discuss this topic, but come to no definitive conclusion.

[Amanda]

Actually I agree with your sentiments here and thank you for being honest in your response. It's like you took a deep breath and said what you felt instead of what you were fighting against.

 

Anyone can criticize and tear down, and that's what this place is about.

Dang man...see, this is what you are fighting against. We are here to learn and to help others overcome their departure from Christianity. Hasty generalizations only makes you angry at others and the world.

 

Wow... NBBTB... how are you always sooooo smart?

 

Maybe you're right about why this poster has been the way they have been! I couldn't figure it out and it was bugging me! Hasty generalizations creating blatant disregard. Heck, if you can bring out more posts from IO, like the previous one, we may actually be able to learn something from this poster. You and HanSolo are certainly very patient people.

[NotBlinded]

Off topic...IG, I love your avatar! Is that pup a pitty/ridgeback cross? S/he is too cute! I look at it everytime you post.

 

Here's another topic on spirituality: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...hl=spirituality

[NotBlinded]

 

Wow... NBBTB... how are you always sooooo smart?

I'm not...have you read what I posted in the Chicken-shit thread! Not smart at all! Other times I just say stuff and I don't even know what I mean when I say it until after I say it! Outerworldly help maybe? I'm just teasing...I speak from experience on making hasty generalizations.

[Ouroboros]

HanSolo, hey... my hero... you do know I was NOT meaning anything derrogatory about you as a mod, right?

 

I know, and I didn't take it as such. I just wanted to make sure no one started to think that the mods were/are behind this guy/girl.

 

And I figured out why Inspecto got Edit. Because him/her is flagged Regular Member instead of Christian or Apologist. I asked Dave to change the group on him/her. And Edit is going bye-bye.

[Amanda]

To say that things are not logical, insists that they are subject to logic or debate. My point is that not all things are subject to being logical or illogical.

 

To illustrate:

 

If God exists, then it is logical to believe He exists.

If God does not exist, then it is logical to not believe He exists.

 

And obviously the converse is true.

 

Inspecto General, wouldn't it help to define God first? How can we discuss something exists if we do not have at least a mutual idea of him/her/it. BTW, I happen to believe in God too, however, my definition might have some differences to yours.

 

So whether or not it is logical or illogical to believe in God depends on whether or not God exists.

Can there be reasoning to an idea there is an existence of God? I think there can be, although in the end, it may rely on a subjective experience or a matter of definition.

As I have stated earlier, the existence of God is not something that can be deduced by reason. That is why I do not offer up all the arguments for the existence for God. Because in the end it comes down to faith.

Again, there are many theist on this site... we may just characterize God differently than each other. One thing for sure, no one has absolute knowledge there is a God or not behind this fascade, so the faith is as we wish to perceive it. However, why would one suspend logic to believe something that rejects rational reason? Further there may be reason to accept that we are spiritual beings, and the inconclusive evidence can leave each individual to their own choice of interpretations.

 

Man has the ability to reason, but that is not the only ability he has. Why is a picture beautiful to one person and not to another? Is that illogical?

 

Why is one kind of music great to one person but junk to another? Is that illogical?

 

Why is one food good to one person but aweful to another? Is that illogical?

 

Obviously the answer is no. I am just saying that man has more senses than reason.

Exactly! That is why some people like Buddhism, and some people like Taoism, and some like Atheism, and some like Shamanism! It doesn't mean that any choice, including the ones you list here above, are the lazy way, IMO. Laziness seems to be evaluated on an individual basis. There are lazy people and very assertive people in Atheism and Christianity. Let's see who uses effort to come to their conclusions.

Either way, it is convient to say that every thing is logical or illogical, but that is not reality.

Not everything is logical... that is true. However, there are leading theories that are refining and surfacing that are supporting a more logical insight. Do we continue to believe the world is flat in the face of logical findings that seem to support otherwise? What good is a house built on the sand?

 

You do err. My comments were not directed at Christians, but rather those who think that they are owed a visit from Christians. Like people who leave a Church and then complain about the fact that noone came to visit them.

Let's assume that compassion is a big part of connecting with each other. It is greatly associated with empathy, so it IS connecting. If someone gave their heart and soul to a group of people, donating time, energy, love, and money because they cared desperately about their "family" there. Then, when they do leave because maybe the message has become rationally confusing... and no one even comes to visit them in this time of turmoil... I'm curious to know what does that say to you?

 

Just because you don't have faith, doesn't mean that other can't. Although you pride yourself on being able to destroy the faith of others. Anyone can criticize and tear down, and that's what this place is about.

Now IG, that's not true. I use to think that you just said things like that because you were just trying to push buttons... but I guess you have come to some hasty generalizations. I came on this site over a year ago as a Christian and have NEVER even had the suggestion of me being banned, and have found only very supportive people who have expanded my thinking, and I am a better person for it. Most people here are actually trying to help you... and build you up so that you can be even happier than you are now! Calm down my friend, we may actually learn something from you... and you may actually learn something from people here.

[Kuroikaze]

 

Thank you for accepting that man is spiritual. Those things that are spiritual are outside the realm of reason.

 

not necessarily, The Buddha thought his beliefs were very rational, for instance.

 

Now I agree that there are many things about humanity that are not rational, but then I never claimed that I rejected Christianity on a totally rational basses. Many of my reasons were emotional, and I will happily admit that.

 

If your going to regulate religion to mere emotion, however, then my beliefs are equal to yours, if your going to claim that yours are better than mine, then I'm going to need evidence that they are better. If you have a problem with that too bad.

 

And this site is not about tearing down, its about helping people like me deal with the problems created by leaving the religion that is dominant in this culture. I could care less what you believe, however, when you or other Christians get in my face and tell me I'm wrong for not believing as you, then the gloves come off. I don't believe in a god that tells me to turn the other cheek, so I don't.

[Poonis]

They have no position to defend. This is great for debate. You can attack the other guys position, but he can't attack your position. After all when you believe in nothing(as far as God is concerned) you have nothing to defend.

 

How much courage does it take to stand for nothing? None.

How much courage does it take to defend nothing? None.

How much intellect does it take to defend nothing? None.

 

Definitely for the weak.

 

Anything necessitating defense is, by itself, weak. If you follow, this also means anything without necessity of defense is, by itself, strong.

 

If what you believe is indeed true, it is both pointless and unnecessary for you to defend your beliefs or attack others in what they choose to or not to believe.

 

Your god does not exist and never has. Since you started this topic, you show both your desire for your beliefs to be true, and also how weak your beliefs truly are.

 

Good day.

[Ouroboros]

Inspecto General, wouldn't it help to define God first? How can we discuss something exists if we do not have at least a mutual idea of him/her/it.

You're starting to sound like me!

[InspectoGeneral]

Off topic...IG, I love your avatar! Is that pup a pitty/ridgeback cross? S/he is too cute! I look at it everytime you post.

 

She is a Rhodesian Ridgeback. Great dog. Very big too.

[Fweethawt]

You and HanSolo are certainly very patient people.

She wasn't like that before the operation.

 

 

When "she" went by the name, Harold.

[InspectoGeneral]

Inspecto General, wouldn't it help to define God first? How can we discuss something exists if we do not have at least a mutual idea of him/her/it. BTW, I happen to believe in God too, however, my definition might have some differences to yours.

 

 

And what purpose would it serve to describe the God I believe in? Would we compare Him to what ever someone else beleives in? What would be the point of that?

 

Why not state and define what you believe exists?

 

The atheist believes that there is no God. Is it possible to know this? No. There is no way an atheist could verify that there is no God. So it is possible that there is a God.

 

Food for thought.

 

Would you believe me if I told you I was a great artist? Probably not. You would ask me to prove to you that I am a great artist. To do so, I would show you one of my paintings. Then you respond that you do not believe that I painted the painting and that the only way you will believe that I am a great artist is for me to paint in front of you so that you can see and believe for yourself. At this point I am offended. Number one, you have called me a liar because you did not believe me when I told you that the first painting was mine. Number two, because you arrogantly thought that you deserved your own special sitting while I painted a painting just for you. It is at this point I bid you adieu and shoe you the door.

[Lightbearer]

Whoa! You're back, I thought you got bored and left.

 

Very well, let's start addressing your points and posts. First off, you contradicted yourself in a slight way.

 

Why not state and define what you believe exists?

 

I asked you to state your terms a couple of pages ago. I got this' date='

 

If you don't understand plain english' date=' I can't help you. [/quote']

 

and this,

 

The fact that you were unable to comprehend my argument doesn't mean that it wasn't made' date=' only that you were unable to comprehend it. Repeating myself wouldn't raise your level of comprehensioin. [/quote'] (It's spelt "c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n" by the way).

 

So, first off, you insulted (or non-chalantly intended to) me by claiming "athiesm is weak" which is the title of this thread, then you questioned my comprehension abilities and understanding of the language I am using.

 

But alas you apply it to the whole board:

 

Flashback. Is there anyone here that has a basic understanding of english and can address the limitations of logic and reason?

 

I can answere this while examining this post by the way

 

1) Logic and reason have no limitations.

 

2) Is faith a means of acquiring knowledge?

 

3) Can you address the limitations of faith?

 

And it continues with posts like this:

 

LOL. You hurt people's feelings??? You bunch of meanies. Why can't you play nice? I guess being ex- anything makes you mean. That's why there are no ex-Marines' date=' just former marines. Ya'll should try being former Christians, see if that helps.

 

 

BTW - Ya'll are morons. Why would anyone care what you said?? This is a MESSAGE BOARD I TELL YOU. A M-E-S-S-A-G-E B-O-A-R-D!!!!!!!!! [/quote']

 

...and again back to me:

 

When actually I was pointing out that it wasn't logic. That was my point. I will be holding comprehension classes later this week for Lightman' date=' but you can join in too. [/quote']

 

Here is you doing a great job of belittling everyone on the board and again questioning someones comprehension skills, in this case it's Japedo

 

So you actually read my first two posts and then somehow managed to type a coherent post of your own. Wow' date=' I'm impressed. Keep working on those typing skills, they are coming long nicely.

 

Also, some words to live by: If you can't be big, don't belittle.

 

And then you come back preaching about compassion at the same time calling someone a moron, again.

 

Compassion on a message board??????

 

A MESSAGE BOARD??????

 

 

Hey' date=' does anyone have a cup of sugar I can borrow?

 

Sure, here you go.

 

 

People dialoging with one another in a kind tone isn't compassion, it is common courtesy. Although not common here, it is in some parts. If you can't be big, don't belittle.

 

Also, if you're not true to your teeth, they'll be false to you!!!!!!!! Words to live by.

 

Thurisaz-

 

You're a moron.

 

Game over. Please try again. [/quote']

 

.... and this as well...

 

I may be alot of things, but these accusations are preposterous. Some people just can't take a joke.

 

And BTW, none of ya'll were ever actual Christians. Religious maybe, but not Christians.

 

And to blame Christians for not being a Christian is quite shallow. Try taking responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming someone else for a change.

 

So you're accusations of the others and I here as being illiterate, unable to comprehend you, morons and for the athiests, weak is somehow not preposterous

 

Okay, and another question for you? What is a real Christian? Are you a real Christian? Does Christianity promote self-responsibility when your sins are passed on to a martyr to deal with? When entities like the devil can take over your will power and force you do things? How is this not effecting blaming someone else and not taking responsibility for your own actions?

 

That's pretty arrogant to think that real Christians would come here for meaningful discussion. Why would they? To convert you back? It is fairly obvious that noone here has any interest or desire to to be converted.

 

Answer your questions??? Do you really want answers to your questions? Highly unlikely. You enjoy haveing those 'See' date=' none can answer my question' questions. It justifies your position.

 

I haven't made this site a joke. To real Christians, this site is little more than a parody of itself. The feigned interest in serious discussion or debate fades quickly when one begins to read the many posts and exchanges.

 

I posted in the Lion's Den because this is where you site said I should post this kind of exchange. I apologize if the exchange was too much for the thin skinned and easily offended. As with most anti-Christian sites, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. If you really wanted serious discussioin, there are many who would engage. If you really wanted answers, there are many who could provide them. If I am not banned, I will return from time to time for any serious discussion, just send me a message. [/quote']

 

Again you claim knowledge of what a true Christian is and what a true Christian thinks. So I ask you again what is a true Christian and are you a true Christian? I mean that as a serious question for serious discussion.

 

I am a real Christian. This thread was posted to feel things out. Anti-christians are generally very combative. Not all' date=' but many are. [/quote']

 

So your a real Christian but you haven't explained what that is or what that means.

 

I don't know how many quotes I can have before it stops quoting so I am going to start to make my points

 

First off, as I have pointed out you came here calling people weak, unable to comprehend basic things english and morons. You were retailiated for this, and claimed to be mocked. You have no respect, or at least very little of it. So expect the same treatment. Respect is earned, not giving.

 

Let me make an analogy. Christianity has made some people here feel very weak. They still have wounds from the emotional scars. You throw salt on these wounds and when people get upset with it, you claim that you are being mocked and the like. You wonder why? You recent posts are a tad more respectful... but a baseless assertion about athiesm, and irrational generalizations about athiests and the people on this board are not respectful, and can offend people.

 

For instance you claim athiests use reason to say we are not spiritual. I consider myself an athiest. I use reason, not faith. And I am the most spiritual person you will ever meet. Taking air into my lungs to me is spiritual, the fact that I exist is spiritual to me, the fact that the sun rises and I can look at it, experience it and draw emotion from this is spiritual to me.

 

So don't claim that athiests use reason to say we, man, are not spiritual. While some do, I sure as hell don't and your generalizations are idiotic, and I don't tolerate being grouped into those generalizations.

 

But of course, you are a true Christian. Knowledge of God can not be obtained, it's not revelant you say, but you have faith. Using reason to prove God's existinence would not be using faith which you claim God is not dependent upon. However, faith is what it takes to know God, and as you claimed in another thread you know God is a person with feelings like we are. Made in His image.

 

God is not provable, no one can be certain he/she/it/whatever exists and yet somehow you know he/she/it/whatever exists... and don't say you can't be 100% certain of anything because I am 100% certain I exist.

 

Ask yourself again what is a valid means of acquiring knowledge, faith or reason.

 

If you said you were a great artist I would have you prove it. If you showed me your work with your siginature and proof like bank statements if you sold it in your name or not I would believe you because I have no evidence to the contray, if you art work was great. If you said you painted the Mona Lisa I would say your a fraud because it's been proven that Da Vinci did that. If you were really as great as you claimed I would love the honor of watching you paint, just another proof of your artistic genius but you'd kick my ass out the door and call me arrogant.

 

It's amusing that you can't explain God. It exists, but that doesn't matter, and you can't be certain of it. Proof of it's existence means your arrogant.

 

State and define what I believe exists? Sure -- existence exists.