I Use To Have Affairs With Married Christian Women!

[Thackerie]

... The keys to success I found are

1.Be positive about life and have a good outlook. ...

 

Doesn't seem to jive with his comments that cheating, lying, and using people are the norm. Or that love last five years max. Or that most people are abandoned by their children and end up miserable in old age. But if he wants to think he's a positive person with a good outlook, OK, fine.

[PaulQ]

... The keys to success I found are

1.Be positive about life and have a good outlook. ...

 

Doesn't seem to jive with his comments that cheating, lying, and using people are the norm. Or that love last five years max. Or that most people are abandoned by their children and end up miserable in old age. But if he wants to think he's a positive person with a good outlook, OK, fine.

 

Nice catch, Thackerie.

[Seth C Triggs]

Gee, Leaf...I'm so very underwhelmed in awe of your ability to snag spineless, unhappy women. It's even more incredible, this feat, when you consider that they're unhappy and probably think they want the momentary attention from you anyway! Well, keep on truckin,' you've definitely shown this "beta male" that life's all about shoving it in, and not, you know, actually having any emotional connection or some sort of old-fashioned junk like that.

 

-Seth

[Jubilant]

What is amazing is when a man can keep a woman sexually interested for years, even decades on end.

 

Right on! Another amazing aspect is when after that amount of time, you can still find new positions, techniques, etc. to keep things alive and kickin'. Yesterday DH fulfilled a simple fantasy of mine and I went absolutely INSANE; he wore a loincloth for me It didn't stay on very long though.

[white_raven23]

It will be great when the fundies get done with their holidays and come back to play with us. 9 pages devoted to some hack who treats the use of his dick like something totally novel and cool.

 

Seasonal boredom. That's all.

 

 

I got some great stuff this year!

[heschel]

Ukraine is weak.

[Open_Minded]

It will be great when the fundies get done with their holidays and come back to play with us. 9 pages devoted to some hack who treats the use of his dick like something totally novel and cool.

 

Seasonal boredom. That's all.

If you're really interested in taking on a fundy - check out this thread....

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&a...st&p=243241

 

This guy's even further out in LaLa land than Leaf.

[Dianka]

Trancelation

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you got your psychology degree out of a crackerjack box or if you've come to the disasterous conclusion that you are somehow an expert on psychoanalysis on your own. Since there's a full-blown shitstorm out here I may as well say it. Did you stop to think that it's 1.) incredibly cruel to dissect people and carelessly label people around others, and 2.) incredibly fucking stupid to lable someone with a personality disorder when they don't have it? Enough with the goddamned Freudian bullshit! And people, stop fuckin encouraging this pseudo-threapist. It's not insightful, it's not telling, it's not even remotely fucking accurate.

 

 

Ahem,

 

thank you

 

[Amethyst]

You should use Firefox (if you don't already). Whenever you want to do that, just press Ctrl+Shift+Delete and it will erase everything you tell it to. I know that I could still view the forums under Firefox without logging in, even after erasing everything.

 

I can't use Firefox on my work laptop.

[Trancelation]

Trancelation

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you got your psychology degree out of a crackerjack box or if you've come to the disasterous conclusion that you are somehow an expert on psychoanalysis on your own. Since there's a full-blown shitstorm out here I may as well say it. Did you stop to think that it's 1.) incredibly cruel to dissect people and carelessly label people around others, and 2.) incredibly fucking stupid to lable someone with a personality disorder when they don't have it? Enough with the goddamned Freudian bullshit! And people, stop fuckin encouraging this pseudo-threapist. It's not insightful, it's not telling, it's not even remotely fucking accurate.

 

 

Ahem,

 

thank you

 

To answer your inquiry: a crackerjack box. The crackerjacks within, it seemed, had gender disphoria.

[PaulQ]

Trancelation

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you got your psychology degree out of a crackerjack box or if you've come to the disasterous conclusion that you are somehow an expert on psychoanalysis on your own. Since there's a full-blown shitstorm out here I may as well say it. Did you stop to think that it's 1.) incredibly cruel to dissect people and carelessly label people around others, and 2.) incredibly fucking stupid to lable someone with a personality disorder when they don't have it? Enough with the goddamned Freudian bullshit! And people, stop fuckin encouraging this pseudo-threapist. It's not insightful, it's not telling, it's not even remotely fucking accurate.

 

 

Ahem,

 

thank you

 

To answer your inquiry: a crackerjack box. The crackerjacks within, it seemed, had gender disphoria.

 

 

Yes; one can obtain all manner of great stuff from the bottom of a Cracker Jack box; including all manner of licences. It is how I obtained my driver's license, or so I've been told. However, you'll never find a Coupe de Ville at the bottom of one; apparently, it's one of the shortcomings of Cracker Jacks.

[PaulQ]

I have to comment on something here. I don't for one minute say that for one minute that our friend Leaf is being 100 % precisely accurate. I don't believe him to be intentionally 100% lying either. Some embellishment is what every human being does to one extent or another. What I do have to say is that there is ALOT of misunderstanding going on here. Most of the people jumping on Leaf have not been outside of the USA or Canada. Most have never been to Russia, Ukraine, or any other country with a different culture that is that much different than where they grew up. Leaf is simply being like most guys from the part of the world he lives in. Most of you are being provincial and unknowingly arrogant. Does that mean I act that way now where I live in the Souteastern USA?....Ah no. Does that mean I think we all should?....not if you want to have any friends where you live. Does that mean he is doing wrong by where he lives?....NO. Cmon people, THINK about the way you appear when coming across to others around the world who log on here. Try cutting people some slack. Thank you....

 

In other words; do some European cultures encourage the men to treat their women like crap? Of course. Does it make it right? About as much as it is right for certain mid-east cultures to behead those who don't believe as they do. We Atheists would be burned crispy or dangling from the end of a rope right now if someone in our own culture didn't stand up for us at some point in time. We cannot simply stand by and accept inhumanity in any way, shape or form simply to respect someone's culture; if this world is to be a better place tomorrow than it is today, we need to challenge those old repressive cultural ideals at every opportunity.

[LostOrFound]

I have to comment on something here. I don't for one minute say that for one minute that our friend Leaf is being 100 % precisely accurate. I don't believe him to be intentionally 100% lying either. Some embellishment is what every human being does to one extent or another. What I do have to say is that there is ALOT of misunderstanding going on here. Most of the people jumping on Leaf have not been outside of the USA or Canada. Most have never been to Russia, Ukraine, or any other country with a different culture that is that much different than where they grew up. Leaf is simply being like most guys from the part of the world he lives in. Most of you are being provincial and unknowingly arrogant. Does that mean I act that way now where I live in the Souteastern USA?....Ah no. Does that mean I think we all should?....not if you want to have any friends where you live. Does that mean he is doing wrong by where he lives?....NO. Cmon people, THINK about the way you appear when coming across to others around the world who log on here. Try cutting people some slack. Thank you....

 

In other words; do some European cultures encourage the men to treat their women like crap? Of course. Does it make it right? About as much as it is right for certain mid-east cultures to behead those who don't believe as they do. We Atheists would be burned crispy or dangling from the end of a rope right now if someone in our own culture didn't stand up for us at some point in time. We cannot simply stand by and accept inhumanity in any way, shape or form simply to respect someone's culture; if this world is to be a better place tomorrow than it is today, we need to challenge those old repressive cultural ideals at every opportunity.

 

Ditto that....

 

and, I'm growing weary of being told that Americans know nothing about other cultures. As if everyone in Europe and Asia is so well traveled and sophisticated. Bullshit!

 

I don't give a rat's ass where a person is from, it is simply unacceptible to treat others in a self-serving, shitty manner - PERIOD.

 

If getting your rocks off with every skirt that passes is a sign of worldly sophistication, I'll pass.

[Vigile]

In other words; do some European cultures encourage the men to treat their women like crap? Of course. Does it make it right? About as much as it is right for certain mid-east cultures to behead those who don't believe as they do.

 

The problem here is your interpretation of the sanctity of marriage. You assume that because he has cheated with married women that he is treating women like crap. The conclusion doesn't follow. Both parties in the mix want sex. They both get what they want. In your culture this does great damage to a marriage, where Leaf lives it happens all the time and is much more accepted. It would be highly unusual if the married woman he cheated with did not also have a spouse that has cheated on her.

[Vigile]

and, I'm growing weary of being told that Americans know nothing about other cultures. As if everyone in Europe and Asia is so well traveled and sophisticated. Bullshit!

 

I don't give a rat's ass where a person is from, it is simply unacceptible to treat others in a self-serving, shitty manner - PERIOD.

 

If getting your rocks off with every skirt that passes is a sign of worldly sophistication, I'll pass.

 

Americans go a long way in bringing that condemnation on themselves.

 

Again, you are judging him based on your value system. Did I miss the class where they explained how there are absolute values we must all adhere to?

[Jubilant]

Maybe I'm wrong but my only complaint is that if a persons spouse doesn't know that an affair is going on, then that is wrong (IMO) because of broken trust and they are also being unfairly put at risk for possible STD's. If you want to sex outside of marriage, by all means, knock yourself out but when you want to have your cake and eat it too, behind a committed spouses back...then that makes a person a heal and a coward...at least in my book. Also, if the one cheating (behind a spouses back) has children as well, then that doesn't sit well with me. The other partner in the marriage has a right to know so that they can either choose to stay or choose to leave. Not telling them because the one having sex outside marriage wants someone to fall back on, who will always be there, is sneaky, slimy and underhanded...in my NOT so very humble opinion.

[Thackerie]

Maybe I'm wrong but my only complaint is that if a persons spouse doesn't know that an affair is going on, then that is wrong (IMO) because of broken trust and they are also being unfairly put at risk for possible STD's. If you want to sex outside of marriage, by all means, knock yourself out but when you want to have your cake and eat it too, behind a committed spouses back...then that makes a person a heal and a coward...at least in my book. Also, if the one cheating (behind a spouses back) has children as well, then that doesn't sit well with me. The other partner in the marriage has a right to know so that they can either choose to stay or choose to leave. Not telling them because the one having sex outside marriage wants someone to fall back on, who will always be there, is sneaky, slimy and underhanded...in my NOT so very humble opinion.

 

I agree entirely. I don't think that being an ex-christian means one has no right to comment on issues of morality or character, and if someone wants to insinuate that this means I am therefore a provincial hick who lacks their superior worldview and just doesn't understand those oh-so-sophisticated Europeans, they're entitled to their opinion -- as are we all. That is, I think, what Internet forums are for.

[Vigile]

I agree entirely. I don't think that being an ex-christian means one has no right to comment on issues of morality or character, and if someone wants to insinuate that this means I am therefore a provincial hick who lacks their superior worldview and just doesn't understand those oh-so-sophisticated Europeans, they're entitled to their opinion -- as are we all. That is, I think, what Internet forums are for.

 

In my opinion Europeans do not have a "superior" view on the issue of marriage or cheating. The only area where the idea of a superior view would come in would be in a willingness to understand that others may not see things the way that you or I do and accept that even if you don't adopt their ideas. I've mainly been trying to get across the point that cheating on one's spouse over here does not do the same damage to a marriage or one's trust that the same action does in the US.

[Leaf]

Jubilant,

Most people that have affairs just don't tell all they know...Matter of fact most people dont tell all tehy know...That doesnt say they are lies....On commitments...What makes marriage so sacred? Religion!!! Or the fact that someone deemed it sacred. 96% of all animals are non-monygamous..We humans are hardly any differnt even though we like to puff ourselves up and pretend to be.

The other partner in the marriage has a right to know so that they can either choose to stay or choose to leave.

It is quit clear you have never had a affair!

Not telling them because the one having sex outside marriage wants someone to fall back on, who will always be there, is sneaky, slimy and underhanded...in my NOT so very humble opinion.

I said along time ago that I live on the planet earth....You people must not get out much!

[Jubilant]

Jubilant,

Most people that have affairs just don't tell all they know...

 

Why? Because they'll get caught? Because their partner may boot them out? Because they won't have a place to live? Because their children may be taken away?

 

 

Matter of fact most people dont tell all tehy know...

Get out!!!!

 

 

That doesnt say they are lies

 

No kidding, but when one person believes that the other person is the only one that they are having sex with, or in a relationship with, and the one "omitting" the fact that there are others is telling their partner that they are the only one...it most certainly is a lie. Not only that but again, if my husband is screwing around on me with a person I don't know and in turn coming home and having sex with me...it is no different than me having sex with that person. If something were to happen to the condom or the other woman has AIDS and my hubby didn't know and in turn gets it and then in turn gives it to me then he is

responsible for giving me AIDS...you get the point. Whereas if I had known and was okay with an affair then the chips fall where they may.

 

 

....On commitments...What makes marriage so sacred?

Last I recalled marriage was a CHOICE in most areas of the world. Unless someone is standing over you holding a gun to you and forcing you to make promises to someone that you'd rather not make promises to, it is a choice whether or not to make a commitment. Gone are the days of forced/arranged marriages as well and for most people they make a CHOICE to commit.

 

96% of all animals are non-monygamous.

 

Animals can't lie, cheat. Humans are capable of making decisions. If you don't want to be with one person then don't be. Religion has nothing to do with it. I'm not saying that it is moral to be monogymous, or immoral to be non-monygamous; I don't believe that anyone here has said this.

 

Don't most mammals mate to maintain the species? Humans are 6 billion strong so why mate at all? Unless something happened to where the numbers greatly dwindled there really isn't a need for the human mammal to mate other than to have a good time. So have a good time, but one doesn't need to deceive another human in order to do that.

 

Most male animals mate as many different females as possible in order to ensure that their offspring are strong ? So, are you (being the *alpha* male that you are) out to impregnate and ensure that your *seed*is spread? No, of course not because then you'd be responsible for two many offspring and unless you're a millionare, more than likely you couldn't afford that. Comparing us to other mammals is okay for somethings, but not as an excuse to LIE and hurt the emotions of someone that holds them dear.

 

 

.We humans are hardly any differnt even though we like to puff ourselves up and pretend to be.

Seems to me you've been puffing yourself up in the opposite direction. I'm not puffing or pretending to be anything, I just don't think that it is fair to the person left in the dark. If standing up for people not getting emotionally hurt is wrong then I don't want to be right. Not like anyone here is calling for punishment on the part of the deceiver, we're just defending the other person who is being cheated on.

 

The other partner in the marriage has a right to know so that they can either choose to stay or choose to leave.

It is quit clear you have never had a affair!

 

Right and I do not desire to have one either.

 

 

I said along time ago that I live on the planet earth....

And we all live on planet?????

 

You people must not get out much!

 

PFFT, whatever.

[Open_Minded]

Jubilant,

Most people that have affairs just don't tell all they know...

 

Why? Because they'll get caught? Because their partner may boot them out? Because they won't have a place to live? Because their children may be taken away? <snip - for space only>

 

PFFT, whatever.

 

THANK YOU JUBILANT - I couldn't agree more. Every word you wrote hits the point. What bothers me here is Leaf's complete lack of conscious when it comes to intentionally participating in deception.

 

Trust is extremely important - if that is broken in ANY relationship whether between spouses, partners, parents/children, siblings, friends or whomever .... then the relationship is in jeapordy. Intentionally participating in breaking that trust is slimey. I don't give a damn what country you live in. Trust is trust - if you don't want to be in committed relationship then don't marry someone - or marry a swinger and be honest about what you're doing.

[euphgeek]

Matter of fact most people dont tell all tehy know...

Get out!!!!

Since Leaf isn't a native English speaker, he may not know that that's sarcasm.

That doesnt say they are lies

 

No kidding, but when one person believes that the other person is the only one that they are having sex with, or in a relationship with, and the one "omitting" the fact that there are others is telling their partner that they are the only one...it most certainly is a lie. Not only that but again, if my husband is screwing around on me with a person I don't know and in turn coming home and having sex with me...it is no different than me having sex with that person. If something were to happen to the condom or the other woman has AIDS and my hubby didn't know and in turn gets it and then in turn gives it to me then he is responsible for giving me AIDS...you get the point. Whereas if I had known and was okay with an affair then the chips fall where they may.

Right. It's the cheating spouse that's being dishonest, not the person they're having the affair with. Let me ask you this, say you're a woman who is married to and has kids with a well-known preacher in a small town. You got married when you were young, and people treat you with respect because you're the preacher's wife. The sex is routine and boring. Then one day you meet a young man who makes you feel things you never thought possible. Do you a.) give up your marriage and therefore your respect in the community, not to mention your children to run off with this young man, knowing that you probably won't be the only one he's with or do you b.) have a discreet but torrid affair with the man with the added bonus excitement of doing something "naughty" while knowing that if your husband ever found out he'd try to sweep it under the rug so as not to jeopardize his standing in the community?

 

It's one thing to stand on hypothetical principle and say "I would never do that," but if faced with the decision, most people would choose b. It's human nature. That's not to say that it's right or wrong, but to blame the other man for an affair that was practically inevitable, I feel is just ridiculous.

....On commitments...What makes marriage so sacred?

Last I recalled marriage was a CHOICE. Unless someone is standing over you holding a gun to your throat and forcing you to make promises to someone that you'd rather not make promises to.

Some marriages are like that, figuratively. Someone gets married at a young age to someone their parents expect them to marry and they don't figure out they weren't in love until many years and children later.

 

Jubilant,

Most people that have affairs just don't tell all they know...

 

Why? Because they'll get caught? Because their partner may boot them out? Because they won't have a place to live? Because their children may be taken away?

Exactly. That's a real concern for a lot of people.

[Jubilant]

Right. It's the cheating spouse that's being dishonest, not the person they're having the affair with.

 

Unless of course the mister/mistress is a friend of the person to whom the cheating is being done.

 

 

Let me ask you this, say you're a woman who is married to and has kids with a well-known preacher in a small town. You got married when you were young, and people treat you with respect because you're the preacher's wife. The sex is routine and boring. Then one day you meet a young man who makes you feel things you never thought possible. Do you a.) give up your marriage and therefore your respect in the community, not to mention your children to run off with this young man, knowing that you probably won't be the only one he's with or do you b.) have a discreet but torrid affair with the man with the added bonus excitement of doing something "naughty" while knowing that if your husband ever found out he'd try to sweep it under the rug so as not to jeopardize his standing in the community?

Only two choices? What about © or do you stay in your marriage and forget about everything because your family is the most important thing to you and there is no way that you would jeapordize that.

 

It's one thing to stand on hypothetical principle and say "I would never do that," but if faced with the decision, most people would choose b. It's human nature.

 

Knowing myself as I do, I would more than likely choose c). HOWEVER...I cannot to truly *know* the answer because I've never been in anything close to that kind of situation. Perhaps it'd be best to hear from someone who has been.

 

That's not to say that it's right or wrong, but to blame the other man for an affair that was practically inevitable, I feel is just ridiculous.

I only blame the one doing the deceiving, unless of course it is a situation where say a woman is being emotionally/physically abused by her husband. If she can get away with feeling good in the arms of another man, I'd say go for it in hopes of her leaving the scumbag abuser.

 

....On commitments...What makes marriage so sacred?

Last I recalled marriage was a CHOICE. Unless someone is standing over you holding a gun to your throat and forcing you to make promises to someone that you'd rather not make promises to.

 

Some marriages are like that, figuratively. Someone gets married at a young age to someone their parents expect them to marry and they don't figure out they weren't in love until many years and children later.

True but I think that for most of us, that isn't true. I didn't marry until I was 21 years old and it wasn't because it was expected, same with my dh.

 

Jubilant,

Most people that have affairs just don't tell all they know...

 

Why? Because they'll get caught? Because their partner may boot them out? Because they won't have a place to live? Because their children may be taken away?

Exactly. That's a real concern for a lot of people.

 

Of course...looking out for numero uno, right?

[Open_Minded]

In other words; do some European cultures encourage the men to treat their women like crap? Of course. Does it make it right? About as much as it is right for certain mid-east cultures to behead those who don't believe as they do. We Atheists would be burned crispy or dangling from the end of a rope right now if someone in our own culture didn't stand up for us at some point in time. We cannot simply stand by and accept inhumanity in any way, shape or form simply to respect someone's culture; if this world is to be a better place tomorrow than it is today, we need to challenge those old repressive cultural ideals at every opportunity.

THANK YOU DIGITAL.....

 

For me - it's quite simple.

• Is there deception going on?
  
• Is someone getting hurt - or in danger of getting hurt?
  
• Are you knowingly participating in the process?
  

It's not about what culture you're from. If you participate in using &/or hurting other human beings than your actions are slimely. I don't care if every other person in your culture is doing it - that doesn't make it right.

 

By that reasoning we could excuse Americans for wasting natural resources.

 

It's not right for Americans to be one of the major (if not THEE major) contributor to greenhouse gases and global warming. Just because the majority of Americans are wasteful in the way that they use natural resources - does not excuse each of us individually from making decisions about these issues. If someone is getting hurt (in this situation the entire planet is getting hurt) - it's NOT appropriate and it is WRONG.

 

or....

 

Just because the majority of students in my kids highschool have tried drugs, alcohol or premature sex does not mean it is appropriate behavior. If someone is getting hurt - it's NOT appropriate and participating is WRONG.

 

It just goes back to something my parents used to ask me when I was a kid - "If your friends told you to jump off a bridge - would you do it"?

 

Hiding behind, "well everyone does it" is immature behavior. It completely ignores the fact that people are getting hurt and you are participating in the process of hurting those people.

[PaulQ]

The problem here is your interpretation of the sanctity of marriage. You assume that because he has cheated with married women that he is treating women like crap. The conclusion doesn't follow. Both parties in the mix want sex. They both get what they want. In your culture this does great damage to a marriage, where Leaf lives it happens all the time and is much more accepted. It would be highly unusual if the married woman he cheated with did not also have a spouse that has cheated on her.

 

In nearly every modern culture I've encountered, even European ones, marriage is an agreement between two people to remain monogamous and committed to each other. When one has sexual relations with a third, that is a breach of that agreement, unless the couple have made a prior agreement with each other; in which case, I would think Leaf would have made that obvious. He did not. While the woman and Leaf may have got what they wanted, a good possibility exists where her partner will be hurt by her betrayal of trust. Even though Leaf did not commit the crime, he did aid and abet; much along the lines of the driver of the getaway car for a bank robbery aided and abetted those who actually committed the crime.

 

Again, you are judging him based on your value system. Did I miss the class where they explained how there are absolute values we must all adhere to?

 

Actually, Leaf is guilty of doing just that; he judged everybody here based on his value system, establishing himself as the "Alpha male" while the rest of us "Jack off and watch porn", so he now reaps what he sows. The other Alpha males have decided to now challenge him.

 

Sounds to me as if some people posting on this string may have left Fundy churches but the have not stopped being Fundies. They may not be Bible Fundies but they sure are cultural Fundies. They have to be everybody's mother hen.

 

Not quite. You see, nobody forces a person to get married in our culture. You want to sleep around with multiple partners? By all means; go ahead. I'll be the last person to ever get in your way. However, when you get married, you've made a commitment to that person you married. Not a religious one; a human one. Unless that person gives their consent, it's generally accepted that this sort of behaviour is now "Off limits." Decide you suddenly don't want the commitment anymore and want to sleep around? Be honest with your partner, then, and give them the opportunity to make a decision on what they want to do. You at least owe that much to them, and it's usually what this thing called divorce is for. Others are more open-minded and enjoy the swinging lifestyle. I'm not against sleeping around; I am against people being mislead and mistreated. This is something religion does to people all the time.

 

What makes marriage so sacred? Religion!!! Or the fact that someone deemed it sacred.

 

What makes any contract in our society sacred? It sure as heck ain't religion. Marriage is simply another contract.

 

96% of all animals are non-monygamous..We humans are hardly any differnt even though we like to puff ourselves up and pretend to be.

 

96% of all animals also do not get married. If you think you are no different, then why did you bother getting married yourself, Leaf? Nobody forced you to get married, did they? DID THEY?