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I Use To Have Affairs With Married Christian Women!


Leaf
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Actually, Leaf is guilty of doing just that; he judged everybody here based on his value system, establishing himself as the "Alpha male" while the rest of us "Jack off and watch porn", so he now reaps what he sows. The other Alpha males have decided to now challenge him.

 

I'll give you that.

 

What makes any contract in our society sacred? It sure as heck ain't religion. Marriage is simply another contract.

 

So is speeding. Do you speed? Do you get mad at other people who speed (assuming they are not putting you in jeopardy at the time)? Do you lie to the cop when you get pulled over for speeding? Better, do you slow down when you see a cop in order to hide the fact that you were speeding?

 

The point is that contracts and breaches have degrees of impact. A lot of the judgement here is based on the impact of a breached marriage contract in the US, which I can assure you is wholey different from a similar breach over here; at least for many people. Sex outside of marriage isn't necessarily a deal breaker for many people in other cultures.

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Nope.

 

Dead Horse.

 

Going to go have affairs? Whatever. Going to brag about it? *Yawn* Whatever. Going to insult the people you've slept with for cheating when you are the one they are cheating with? Uhm.....that is what makes someone a rude low-life.

 

That makes this thread about as "spicy" as uncooked tofu. IMO.

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The problem here is your interpretation of the sanctity of marriage. You assume that because he has cheated with married women that he is treating women like crap. The conclusion doesn't follow. Both parties in the mix want sex. They both get what they want. In your culture this does great damage to a marriage, where Leaf lives it happens all the time and is much more accepted. It would be highly unusual if the married woman he cheated with did not also have a spouse that has cheated on her.

Alright, I'm going to back-peddle here and do an about-face. My objection all along has been the issue of trust being violated, BUT if culturally speaking marriage, and extra-marital participation is something that is understood as promising to remain "faithful" (quote, unquote, wink, wink, nod, nod) on both parties part, then when affairs happen it doesn't carry the same level of a violation of trust as it does here. In this sense it's "consensual", without being stated explicitly. If one of the parties understands this unspoken rule of "fidelity" is part of the culture and absolutely does not want that in their marriage, then that needs to be made extremely clear, considering "infidelity" is an unspoken norm.

 

Since "fidelity" within marriage is not on the same level as here, then it would be wrong for us to judge them by our standards of fidelity in marriage, or expect them to value it the same way we do. There is no external definition of how these things should be, and people adapt what works for them.

 

It would be wrong of us to impose how we view marriage should be on their culture. If everyone understands this as an unspoken practice that is not a huge deal that violates trust, then fidelity is not as binding as it is here. Things like this are adopted by cultures because it works for them, just as what we adopt works for us.

 

What I said about trust and violating trust still holds true, but in light of “fidelity” in marriage not holding the same position as it does here, that violation is more “a misdemeanor” than a felony.

 

Leaf likes to boast that he's "got the goods", which is probably also part of his cultural expression of being manly. It's not how I choose to present myself to the world in this culture, but it puts things into a slightly different context for me. I was criticizing him by our culture, which I had been assuming he was a part of.

 

P.S. Sorry Leaf I got as harsh on you as I did. I didn't understand there were cultural differences. I may not agree with how things are done in that culture, but I won't pass judgement on how things are done elsewhere without living in their shoes first.

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Actually, Leaf is guilty of doing just that; he judged everybody here based on his value system, establishing himself as the "Alpha male" while the rest of us "Jack off and watch porn", so he now reaps what he sows. The other Alpha males have decided to now challenge him.

 

I'll give you that.

 

What makes any contract in our society sacred? It sure as heck ain't religion. Marriage is simply another contract.

 

So is speeding. Do you speed? Do you get mad at other people who speed (assuming they are not putting you in jeopardy at the time)? Do you lie to the cop when you get pulled over for speeding? Better, do you slow down when you see a cop in order to hide the fact that you were speeding?

 

The point is that contracts and breaches have degrees of impact. A lot of the judgement here is based on the impact of a breached marriage contract in the US, which I can assure you is wholey different from a similar breach over here; at least for many people. Sex outside of marriage isn't necessarily a deal breaker for many people in other cultures.

 

I think that may be the 'clincher', so to speak. That is, the level of harm done by any given action. I am getting the impression that some are saying that there is NO harm done to ANYONE when a married person cheats (funny that this is the word used by everyone???) 'over there'. Others are saying, perhaps, that the DAMAGE is not as great 'over there' as it is 'over here in the USA'.

 

I would contend that ANY HARM to an unwilling, uninformed party makes the act objectionable and therefore wrong. One might say that in some cultures people are perfectly content with only 2 fingers per hand and therefore it is quite alright to chop off 3 fingers. Oh sure, there is harm but not nearly as much harm as there would be in a culture where 5 fingers were needed. -- Absurd? Yes, but I think it illustrates my point.

 

To suggest that it is okay to cheat 'over there' because it won't necessarily destroy the marriage seems absurd in itself. If the 'offended' party doesn't really mind then why not tell them you are going to cheat? That said, I reject the notion that cheating is perfectly acceptable to most married people in any given culture.... I simply am not buying that notion. It may not be a proverbial 'deal breaker' in many of the marriages but that does not mean that another HUMAN BEING hasn't been harmed.

 

My 'moral code' is to cause no harm to any other as much as within me is possible. If that makes me a 'fundie' in anyone's book, then so be it.... guilty as charged.

 

Bottom line is that if NO ONE was harmed then why did Leaf boast of being party to the 'sin' of these christian women to begin with. If the husbands didn't mind that their wives were 'cheating' then there is no foul. But, alas, we ALL KNOW that the husbands WERE HARMED by the infidelity and we all know that Leaf was/is party to the harming every bit as much as if the women had stabbed a knife into their mate's heart and the knife had been provided by Leaf to do so. All the dancing around the 'difference in cultures' is pure bullshit and I think everyone knows it.

 

In fact, this discussion prompted me to try and do a little research into their culture and I could find NOTHING that indicates that marital infidelity is commonly accepted over there. It does seem that people do not outwardly 'judge' (for lack of a better word) those who participate as much as we do in our culture but I can find nothing that indicates that, on the whole, they think it is perfectly okay. Honesty and fidelity in relationships (not just marriage) is foundational in every society. It is absolutely essential to avoid chaos.

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Since Leaf isn't a native English speaker, he may not know that that's sarcasm.

 

I think he's American if I follow correctly.

 

Yeah about me I was a Army Reservest for 10 years went to college mave a major in history and minor in human relations. Since 2001 I have pretty much lived in the Ukraine..I did live 6 months in Sweden "which had to be the most boring place I ever lived in!" I love living in the former USSR and plan to get a perminent residence here.

 

I do believe he is from American culture so English is probably his native language. Who would know sarcasm better than a "playa"? ;)

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Leaf likes to boast that he's "got the goods", which is probably also part of his cultural expression of being manly. It's not how I choose to present myself to the world in this culture, but it puts things into a slightly different context for me. I was criticizing him by our culture, which I had been assuming he was a part of.

 

P.S. Sorry Leaf I got as harsh on you as I did. I didn't understand there were cultural differences. I may not agree with how things are done in that culture, but I won't pass judgement on how things are done elsewhere without living in their shoes first.

Antlerman, isn't this guy as American as you or I? He's been in Ukraine since 2001 from what he said. I may have missed something somewhere though.

 

He just likes the way their shoes feel on his feet and their women on his ... well, you know. :)

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What makes any contract in our society sacred? It sure as heck ain't religion. Marriage is simply another contract.

 

So is speeding. Do you speed? Do you get mad at other people who speed (assuming they are not putting you in jeopardy at the time)? Do you lie to the cop when you get pulled over for speeding? Better, do you slow down when you see a cop in order to hide the fact that you were speeding?

 

The point is that contracts and breaches have degrees of impact. A lot of the judgement here is based on the impact of a breached marriage contract in the US, which I can assure you is wholey different from a similar breach over here; at least for many people. Sex outside of marriage isn't necessarily a deal breaker for many people in other cultures.

 

I never once signed a contract that stated I will not speed while driving. I did not go down to the police station and affirm to the officers that I would always abide by the posted speed limit at all times. The point of the matter is, the entire concept of a marriage is that commitment to one another. While sex outside of marriage isn't necessarily a deal-breaker in some cultures, my mother-in-law, who is most definitely Ukrainian and lives her life according to the old ways, has made it quite clear that in Ukranian culture, sex outside of marriage is a terribly shameful thing that causes the other spouse a great deal of mental pain and anguish.

 

To use your speeding analogy that you seem to be fond of, it would be a similar case if my wife and I made a pact with each other to never speed while driving; I made her affirm and sign a contract promising never to speed, then I go out and speed whenever I think she won't find out. To expect certain behaviour from her and agreeing to do the same then not fulfilling my end of the commitment is misleading and wrong. Once she finds out I'm speeding, what will she think? It wasn't the act of speeding; rather, the betrayal of trust that is hurtful. If I decided I wanted to speed, it would be far better for me to tell her that I wouldn't mind speeding once in a while and wouldn't mind if she did also beforehand. To facilitate someone to betray the trust of their spouse is just as bad.

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Antlerman, isn't this guy as American as you or I? He's been in Ukraine since 2001 from what he said. I may have missed something somewhere though.

 

He just likes the way their shoes feel on his feet and their women on his ... well, you know. :)

It was pointed out to me that you would be surprised just how much we adapt to other culture's views on things when we've lived there awhile. Add to this if you're a young person trying to fit into a culture, you will adopt their views quite readily. It's not like you or me who are really established in our views and core values, but even so, if I were to be a part of another culture for 5 years, I can pretty much guarantee my perspectives would change.

 

As far as this cultural view being misogynistic, look at our culture. Are we truly respectful of women as equals? Hardly. Does this make it right for them? Of course not, but think about it from their perspective: who are we to point a finger at their inequalities? When was the last time you checked out the pay equality in our country for women? Is it equal? What about comments by men referring to their spouse as "the wife", or "the little woman", or "little ladies," etc, etc, etc. Our culture is rife with gender and racial inequalities. I don't think we are in a position to judge male bravado in Italy, or Spain, etc.

 

Do I support Leaf in his exploits? No. Not at all, but he is part of a culture that views sex in marriage much differently than us and the impact it has on me is coming from how I relate to my culture. In fact there are many people in this culture that view sex in marriage different than the mainstream. And our mainstream tries to reign in it's own members through ridicule, social ostracization, media slander, etc. If this is their norm there, it is no more correct for us to judge them, than it is for a Christian to judge our morality based on the Bible. If people are being victimized however.... that's different, but all I'm hearing now is a difference in cultural values. A man would be just as much "cheated on" as a woman.

 

I may be wrong in all this, but if what I am hearing is accurate, then what I am saying makes sense to me.

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If people are being victimized however.... that's different, but all I'm hearing now is a difference in cultural values.

 

 

Digital.....

The point of the matter is, the entire concept of a marriage is that commitment to one another. While sex outside of marriage isn't necessarily a deal-breaker in some cultures, my mother-in-law, who is most definitely Ukrainian and lives her life according to the old ways, has made it quite clear that in Ukranian culture, sex outside of marriage is a terribly shameful thing that causes the other spouse a great deal of mental pain and anguish.

 

My guess is that people are being victimized and Leaf damn well knows it. He's just rationalizing his destructive behavior on a public forum. I don't intend to participate in that rationalization - deception and hurting other people is wrong - I don't care what country you live in. :shrug:

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Well, if cheating is the cultural "norm" then I suppose it must go something like this:

 

Man and woman get married. All is fine for a few years but she starts to get bored in bed. Along comes Leaf, "the chick magnet." They happen to bump into each other at the local bistro and she finds his bravado simply irresistible. She can't help herself so she strips and fucks him that very afternoon.

 

That evening over dinner hubby notices a certain glow in her cheeks that's been missing for awhile. He smiles, chuckles and says, "Did you get fucked today? You lucky girl you!" She says, "Why yes. I met this wonderful young stud and he made me feel like I've never felt before. He is so much more the man than you are dear."

 

Since hubby is a sophisticated Eastern European, he most assuredly is delighted for her and says, "You simply must give me this young studs number so I can invite him out for a drink. Perhaps he can teach me how to please you too. This is surely our lucky day!"

 

Hmmmm......... yeah, right! It's the social norm which we repressed Americans just fail to understand.

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My Ukrainian mother-in-law wanted me to stress the point that extra-marital affairs are NOT condone nor accepted in the Ukraine; if anything, it is actually less socially acceptable than it is in North America.

 

From the horses mouth, so to speak. ;)

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If people are being victimized however.... that's different, but all I'm hearing now is a difference in cultural values.

 

 

Digital.....

The point of the matter is, the entire concept of a marriage is that commitment to one another. While sex outside of marriage isn't necessarily a deal-breaker in some cultures, my mother-in-law, who is most definitely Ukrainian and lives her life according to the old ways, has made it quite clear that in Ukranian culture, sex outside of marriage is a terribly shameful thing that causes the other spouse a great deal of mental pain and anguish.

 

My guess is that people are being victimized and Leaf damn well knows it. He's just rationalizing his destructive behavior on a public forum. I don't intend to participate in that rationalization - deception and hurting other people is wrong - I don't care what country you live in. :shrug:

Just to try to be understanding of what several others have indicated, is it possible that this is a part of the modern culture and the story of the mother-in-law would be very much reflective of an older generation, much like when my father refers to women as "little ladies", and a host of out-dated values? Our culture here is wildly liberal sexually compared to that of our parents. I've known couples here who have open marriages, but it's not some absurd thing like "So who did you fuck today? Was it good for you? Oh yeah, he's so much better than you!". The essence is about how they view sex. Many people view sex as more an act of social entertainment. They don't "bond" with their various partners. They are bonded with their mates, and sex with their mates are on a different, more emotional level.

 

What I am assuming, if what I hear has merit, then a younger generation over there is much more liberal about sexuality and it doesn't carry the same level of emotional weight that it does for the more traditional culture. If it is true that this is one of those cultural things and people are not being victimized to the degree we assume, then even if we wouldn't do it, isn't being critical of that like my father called young women "little ladies"? If they are being victimized, then obviously based on my previous posts I have little tolerance for that. Again, I am not condoning anything here. I'm just saying that even in our culture, our views of sexuality are widely varying and have a gamut of meaning to people as varied as the shades of the rainbow. Sex may not be that big of a deal?

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Just to try to be understanding of what several others have indicated, is it possible that this is a part of the modern culture and the story of the mother-in-law would be very much reflective of an older generation, much like when my father refers to women as "little ladies", and a host of out-dated values? Our culture here is wildly liberal sexually compared to that of our parents. I've known couples here who have open marriages, but it's not some absurd thing like "So who did you fuck today? Was it good for you? Oh yeah, he's so much better than you!". The essence is about how they view sex. Many people view sex as more an act of social entertainment. They don't "bond" with their various partners. They are bonded with their mates, and sex with their mates are on a different, more emotional level.

 

What I am assuming, if what I hear has merit, then a younger generation over there is much more liberal about sexuality and it doesn't carry the same level of emotional weight that it does for the more traditional culture. If it is true that this is one of those cultural things and people are not being victimized to the degree we assume, then even if we wouldn't do it, isn't being critical of that like my father called young women "little ladies"? If they are being victimized, then obviously based on my previous posts I have little tolerance for that. Again, I am not condoning anything here. I'm just saying that even in our culture, our views of sexuality are widely varying and have a gamut of meaning to people as varied as the shades of the rainbow. Sex may not be that big of a deal?

 

It is possible, but that isn't the case. My mother-in-law still keeps in touch with family there on a regular basis, including neices and nephews around my, and Leaf's age. Now, it's entirely possible that they're stringing her a line of bull; however, Leaf himself has indicated how "Sinful" it is for these good Christian woman to be doing such things. She (my mother-in-law) assures me that Orthodox Christianity is still predominatorily ingrained in modern Ukrainian culture; this was verified when my sister-in-law paid them a visit a couple of years ago. Therefore, your assumptions are, by my findings, incorrect.

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Since Leaf isn't a native English speaker, he may not know that that's sarcasm.

 

I think he's American if I follow correctly.

 

Yeah about me I was a Army Reservest for 10 years went to college mave a major in history and minor in human relations. Since 2001 I have pretty much lived in the Ukraine..I did live 6 months in Sweden "which had to be the most boring place I ever lived in!" I love living in the former USSR and plan to get a perminent residence here.

 

I do believe he is from American culture so English is probably his native language. Who would know sarcasm better than a "playa"? ;)

 

I agree. I missed some of these details. However, his English sounds like that of a native speaker. I've read posts by people who found English very difficult. Leaf speaks/writes it like a native. I also think his written English is acceptable and far superior to what many people use on forums. I am unsure why people are making a fuss over his English except that there is a desire to find fault.

 

I do not fully understand this desire. Where I come from, it is absolutely wrong to have sex with anyone except with one's spouse. This means no sex outside of marriage and only with one person. If I apply this rule to what many people on here are saying, then this whole thread is slimy with loose living.

 

So much for culture-based values. I fail to understand the very strong reactions of so many people against Leaf's excapades. Might it be an indication of very many people feeling very insecure in their marriages???

 

Or possibly it is an instinctual revulsion for a person who falsely claims everyone lies and openly speaks about exploiting others for his own pleasure and on top of all these other offenses claims every single one of us lives exactly like he does. I confess this does not endear him to me.

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This is from Wikipedia on Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)

 

Diagnostic criteria

At least five of the following are necessary for a diagnosis (as with many DSM diagnoses, they must form a pervasive pattern; for example, a person who shows these criteria only in one or two relationships or situations would not properly be diagnosed with NPD):

 

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people

4. requires excessive admiration

5. strong sense of entitlement

6. takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7. lacks empathy

8. is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her

9. arrogant affect.

 

Now look back over some of the things that Leaf has said and done here. Does he fit the profile?

 

If you had a daughter would you want her to get mixed up with this guy?

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If you had a daughter would you want her to get mixed up with this guy?

 

Yeah, I don't like him. But he'll probably say that's because I look like Danny DeVito (I am ugly mind you, but not quite that ugly). He just seems a bit conceited to me, like he thinks he's gawd's gift to women or somesuch.

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Going to go have affairs? Whatever. Going to brag about it? *Yawn* Whatever. Going to insult the people you've slept with for cheating when you are the one they are cheating with? Uhm.....that is what makes someone a rude low-life.

 

That makes this thread about as "spicy" as uncooked tofu. IMO.

 

Nice summary :HaHa:

 

BTW, I've never heard an American use the phrase "wuss bag" :scratch:

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Hey look the Leaf thread is now up to 11 pages, over 200 posts and 2,700+ views! So I gather the treatment for NPD to shower the patient with attention? Must be!

 

Can someone from the ex-Christian.net Outpatient NPD Team ™ confirm this? :Wendywhatever:

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Hey look the Leaf thread is now up to 11 pages, over 200 posts and 2,700+ views! So I gather the treatment for NPD to shower the patient with attention? Must be!

 

Can someone from the ex-Christian.net Outpatient NPD Team confirm this? :Wendywhatever:

:Doh::lmao::shrug:

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Only two choices? What about © or do you stay in your marriage and forget about everything because your family is the most important thing to you and there is no way that you would jeapordize that.

You would seriously reject the chance to spice up your otherwise very boring marriage? And by the way, I did say that if you were caught your husband would try to cover it up in order to protect his standing in the community.

Knowing myself as I do, I would more than likely choose c). HOWEVER...I cannot to truly *know* the answer because I've never been in anything close to that kind of situation. Perhaps it'd be best to hear from someone who has been.
Right. Never judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
Some marriages are like that, figuratively. Someone gets married at a young age to someone their parents expect them to marry and they don't figure out they weren't in love until many years and children later.
True but I think that for most of us, that isn't true. I didn't marry until I was 21 years old and it wasn't because it was expected, same with my dh.

Not everyone can be as fortunate as us, though. Some people make stupid mistakes early in life and don't know how to or can't get out of them.

Of course...looking out for numero uno, right? :HaHa:

Of course. That's what most people do. :)

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Look fellows I'm a REAL GUY, and if you could see my lifestyle, your jaw would drop...

I am a legend. I've dated stunning women all over the world. Women you would slap your mama just to talk to. Beautiful, unattainable women that ignore average chumps. And if you hadn't already noticed, there are women like this everywhere. I've dated countless women I've initially met in everyday places like bars, clubs, coffee shops, restaurants, malls, beaches, airports, grocery stores, out door markets, insurance campanies... even in elevators.

That's why my motto is 'Any Woman, Anytime, Anywhere' ... I live an incredible lifestyle that most men dream about, but most men will never have, due to their stupidity. But hey, right now, life is good. In fact, it's great.

I've read all the post here..the pro's the con's and the in between. of corse one can build a aurgument on just about anything..But anyway..The fact remains.Christian women love to get just as naked...They are human just like Charles Darwin was.

In my Senior year at a Christian college, I was the guy that was having sex with the girl you men were secretly in love with. These days, I'm the guy that takes home the gorgeous woman you and your desperate buddies have been staring at the whole night and buying drinks for. Hey, if I were you I'd hate me too. But both you fellows and I know that deep down, you'd LOVE to be me. You'd love to have my style. Because the difference between you and me fellows is obvious... tonight I'll have a soft, naked woman here, and you'll be at home hugging your pillow and jerking yourself to sleep.

Women virtually are ADDICTED to me. And you know what? I'm not rich, Brad Pitt "maybe close" just really a normal guy... . But women can't get enough of me. My techniques require me to lean back, have a LOT of fun and let the women chase me, not the other way round. And they love it.

Guys, The whole way we as men have been programmed to treat women from birth has been flawed. We've been raised by our "Christian" mothers and the media (movies, books, television) and stupidly been told that we should chase women and try to get their approval. We should buy them dinner and gifts and give them lots of compliments. We should be 'nice, sweet and caring' and in turn, women will be attracted to us.

Bottom line... the West is a nation of W.U.S.S.I.E.S.

Let me tell you, as a guy who has dated some pretty unbelievable women in his life, this is not the way that attraction works. It amazes me that so many millions of men are wasting both time and money doing things that actually repel women. Women don't care about this stuff. They want a man who knows how to spark that gut-level, uncontrollable ATTRACTION in them...

I'm not a jerk or a badboy. I'm not a 'nice guy' either. I'm the guy that 'gets' it. I'm being dead serious here.

Once you know what you're doing, it's as easy as hell, and you just do the same things over and over again Women you want will become attracted to you in a very short time, and require hardly any extra effort on your part.

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I never once signed a contract that stated I will not speed while driving.

 

You're a smart guy. You know as well as I do the day you got your driver's lisence was the day you agreed to abide by the rules of the road.

 

My point with speeding was to counter your point that we abide by contracts. Marriage is of course much more complex.

 

 

From what I've seen on this thread it makes more sense to me the uproar raised by the Clinton/Lewinski scandal. I still don't understand it, but I can see that the issue runs at a deep emotional level for others. During that scandal I was living in Italy, so I got the Italian perspective. The Italians were laughing at the Americans and couldn't understand what the problem was. The most common comment I heard was "If our PM was getting something on the side, we would be happy for him. Now that his penis is satisfied, he can get down to the people's business." For them, the idea that others could look at what goes on behind the closed doors of others and judge them was completely incomprehensible. That's my attitude as well.

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I would contend that ANY HARM to an unwilling, uninformed party makes the act objectionable and therefore wrong.

 

Human relationships are a complicated thing. When I was young I fell in love with a girl and she told me she loved me. We promised that our love would last forever. She subsequently broke my heart; as badly as any heart can be broken in any given scenario you guys here are imagining when considering cheating spouses. By your logic the girl that broke my heart should be judged as immoral. Again, love is complicated and not so cut and dry. You can't just apply Kant to love contracts (hey, I made a pun :HaHa: ).

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Let me tell you some about Ukraine and the orthodox church here. Most in Eastern UA are Russian Orthodox...That means 96% or so go to church about 2 times a year and light a candle...Thats all...2% are the ones who go daily , wear the head scarf and prey to mary etc, the other 2% are into cults like Mormons and Protestanism. Most people really dont take religion serious here as compair to the Judeo fatanic nutcase Christians that live in the States.

Digital, You make a point from your mother in law who lived in the USSR time.Yes I know women were a bit more reserved then...but even at that they slept around. I'm also not here streiotyping all Ukraian women...Some of corse are faithful and commited...But Ukraine is a big place with over 47 million people.

Ive learned long ago that most people have about 10 people they know well and about 30 more they are aquantences with..In total most peoples world consist of about 40 people on a year in year out base. Thus their world view tend to be like that of those around them.

Legion, Please spare me the Phycological BS gets :Old: fast!

I am a traditional man..And I love women! That also includes Christian women, Mormon women, JW's women, heck who am I tring to kid I'd even sleep with a Amish women if she looked good enough..Ohh this reminds me of a Menonite women I slept with..She was single 19..Came from a home of real strict parents..She had to wear a Mother Hubert type dress, hair back with a white cap..I was 25 "Still in religion at this time" meet her at a K-Mart store she was clerk there...Anyway now I know why Mennonites got their names from..The like Men At Night ;)

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My, my, my this thread has taken some turns. I'm going to jump right in to the fray and say, it's not my responsibility nor my right to judge either Leaf or his conquests. What they do, with whom they do it or why they do it is not my concern. It should be between him, his wife and family, his partner and her spouse and family, not me.

 

Honestly when Leaf first posted I thought his point to the post was to say that Christians weren't the goody, goody folks they pretended to be. He gave examples from his life as a basis to prove it.

 

I totally missed the point of the post because since then there have been 11 pages of psycho analysis, name calling and what not. The only thing missing so far is the prayer request for his soul and the request for him to repent and seek forgiveness.

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