Five Questions That Christians Can't Answer

[Japedo]

And let me school you on somethingl, God can most definitely be brutal. Take a look at nature. Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart? Well, God made them that way. And why did he do that? God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

 

Thanks for the education on the evils of your Gawd.

 

I'm much more humane, much more fair and much more justice orientated then the evil creep you call God. I'd never follow any god that wasn't at bare minimum as fair or as justice orientated as myself. I see you don't hold the standard of justice so high for yourself, that's fine at least I know what kind of evil minded person I'm typing to.

 

I suppose by your way of thinking leaders who commit egregious crimes such as genocide for fill in the blank reason can do it in the name of gawd and it's justified. Any innocent person who gets killed... you have the Oh well mindset, they must have deserved it... I think your mindset trumps any Sin. If you have such a shitty view for your life, I'm sorry for you... I'm also sorry you lack compassion for victims of suicide bombers, war, and other means of death and destruction, and justify their deaths as some sort of warped reason from your evil creep you call gawd. I'm horrified at the fact that you would stand here and freely admit that your god is not only a cold blooded murderer but you follow him.

 

[Jun]

And let me school you on somethingl, God can most definitely be brutal. Take a look at nature. Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart? Well, God made them that way. And why did he do that? God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

 

Here's another thing, just because God allows something, doesn't mean that it is the best that God intended for us. The Israelites wanted a king, and God said no. They begged God, and finally God said, ok, since you keep asking me for a thing that I've told you is not my will for you, I will give it too you. The Israelites definitely got burned in that deal. I could go into detail about the thinks the kings of Israel did to them, but that is beyond the scope of this writing.

 

God clearly doesn't want people to be slaves. Any time God allowed the Israelites to take slaves was as a punishment for those people. It does not mean that God condones slavery. This goes back to the commandment to not kill. This does not mean that God or the government can't tell you to kill someone. It simply means that you can not take it upon yourself to kill someone.

 

It amazes me no end how there are people living in this day and age who still believe that the writings of an ancient and ignorant people can be believed as if it were true. "Oh, well if people kill one another it's because "God" made it that way." I see, so he's a blood "God."

 

Altogether now -

Blood for the blood "God."

Blood for the blood "God."

Blood for the blood "God."

 

Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart?

 

Yes, that is called survival. Animals do not rip each other apart because of ideas, or beliefs, or any of the other myrid selfish reasons that humans do.

 

Well, God made them that way.

 

How do you know Allah didn't make them that way? Or perhaps Zeus, or Amaterasu, or Baiame? I'll let you in on a little secret. Animals are animals just as humans are humans, plants are plants, insects are insects. Who made them? The question isn't who, but what. It's called nature.

God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

 

Rriiiiggghhhhtttttttt. Sin is a delusion as is God and all the teachings of the bible.

 

Let's have a look at your "God." -

 

Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9 I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.So because your "God" is jealous, the sons and their sons will pay for the iniquity of their great great grandfather.

 

Sounds like "God" has some issues with forgiveness.

 

And "God" doesn't like people to wear clothing that he doesn't approve of. -

 

Zephaniah 1:8 I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

 

Careful, are you wearing the clothes that are approved by "God?" You'd better check the tag.

 

It does not mean that God condones slavery.

 

Exodus 21:2-6 If thou buy a Hebrew servant....

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man smite his servant or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished; notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.

Exodus 21:26-27 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.

Exodus 21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver.

Exodus 22:2-3 If a thief ... have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

Leviticus 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

Leviticus 22:11 If the priest buy any soul with his money....

Leviticus 25:39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee....

Leviticus 25:44-46 Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever.

Deuteronomy 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Deuteronomy 15:12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman be sold unto thee....

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

Deuteronomy 20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself.

Joshua 9:23 Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God.

Luke 12:46-47 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Luke 17:7-9 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.

1 Corinthians 7:21-22 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.

Colossians 3:22 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.

Colossians 4:1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

1 Timothy 6:1-5 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise ... he is proud, knowing nothing.... From such withdraw thyself.

Titus 2:9-10 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.

1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

 

I'd say it sounds pretty much like he did.

 

Since you've jumped in here, care to answer the questions put forth above for Matthew? He wasn't able to - are you?

[Ouroboros]

And let me school you on somethingl, God can most definitely be brutal. Take a look at nature. Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart? Well, God made them that way. And why did he do that? God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

So the evil and brutallity of the world witness about God's love? How can nature be a proof of God's existence, according to the Bible, if it is a proof that God is evil?

 

Here's another thing, just because God allows something, doesn't mean that it is the best that God intended for us. The Israelites wanted a king, and God said no. They begged God, and finally God said, ok, since you keep asking me for a thing that I've told you is not my will for you, I will give it too you. The Israelites definitely got burned in that deal. I could go into detail about the thinks the kings of Israel did to them, but that is beyond the scope of this writing.

The idea that God allows or not allow something is exactly equal to roll a die, or asking a 8 ball. That God answer or not answer is just as random as a non-God would be. And from random events you just put a label on it that God either did something good for you (or someone else), or he didn't do something (or did something evil) only because he had a greater plan. That doesn't prove God, it only proves random events.

 

God clearly doesn't want people to be slaves. Any time God allowed the Israelites to take slaves was as a punishment for those people. God uses the evils of humanity as punishment. It does not mean that God condones slavery. This goes back to the commandment to not kill. This does not mean that God or the government can't tell you to kill someone. It simply means that you can not take it upon yourself to kill someone.

What? God didn't want anyone to be slaves, so he punished some people by making them slaves? What kind of fucking monster God do you believe in? I have to ask, are you one of those freak people that put your child in a cage for three days wihtout food and water or access to a bathroom only because they took a cookie?

 

In the Bible Satan killed a handful of people, Job's family to be more exact, but someone summed up how many were killed by God's command and it was over millions. So who is the blood thirsty deity in you fantasy book?

 

Wishful, you believe in an evil God. Your God is worse than Hitler, and you praise him and protect him. You do that, because of something called the Battered Wife Syndrome. You are protecting the abuser. The only salvation you can have is to leave that abusive relationship. Put your foot down, and say "No! Not anymore!", and leave your fantasy.

[Jun]

In the Bible Satan killed a handful of people, Job's family to be more exact, but someone summed up how many were killed by God's command and it was over millions. So who is the blood thirsty deity in you fantasy book?

 

In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. It's all in the bible check it out for yourself.

 

That doesn't include killing all living things during the supposed great flood, when "God" had no more control over his wayward humans so he decided to drown them all and start again!

[Ouroboros]

Thanks Jun,

 

And when it comes to both the flood and the people that were ravaged and turned to slaves, what kind of evil had the babies done to deserve a life as slaves or be killed before they had a chance of a life? Wishful is only wishful that God exists and is better than what his book says. If God really did exist, and he did all those things, our world would be destroyed completely by now, and since it isn't, to me it's a proof that Bible God doesn't exist.

[Japedo]

In the Bible Satan killed a handful of people, Job's family to be more exact, but someone summed up how many were killed by God's command and it was over millions. So who is the blood thirsty deity in you fantasy book?

 

In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. It's all in the bible check it out for yourself.

 

That doesn't include killing all living things during the supposed great flood, when "God" had no more control over his wayward humans so he decided to drown them all and start again!

 

 

 

Thanks for the numbers Jun,(and Hans) they are staggering. I wonder why people allow a god to hold them (sinners) to a higher standard then he holds himself.

[Ouroboros]

Thanks for the numbers Jun,(and Hans) they are staggering. I wonder why people allow a god to hold them (sinners) to a higher standard then he holds himself.

And why are they protecting him? Why are they working so hard to whitewash the evil acts of the OT God? From what I understand the stories in there is to show that God is not a perfect or all loving God. There's a discrepancy between the OT God and the Jesus' NT God. They're not the same, but the Christian is forced to try to put this square God into a round hole, and they're trying so hard and can't realize how stupid it looks from the outside. (And the more I see of these things, the harder it is to me to understand that I used to do this too!)

[Jun]

Thanks Jun,

 

And when it comes to both the flood and the people that were ravaged and turned to slaves, what kind of evil had the babies done to deserve a life as slaves or be killed before they had a chance of a life? Wishful is only wishful that God exists and is better than what his book says. If God really did exist, and he did all those things, our world would be destroyed completely by now, and since it isn't, to me it's a proof that Bible God doesn't exist.

 

What I don't get is what the animals on the ark ate? How did Noah feed the carnivores? Lions alone consume seven kilos of meat four times a week. That's 28 kilos a week @ 40 days and nigths = 1,120 kilos! And that's just the lions and there were supposed to be two of them!

 

And what did all the animals eat after the flood subsided? Everything had been under water for 40 days and nights (to the height of the highest peaks). So there would have been no other animals for the carnivores to eat and no plantation for the herbivores. One more thing, where did all the water go?

[Ouroboros]

Ah, Jun, you're so ignorant. Didn't you know that they used shrink ray to make the animals fit on the ark, and a replicator from Star Trek to make the food. A the water froze super quick and started the ice age. ... *sigh* What do they teach in Sunday school nowadays?...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jun]

Ah, Jun, you're so ignorant. Didn't you know that they used shrink ray to make the animals fit on the ark, and a replicator from Star Trek to make the food. A the water froze super quick and started the ice age. ... *sigh* What do they teach in Sunday school nowadays?...

 

 

I must've been sick that day! Or it must've been the day I was behind the shed with Betty .........................oh, never mind.

[Grandpa Harley]

I think that handed Wishful hir arse... Well done chaps, you don't need me for this...

[Vigile]

And let me school you on somethingl, God can most definitely be brutal. Take a look at nature. Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart? Well, God made them that way. And why did he do that? God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

 

 

What a fucking dumbshit you are. I've found that we all create the god that best represents our own outlook. Some create a god that is ultra loving and ultra tolerant. You are correct about nature, but to look at nature and to then create the god of your own outlook based on the depravity that exists in nature simply betrays the hateful intolerance that is you. You must be a real pleasant individual to sit down and share a beer with.

[Grandpa Harley]

Imagine living in his head... There is a hell, and he dwells there...

[Antlerman]

And let me school you on somethingl, God can most definitely be brutal.

Absolutely, the god you worship is a brutal god whose vengeful nature can only be appeased with bloodshed. With this there is no argument. He is spiteful, jealous, hateful, and vengeful, and demands everyone to bow before him and worship him and openly declares he has plans to torture trillions of human beings for choosing to live their lives as their own. He intends to destroy his own creation because it didn’t turn out as he intended. I agree with you, this perfectly describes the god of the Bible.

 

How does it feel to worship this dressed-up old volcano deity YHWH who was at one time only one of many gods and later transformed by priests in the supreme God? Does it make you happy to worship that idea of ancient tribal priests?

 

Take a look at nature. Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart? Well, God made them that way. And why did he do that? God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

Life requires energy to survive. Animals eat plants and other animals to preserve life, not destroy it. Life survives this way. It’s part of the cycle of life and that itself is a good thing. Plants are life too, you know? Who says this is evil? Death is part of Life. Why do you hate it so much? Aren’t you being a little selfish in the larger scope of things?

 

As far as your explanations of “why” these things exist and why god did it thusly, do you have any evidence to back up that explanation, or is this just pure speculation to support your wanting to try to make your religious belief explainable in the face of reality?

 

Here's another thing, just because God allows something, doesn't mean that it is the best that God intended for us.

Here’s a thought for you. You say God “allows” something. Isn’t this a contradiction if he “gave” us freewill? How can you give something like freedom to someone, and then put conditions on it? I guess if God “allows” us to do something against his will, then we don’t really have will, do we?

 

God clearly doesn't want people to be slaves.

Really? He wants people to be slaves to him. Remember, he will punish us for exercising “freewill”. We are not to really be free. We are to be his slaves “willingly” or he will hunt us down and burn us on crosses in the field to declare his sovereignty over the lives of men. You can call this freedom if you want. I don't.

 

Any time God allowed the Israelites to take slaves was as a punishment for those people.

Really? Chapter and versus to support your explanation please? God ordered everyone to be killed as a punishment for not being his chosen ones. It’s the Israelites that wanted to rape the young girls that YHWH by virtue of his priests, once again, “allowed”. Study your Bible.

 

God uses the evils of humanity as punishment.

Punishment for what? Exercising our freewill?

 

So do you believe the 6,000,000 million Jews gassed to death in Germany was orchestrated by the ancient volcano god YHWH to punish his chosen ones for disobeying his demands on them, namely to turn their freewills over to him, or else?

 

It does not mean that God condones slavery. This goes back to the commandment to not kill.

The commandment to not kill was not about people outside Israel. People outside the Tribe, were considered non-humans. This is why it is not a violation of the tribal commandments (a.k.a., ‘the Ten Commandments’) when Joshua under orders from the god YHWH order genocide of the Canaanites. Killing non-humans is not murder.

 

Nice god you worship there.

 

This does not mean that God or the government can't tell you to kill someone. It simply means that you can not take it upon yourself to kill someone.

Yes, God tells people all the time to kill other people. How many mothers have drowned their babies because God told them to? How about clinic bombers? God told them to murder in his name too. Of course back to the old Tribal Law (10 Commandments), it’s not really murder if you’re killing non-humans, which are defined in modern terms as: UNBELIEVERS!

 

Praise God! Humans have an excuse to be evil.

 

That’s what your god is: an excuse for a sick mind and heart. And you want us to condone this by bowing down with you? Fuck that!

[Grandpa Harley]

The OT problem wouldn't have happened if Marcion had won... He tohught the God of the Jews was a Demon.

[Ouroboros]

What a fucking dumbshit you are. I've found that we all create the god that best represents our own outlook. Some create a god that is ultra loving and ultra tolerant. You are correct about nature, but to look at nature and to then create the god of your own outlook based on the depravity that exists in nature simply betrays the hateful intolerance that is you. You must be a real pleasant individual to sit down and share a beer with.

Wishful would take your beer, drink it, and when you ask why he did it, he will tell you he did it for your own good and to prove how much he cared for you.

[Ouroboros]

Imagine living in his head... There is a hell, and he dwells there...

You're saying he has a black hole in his head? (Just connecting with another topic last week, if you remember)

[Kuroikaze]

And let me school you on somethingl, God can most definitely be brutal. Take a look at nature. Have you ever seen a video of some animal ripping another animal apart? Well, God made them that way. And why did he do that? God did that to demonstrate to us the the evil and brutality of sin and that we bring these things on ourselves. We live in a fallen world.

 

So is it God doing this to us or are we doing it to ourselves? I'm confused

 

 

Here's another thing, just because God allows something, doesn't mean that it is the best that God intended for us. The Israelites wanted a king, and God said no. They begged God, and finally God said, ok, since you keep asking me for a thing that I've told you is not my will for you, I will give it too you. The Israelites definitely got burned in that deal. I could go into detail about the thinks the kings of Israel did to them, but that is beyond the scope of this writing.

 

I've studied the OT quite closely, you mention the kings which is interesting...David was said to be a man after God's own heart, but he had a man killed to avoid admitting he slept with the man's wife. He also owned many slaves and concubines. again...what you say seem to contradict reality. Furthermore, what the hell does it mean for an all powerful being to "allow" something...just because you can string some words together doesn't mean they actually SAY something useful.

 

God clearly doesn't want people to be slaves. Any time God allowed the Israelites to take slaves was as a punishment for those people. God uses the evils of humanity as punishment. It does not mean that God condones slavery. This goes back to the commandment to not kill. This does not mean that God or the government can't tell you to kill someone. It simply means that you can not take it upon yourself to kill someone.

 

Clearly huh? So clear that until maybe 2 or 3 hundred years ago almost everyone believed that God approved of owning slaves....it is apparently not as clear as you seem to think it is. The idea that slavery is wrong is a very new cultural development...one that many cultures still today do not accept.

 

the way you put it you almost seem to put the government on the same level with god (one of the signs of a theocratic mindset) The government can be wrong, just because they tell you to kill someone doesn't make it right automatically.

 

Part of the problem here is that you assume that all those people the Israelites enslaved were guilty of some evil, presumably just because the bible says so. What exactly were these people being punished for?

[Grandpa Harley]

Imagine living in his head... There is a hell, and he dwells there...

You're saying he has a black hole in his head? (Just connecting with another topic last week, if you remember)

 

http://www.thinktechnologies.com/portfolio.../Blackhole.html

[Ouroboros]

http://www.thinktechnologies.com/portfolio.../Blackhole.html

Very nice animation, but unfortunately it wasn't the discussion I referred to.

 

There was a topic last week, with a link to this Christian that claimed that Hell is a black hole. So if Hell is in Wishfuls head, then he has a black hole in there. (Which doesn't surprise me one bit, I would have guessed he got vacuum in there, but a black hole will do too.)

[Grandpa Harley]

I know.

 

I was saying that was inside his head... a singularity.....

[Ouroboros]

I was saying that was inside his head... a singularity.....

That is very true. Basically fundamentalistic religion is black hole of belief. It collapses into a singularity and a black-and-white thinking and their explanations make just as much sense as the uncertainty principle. Only when you probe their belief you will know if the cat is dead or not, and it seems like the cat is dead everytime, at least when it comes to fundamentalism.

[Grandpa Harley]

and pretty maggoty

[Ouroboros]

Which reminds me. When Jesus (supposedly) died, there would be some maggot infestation present (after 8-20 hours?). Did those maggots get transfigured to and went with him to Heaven to sit on God's right side? And talking about infestation, the human body consists to a large extent of foreign bacteria, parasites etc (I don't know the number), but I think it's quite a bit. Did all that stuff go with him in the sky too? Maybe he introduced the cholera, pest and smallpox, so the whole armada of angels and "witnesses" are now dead-dead (off to the next Heaven) and the Christian's will only find a desolate ghost Heaven when they get there... oh, that's right, they are the ghosts... forgot.

[Grandpa Harley]

I remember, one slightly drunken night, my self and a priest I went to Uni with mused about whether Jesus had fleas or if he periodically deloused using the power of god...