Vigile Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Well, there's another problem too. We are comparing an all knowing fair and just God to a corrupt judicial system where we feel we cannot trust one person to make a fair decision. But in the end my answer to question number two better explains because it's not even really a matter of being fair or just... but a matter of who we choose to serve. Oh there you go, pull the old he's so much further removed from our understanding and we are just too stupid to understand card. If the system is so corrupt, then why use it as a metaphor? Bet you can't answer that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Are you a KJV 1611 only Christian, or do you use others? Young's Literal? The Jerusalem Bible? No. I do use it primarily. But I also use a program called QuickVerse that allows me to hi-lite any given word in the KJV, NIV, NKJV, Greek, Hebrew and when I hi-lite that it gives the translation for the Greek or Hebrew. I have found the KJV to be the closest to the Greek and Hebrew translations that I have found, but I never rule out other translations, and that's certainly not to say that I have reviewed them all, because I have not. Nor do I rule out any specific "denomination". I live by the sort of mentality that if there is any fruit to be picked then I pick it. In other words, even a non-believer can tell truths, and to me truth is the "fruit" I'm referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Well, there's another problem too. We are comparing an all knowing fair and just God to a corrupt judicial system where we feel we cannot trust one person to make a fair decision. But in the end my answer to question number two better explains because it's not even really a matter of being fair or just... but a matter of who we choose to serve. Oh there you go, pull the old he's so much further removed from our understanding and we are just too stupid to understand card. If the system is so corrupt, then why use it as a metaphor? Bet you can't answer that one. Never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. K thanks bai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Not at all. To be Christian is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. To know Him. That being said, you either knew Christ and have since turned your back on Him, or you never knew Him in the first place. I'll take door number three Bob, I was convinced I knew him, but then I found out he didn't exist and that I was deluded. I've since sought and received treamtment for my disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Follier Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 While you're on, Matthew, would you be able to field three Biblical contradictions from the KJV's account of Christ's birth, death and resurrection? I assume that the Bible's inerrancy will readily present itself when you are presented with the three examples, right? I have yet to have a Christian answer these. Will you take up the challenge? If you're hesitant, please refer to I Peter 3:15 to let God bolster your faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 If we are not with Him we are against Him Are you sure your name is not Mathew W. Burke? So that's where God got that line! Makes sense. My name might be Matthew W. Burke. Or maybe I'm not real. Maybe I'm a computer program. Or perhaps a figment of your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. K thanks bai So you're gone again. And I don't see your explanation to the contradiction I mentioned earlier... was it too hard? And again, the George Washington vs Jesus and personal relationship... a personal relationship with Jesus is exactly the same as a personal relationship with George Washington. And since GW is unresponsive because he's dead, then Jesus is in my opinion just as dead since he's just as unresponsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 While you're on, Matthew, would you be able to field three Biblical contradictions from the KJV's account of Christ's birth, death and resurrection? I assume that the Bible's inerrancy will readily present itself when you are presented with the three examples, right? I have yet to have a Christian answer these. Will you take up the challenge? If you're hesitant, please refer to I Peter 3:15 to let God bolster your faith. I have seen no contradictions to date, so you will have to point out what you believe to be one. Then I will be glad to correct your mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 My name might be Matthew W. Burke. Or maybe I'm not real. Maybe I'm a computer program. Or perhaps a figment of your imagination. Cool, you're back. So you're saying that a personal relationship is possible with a computer program and/or a figment of my imagination? That sounds like your religion to me. :shrugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Follier Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 If we are not with Him we are against Him Are you sure your name is not Mathew W. Burke? So that's where God got that line! Makes sense. My name might be Matthew W. Burke. Or maybe I'm not real. Maybe I'm a computer program. Or perhaps a figment of your imagination. Or (get this) maybe you can't give a straight answer to a question. You came in here making some pretty big claims but have yet to deliver. Please respond to my challenge on the NT-KJV contradictions. EDIT: Your reply further up the thread was not present when I made this reply. See below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Follier Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Don't go anywhere... it is forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Well, there's another problem too. We are comparing an all knowing fair and just God to a corrupt judicial system where we feel we cannot trust one person to make a fair decision. But in the end my answer to question number two better explains because it's not even really a matter of being fair or just... but a matter of who we choose to serve. Oh there you go, pull the old he's so much further removed from our understanding and we are just too stupid to understand card. If the system is so corrupt, then why use it as a metaphor? Bet you can't answer that one. The Mystery Card is a good one too... a Calvinsit I know posted on his blog he uses that argument when presented with a comment he can't answer... is one his happy little STFU phrases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. K thanks bai So you're gone again. And I don't see your explanation to the contradiction I mentioned earlier... was it too hard? And again, the George Washington vs Jesus and personal relationship... a personal relationship with Jesus is exactly the same as a personal relationship with George Washington. And since GW is unresponsive because he's dead, then Jesus is in my opinion just as dead since he's just as unresponsive. No it's not. I have never communicated with George Washington. If you think I believe that George Washington is not real you're an idiot. I was making a point that for anyone to believe that George Washington is or was not real is just a retarded as someone that doesn't believe that Jesus was, at a minimum, a real person that walked on this earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Show me. She doesn't need to. It's circular reasoning. If she is a fool according to the bible, you must then reason that the bible is correct and that she's a fool because the bible said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 While you're on, Matthew, would you be able to field three Biblical contradictions from the KJV's account of Christ's birth, death and resurrection? I assume that the Bible's inerrancy will readily present itself when you are presented with the three examples, right? I have yet to have a Christian answer these. Will you take up the challenge? If you're hesitant, please refer to I Peter 3:15 to let God bolster your faith. I have seen no contradictions to date, so you will have to point out what you believe to be one. Then I will be glad to correct your mistake. Come now... you've not addressed anything I noted... how is Paul's revelation not in contradition of itself? Or Joseph's genealogy... seems to me you're cherry picking the questions you answer.... Seems to me we've met before... the Eliza references, you see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I have seen no contradictions to date, so you will have to point out what you believe to be one. Then I will be glad to correct your mistake. I gave you one. Moses, burning bush, Jahweh ... Jahweh say's "No one has known me by my name, Jahweh, not even Abraham knew my name." Abraham (earlier in the same book), praying, sacrifice, etc, etc... Abraham prays "Jahweh you are such a bad ass, and you're sometimes kind but I really do love your shoes!" Now, look into the scripture and you'll see that I'm right (well, almost, since I'm kind of ad libbing it a bit, with the shoes and stuff). This is a contradiction, so how do you solve it? My solution is either: 1) God is a liar 2) God is confused 3) God is forgetful 4) The author is a liar 5) The author is confused or 6) The author is forgetful Either or, I haven't heard anyone give me any reasonable 7th option yet. Can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 No it's not. I have never communicated with George Washington. If you think I believe that George Washington is not real you're an idiot. I was making a point that for anyone to believe that George Washington is or was not real is just a retarded as someone that doesn't believe that Jesus was, at a minimum, a real person that walked on this earth. Zooooooom, and the point went passed your head again, and you completely missed it. I fucking DID NOT say that George Washington DID NOT exist. Where the fucking hell did you get that from? Explain please? Second, you admit that you don't have a personal relationship with GW, and yet you claim to have a personal relationship with a DEAD GUY! So you are having a personal relationship with a person just as dead and non-responsive as GW. GW existed... yes. Jesus existed... maybe GW dead... yes Jesus dead... if he existed, yes he's dead now Personal relationship with Jesus = Personal relationship with a dead guy, or a figment of your imagination Personal relationship with GW = Personal relationship with a dead guy, or you're delusional. So I say, you have the same relationship with Jesus as you would have with GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 As far as the snide remarks, feel free to post them but I will not respond and they will be in vein. So now good logic has rules of protocol. Well I never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 While you're on, Matthew, would you be able to field three Biblical contradictions from the KJV's account of Christ's birth, death and resurrection? I assume that the Bible's inerrancy will readily present itself when you are presented with the three examples, right? I have yet to have a Christian answer these. Will you take up the challenge? If you're hesitant, please refer to I Peter 3:15 to let God bolster your faith. I have seen no contradictions to date, so you will have to point out what you believe to be one. Then I will be glad to correct your mistake. Come now... you've not addressed anything I noted... how is Paul's revelation not in contradition of itself? Or Joseph's genealogy... seems to me you're cherry picking the questions you answer.... Seems to me we've met before... the Eliza references, you see... Where are the contradictions. I said in an earlier post I consider myself to be a "Babe in Christ". I've never been to a Bible College nor do I ever plan on attending one. All I know for certain is that in my journey through the Bible I have never come across any contradictions. I assume that you're talking about different passages referring to Paul's revelation contradicting each other. But where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Follier Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 MATTHEW DUBYA BURKE: This is the way it will work: I will pose three questions about the birth, crucifixion and resurrection of Christ with several KJV chapter and verse citations below it. I will post the citations to the yes/no question in a "pro-con-pro-con" fashion. Here we go... Was Joseph the father of Jesus? Acts 2:30, Matthew 1:18, Acts 13:23, Matthew 22:45, Romans 1:3, Mark 12:35-37 What did the sign over Jesus' head say? + THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS... Mt.27:37 + THE KING OF THE JEWS... Mk.15:26 + THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS... Lk.23:38 + JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS... Jn.19:19 When did Jesus ascend into heaven? + On the day of his resurrection... Luke 24:1-51 + At least eight days after his resurrection... John 20:26 + Many days after his resurrection... Acts 13:31 + Forty days after his resurrection... Acts 1:2-3, 9 We are all waiting with bated breath. EDIT: Ask for contradictions in the above post (#347) and you shall receive. how's that for prophetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewBurke Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 GW dead... yesJesus dead... if he existed, yes he's dead now Personal relationship with Jesus = Personal relationship with a dead guy, or a figment of your imagination Personal relationship with GW = Personal relationship with a dead guy, or you're delusional. So I say, you have the same relationship with Jesus as you would have with GW. The tomb is empty. And I never said that you believe GW is not real. You basically just said the same thing I did. People keep referring to this because I said something along the lines of "George Washington is not real. Have you ever shook his hand?". And I was saying that anyone that believes that is what I truly believe is retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. K thanks bai So you're gone again. And I don't see your explanation to the contradiction I mentioned earlier... was it too hard? And again, the George Washington vs Jesus and personal relationship... a personal relationship with Jesus is exactly the same as a personal relationship with George Washington. And since GW is unresponsive because he's dead, then Jesus is in my opinion just as dead since he's just as unresponsive. No it's not. I have never communicated with George Washington. If you think I believe that George Washington is not real you're an idiot. I was making a point that for anyone to believe that George Washington is or was not real is just a retarded as someone that doesn't believe that Jesus was, at a minimum, a real person that walked on this earth. Where is the extra-biblical evidence for what is a pretty bald assertion? I say extra-Biblical since to cite the Bible is circular. There is minimal evidence of Jesus as an objective existence, certainly in terms of George Washington or Julius Caesar, where there are foreign documents contemporary to Washington's (and Julius') life... it's a bad analogy, since there is NOT the evidence, unless you care to show some (and spare us the "9 out of 10 cats prefer it" logic, since I've yet to find a scholar who will say anything definite about possibly mythic figures out side his area of expertise, and there is too much tenure at stake to take the word of Biblical Scholar on the putative existence of Jesus the man as anything other than a base hypothesis) to say that there is as much evidence for Jesus ever living as there is for Washington, or Caesar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 No. I do use it primarily. But I also use a program called QuickVerse that allows me to hi-lite any given word in the KJV, NIV, NKJV, Greek, Hebrew and when I hi-lite that it gives the translation for the Greek or Hebrew. I have found the KJV to be the closest to the Greek and Hebrew translations that I have found, but I never rule out other translations, and that's certainly not to say that I have reviewed them all, because I have not. Ok, all snide (even though quite logical) remarks aside, I have a personal question to ask. My father always told me that every time he reads the bible he gets something new from it. He has read the thing daily all the years I've known him, and I'm 40. But seriously, even with all my father's study, I'm sure I've read the bible more than him and damned if that book doesn't get more boring every time you pick it up. I'm a pretty astute guy who has the ability to draw on innuendo and grasp subtlety better than average. Truth be told though, the longer I read that book, and the harder I tried to be objective with it, the more I found that it was just empty and that my understanding of passages were merely formed by apologetics I had read or sermons I had been exposed to. It's just not that deep. Honestly, are you really getting a buzz when you read it after all these years (I'm assuming you've been at it for a while)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 While you're on, Matthew, would you be able to field three Biblical contradictions from the KJV's account of Christ's birth, death and resurrection? I assume that the Bible's inerrancy will readily present itself when you are presented with the three examples, right? I have yet to have a Christian answer these. Will you take up the challenge? If you're hesitant, please refer to I Peter 3:15 to let God bolster your faith. I have seen no contradictions to date, so you will have to point out what you believe to be one. Then I will be glad to correct your mistake. Come now... you've not addressed anything I noted... how is Paul's revelation not in contradition of itself? Or Joseph's genealogy... seems to me you're cherry picking the questions you answer.... Seems to me we've met before... the Eliza references, you see... Where are the contradictions. I said in an earlier post I consider myself to be a "Babe in Christ". I've never been to a Bible College nor do I ever plan on attending one. All I know for certain is that in my journey through the Bible I have never come across any contradictions. I assume that you're talking about different passages referring to Paul's revelation contradicting each other. But where? So your a believer who doesn't know the bible? Well, that's not my problem... if you're too fence post dumb to be able to remember stories and see them clash, or references, I'm not your teacher, mentor, spiritual guide, or friend... nor am I in the mood to carry you about you idle thing... Google is your friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. K thanks bai You didn't claim god's ways are higher than our ways? Oops, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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