Five Questions That Christians Can't Answer

[MatthewBurke]

BTW, since you brought up the whole “You were never a real Christian" thing we’re always oh so happy to hear yet one more time, I just posted this response in another thread today to someone who brought that topic up. I’ll share my own quote with you for your edification:

 

"Do you believe that John Calvin's interpretation of the Bible is on the same level of authority as God himself in your faith? Of course you don't. Then did you know that the teachings of Jacobus Arminius are agreed with by more Christians than those who accept John Calvin's teaching, and that Arminianism teaches the opposite, that in the Bible it shows quite clearly that a Christian can become an ex-Christian? So are you saying you are a Calvinist, rather than a Christian?

 

Are you saying that those who disagree with John Calvin are just plain wrong, and if so how is it that your studies have revealed something that a huge number of other Christians don't agree with? Have you been particularly favored by God to have knowledge so superior to others that you can sit in judgment over those who claim with good reason that they in fact were sincere, active, believing Christians at one point?

 

Isn't that a rather high and mighty presumption based on theological preferences to judge the sincerity of another human being, like me? I sincerely believed in Jesus like you do now. Perhaps you are just finding that the teachings of one particular theologian’s ideas are helping you to respond to the idea that someone like you could change their mind about something that seems so important to you at this time? Does my being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten you?”

 

Calvinism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_points_of_Calvinism

Arminianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism

Edification?

 

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

Does someone being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten me? Of course not, at least not in the sense that's being implied. But if you saw a person standing in front of a MAC Truck that was barreling down the road toward them, would you not be frightened for that person, knowing what was going to happen to them if they failed to get out of the way? Most people will say yes, Christian and non-Christian alike.

[Ouroboros]

If you're looking for a biological father, then no. Jesus was born of a virgin, but Joseph was the man that Jesus' peers would have thought to be His father.

Here's something I've been wondering for a time... what kind of Y-Chromosome does the Holy Spirit have? Is it some kind of supernatural Y-Chrom? And how can Jesus be son of David and Judah and so on, if the whole family tree is based on the male, i.e. only the Y-Chromosomes? Basically, Jesus could only have been a son of David and Judah etc, if he got the X-Chromosome from Mary, who got it from her father maybe, but then the bucket stops, because her father had to get it from his mother and not his father... so how does this geneology work when Jesus is supposed to be in direct line from Judah and David etc.

[MatthewBurke]

Kinda back to me not being a scholar again but I will start by saying that theres no reason not to believe the eye-whitenesses testimony from the Bible. You may call it circular but their track record for being historically and geographically accurate has to account for something. But I suppose I'll see what else I can find for you.

How do you know that these so called "eye-witnesses" existed and really saw they someone claim they saw? Why are the "eye-witness" accounts or stories not written as first person? They all say "peter did that, and they went here, and they did so, and he said this..." nothing of "And then I[/b] took the bottle and drank it all, and it felt fine. But Jesus told me that I should..." Can you explain how four different people, all tell their "eye-witness" stories, end up writing it as they were telling a fairy tale and not as real, living, material witnesses?

Yes...The hundreds of writers of the Old and New Testament all collaborated via email to put together this book. er...wait...

 

Either that or I suppose if I can evolve from a rock that came from nothing...I guess it's possible that their stories just happened to match up.

 

/sarcasm off

[MatthewBurke]

I'm sorry Hans but He's not dead. And the day will come when every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that many of you will truly come to know Him before that day.

[Jun]

"Spiritually Unplugged"

 

Ha haahhahahaha This is coming from a guy who thinks we have ghosts inside us that pop out when we die!

 

The "Ex-Christian" does not exist...

 

Are ALL Christians really that stupid? Have they had labotomies or something? See here - #14

 

.........that knew and still knows Christ but has turned their back on Him, which is also called rebellion.

 

Huh? It's a work of fiction! What you just said is the same as saying "I have turned my back on Gandalf the Grey." There you go, more rebellion.

 

The person that most commonly refers to themselves as a "Ex-Christian" is a person that was raised in a Christian home; or had peers that either were or at least called themselves Christians, and accepted it solely because it's how they were influenced and not because they knew Christ.

 

Actually, as with many here I was forcfully indoctrinated beyond my will as a child by parents who believed in this supernatural mumbo-jumbo. If you had been brought up in India we wouldn't be having this conversation as you'd be a Hindu. Or if you'd been brought up in Arabia, you'd be an Islamist. Children don't get to choose their religion or lack-thereof, it is generally forced upon them by their parents or society. But you wouldn't understand what I'm saying at all.

 

I would challenge anyone that truly knows what it means to do something with an open heart to ask Him to enter your life.

 

I challenge you to actually step back from your religion and open your eyes. Take a good hard look around you. Actually read about other faiths, cultures, religions and compare it to your faith in your fictional god. I know you can't because you've beeen brainwashed to believe without question.

 

....to those that have an open heart and are solely looking for truth......

 

You see that doesn't make any sense coming from a Christian. Christians are not allowed to search for truth. They are not allowed to question, or to doubt. They are not allowed to use the full faculties of the brain. They must robotically believe all that they are told is the truth, without question. The only truth a Christian knows is the false truth as presented to them by a 2,000 year old Jewish religion.

 

There's a number of ways to prove the existence of God, but revelation is the ultimate proof to any individual.

 

Just as there are a hundred ways to prove the existence of Shiva, Atlas, Mars, Horus, Mithra, Hercules, Allah, Amaterasu, Hachiman,.................

 

Tell me Matthew, do you believe in Allah? If not why not?

 

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

 

How do you "rebel" against a fictional character in a book? Can you rebel against Harry Potter?

 

I'm sorry Hans but He's not dead. And the day will come when every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that many of you will truly come to know Him before that day.

 

What's with all these Abrahamic cults and their bowing down to fictional rulers? It's always about how you will bow down to this god or that god.

[Ouroboros]

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

Does someone being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten me? Of course not, at least not in the sense that's being implied. But if you saw a person standing in front of a MAC Truck that was barreling down the road toward them, would you not be frightened for that person, knowing what was going to happen to them if they failed to get out of the way? Most people will say yes, Christian and non-Christian alike.

Okay. So where is the truck? Can you point to it? Do you see it? Are you taking any drugs for your hallucinations? Well maybe you should.

[Evolution_beyond]

I have a contradiction in the Bible. And it's one that really is pretty fatal to all those who want to take the whole Bible literally.

 

There are two creation accounts in the Bible. The first one says that God made the world in six days (resting on the seven) - it says that he made the sky and the sea and the land and that he made plants grow from the land. He then made all the animals. The finally, one the sixth day he made men and women.

 

The second creation account comes next. It says that the land was lifeless when Adam was formed out of the dust and no plants grew on the land at that time. It is only after Adam is formed from dust that God plants a garden for Adam to live in. Then when Adam needs a companion, it specifically says that God created all the animals as companions for Adam and that Adam named them. Then God formed Eve from Adam's rib.

 

So - did God create plants before he made man? Or did he create the first plants to make a garden for Adam to live in? Did God create the animals before he made man? Or did he create them afterwards to be companions for Adam?

 

Oh, and did God create men and women (plural)? Or did he just create one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve)?

[Ouroboros]

Yes...The hundreds of writers of the Old and New Testament all collaborated via email to put together this book. er...wait...

Eeh... hundreds of religious fanatics handpicked the books they wanted and modified them to fit together and threw away the ones that didn't fit. And that proves what? It only proves that people can make things look coherent, when they originally were not.

 

Either that or I suppose if I can evolve from a rock that came from nothing...I guess it's possible that their stories just happened to match up.

Well, according to the Bible you were made from dirt, so what's the difference?

 

 

I'm sorry Hans but He's not dead. And the day will come when every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that many of you will truly come to know Him before that day.

And still he is dead, and the tomb with Jesus ossuary confirms it... or? The tomb wasn't empty, the bones were found.

 

And you still haven't explained how God told Moses that Abraham didn't know God by the name of Jahweh, and yet the Bible say that Abraham did know God by that name. What is the answer?

[Evolution_beyond]

Even though I don't believe in any kind of God anymore, I do think that any being or force that is behind the creation of the entire Universe probably has more pressing concerns than whether people acknowledge his/her/its existence and whether they pray to him, ask forgiveness, go to church, do a few rituals and believe the words of some book written two thousand years ago.

 

Any entity that has to worry about stars, black holes, the whole myriad of different biological organisms on this and other planets, worldwide extinction events etc etc is hardly going to pay an awful lot of attention to what people happen to get up to in their private lives. Such an entity certainly wouldn't give a shit whether we acknowledge its existence at all.

 

Surely God is a lot bigger than your tiny little human attempt to understand him and quite capable of speaking up for himself.

[Japedo]

I'm sorry Hans but He's not dead. And the day will come when every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that many of you will truly come to know Him before that day.

 

[Antlerman]

BTW, since you brought up the whole “You were never a real Christian" thing we’re always oh so happy to hear yet one more time, I just posted this response in another thread today to someone who brought that topic up. I’ll share my own quote with you for your edification:

 

"Do you believe that John Calvin's interpretation of the Bible is on the same level of authority as God himself in your faith? Of course you don't. Then did you know that the teachings of Jacobus Arminius are agreed with by more Christians than those who accept John Calvin's teaching, and that Arminianism teaches the opposite, that in the Bible it shows quite clearly that a Christian can become an ex-Christian? So are you saying you are a Calvinist, rather than a Christian?

 

Are you saying that those who disagree with John Calvin are just plain wrong, and if so how is it that your studies have revealed something that a huge number of other Christians don't agree with? Have you been particularly favored by God to have knowledge so superior to others that you can sit in judgment over those who claim with good reason that they in fact were sincere, active, believing Christians at one point?

 

Isn't that a rather high and mighty presumption based on theological preferences to judge the sincerity of another human being, like me? I sincerely believed in Jesus like you do now. Perhaps you are just finding that the teachings of one particular theologian’s ideas are helping you to respond to the idea that someone like you could change their mind about something that seems so important to you at this time? Does my being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten you?”

 

Calvinism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_points_of_Calvinism

Arminianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism

Edification?

 

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

Does someone being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten me? Of course not, at least not in the sense that's being implied. But if you saw a person standing in front of a MAC Truck that was barreling down the road toward them, would you not be frightened for that person, knowing what was going to happen to them if they failed to get out of the way? Most people will say yes, Christian and non-Christian alike.

Yes, yes of course. I know your answer already about either not being a true believer or being in rebellion. You didn't address one word of my mentioning that Calvinism is a disputed theology. Would you please address these points? Do you consider your theology superior to other Christians who don't accept Calvin's reading of the Bible?

 

Also, I do suspect that someone who was true believer ™ such as you consider yourself, to have been equally as convinced in their hearts of the truth as you are, yet are now standing with eyes wide open and declaring it was delusion, yes I suspect it is simpler for you to dismiss my beliefs today than entertain the possibility you may yourself de-convert as we have.

 

Also, I noticed you ignored every single point I raised before this "ex-Christian" thing. Why is that?

[MatthewBurke]

I would challenge anyone that truly knows what it means to do something with an open heart to ask Him to enter your life.

 

I challenge you to actually step back from your religion and open your eyes. Take a good hard look around you. Actually read about other faiths, cultures, religions and compare it to your faith in your fictional god. I know you can't because you've beeen brainwashed to believe without question.

-----

Already done. Before I became a Christian ten years ago. Stepping back, looking at the world around me. Looking at the root of what many religions taught. This is what led me to call out to God asking him to reveal to me what the truth was.

 

....to those that have an open heart and are solely looking for truth......

 

You see that doesn't make any sense coming from a Christian. Christians are not allowed to search for truth. They are not allowed to question, or to doubt. They are not allowed to use the full faculties of the brain. They must robotically believe all that they are told is the truth, without question. The only truth a Christian knows is the false truth as presented to them by a 2,000 year old Jewish religion.

-----

Wrong again. I question everyday. Even the Bible. I've been to plenty of churches where not everything said was true. I've met plenty of proclaimed atheists that said thing that were true. In fact we are told to question all that we hear.

 

There's a number of ways to prove the existence of God, but revelation is the ultimate proof to any individual.

 

Just as there are a hundred ways to prove the existence of Shiva, Atlas, Mars, Horus, Mithra, Hercules, Allah, Amaterasu, Hachiman,.................

 

Tell me Matthew, do you believe in Allah? If not why not?

-----

Allah was a rock idol in Mecca... one of several hundred

 

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

 

How do you "rebel" against a fictional character in a book? Can you rebel against Harry Potter?

-----

You cannot. But the problem is that Christ is not fictional... this could go on for days so I will not talk about it anymore here.

 

I'm sorry Hans but He's not dead. And the day will come when every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that many of you will truly come to know Him before that day.

 

What's with all these Abrahamic cults and their bowing down to fictional rulers? It's always about how you will bow down to this god or that god.

-----

You tell me. I've already looked into some of them which led me to Christ.

[MatthewBurke]

Talk to you guys tomorrow.

[Ouroboros]

So kissing the right behind is the same as turning the other cheek?

[Jun]

Already done. Before I became a Christian ten years ago. Stepping back, looking at the world around me. Looking at the root of what many religions taught. This is what led me to call out to God asking him to reveal to me what the truth was.

 

Then truly you are delusional. Can't you see truth for yourself? Why do you need a fictional superman to tell you?

 

Wrong again. I question everyday. Even the Bible. I've been to plenty of churches where not everything said was true. I've met plenty of proclaimed atheists that said thing that were true. In fact we are told to question all that we hear

 

If you indeed questioned anything taught to you by your fictional bible you wouldn't be delusional. Christians are taught NOT to question the teachings of "God."

 

You cannot. But the problem is that Christ is not fictional... this could go on for days so I will not talk about it anymore here.

 

Christ is fiction. Harry Potter is real.

 

This is the funniest yet, I asked - What's with all these Abrahamic cults and their bowing down to fictional rulers? It's always about how you will bow down to this god or that god. And you answered -

 

You tell me. I've already looked into some of them which led me to Christ.

 

Ha haha hahahaha. What class are you in little boy? Perhaps you'd better ask your teacher to explain it to you. Ha hahahahahaha!

You can't be older than 15 right? What's with kids in the U.S.?

 

Just for your education Matthew - Abrahamic religion is used to designate the three prevalent monotheistic religions – Judaism, CHRISTIANITY, and Islam – which claim Abraham (Hebrew: Avraham אַבְרָהָם ; Arabic: Ibrahim ابراهيم ) as a part of their sacred history.

[Ouroboros]

Already done. Before I became a Christian ten years ago. Stepping back, looking at the world around me. Looking at the root of what many religions taught. This is what led me to call out to God asking him to reveal to me what the truth was.

Whatever you were before you were a Christian, you were not a real or truthful follower of that thing. If you were an atheist, you weren't a True Atheist™, and if you claim you were a Hindu, you weren't a True Hindu™. You always were a Christian and that's why you are a Christian now.

 

Wrong again. I question everyday. Even the Bible. I've been to plenty of churches where not everything said was true. I've met plenty of proclaimed atheists that said thing that were true. In fact we are told to question all that we hear.

And yet you don't.

 

 

Allah was a rock idol in Mecca... one of several hundred

I think Allah is some derivation from Elohim.

 

You cannot. But the problem is that Christ is not fictional... this could go on for days so I will not talk about it anymore here.

He is fictional, and only delusional people like you talk and have personal relationships with imaginary friends. Get some help, and get some medication.

 

 

You tell me. I've already looked into some of them which led me to Christ.

Did you look into Dionysus or Mithras?

[Jun]

The symbols of the Abrahamic cults - "Allah" in Arabic text, the star of David, and the Christian crucifix symbol of death and murder.

[R. S. Martin]

Where are the contradictions. I said in an earlier post I consider myself to be a "Babe in Christ". I've never been to a Bible College nor do I ever plan on attending one. All I know for certain is that in my journey through the Bible I have never come across any contradictions. I assume that you're talking about different passages referring to Paul's revelation contradicting each other. But where?

 

Are you thirteen or over? I was well under age thirteen (more like eight) when I noticed the first contradiction in the bible. So that argument doesn't work.

[Former Follier]

What do you expect from a blood cult that longs to take a bite out of the Ris as often as possible and wash it down with his blood?

[Dhampir]

I'm sorry Hans but He's not dead. And the day will come when every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that many of you will truly come to know Him before that day.

Y' know, I was thinking about this very thing earlier today. Seems like the day Jesus comes and every knee is forced to bow, and every tongue is forced to yada yada, that it'll be to late for anything, considering that it is a certainty that people are going to hell. Which means that the moment that irrefutable, undeniable proof comes straight to us, it will be after we can repent, which according to that statement, is the day everyone will do so. How cruel is that?

 

On one hand, the knowledge not only of the absolute right way to do everything, or not, but also the existence of the christian gods, is inborn, and undeniable. We all "know" these things, which means that on the great day of scraping and bowing and backpedaling, we'll be without excuse.

 

However, on the other hand, the gospel must be preached to the nations, which means that something necessary to salvation is unknown by the aforementioned inherence. So it stands to reason, that a person can be unconvinced by the body of "evidence", and therefore, it's not an unjustified position to not be convinced until Jesus himself comes to offer proof.

 

My question is, that being the case, why would god do something like allow people who are unconvinced by what has been given, to remain so, neither providing the right kind of evidence for each individual to believe, or allowing repentance when proof is offered? Is faith so much more important than salvation, that honest incredulity is treated like the greatest sin?

[Taphophilia]

Edification?

 

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

Does someone being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten me? Of course not, at least not in the sense that's being implied. But if you saw a person standing in front of a MAC Truck that was barreling down the road toward them, would you not be frightened for that person, knowing what was going to happen to them if they failed to get out of the way? Most people will say yes, Christian and non-Christian alike.

 

You do not use your own words but rely on the words of others for your answers. You are being intellectually dishonest. Do you know how to think or do you only parrot what you have heard? Can you sincerely answer the questions posed to you with your own thoughts and opinoins? Are you so insecure in your faith that it won't hold up to your own examination?

[Japedo]

Already done. Before I became a Christian ten years ago. Stepping back, looking at the world around me. Looking at the root of what many religions taught. This is what led me to call out to God asking him to reveal to me what the truth was.

 

 

"Truth" ™ aye Burke?... For someone who takes pride on Truth ™ it doesn't seem to me that you're being very honest. When questioned about contradictions you fumble for excuses more so then addressing them. You have sidestepped just about every question presented to you, reason is you have no idea what the Truth ™ is.

My version is your faith is built on Buybull Bullshit,a snip of a few verses here and there, all of them conveniently supporting your chosen belief. Anything in the buybull that disagrees with your chosen faith and you have some magic reason why it shouldn't apply. 1) It no longer applies, God changes 2) It's a misinterpretation 3) Something's aren't ment to be taken literal 4) Satan is changing what gawds word says to confuse us. All reasons for certain verses not being applied to you or to mankind of course will always support you and your way. How nice your gawd fits in his perfect little box. You collect all the verses that support your belief and disregard the others, almost as if they don't exist. It's called cherry picking. Gawd doesn't talk to people, just as Santa doesn't. If you "felt" led to commit your mind to a dogma it was by your own needs, not the needs of some gawd.

 

Wrong again. I question everyday. Even the Bible. I've been to plenty of churches where not everything said was true. I've met plenty of proclaimed atheists that said thing that were true. In fact we are told to question all that we hear.

 

 

Burke, You say this and then earlier in your statements you accuse us of not having honestly seeking hearts. You're a hypocrite... I guess we're only considered "honest" to you if we reach the same conclusion. BTW most members here could beat you at any buybull story, one doesn't need to be a scholar to read what's in front of them. One only needs to know how to read and have reading comprehension.

[Jun]

........We are comparing an all knowing fair and just God to a corrupt judicial system.........

 

Let's have a look at that shall we. I KNOW for a fact that Matthew WON'T even bother to read all of these and check them in his bible - after all he claims he already has. But I'll post them anyhow.

 

God's all knowingness - evidence that "God" hasn't studied science:

 

1. God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? 1:16

 

2. God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5

 

3. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The true order of events was just the opposite. 1:1-2:3

 

4. In Genesis 1 the entire creation takes 6 days, but the universe is at least 12 billion years old, with new stars constantly being formed. 1:31

 

5. Humans were not created instantaneously from dust and breath, but evolved over millions of years from simpler life forms. 2:7

 

6. God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14

 

7. "There were giants in the earth in those days." Well, I suppose it's good to know that. But why is there no archaeological evidence for the existence of these giants? 6:4

 

8. "The whole earth was of one language." But this could not be true, since by this time (around 2400 BCE) there were already many languages, each unintelligible to the others. 11:1, 6

 

9. God worries that people could build a tower high enough to reach him (them?) in heaven, and that by so doing they will become omnipotent. 11:4-6

 

And the list goes on and on.........Yeah, "God" sure knows his stuff! About as much as any other ancient race with no knowledge of science.

 

And now let's have a look at the fair and just "God:"

 

1. God punishes Eve, and all women after her, with the pains of childbirth and subjection to men, for eating an apple from a tree that "God" put there for that very specific purpose knowing that she would defy him and eat it! 3:16

 

2. God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

 

3. God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. Sound fair to you? 6:7, 17

 

4. God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

 

5. God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23

 

6. The "just and righteous" Noah (6:9, 7:1) plants a vineyard, gets drunk, and lies around naked in his tent. His son, Ham, happens to see his father in this condition. When Noah sobers up and hears "what his young son had done unto him" (what did he do besides look at him?), he curses not Ham, who "saw the nakedness of his father," but Ham's son, Canaan. "A servant of servants shall he [Canaan] be unto his brethren." This is a typical case of biblical justice, and is one of many Bible passages that have been used to justify slavery. 9:20-25

 

7. God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram's lie. 12:17

 

8. God gives Abraham and his descendants all of the land of Canaan "forever". This promise is still used to justify the unending battles over the land in the Middle East. 13:14-15, 17:8

 

9. An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community. 17:14 "god" "God" just loves having little babies wee wees trimmed short!

 

10. God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family.19:24

 

11. God gets angry with king Abimelech, though the king hasn't even touched Sarah. He says to the king, "Behold, thou art but a dead man," and threatens to kill him and all of his people. To compensate for the crime he never committed, Abimelech gives Abraham sheep, oxen, slaves, silver, and land. Finally, after Abraham "prayed unto God," God lifts his punishment to Abimelech, "for the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah." 20:3-18

 

12. God blessed Abraham by giving him lots of slaves. 24:35

 

13. Isaac loved Esau because Esau was a hunter and Isaac loved venison. Rebekah loved Jacob, but God hated Esau (see Romans 9:13). No reason is given for why one son is loved while the other is hated. But since God chose to act this way, it must have been as an example for parents to follow. Have you decided which of your children to hate? 25:28

 

14. Why are some people born with disabilities? Because God deliberately makes them that way. 4:11

 

15. God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26 Remember, "God" just loves having little babies wee wees trimmed short! (Was "God" gay? Did he prefer trimmed and neat over natural hidden?)

 

16. God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

 

There's just too much injustice on the part of "God" see here for more - http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/inj/long.html

 

In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. It's all in the bible check it out for yourself.

 

That doesn't include killing all living things during the supposed great flood, when "God" had no more control over his wayward humans so he decided to drown them all and start again!

[Vigile]

Just skimming the last few pages its easy to see that Matt has had his ass handed to him and he's the only one who fails to see this.

 

Best answer (paraphrased): "Nuh uh! The gospels were to eyewitness accounts. I know this because my pastor told me so."

 

Your pastor lied when he told you Jesus set you free Matt. You are living in a serious bubble of delusion. Your belief has you all ensnared and only you and your church buddies can't see it. That sounds snide, but it's just me calling it as I see it. I tend to do that a lot.

[Grandpa Harley]

BTW, since you brought up the whole “You were never a real Christian" thing we’re always oh so happy to hear yet one more time, I just posted this response in another thread today to someone who brought that topic up. I’ll share my own quote with you for your edification:

 

"Do you believe that John Calvin's interpretation of the Bible is on the same level of authority as God himself in your faith? Of course you don't. Then did you know that the teachings of Jacobus Arminius are agreed with by more Christians than those who accept John Calvin's teaching, and that Arminianism teaches the opposite, that in the Bible it shows quite clearly that a Christian can become an ex-Christian? So are you saying you are a Calvinist, rather than a Christian?

 

Are you saying that those who disagree with John Calvin are just plain wrong, and if so how is it that your studies have revealed something that a huge number of other Christians don't agree with? Have you been particularly favored by God to have knowledge so superior to others that you can sit in judgment over those who claim with good reason that they in fact were sincere, active, believing Christians at one point?

 

Isn't that a rather high and mighty presumption based on theological preferences to judge the sincerity of another human being, like me? I sincerely believed in Jesus like you do now. Perhaps you are just finding that the teachings of one particular theologian’s ideas are helping you to respond to the idea that someone like you could change their mind about something that seems so important to you at this time? Does my being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten you?”

 

Calvinism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_points_of_Calvinism

Arminianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism

Edification?

 

You were either never a Christian or you are rebelling against Christ.

Does someone being a True ex-Christian ™ frighten me? Of course not, at least not in the sense that's being implied. But if you saw a person standing in front of a MAC Truck that was barreling down the road toward them, would you not be frightened for that person, knowing what was going to happen to them if they failed to get out of the way? Most people will say yes, Christian and non-Christian alike.

So are you a Calvinist or Armenian? you seem to have a masterful way of avoiding direct questions....

 

Where do you stand in dispensationalism?