Christmas

[sonyaj68]

I have no problem with her having a faith, I just don't think that she has an cause to think we want to know about it... We've all been there, fer Christ's sake. I don't discuss my anal fissuring problems, so why should she discuss her faith with us?

 

Agreed

 

THe problem with them is they will insist on flaunting their ignorance like is a virtue.

 

Can someone tell me why they value being dumb as a cinder block so highly?

 

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. I Cor 1:18

 

 

Oooh I'm so sorry I couldn't help myself, and I promised I wouldn't do that. Sorry, Grandpa!

[Ouroboros]

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. I Cor 1:18

Ignorance is bliss, and the Christians are truly blessed. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself either)

[justsomeone]

Justsomeone wrote:

Jill, Gramps sees by more carnal side and cannot or will not see the better essence in me......yet. I will work on that as I can.

 

As to your question I will share something personal about me. I have 11 children, all mine, born of my wife one at a time. They are great kids of course and your example to Sonya rang so true to me. I use arguments like the one you gave, to christians and even non christians all the time.

 

To answer your question, there is nothing that my kids could do that would make me hate them or make me want to see them tortured in any way and I think anyone who believes in God and then believes this God would and could torture just to ease this God's ego or whatever, I think this is satanic thinking...........the serpent in the garden doing it's best work!

 

js

 

 

Hi JS,

 

Again, you didn't answer the question posed.

 

You know, I thought I missed something.

 

Is this the question you refer to?

 

If you have children and you know one of them has done something and you are dishing out punishment (hopefully not banishing them to hell, but as you are a xian and all... I would not be surprised).. and then another one of your kids walks in and says, "hey mum, I will take their punishment for them" would you be OK with that? If the answer is yes, then I see nothing perfect, decent or good about your parenting, if anything it would show that you are at the very least psychologically abusing the BOTH of them. IF however your answer is no...that you would not allow the other child to take responsibility for the guilty ones actions, WHY wouldn't you...?

 

I would not be ok with punishing another child in the place of another erring one. If you are referring to how some people view what Jesus did on the cross I agree with you. If what I read is correct, Jesus did not die on a cross to take my place, to me this typifies something nasty in me getting phased out while something good grows.

 

I would not allow another child to take the punishment for someone else because I think it would not change the erring child's condition.

 

Did this answer your question?

 

Sorry I missed this important point. I am not buttering you up, I like your train of thought here.

 

js

 

Hi JS,

 

yes, thank you you did answer the question finally at least in a sense, however isn't the whole "jesus died on the cross for your sins" THE crux of xianity? Is that not the reason xians "believe"? because of that....god sent his only begotten son...blah blah... as per his plan to allegedly fix his own post "flood and future and "mans"(also part of "his" plan, f*ups?

 

If you personally don't "believe" that from the bible, what IN the bible leads you to christianity?

 

Here is how I view Jesus dying on the cross 'for my sins'.

 

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took. OK, I was born not perfect, carnal. I was a cute little guy though! At some point God so loved the world (me, you, Gramps) that this God sends His only begotton Son into this world (our individual beings). In other words I see this as something comes into my being at some point which kills the carnal while advancing the divine.

 

Sorry for the religious words but you get the drift.

 

The cross is the crux, as I see it in the Bible, as it is the point at which the carnal dies and the divine is born.

 

According to how I see the Bible God did not have to fix anything. The plan from the beginning never got off track. See Jeremiah 18. It is clear that the potter intentionally made the first pot marred and then smashed it and then made a perfect one.

 

How else could someone dying a long time ago help me today? And how does doing something solely physical a long time ago help me now? There's got to be more to this story and I see more.

 

What in the Bible leads me to Christianity? What makes you assume anything in the Bible did?

 

I do get your meaning though so I will try to answer.

 

What in the Bible gets me to look at it a bit closer and try to make some sense out of it may be a better way to put the question. Is this ok with you?

 

What is in the Bible is what is in many books that I read. There is imagination, poetry, excitement, wisdom, good stories, truths to help one live and so on.

 

I think the Christianity you are asking about is miles away from the Christianity I may be talking about.

 

js

[Skankboy]

I think the Christianity you are asking about is miles away from the Christianity I may be talking about.

Unfortunately, the Christianity we're talking about tends to be in the hands of policy makers and lobbiests [sic].

 

You purposely skip alot of the bible in your recounting of it's pluses. I don't blame you. Many would say "don't toss the baby with the bathwater". Problem is, I found a baby that was already clean and didn't need washing. Why deal with dirty bath water at all?

[sonyaj68]

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. I Cor 1:18

Ignorance is bliss, and the Christians are truly blessed. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself either)

:-) You probably didn't mean to make me smile, but you did. I may have that put on a t-shirt.

[Ouroboros]

Ignorance is bliss, and the Christians are truly blessed. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself either)

:-) You probably didn't mean to make me smile, but you did. I may have that put on a t-shirt.

I had no intentions to make you upset or smile, but since you are smiling, then it's all good.

 

Actually it flows better if it's said this way: If ignorance is bliss, then Christians are truly blessed.

[Neon Genesis]

I do have an agenda and it is to rid said thoughts and beliefs of garbage and to add some live healthy growth. This seems to be the place to do this right now and your aversion to my being is actually a big help. Thanks and don't ever stop being you, it's refreshing and helpful me and probably to many.

There's just one problem here and that's we think all of Christianity is garbage because we don't believe it's real. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to grasp? And how do you know your beliefs aren't also "garbage?" How do you know your growth is healthy for other people just because you think it's healthy for you?

[GraphicsGuy]

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took.

 

I'll second Madame M. by saying that I hate this crap doctrine. Whether you are speaking physically or spiritually is doesn't matter.

 

This is the teaching in Xianity and it says one thing...a horrible message screamed to the masses:

 

You have no value as a human being! Without Jesus you are as worthless as dogshit! (I know this is the Colosseum, but the "dogshit" has context here )

 

It is an absolute lie and if there was a pit of hell it would be directly from there. Everyone has value, but when you are taught that you don't unless you submit to some higher power it is damaging. Especially if you suffer from depression/low self-esteem in the first place. People commit suicide over this even.

 

So, justsomeone, in my opinion you weren't born that way...but Xianity may turn you into something resembling just that...

[Ouroboros]

In my opinion my kids were beautiful, and that they crapped or were wrinkled, or were screaming, that's secondary. They were still wonderful beings. Now they're grown up and don't need my help anymore...

 

Compare this to the Christian doctrine, it doesn't match. Since Christianity says:

 

You were an ugly, awful, disgusting baby, and now when you have grown up you still need diapers and Jesus will change them for you. Don't even think to become independent or freed from the bondage of childhood.

 

What is it that I'm missing here? Christianity does not match the illustration of "father" vs "baby" and then "matured being" etc. at all, but rather the opposite.

 

The True Christians are the ones that break free from the bondage of it. Like us.

[justsomeone]

In my opinion my kids were beautiful, and that they crapped or were wrinkled, or were screaming, that's secondary. They were still wonderful beings. Now they're grown up and don't need my help anymore...

 

Compare this to the Christian doctrine, it doesn't match. Since Christianity says:

 

You were an ugly, awful, disgusting baby, and now when you have grown up you still need diapers and Jesus will change them for you. Don't even think to become independent or freed from the bondage of childhood.

 

What is it that I'm missing here? Christianity does not match the illustration of "father" vs "baby" and then "matured being" etc. at all, but rather the opposite.

 

The True Christians are the ones that break free from the bondage of it. Like us.

 

Whoa Han,

 

I think you got something there. Holy bananas, I think you said something in 16 words what I tried to say in about 10,000. I mean it. If I don't get anything else off this board, I think this was worth coming here.

 

You said "The True Christians are the ones that break free from the bondage of it. Like us."

 

This is what I am trying to say. I said I broke free from going to church about 5 years ago. I said you all or most of you all anyway have left the crap of "Christianity".

 

Think about it Han. This Jesus came to the harlots, drunks, crab heads, slobs, the foul mouthed and so on. Thus are some of us on this forum. I really believe that if Jesus came today he would feel very comfortable with you all here. He would shun the church junk.

 

I am on a cloud here.

 

You da man.

 

js jeeeeeese louise that's it!!!!!!

[Jillian]

Justsomeone wrote:

Here is how I view Jesus dying on the cross 'for my sins'.

 

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took. OK, I was born not perfect, carnal. I was a cute little guy though! At some point God so loved the world (me, you, Gramps) that this God sends His only begotton Son into this world (our individual beings). In other words I see this as something comes into my being at some point which kills the carnal while advancing the divine.

 

Sorry for the religious words but you get the drift.

 

What a bunch of bollocks and perhaps the best thing for you to do is re-read Madame M's input as to your comments because I concur!

I fail to see how you can even elude that a nappy-wearing helpless baby is "carnal". Perhaps you should actually investigate the meaning/definition of the word, prior to bandying it around as you are, or is its definition to you, like everything else you tend to "believe" a machination of your own warped mind? I have to say that I am frightened for your children with you as their parental influence. Your comments have conjured up thoughts of you changing an infants nappy and you yelling "sinner!!!!" at them because of this necessary bodily function! What frightens me even more is that y ou want to adopt 2 more? *shaking head* All I can say to that is, I hope the psychological evaluation you should have to take to persue that, nips that in the bud!

 

 

The cross is the crux, as I see it in the Bible, as it is the point at which the carnal dies and the divine is born.

 

The cross is the crux to you, NOT jesus'alleged death itself? No doubt if the story had read he was stoned to death, the stones would be the crux... yes.. I "get" it... your symbolism BS takes over.

 

 

According to how I see the Bible God did not have to fix anything. The plan from the beginning never got off track. See Jeremiah 18. It is clear that the potter intentionally made the first pot marred and then smashed it and then made a perfect one.

 

Ok so as you "see it" Mr Omni's f*ups were part of the plan all along...perhaps to show, even IN "perfection" things always don't go right the first time? Umm.. doesn't that rule out PERFECTION?

 

How else could someone dying a long time ago help me today? And how does doing something solely physical a long time ago help me now? There's got to be more to this story and I see more.

 

Hmm.... Well, it is yet to be proven that your jesus fellow was actually born in the first place, let alone died for you. Why don't you work on that part of the story first then we can discuss what you make of it.

 

What in the Bible leads me to Christianity? What makes you assume anything in the Bible did?

 

It is quite simple. ALL religion, whether christianity, taoism, islam...etc is nothing more than a taught concept, rather than an intrinsic or reflex knowledge. In your case, without the christian bible, or at least someone telling you OF it, through preaching it to you as "truth" (again FROM the bible..or from information obtained FROM the NT) could you even pretend to "know" anything about jesus. If I am off the mark here, then tell me how you learned of jesus otherwise?

 

I do get your meaning though so I will try to answer.

 

I don't think you did given your comments below..which are:

 

What in the Bible gets me to look at it a bit closer and try to make some sense out of it may be a better way to put the question. Is this ok with you?

 

What is in the Bible is what is in many books that I read. There is imagination, poetry, excitement, wisdom, good stories, truths to help one live and so on.

 

I think the Christianity you are asking about is miles away from the Christianity I may be talking about.

 

No, there is nothing necessarily unique as to how you see "it". All denominations, pluck pick and choose what aspects of the bible they deem as "right" for them and you are no different, Regardless of WHAT you decide to "take on" or choose to exclude as "junk", whether metaphorically, symbolically or otherwise, still comes from a taught concept that has been instilled in you and nothing more.

[justsomeone]

Justsomeone wrote:

Here is how I view Jesus dying on the cross 'for my sins'.

 

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took. OK, I was born not perfect, carnal. I was a cute little guy though! At some point God so loved the world (me, you, Gramps) that this God sends His only begotton Son into this world (our individual beings). In other words I see this as something comes into my being at some point which kills the carnal while advancing the divine.

 

Sorry for the religious words but you get the drift.

 

What a bunch of bollocks and perhaps the best thing for you to do is re-read Madame M's input as to your comments because I concur!

I fail to see how you can even elude that a nappy-wearing helpless baby is "carnal". Perhaps you should actually investigate the meaning/definition of the word, prior to bandying it around as you are, or is its definition to you, like everything else you tend to "believe" a machination of your own warped mind? I have to say that I am frightened for your children with you as their parental influence. Your comments have conjured up thoughts of you changing an infants nappy and you yelling "sinner!!!!" at them because of this necessary bodily function! What frightens me even more is that y ou want to adopt 2 more? *shaking head* All I can say to that is, I hope the psychological evaluation you should have to take to persue that, nips that in the bud!

 

 

The cross is the crux, as I see it in the Bible, as it is the point at which the carnal dies and the divine is born.

 

The cross is the crux to you, NOT jesus'alleged death itself? No doubt if the story had read he was stoned to death, the stones would be the crux... yes.. I "get" it... your symbolism BS takes over.

 

 

According to how I see the Bible God did not have to fix anything. The plan from the beginning never got off track. See Jeremiah 18. It is clear that the potter intentionally made the first pot marred and then smashed it and then made a perfect one.

 

Ok so as you "see it" Mr Omni's f*ups were part of the plan all along...perhaps to show, even IN "perfection" things always don't go right the first time? Umm.. doesn't that rule out PERFECTION?

 

How else could someone dying a long time ago help me today? And how does doing something solely physical a long time ago help me now? There's got to be more to this story and I see more.

 

Hmm.... Well, it is yet to be proven that your jesus fellow was actually born in the first place, let alone died for you. Why don't you work on that part of the story first then we can discuss what you make of it.

 

What in the Bible leads me to Christianity? What makes you assume anything in the Bible did?

 

It is quite simple. ALL religion, whether christianity, taoism, islam...etc is nothing more than a taught concept, rather than an intrinsic or reflex knowledge. In your case, without the christian bible, or at least someone telling you OF it, through preaching it to you as "truth" (again FROM the bible..or from information obtained FROM the NT) could you even pretend to "know" anything about jesus. If I am off the mark here, then tell me how you learned of jesus otherwise?

 

I do get your meaning though so I will try to answer.

 

I don't think you did given your comments below..which are:

 

What in the Bible gets me to look at it a bit closer and try to make some sense out of it may be a better way to put the question. Is this ok with you?

 

What is in the Bible is what is in many books that I read. There is imagination, poetry, excitement, wisdom, good stories, truths to help one live and so on.

 

I think the Christianity you are asking about is miles away from the Christianity I may be talking about.

 

No, there is nothing necessarily unique as to how you see "it". All denominations, pluck pick and choose what aspects of the bible they deem as "right" for them and you are no different, Regardless of WHAT you decide to "take on" or choose to exclude as "junk", whether metaphorically, symbolically or otherwise, still comes from a taught concept that has been instilled in you and nothing more.

 

Jillian, you got me. I am way out to lunch, a nasty parent, diabolically nasty, a bad husband and very inarticulate. You are way my superior to even condescend to my level so I wonder why you even waste the time responding.

 

Read my current posts tonight in this Christmas thread and maybe go to the Lions Den. No matter what I say you will rip it apart and that is fine for it the long run it is as you say I suppose but I must live and think and help where I can but if you really see me as such a rotten ignorant bastard from my words these last few days then that's the way you will see it.

 

Not giving up, just tired of juvinile arguments. Mine of course, never yours!

 

js

[Grandpa Harley]

In my opinion my kids were beautiful, and that they crapped or were wrinkled, or were screaming, that's secondary. They were still wonderful beings. Now they're grown up and don't need my help anymore...

 

Compare this to the Christian doctrine, it doesn't match. Since Christianity says:

 

You were an ugly, awful, disgusting baby, and now when you have grown up you still need diapers and Jesus will change them for you. Don't even think to become independent or freed from the bondage of childhood.

 

What is it that I'm missing here? Christianity does not match the illustration of "father" vs "baby" and then "matured being" etc. at all, but rather the opposite.

 

The True Christians are the ones that break free from the bondage of it. Like us.

 

And Chrsitians claim that everyone else's doctrine lacks 'beauty' when they see humans as stinking, venal apes... gaping voids of sin and depravity withint the body of a 'perfect' god... so much for in the image of god... pah!

[hereticzero]

Justsomeone wrote:

QUOTE

Here is how I view Jesus dying on the cross 'for my sins'.

 

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took. OK, I was born not perfect, carnal. I was a cute little guy though! At some point God so loved the world (me, you, Gramps) that this God sends His only begotton Son into this world (our individual beings). In other words I see this as something comes into my being at some point which kills the carnal while advancing the divine.

 

Sorry for the religious words but you get the drift.

UNQUOTE

 

All you keep repeating is stuff about Jesus and there is no proof he ever existed. If genesis is a fable then Jesus too is fiction, without genesis there is no jesus.

[Ouroboros]

...Holy bananas,...

Holy cows, and holy crap, now we also have holy bananas...

 

Anyway, you're welcome.

 

I did (and sometimes still do) feel that I have the freedom to live a more moral and ethical life according to how Gal 5:22 say you should. That's why I think the symbols like "God" and "spirit" and so on, points back to us, to ourselves, to our inner being. We are the gods of our religions. My whole Christian life I expected God to help me in difficult situations, and honestly I never saw anything miraculous that got me out of the bind. But the day when I lost my faith and started to act on my own accord and using my own mind and making things happen instead of just waiting around on some imaginary God... that's when miracles happened: in the form of results from my own hand and through my own mind and will.

[Jillian]

JS wrote:

"Jillian, you got me. I am way out to lunch, a nasty parent, diabolically nasty, a bad husband and very inarticulate. You are way my superior to even condescend to my level so I wonder why you even waste the time responding.

 

Nice try at playing "victim" even with the evident sarcasm inserted. All your rants do is defer from the issues posed in my post to you, enabling you to avoid them. So I ask again, other than the bible or at least references to it, what was it that YOU assume lead you to belief in christianity? IF my assumption was wrong, then where/how DID you learn of jesus? As for my - as you claim- superiority? lol Nope! I am not the one claiming, through self interpretation or otherwise what IS an alleged "truth" and what isn't. You see I don't actually "do" THE (ie absolute) truth as variables always get in the way.

 

 

Read my current posts tonight in this Christmas thread and maybe go to the Lions Den. No matter what I say you will rip it apart and that is fine for it the long run it is as you say I suppose but I must live and think and help where I can but if you really see me as such a rotten ignorant bastard from my words these last few days then that's the way you will see it.

 

You see it as my ripping your comments apart, well you own that interpretation. I simply see it as showing you a different perspective. It is not my doing that you never seem to have, either a logical or connative retort,

 

 

Not giving up, just tired of juvinile arguments. Mine of course, never yours!

 

If you believe I have given any juvenile "arguement" in our discussion (from your perspective) you have not at any point voiced it. I personally have no issue with my own thoughts being challenged though, so if you DO challenge anything I have written, then say so.

 

And while you are there please address the other things I posed as well!

 

Tah JS.

 

J.

[justsomeone]

JS wrote:

"Jillian, you got me. I am way out to lunch, a nasty parent, diabolically nasty, a bad husband and very inarticulate. You are way my superior to even condescend to my level so I wonder why you even waste the time responding.

 

Nice try at playing "victim" even with the evident sarcasm inserted. All your rants do is defer from the issues posed in my post to you, enabling you to avoid them. So I ask again, other than the bible or at least references to it, what was it that YOU assume lead you to belief in christianity? IF my assumption was wrong, then where/how DID you learn of jesus? As for my - as you claim- superiority? lol Nope! I am not the one claiming, through self interpretation or otherwise what IS an alleged "truth" and what isn't. You see I don't actually "do" THE (ie absolute) truth as variables always get in the way.

 

 

Read my current posts tonight in this Christmas thread and maybe go to the Lions Den. No matter what I say you will rip it apart and that is fine for it the long run it is as you say I suppose but I must live and think and help where I can but if you really see me as such a rotten ignorant bastard from my words these last few days then that's the way you will see it.

 

You see it as my ripping your comments apart, well you own that interpretation. I simply see it as showing you a different perspective. It is not my doing that you never seem to have, either a logical or connative retort,

 

 

Not giving up, just tired of juvinile arguments. Mine of course, never yours!

 

If you believe I have given any juvenile "arguement" in our discussion (from your perspective) you have not at any point voiced it. I personally have no issue with my own thoughts being challenged though, so if you DO challenge anything I have written, then say so.

 

And while you are there please address the other things I posed as well!

 

Tah JS.

 

J.

 

J, you ask

 

"So I ask again, other than the bible or at least references to it, what was it that YOU assume lead you to belief in christianity?"

 

Same as what led me to believe in Santa Clause.

 

Let me ask you, why is anyone led to believe in anything outside of science like love? Do you believe in love? If so, why?

 

You ask

 

"where/how DID you learn of jesus?"

 

Still learning it seems.

 

You request,

 

"And while you are there please address the other things I posed as well!"

 

Please ask again as now I am learning to just answer the questions posed which is the proper thing to do as Neon pointed out and I am tired of trying to find the questions I missed.

 

js

[justsomeone]

...Holy bananas,...

Holy cows, and holy crap, now we also have holy bananas...

 

Anyway, you're welcome.

 

I did (and sometimes still do) feel that I have the freedom to live a more moral and ethical life according to how Gal 5:22 say you should. That's why I think the symbols like "God" and "spirit" and so on, points back to us, to ourselves, to our inner being. We are the gods of our religions. My whole Christian life I expected God to help me in difficult situations, and honestly I never saw anything miraculous that got me out of the bind. But the day when I lost my faith and started to act on my own accord and using my own mind and making things happen instead of just waiting around on some imaginary God... that's when miracles happened: in the form of results from my own hand and through my own mind and will.

 

Good stuff.

 

The kingdom of heaven is within.

 

I too see this as a very internal thing.

 

Thanks Han.

 

js

[justsomeone]

Justsomeone wrote:

QUOTE

Here is how I view Jesus dying on the cross 'for my sins'.

 

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took. OK, I was born not perfect, carnal. I was a cute little guy though! At some point God so loved the world (me, you, Gramps) that this God sends His only begotton Son into this world (our individual beings). In other words I see this as something comes into my being at some point which kills the carnal while advancing the divine.

 

Sorry for the religious words but you get the drift.

UNQUOTE

 

All you keep repeating is stuff about Jesus and there is no proof he ever existed. If genesis is a fable then Jesus too is fiction, without genesis there is no jesus.

 

HZ, I talk about Jesus when asked about Jesus. What do you do when asked about automobiles? Talk about your warm and fuzzy teddybear you slept with as a child?

 

There are many realities in my life, physical, mental and spiritual. I do not carry about volumes of data to prove everything in my life exists.

 

Who said Genesis is a fable?

 

js

[justsomeone]

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took.

 

I'll second Madame M. by saying that I hate this crap doctrine. Whether you are speaking physically or spiritually is doesn't matter.

 

This is the teaching in Xianity and it says one thing...a horrible message screamed to the masses:

 

You have no value as a human being! Without Jesus you are as worthless as dogshit! (I know this is the Colosseum, but the "dogshit" has context here )

 

It is an absolute lie and if there was a pit of hell it would be directly from there. Everyone has value, but when you are taught that you don't unless you submit to some higher power it is damaging. Especially if you suffer from depression/low self-esteem in the first place. People commit suicide over this even.

 

So, justsomeone, in my opinion you weren't born that way...but Xianity may turn you into something resembling just that...

 

Hey Graphic,

 

May I ask what you think makes you so valuable?

 

js

[justsomeone]

I was born a nasty creature. Wrinkly, whiney, soiled my diapers, took took took. OK, I was born not perfect, carnal.

 

This statement really annoyed me. Do you know nothing of human development. Being "wrinkly" is not a sin nor is being unwrinkly (is that a word) a virtue. Whiney? Do you mean how babies cry to communicate their needs. Oh wait, they can't talk. How else are they supposed to get their needs known. You must be so damn sinful when you pull up the the McDonalds drive thru and use your mode of communication (speech) to express your hunger needs (burger and fries). Soiled your diapers. Oh no, a biological function with a purpose occuring in a human being who is young- oh the horror. They should just hold it until they learn to walk and use the toilet, right? How is any of that "sinful". None of it is. I suppose your jesus was born without wrinkle, walking, talking, cooking full meals for himself and using the toilet, right? he was "perfect" as you claim, correct?

 

You've proven nothing but that you are a wretched shit. I despise the christian teaching that we are all sinful and all human beings start out selfish because they need to eat, poop and can't care for their own needs. It's a DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE. And if you live long enough and end up on poor health, you will be back at that stage in your old age, and you'd better hope you have someone like me caring for you instead of some fundamentalist nut job like yourself who believes wrinkly, whiney, diaper wearers are sinful beasts.

 

Why don't you get off the net and take care of your 11 kids you self centered ass.

 

Hi Mad,

 

I don't really care that you got annoyed. Actually it is a sign of life.

 

You ask

 

"Do you know nothing of human development."

 

No, I do not know nothing of it, I do know something of it.

 

You ask

 

"Being "wrinkly" is not a sin nor is being unwrinkly (is that a word) a virtue. Whiney? Do you mean how babies cry to communicate their needs."

 

I don't know if it is a word. As to whiney, yes that is what I mean. I hear the same 'whiney' from some on this board and it is sinful. If the word sinful annoys you then try disgusting or irritating.

 

You comment

 

"You must be so damn sinful when you pull up the the McDonalds drive thru and use your mode of communication (speech) to express your hunger needs (burger and fries). "

 

Sometimes I am, especially if they misinterpret what I communicate so clearly to them or if they take too long. You have no idea how 'sinful' I can be.

 

You ask

 

"How is any of that "sinful".

 

You got me. Bad analogy on my part. I just can't bring myself to say babies are sinful because of the way they express their needs. You have shown me my analogy is bad.

 

Let me ask you. Are all babies perfect creatures and only get screwed up when they get older?

 

You ask

 

"I suppose your jesus was born without wrinkle, walking, talking, cooking full meals for himself and using the toilet, right? he was "perfect" as you claim, correct?"

 

There you go, putting words into my mouth. Please show me where I claimed that Jesus was perfect. If you can't show me then please show me the courtesy of refraining from assumptions because you know what happens when you assume don't you? If you don't, let me tell you. You make a complete ass out of yourself. Of course your friends on this forum will back you 100% but in the grand scheme of things you are still an ass if you assume too much.

 

You state

 

"You've proven nothing but that you are a wretched shit."

 

Oh that really hurts, Mad and it is so helpful because it is so imformative. If that is your best contribution to our discussion I look forward to much 'light' from you. Right! With statements like that you've proven nothing but that you are very juvenile and vulgar. Do you eat with that mouth?

 

You ask

 

"Why don't you get off the net and take care of your 11 kids you self centered ass."

 

When the kids wake up, as one just did, I will take care of them as I need to. It is 6.46 am here as I write and one of my kids just got up and came over and kissed my shoulder, said 'I love you' and went over to the couch to lay down. I do not need you nor anyone else to tell me to take care of my kids, thank you anyway.

 

js

[Jillian]

J, you ask

 

"So I ask again, other than the bible or at least references to it, what was it that YOU assume lead you to belief in christianity?"

 

Same as what led me to believe in Santa Clause.

 

Oh, so that Tim Allen movie, huh?

 

Let me ask you, why is anyone led to believe in anything outside of science like love? Do you believe in love? If so, why?

 

I don't really think that something intrinsic/instinctual within each and every one of us has to actually BE believed IN. It just is, much like having to go to the loo, having to eat and these things are just things we DO from birth and no guidance book is required to tell us HOW to do these things or to tell us we SHOULD. Do you believe in faeces, justsomeone? Yes silly question I realise but just as ludicrous as the one you asked.

 

You ask

 

"where/how DID you learn of jesus?"

 

Still learning it seems.

 

then see "The Santa Clause II I suggest...

 

You request,

 

"And while you are there please address the other things I posed as well!"

 

Please ask again as now I am learning to just answer the questions posed which is the proper thing to do as Neon pointed out and I am tired of trying to find the questions I missed.

 

js

 

Nah, I won't bother.

[Alice]

Hi Mad,

 

I don't really care that you got annoyed. Actually it is a sign of life.

 

You ask

 

"Do you know nothing of human development."

 

No, I do not know nothing of it, I do know something of it.

 

You ask

 

"Being "wrinkly" is not a sin nor is being unwrinkly (is that a word) a virtue. Whiney? Do you mean how babies cry to communicate their needs."

 

I don't know if it is a word. As to whiney, yes that is what I mean. I hear the same 'whiney' from some on this board and it is sinful. If the word sinful annoys you then try disgusting or irritating.

 

You comment

 

"You must be so damn sinful when you pull up the the McDonalds drive thru and use your mode of communication (speech) to express your hunger needs (burger and fries). "

 

Sometimes I am, especially if they misinterpret what I communicate so clearly to them or if they take too long. You have no idea how 'sinful' I can be.

 

You ask

 

"How is any of that "sinful".

 

You got me. Bad analogy on my part. I just can't bring myself to say babies are sinful because of the way they express their needs. You have shown me my analogy is bad.

 

Let me ask you. Are all babies perfect creatures and only get screwed up when they get older?

 

You ask

 

"I suppose your jesus was born without wrinkle, walking, talking, cooking full meals for himself and using the toilet, right? he was "perfect" as you claim, correct?"

 

There you go, putting words into my mouth. Please show me where I claimed that Jesus was perfect. If you can't show me then please show me the courtesy of refraining from assumptions because you know what happens when you assume don't you? If you don't, let me tell you. You make a complete ass out of yourself. Of course your friends on this forum will back you 100% but in the grand scheme of things you are still an ass if you assume too much.

 

You state

 

"You've proven nothing but that you are a wretched shit."

 

Oh that really hurts, Mad and it is so helpful because it is so imformative. If that is your best contribution to our discussion I look forward to much 'light' from you. Right! With statements like that you've proven nothing but that you are very juvenile and vulgar. Do you eat with that mouth?

 

You ask

 

"Why don't you get off the net and take care of your 11 kids you self centered ass."

 

When the kids wake up, as one just did, I will take care of them as I need to. It is 6.46 am here as I write and one of my kids just got up and came over and kissed my shoulder, said 'I love you' and went over to the couch to lay down. I do not need you nor anyone else to tell me to take care of my kids, thank you anyway.

 

js

 

JS,

 

do you see what you did here? You accept that you used a bad analogy - you almost seem to acknowldege that your analogy was saying that babies are sinful for communicating their needs ... but then you turn right round and argue as if you had used a good analogy... you assume that somehow MM should have known the idea you conveyed with your analogy was not your intention and you react to her irritation as if she should have been able to read your mind ... you ass!

 

(This is not my terminolgy, it is yours. I am not in the habit of calling people, 'ass' - whether or not they are making assumptions or not. I simply use your terminology to highlight your pot/kettle/black approach in this context.)

 

For people who have left literalist christianity your analogy implies original sin in babies. This idea about babies is all around us in the west .. 'Is he or she a 'good' baby?' - usually meaning does she/he sleep through the night and does he/she not cry much. (neither of which are necessarily healthy attributes in a young baby)

 

You question whether or not MM believes that babies are born 'perfect' - where are you seeing the concept of a 'perfect' baby, in anything that has been written here - for you to question thus?

[justsomeone]

J, you ask

 

"So I ask again, other than the bible or at least references to it, what was it that YOU assume lead you to belief in christianity?"

 

Same as what led me to believe in Santa Clause.

 

Oh, so that Tim Allen movie, huh?

 

Let me ask you, why is anyone led to believe in anything outside of science like love? Do you believe in love? If so, why?

 

I don't really think that something intrinsic/instinctual within each and every one of us has to actually BE believed IN. It just is, much like having to go to the loo, having to eat and these things are just things we DO from birth and no guidance book is required to tell us HOW to do these things or to tell us we SHOULD. Do you believe in faeces, justsomeone? Yes silly question I realise but just as ludicrous as the one you asked.

 

You ask

 

"where/how DID you learn of jesus?"

 

Still learning it seems.

 

then see "The Santa Clause II I suggest...

 

You request,

 

"And while you are there please address the other things I posed as well!"

 

Please ask again as now I am learning to just answer the questions posed which is the proper thing to do as Neon pointed out and I am tired of trying to find the questions I missed.

 

js

 

Nah, I won't bother.

 

J,

 

You stated

 

"I don't really think that something intrinsic/instinctual within each and every one of us has to actually BE believed IN. It just is, much like having to go to the loo, having to eat and these things are just things we DO from birth and no guidance book is required to tell us HOW to do these things or to tell us we SHOULD. Do you believe in faeces, justsomeone? Yes silly question I realise but just as ludicrous as the one you asked."

 

I find this an awesome thought. Thanks.

 

If God is real maybe knowledge of this God will or does happen in exactly the same way.

 

I think if God created us then deep down there is God in each one of us and it will intrinsically and instinctually find it's way to the surface.

 

Kind of like our kids. There is a bit of us in them.

 

It just is. Very profound in my book.

 

You ask

 

"Do you believe in faeces, justsomeone? "

 

What is faeces? Feces? Crap? Poop? Excrement?

 

If this is what you mean, what do you mean, 'Do I believe in it?'

 

I like your 'accent'.

 

js

[justsomeone]

Hi Mad,

 

I don't really care that you got annoyed. Actually it is a sign of life.

 

You ask

 

"Do you know nothing of human development."

 

No, I do not know nothing of it, I do know something of it.

 

You ask

 

"Being "wrinkly" is not a sin nor is being unwrinkly (is that a word) a virtue. Whiney? Do you mean how babies cry to communicate their needs."

 

I don't know if it is a word. As to whiney, yes that is what I mean. I hear the same 'whiney' from some on this board and it is sinful. If the word sinful annoys you then try disgusting or irritating.

 

You comment

 

"You must be so damn sinful when you pull up the the McDonalds drive thru and use your mode of communication (speech) to express your hunger needs (burger and fries). "

 

Sometimes I am, especially if they misinterpret what I communicate so clearly to them or if they take too long. You have no idea how 'sinful' I can be.

 

You ask

 

"How is any of that "sinful".

 

You got me. Bad analogy on my part. I just can't bring myself to say babies are sinful because of the way they express their needs. You have shown me my analogy is bad.

 

Let me ask you. Are all babies perfect creatures and only get screwed up when they get older?

 

You ask

 

"I suppose your jesus was born without wrinkle, walking, talking, cooking full meals for himself and using the toilet, right? he was "perfect" as you claim, correct?"

 

There you go, putting words into my mouth. Please show me where I claimed that Jesus was perfect. If you can't show me then please show me the courtesy of refraining from assumptions because you know what happens when you assume don't you? If you don't, let me tell you. You make a complete ass out of yourself. Of course your friends on this forum will back you 100% but in the grand scheme of things you are still an ass if you assume too much.

 

You state

 

"You've proven nothing but that you are a wretched shit."

 

Oh that really hurts, Mad and it is so helpful because it is so imformative. If that is your best contribution to our discussion I look forward to much 'light' from you. Right! With statements like that you've proven nothing but that you are very juvenile and vulgar. Do you eat with that mouth?

 

You ask

 

"Why don't you get off the net and take care of your 11 kids you self centered ass."

 

When the kids wake up, as one just did, I will take care of them as I need to. It is 6.46 am here as I write and one of my kids just got up and came over and kissed my shoulder, said 'I love you' and went over to the couch to lay down. I do not need you nor anyone else to tell me to take care of my kids, thank you anyway.

 

js

 

JS,

 

do you see what you did here? You accept that you used a bad analogy - you almost seem to acknowldege that your analogy was saying that babies are sinful for communicating their needs ... but then you turn right round and argue as if you had used a good analogy... you assume that somehow MM should have known the idea you conveyed with your analogy was not your intention and you react to her irritation as if she should have been able to read your mind ... you ass!

 

(This is not my terminolgy, it is yours. I am not in the habit of calling people, 'ass' - whether or not they are making assumptions or not. I simply use your terminology to highlight your pot/kettle/black approach in this context.)

 

For people who have left literalist christianity your analogy implies original sin in babies. This idea about babies is all around us in the west .. 'Is he or she a 'good' baby?' - usually meaning does she/he sleep through the night and does he/she not cry much. (neither of which are necessarily healthy attributes in a young baby)

 

You question whether or not MM believes that babies are born 'perfect' - where are you seeing the concept of a 'perfect' baby, in anything that has been written here - for you to question thus?

 

You ask and comment

 

"do you see what you did here? You accept that you used a bad analogy - you almost seem to acknowldege that your analogy was saying that babies are sinful for communicating their needs ... but then you turn right round and argue as if you had used a good analogy... you assume that somehow MM should have known the idea you conveyed with your analogy was not your intention and you react to her irritation as if she should have been able to read your mind ... you ass!"

 

I see what I did. Comments read and acknowledged. Thanks.........except for the 'you ass' part. Shows a bit childishness and superiority on your part that isn't flattering to you.

 

You stated

 

"(This is not my terminolgy, it is yours. I am not in the habit of calling people, 'ass' - whether or not they are making assumptions or not. I simply use your terminology to highlight your pot/kettle/black approach in this context.)"

 

You use it you own it but I understand a bit better and am relieved. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Babies are beautiful and they are life. They are miracles. Now 3 of my 'babies' are up and all of them have greeted me quite warmly as I ignore them to write to strangers (friends yet???). I just told one that I will finish and make him some eggs and sausage. He is very excited. Doesn't take much to please these BLESSINGS.

 

You ask

 

"You question whether or not MM believes that babies are born 'perfect' - where are you seeing the concept of a 'perfect' baby, in anything that has been written here - for you to question thus?"

 

I have not seen the concept of a perfect baby in anything on this forum and that is why I asked.

 

Even though this question was posed to Mad, it is obviously open to all including you. You commented on it but did not answer it. Please do as I am trying to comment and answer all your questions.

 

Are babies born perfect, J?

 

I respect you.

 

js