Definition of Sin

[Lunar Shadow]

Here is what savedbyfear's posts are like

 

Post 1:  turn or burn

 

Post 2:  you'll burn if you don't turn

 

Post 3:  God loves you.  turn or burn

 

Post 4:  I am so blessed.  burn if you don't turn

 

Post 5:  by faith alone.  turn or burn

 

Post 6:  let me teach you.  burn if you don't turn

 

Post 7:  I'll pray for you.  turn or burn.

 

saved:  the only thing burning are your ears.

 

 

 

[crazy-tiger]

[sBF] "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32)  If you haven't experienced the life-changing transformation from death to life, you can do that right now.

 

Just tell God you are willing to repent of your sins and that you believe Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead.  Receive him by faith and He will save you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What sins? You haven't even managed to define what sin is...

 

 

But, to help you, lets see what "sins" there are...

 

No such thing as "original sin", since God said that he would never punish a child for the sins of it's parents.

No such thing as "sin nature", since that is derived from the "original sin" concept.

No such thing as the sin of non-belief, since God said that belief and faith are not required to get into heaven. Being a good person is the only requirement.

 

In fact, if you check through the OT, you'll find an extremely small amount of sins and they're ones that are very uncommon nowadays.

 

 

Of course, you will reference the NT... where Jesus and the rest re-write Gods laws. THAT is a sin, one which God gets mighty pissed about.

The NT, which has been re-written numerous times.

The NT, which has be translated numerous times and now contains proven errors.

The NT, which has been admitted to contain FAKED works.

 

You are referencing a LIE, one which you claim is Gods word, and you say WE should repent??

 

 

You should spend some time checking the facts about your "holy book" as you have no idea what a con it is.

[Lunar Shadow]

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32)  If you haven't experienced the life-changing transformation from death to life, you can do that right now.

 

Why is it that Xtians always find it necessary to quote the bible when taking to people who do not share their beliefs? I mean COME ON! We don't put any stock in that book of yours. What do you expect some magical powers to come and for us to turn all of a sudden?

[crazy-tiger]

[sBF] "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32)  If you haven't experienced the life-changing transformation from death to life, you can do that right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone fancy throwing a corresponding verse from the Quran at him?

 

 

When he understands why he doesn't accept Quranic verses, he'll understand why we don't accept biblical verses...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

[Mythra]

Why is it that Xtians always find it necessary to quote the bible when taking to people who do not share their beliefs? I mean COME ON! We don't put any stock in that book of yours. What do you expect some magical powers to come and for us to turn all of a sudden?

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Don't you know, Jester? The verses in the bible are magical. God's word shall not come back void. Just keep spewin out those verses.

 

It's like throwing spaghetti up against the wall. Sooner or later something's bound to stick.

 

Which might be true if we were all 13 years old and hadn't already gone the complete gamut of this mind-trip.

[Mythra]

Anyone fancy throwing a corresponding verse from the Quran at him?

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Hell, I already did. The thought went into his head, and died of loneliness.

[Guest Priapus]

Why is it that Xtians always find it necessary to quote the bible when taking to people who do not share their beliefs? I mean COME ON! We don't put any stock in that book of yours. What do you expect some magical powers to come and for us to turn all of a sudden?

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But what is truly maddening is when you make the allowances that the Bible is authentic and are willing to overlook the contradictions and allow that God's Holy Mysteries will endure, SavedByFaith STILL cannot deliver more than empty platitudes.

 

 

Give me something concrete, SavedByFaith, some rock on which I can build my house, as it were. Otherwise I can only conclude that there is no there there.

[crazy-tiger]

Hell, I already did.  The thought went into his head, and died of loneliness.

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You trying to say that he's thoughtless?

[thomas]

[sBF] "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32)  If you haven't experienced the life-changing transformation from death to life, you can do that right now.

 

I also believe that people should search for the truth. I also believe, that the truth will set people free.

 

But according to my experience (and I have been a Christian for 30 years before I finally left the fold) there is absolutely no truth to be found in Christianity. The so called "life-changing transformation from death to life" is a big illusion.

 

I can only hope for you to wake up, find the truth and be set free from the this evil Christian religion.

[Savedbyfaith]

(1) Ye said ye'd show me the promises, the "Good Stuff" in the Psalms. I'm waiting still;

(2) You harp on the avoidance of burning in hell as the objective of Salvation. I see little from you on the Supreme Joy of being in God's Big Steamin' Holy Presence. Does this mean that God's Presence, on its own, is not sufficiently compelling and thus He must use coercion to gain followers?

 

[sBF] I'm sorry, Priapus. I hadn't realized you wanted to see some of God's promises in the book of Psalms. Well, let's start with Ps. 2:12 where it shows that those who love the Lord Jesus will be blessed. To be blessed means to be happy in the Lord through the graces of his love, joy and peace. We are not able to generate these within ourselves because they come with the new birth. One of the great promises of scripture is this new birth which results from repentance and faith in Christ.

 

The promise of Ps. 3:3 is that God is my shield, my glory and the one who lifts me up. We all need God's protection from evil influences. By his Spirit, he protects me from those things that are not pleasing to him, as he guides me into all truth.

 

The promise of Ps. 23:3 is that God is leading down the path or righteousness. As a believer, I have God's righteousness in Christ through the new birth. By following his word, God promises to instruct me in the path of righteousness which is part of the blessed life inChrist.

 

The promise of Ps. 32:7 is that God is my "hiding place." My life is hidden in him where there are "songs of deliverance" from trouble. God places his hedge of protection around me.

 

The promise of Ps. 34:7 is that God has special angels who encamp themselves around those who fear him and he delivers them from trouble. Fearing God is to hate evil and follow in the footsteps of his word, which is"light unto my path and a lamp unto my feet." (Ps. 119:105). God promises me that if I follow and apply his word to my life, my foot will not stumble. He guides and protects.

 

The promise of Ps. 37:29 is that I will inherit the earth and live in it forever. I will reign with Jesus Christ.

 

The promise of Ps. 56:3 says that trusting in God delivers me from fear. Whatever arrows the devil shoots my way, by turning to God and trusting in him, there is nothing to fear. No weapon formed against me will prosper (Isa. 54:17)

 

The promise of Ps. 73:23 24 is that God is continually with me and he holds me by my right hand. I will be received into glory when my days are done.

 

The promise of Ps. 89:24 is that God's faithfulness and mercy is with me and in his name I will be exalted. God is faithful, his mercies are new every morning. Great is his faithfulness to those who love him and are called according to his purpose.

 

The promise of Ps. 91:3-6 is that God will deliver me from the schemes and snares of my enemies and pestilence. Under his wings I take refuge knowing that God is faithful to his word and to all who trust in it.

 

The promise of Ps. 91:14-16 is that because I love him he will set me on high. I can call upon him and he will answer me. God will satisfy me with long life and he will then show me his salvation (Jesus).

 

These are a small fraction of the many promises in the Psalms. To summarize, I can say that in Christ I receive all the blessings of heaven and there is nothing he witholds from those who love him. I am his child and he will never leave me or forsake me. I am sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise for the day of redemption and to be his child for all eternity. (Eph. 4:30)

 

I hope you will take the time to read other Psalms and be blessed by them. Above all else, believe the promise of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. (John 3:16)

 

Thank you for pointing this out to me and you are right that I have been talking alot about hell, much of which is repsonse to the messages of others. Be blessed, stay happy and know that God loves you.

 

May you come to experience the many wonderful promises of God.

Savedbyfaith

[thomas]

Well, let's start with Ps. 2:12 where it shows that those who love the Lord Jesus will be blessed.

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Sorry, but you are wrong. The Psalms do not mention Jesus at all. Ps. 2 is about the blessings that comes from keeping the law.

[thomas]

Sorry, but you are wrong. The Psalms do not mention Jesus at all. Ps. 2 is about the blessings that comes from keeping the law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just looked Ps 2 up. Sorry it is not about the law (this is Ps 1). But it is certainly not about Jesus either.

[thomas]

The promise of Ps. 23:3 is that God is leading down the path or righteousness.  As a believer, I have God's righteousness in Christ through the new birth.  By following his word, God promises to instruct me in the path of righteousness which is part of the blessed life inChrist. 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ps 23:3 has nothing to do with the Christian idea of Jesus Christ.

[Checkmate]

Something funny just happened to me. As I was reading over the Psalms to check on SavedbyFaith's references, I felt like I was reading the Qu'ran!

 

The words suddenly leapt out at me as the most offensive, primitive HATE speech I had ever read! Psalm 2 REALLY pissed me off! ("Kiss the Son, lest he be angry"? Fuck the "Son"! And fuck the Psalmist, too! Don't threaten me, assmunch!)

 

I find it hard to believe that this book never struck me as offensive back when I was a Xian.

 

Go figure.

[thomas]

True Thomas.  Don't you love how, not only does Christianity discard the OT Laws, but yet has the audacity to claim the promises in the OT that were meant for the Israelites and apply it to themselves?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure, I just looooove it. When it comes to manipulation, Christianity is a masterpiece.

 

They teach their followers not to lie, but the religion itself is build upon lies and half truths.

 

When I did study some theology, I read something interesting about the Church father Augustin. He had an idea about "gold from Egypt". You know, many elements in Christainity are taken from foreign sources, for example Christian preaching techniques are taken from the ancient Greek ideas about rhetorics.

 

But Augustin defended it, by talking about "gold form Egypt". His reasoning was, that all truths is God's truth, and no matter what source the truth comes from (as long as it is truth), it can be taken into Christianity and made to become Christian truth. Such truth is like the gold, that the people of Egypt gave the Jews when they left.

[Savedbyfaith]

 

I also believe that people should search for the truth. I also believe, that the truth will set people free.But according to my experience (and I have been a Christian for 30 years before I finally left the fold) there is absolutely no truth to be found in Christianity. The so called "life-changing transformation from death to life" is a big illusion.

 

 

[sBF] As I told Thankful when I first joined this forum, I don't believe it is possible for someone to lose his or her salvation (Christianity). Jesus said that all the Father has given him, he has lost none (John 6:39, 10:28,29). If you were a Christian, then God gave you to Jesus. How could Jesus lose you? I respectfully say that you could not have experienced the new birth. Had you, Jesus would never let you go: "I will never leace you or forsake you." (Heb. 13:5). I guess this gets under the skin of ex-christians, but I onlyask what they think Jesus ment in John 6:39 and 10:28,29. Let's talk about these verses, OK?

[Savedbyfaith]

 

Get yourself right with biblegod by ridding yourself from Christianity and becoming Jewish, you are in unrepentant sin.

 

[sBF] Can't do it sweetheart. "All the Father has given me, I lost none." :-)

[thomas]

I respectfully say that you could not have experienced the new birth.  Had you, Jesus would never let you go: "I will never leace you or forsake you." (Heb. 13:5).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sure, either I am wrong, the bible is wrong, or your interpretation of the bible is wrong.

 

Now you are in a situation, where the information presented to you does not fit into your already established worldview. It is certainly not easy. So you can either dismiss me as an idiot, or you can get your worldview challenged.

 

The last option it not easy, but it is fruitful. And then of course, you can ask me further questions, before you decide.

 

 

I guess this gets under the skin of ex-christians, but I onlyask what they think Jesus ment in John 6:39 and 10:28,29.  Let's talk about these verses, OK?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is a general idea in the NT that those who leave the faith weren't real Christians to begin with. It's the not a real Scotsman argument.

 

But right since the beginning of Christanity, there have been people leaving. So if we aren't taken from Jesus, the he must have throm us away, or......????

 

Well, I guess it is up to you to come to your own conclusion. But feel free to ask questions. (I am going to hit the hay now, but I can answer tomorrow)

[Ouroboros]

 

EVERY SINGLE argument that you have given us on "why" we should yet AGAIN believe in Jesus, I PUT BACK ON YOU in regards to Allah.

 

[sBF] Allah is not God. God has a Son whose name is Jesus Christ. I have asked many times for your understanding of John 6:39, 10:28,29 and 18:9. How about now :-)

 

You forgot John 6:40

Joh 6:40  And this is the will of the One sending Me, that everyone seeing the Son and believing into Him should have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Did you notice my highlight? Have you SEEN Jesus?

 

So Jesus never lost Judas? (I almost wrote Yoda there... Hehe.)

Joh 18:9  That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

[Ouroboros]

 

Heh? You said wha'? Hehe! You did! HEHEHE! HAHAHAHAHAHA! EXACTLY! WE DON'T BELIEVE IT'S REAL!!!

 

[sBF] Neither did the rich man until he died. (Luke 16:23,24). Again, I urge you to repent and save yourself.

 

Didn't you notice that this man had a loving heart and still was in Hell:

Luk 16:27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

Luk 16:28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

He cared for his family. This man was not incapable of loving, and yet he gets punished because he was rich and uncaring. But still in his infinite pain, he didn't think of himself, but wanted his family to be saved. That was a very sweet thought of him, don't you think?

[Savedbyfaith]

.

 

Hey, SBF, I'm kind of disappointed, you left out the blessing in salm 137:9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and ©dashes your little ones Against the rock. I've never heard that one in a Sunday sermon. Oops, my bad, this is a blessing for Israelites who smash the little ones of the Babylonians.

 

[sBF] Well, this doesn't exactly fall into the promises which I was sharing with Priapus. But thanks for sharing it. What is happening here is an imprecation of retaliation against the Edomites for their atrocious crimes against Jerusalem (Jer. 49:7-11, Ezek. 35:1-15, Amos 1:11,12). Happy are those who repay them by dashing their children against the rocks. Whether it had God's blessings written on it or not, happy were they who took revenge. Might just call this the law of sowing and reaping.

[Savedbyfaith]

[sBF] Neither did the rich man until he died. (Luke 16:23,24). Again, I urge you to repent and save yourself.

 

Didn't you notice that this man had a loving heart and still was in Hell: He cared for his family. This man was not incapable of loving, and yet he gets punished because he was rich and uncaring.

 

[sBF] Once again demonstrating that loving family, good works works, righteousness, morality, etc. can't save a person. Among all these things that the man may have been, he was still a sinner: "There is no one who contunually does what is right and never sins." (Eccl. 7:20). Don't you see it? Sin is the problem, not a lack of human goodness, kindness, lovingness, etc. No one can be all these things and not sin against God. If this man was so loving, why didn't he "love his neighbor" and help the beggar get on his feet? Even the wicked care for and love their families. I'll bet that even Osama bin Laden loves his brothers and sisters. On second thought........:-)

 

But still in his infinite pain, he didn't think of himself, but wanted his family to be saved. That was a very sweet thought of him, don't you think?

 

[sBF] Had he loved the Lord as much as he did his family, he wouldn't be where he is.

[Ouroboros]

[sBF]  Allah is not God.  God has a Son whose name is Jesus Christ.  I have asked many times for your understanding of John 6:39, 10:28,29 and 18:9.  How about now :-)

 

You missed her point.

 

[sBF] I didn't miss her point, I was only showing that God has a Son, therefore Allah can't be God. Islam doesn't believe that.

But God can't have a son. Didn't you know? God is not even male, he's female, so how can God impregnate a woman? Lesbian sex and invitro?

 

You argue for god, Muslims argue for Allah.  You argue for your book, they argue for theirs.  You both use similar logic to justify your belief in the "true" god.  You both think that yours is the correct book.  Why are you right and they wrong?

 

[sBF] For most, their death will reveal which one is right.

Exactly! And you are gambling based on a old an faulty guide to play poker! The tricks in the cheat-book you have doesn't work anymore, since the house have changed their rules. Get an updated version of faith and you have a better chance!

 

You can't say because the bible told me so, they and we don't believe the bible.

 

[sBF] I can say it, but that won't convince you. Again, your death will reveal which one was right.

And your death will reveal if you were wrong! Happy dying!

 

 

They can just say that the Koran told them so.  Indeed, the bible cannot logically vouch for its own validity.  If it can, then so can I.  Here: "I'm god."  I've done great and magnificent things.  I hate those I love with passion.  There. I said it, you must believe it.  Thankful argued that every peice of logic you use to justify your belief in god and in the bible can be applied equally to Muslims and the Koran.  If you have an exception to this rule, please present it.

 

 

[sBF] If hell is real, will you agree that one's death will reveal the truth about which one was right? When it comes to judgment, both agree that hell exists. The huge difference is that they differ on how to avoid it. If the Quran is right, works will save; If the Bible, faith in Christ. The one who ends up in hell will know that his religion was not the right one.

IF Hell is real. You base you faith on an assumption someone else made more than 2000 years ago.

[Ouroboros]

 

Once more... It makes no mention that the rich man was sent to hell for not believing.

 

[sBF] Jesus said, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believe in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:18) Obviously, the rich man did not believe.

Obviously the story didn't say that he didn't believe, you're making an assumption that's not in context of the story. I thought you would be more careful about context when quoting the Bible!

 

 

It makes it quite clear that he was sent to hell because he was rich!

 

[sBF] Gosh, I hope you're not rich :-)

Gosh, I hope that YOU are not rich! Since the man was punished for being rich and not giving to the poor.

 

 

Luk 16:19  And there was a certain rich man; and he was accustomed to don a purple robe and fine linen, making merry in luxury day by day.

Luk 16:20  And there was a certain poor one named Lazarus who had been laid at his doorway, having been ulcerated,

Luk 16:21  and longing to be filled from the crumbs that were falling from the table of the rich one. But coming, even the dogs licked his sores.

[Ouroboros]

Why is it that I, an Atheist, know more about what the Bible says that you, a Christian?

 

[sBF] lmao (laughing my apples off)

I hope it's not the fruit of knowledge... In which case you must have lost them earlier...

 

 

Could it be because I've actually read it while you just have it spoonfed to you...

 

[sBF] Still laughing

 

Whatever... you are doing nothing more now than trying to scare us into believing, (Pascals Wager) and that kind of tactic is nothing more that terrorism.

 

[sBF] If that's what it takes, then praise God

Allah Ahkbar!

 

 

 

[sBF]  Winner in Christ.  You can too if you will stop all this foolishness and repent 

Winner in leaving Christianity. I'm saved from the slavery of religion, and I feel so liberated and exhalerated!