Definition of Sin

[Vigile]

Well, he did apologise for being a dunce... It is starting to get boring. When they start on the "turn or burn" threats, you know they've run out of reasoning and are trying emotional terrorism...

 

[sBF] You know where to find me if you want to be saved :-)

 

 

Holy Christ! Now your Jesus!???

[Mythra]

savedbyfear:

Here is a math equation for you to try and figure out: Justus of Tiberias + Flavius Josephus + Philo of Alexandria + 65 miracles = ? Ok Ok, I'll tell ya. It equals 0 Jesus.

[sBF] I can see math was not your best subject :-)

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Is it just me, or is there a conspicuous lack of substantive dialog coming from savedbyfear? I'm thinking the guy needs mental help.

[crazy-tiger]

Once more... It makes no mention that the rich man was sent to hell for not believing.

 

[sBF] Jesus said, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believe in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:18) Obviously, the rich man did not believe.

Luke 16:25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

 

It's amazingly clear that that the rich man is being punished simply because he was rich

It makes it quite clear that he was sent to hell because he was rich!

[sBF]  Gosh, I hope you're not rich :-)

To a begger, I'm a rich man. That means God's gonna make me fry...

Why is it that I, an Atheist, know more about what the Bible says that you, a Christian?

[sBF] lmao (laughing my apples off)

Could it be because I've actually read it while you just have it spoonfed to you...

[sBF]  Still laughing 

Denial is a terrible thing... Unfortunately, your lack of knowledge about your own holy book is showing.

Whatever... you are doing nothing more now than trying to scare us into believing, (Pascals Wager) and that kind of tactic is nothing more that terrorism.

[sBF] If that's what it takes, then praise God

So you say that terrorism is a good thing?

 

I really hope you don't say that to anyone who's lost someone to a terrorist attack. You might not survive it. (and if you did, you might wish you hadn't survived it)

[sBF] Winner in Christ. You can too if you will stop all this foolishness and repent

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You're right... I should stop the foolishness of trying to reason with you, as you have made the decision to forego any form of reason and willingly become blind, deaf and dumb.

 

And I do repent... since I feel regret that I've spent my time and energy trying to reason with someone like you.

[Mythra]

Or, maybe he's, like, 11 years old.

[crazy-tiger]

Or, maybe he's, like, 11 years old.

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I wouldn't even put him at that age. My nephew can do better than that, and he's not even old enough for school...

[Savedbyfaith]

[sBF] Not when it comes to being right with him.

 

Oh? Depends on which sect you ask. Depends on which verse you read.

 

[sBF] How much clearer could it be? "For by grace are you saved through faith (in Christ); and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, less any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8,9)

 

"He saved us not because of righteous things we have done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

Law can't save anyone. Can you show me one place in the Bible where it says law saved anyone?

 

I won't get into a debate over the differences between various groups of "true believers" though. It has been done to death on this site and I'm not patient enough to dig back through the bible to argue my case, so I'll let it go.

 

[sBF] It is true that believers do have different understandings about some things in scripture, like the rapture, when it happens. But that is a non-essential for eternal life and living a blessed life in Christ.

[Vigile]

[sBF] Not when it comes to being right with him.

 

Oh? Depends on which sect you ask. Depends on which verse you read.

 

[sBF] How much clearer could it be? "For by grace are you saved through faith (in Christ); and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, less any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8,9)

 

"He saved us not because of righteous things we have done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

Law can't save anyone. Can you show me one place in the Bible where it says law saved anyone?

 

I won't get into a debate over the differences between various groups of "true believers" though. It has been done to death on this site and I'm not patient enough to dig back through the bible to argue my case, so I'll let it go.

 

[sBF] It is true that believers do have different understandings about some things in scripture, like the rapture, when it happens. But that is a non-essential for eternal life and living a blessed life in Christ.

 

Like I said, I have no interest in going tit for tat with scripture. I did enough of that when I was a "true" believer and it always left me with a headache and with the urge to strangle someone. The bible means nothing to me today so I don't care what it says. Prove to me why its true and we can talk.

[thomas]

Law can't save anyone.  Can you show me one place in the Bible where it says law saved anyone?  

 

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I do no think you haved defined what you mean by being saved. But there are plenty of verses in the christian OT that talk about the great benefit of keeping the law.

 

Don't you know what is in the Bible?

Are you blinded by faith?

[Savedbyfaith]

 

It's amazingly clear that that the rich man is being punished simply because he was richTo a begger, I'm a rich man.

 

[sBF] Would you mind showing me where it says that?

[Mythra]

Dude just has to keep quoting scripture to people who don't believe in it.

 

savedbyfear: since you do swallow the enchilada, why not swallow it all? here's one for ya.

 

James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

[BuddhistCommunist]

SavedbyFaith obviously doesn't know much about what christianity really is because hes still caught in their propaganda. The only reason christianity is the size it is today is because the Roman empire and then Colonial Europe adopted it. I back up my arguments with history my friend and you back yours up with blind faith and false interpretation. And how can i say i know this... Because I did the exact same thing your doing a few years ago on ki-teachings.net, I became a buddhist a year and a half later. Also there is much more evidence to back up Buddhism as being real than anything in christianity. Buddhists don't have a God, leave the creation ideas up to scientists, and worry about their own lives and ridding the suffering of others when they ask it. And best of all! Buddhists don't force their beliefs on anyone(no true buddhist anyway) they only offer assistance when its asked of them. So you came with the intention of converting, I came with the intention of Sharing. I love Athiests and others of a similiar nature. I also love Pagans and Wiccans. And Why?! because weve all been persecuted by christians, we all have something beautiful to share with each other and our beliefs. You use scare tactics and a book that you truly no nothing of its origin... oh and you know most of us are not going to listen to your closemindedness so take your lords advice."do not cast your pearls before swine".

bye bye now

[Savedbyfaith]

I do not think you haved defined what you mean by being saved.

 

[sBF] Sins forgiven and onward to heaven :-)

 

But there are plenty of verses in the chhristian OT that talks about the great benefit of keeping the law.

 

[sBF] Indeed there are, but not one that says law will save anyone, "For through the law comes the knowledge of sin." (Rom. 3:20) This may surprise you, but the law actually arouses the desire to break it (Rom. 7:5,8).

 

Don't you know what is in the Bible?

 

[sBF] Stick around and I will teach you some things :-)

[Mythra]

Or, in the supposed words of the alleged Jesus:

 

Unless a man give up all that he has, he cannot be my disciple.

 

oops. looks like savedbyfear has a computer.

 

Pretty clear to me that he cannot be a disciple.

[thomas]

[sBF]  Sins forgiven and onward to heaven :-)

 

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In (some parts of) OT you could have your sins forgiven by sacrificing an animal.

[thomas]

[sBF] Stick around and I will teach you some things :-)

 

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I am still here, but you have left.

[Mythra]

Here is what savedbyfear's posts are like

 

Post 1: turn or burn

 

Post 2: you'll burn if you don't turn

 

Post 3: God loves you. turn or burn

 

Post 4: I am so blessed. burn if you don't turn

 

Post 5: by faith alone. turn or burn

 

Post 6: let me teach you. burn if you don't turn

 

Post 7: I'll pray for you. turn or burn.

 

saved: the only thing burning are your ears.

[crazy-tiger]

It's amazingly clear that that the rich man is being punished simply because he was rich

 

[sBF] Would you mind showing me where it says that?

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Ho hum...

Luke 16:19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

 

    25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

It says nothing about being punished for not believing, but makes it abundently clear that that he's getting punished for being rich.

 

This is what happens when you read it in context... You find out what it means. What you have done is rip two verses out of the context and force a different meaning onto them.

That is re-writing the Bible and is a surefire way to get a one-way ticket to hell.

 

 

Once more, I find myself in the strange position of defending the Bible from a Christian... Ironic, isn't it?

[Mythra]

crazy t:

 

I had a feeling you were gonna do that. Rich man goes to hell because he already received the good things here in this life.

 

Lazarus goes to heaven because he was poor.

 

Translation: give all your shit to the church and you will be blessed.

 

Our christian appears to be someone who was saved last week.

 

He'll either ignore your post or try to do an end-run around it.

[Guest Priapus]

[sBF] You know where to find me if you want to be saved :-)

 

 

[sBF] Stick around and I will teach you some things :-)

 

 

(1) Ye said ye'd show me the promises, the "Good Stuff" in the Psalms. I'm waiting still;

 

 

(2) You harp on the avoidance of burning in hell as the objective of Salvation. I see little from you on the Supreme Joy of being in God's Big Steamin' Holy Presence. Does this mean that God's Presence, on its own, is not sufficiently compelling and thus He must use coercion to gain followers?

[Saviourmachine]

Hi SBF. Moslims don't get salvation through good works. It's by good works and faith both. Or even better, by the five pillars. And even than it's by Allah's grace.

 

Despite the fact that Islam emphasizes that faith, righteous deeds and Allah's Grace are needed for salvation, many Muslims have completely forgotten about righteous deeds. "If any do deeds of righteousness be they male or female and have faith they will enter heaven and not the least injustice will be done to them." Q4:124. Allah says in Q29:45 that solat (five daily prayer) is a form of remembrance of Him, also it is to prevent us from shameful deeds. Let us examine ourselves. Is our solat doing these purposes in our life? Can someone who is conscious of Allah engages in sin again and again? Let us be careful, we should not reduce our solat and other acts of worship to mere routine activities rather we should be conscious of the goals of  these acts of worship. Allah warns us in Q107:4-7. (Source)

Do you know many muslims? About doubt in Islam.

 

Why do you think that we, x-xians, left?

The intellectual–and thereby the rational–foundation of Islam results in the average Muslim having a curious tendency to believe that non-Muslims either know that Islam is the truth and reject it out of pure obstinacy, or else are simply ignorant of it and can be converted by elementary explanations; that anyone should be able to oppose Islam with a good conscience quite exceeds the Muslims’ power of imagination, precisely because Islam coincides in his mind with the irresistible logic of things[2].

Fill in xian and xianity. (Source: Secular Islam).

 

Or take this short story and other stories on that website:

Thank God, such hardships caused me to understand the importance of faith in my life.

...

Then suddenly I listened to the Qur'anic words that came from a distance, as if I was hearing them for the first time: [some verse].

...

I remembered that Allah, the Almighty never leaves His faithful believers in trouble.

...

Oh God, I do love Thee, the same as I fear Thee... Oh God, grant me Your mercy and forgiveness, deprive me not of Your pleasure...Oh Mighty God, how happy I am to be released of the chains and concerns of this world. I am happy to becoming free of its evils and sins. Oh God, grant those who loved me patience and double their reward. Oh God, keep them on the right path, so that they can continue their good deeds through which I may survive...Oh God, grant me mercy... surely Thou art the most liberal Giver….(Aale-Imran, 8)

What's the difference with xianity? I'd like to give you some homework, namely to convert a few muslims to xianity. Take a very careful look to their arguments. How they defend their scriptures, what emotions they experience (conversion, pious fear, god's mercy), what reasons they have to believe in their particular religion and afterlife, how doubt and faith function, how they regard xian and Jewish scriptures, how they defend the persons and their circumstances of the early islamic community, observe them denying each other paths, ask them about their 'real' contact with god.

 

That would easify being honest in xian apologetics. I'm sure.

[Mythra]

savedbyfear:

 

I'm going to cross my fingers for you, that someday you'll be able to escape the fear, manipulation, fraud, and coercion that have you wrapped so tightly within their grasp.

 

There is freedom to be found. And, life doesn't end. Actually, it goes on quite nicely.

 

If you want, you can PM me and I'll help you get out.

[Vixentrox]

For God so loved (the smell of burning souls and cries of anguish) that he gave his only begotten (through rape of a young Hebrew woman) Son, that whoever belives (blindly and abjectly) in Him shall not perish (spirtually of course..if your in the right sect, your body still worm food) but have eternal (spiritual) life (kissing God's ass forever).

[Savedbyfaith]

savedbyfear:

 

There is freedom to be found. And, life doesn't end. Actually, it goes on quite nicely.

 

[sBF] "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32) If you haven't experienced the life-changing transformation from death to life, you can do that right now.

 

Just tell God you are willing to repent of your sins and that you believe Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead. Receive him by faith and He will save you.

[Guest Priapus]

Just tell God you are willing to repent of your sins and that you believe Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead.  Receive him by faith and He will save you.

 

 

 

Then what? Saved. What's that look like? How do I know if I'm saved or not? How do I know if I did it right? For what should I look as an indication?

 

 

I spent 12 years praying to God, confessing sin, memorizing scripture, worshipping privately and in groups, inviting the Holy Spirit to search and cleanse and guide me and in all that time I heard/felt/saw precisely nothing.

 

 

Did I do something wrong?

[Checkmate]

Then what? Saved. What's that look like? How do I know if I'm saved or not? How do I know if I did it right? For what should I look as an indication?

I spent 12 years praying to God, confessing sin, memorizing scripture, worshipping privately and in groups, inviting the Holy Spirit to search and cleanse and guide me and in all that time I heard/felt/saw precisely nothing.

Did I do something wrong?

 

 

"Preach it, Rev!" (Oops! Sorry, old habits die hard I guess.)

 

Yeah, SBF. "Then what?" I did that schtick, too. So did EVERY SINGLE EX-C person here. We ALL confessed sin, got baptized, believed by faith, etc., etc.

 

WTF?!? WHY DIDN'T YOUR GOD SHOW UP AND KEEP US FROM FALLING AWAY?

 

I can honestly say for myself that I DESPERATELY wanted to believe and remain "saved". But all I got out of this religion was this dumb T-shirt! "The heavens were brass" as they say.

 

Why doesn't YOUR God deliver the goods? And WHY are YOU here trying to blame US for failing at this?

 

OK. I'm done ranting. Please, continue to hop, skip and jump your way around the answers (aka The TRUTH).