Why Do You Remain A Christian?

[★ Citsonga ★]

Dear Cits, yes, I did watch the video (well, most of it) and if you would like, I will go point by point with you. I know where the guy is coming from. Before I accepted Christ for who He is, I debated every pastor that came to the door. I already know most of the questions first hand, because I use to be the one asking. Quite often, the pastors were not able to give me very good answers, or any at all.

 

Well, I used to be in your shoes. In fact, most of what I've seen you say has been a mirror image of my former beliefs. So I know where you're coming from, and I know just how flawed your perspective is (I used to hold it myself).

 

By the way, let me mention that the video gets stronger as it goes on and the points mount up. If you didn't watch the whole thing, you missed some of the most important stuff.

 

First, how is your daughter doing now? Did she come home with you?

 

It's a long story, and hopefully she's on the mend, but yes she was able to come home.

 

Now concerning the site you copied all of that from

 

I did not copy it from a site. Like I said in the post, it was part of a lengthy letter that I wrote to a friend a few years back. I took a close look at that stuff and wrote up my conclusions. Just because you've done a lot of copying and pasting in this thread doesn't mean that we all do it.

 

that is allot of information to go through all at one time.

 

Indeed it is a lot. Most people don't even bother looking into stuff like that.

[the stranger]

I did not copy it from a site. Like I said in the post, it was part of a lengthy letter that I wrote to a friend a few years back. I took a close look at that stuff and wrote up my conclusions. Just because you've done a lot of copying and pasting in this thread doesn't mean that we all do it.

 

You got me buddy, I missed that.

 

Well, I used to be in your shoes. In fact, most of what I've seen you say has been a mirror image of my former beliefs. So I know where you're coming from, and I know just how flawed your perspective is (I used to hold it myself).

 

By the way, let me mention that the video gets stronger as it goes on and the points mount up. If you didn't watch the whole thing, you missed some of the most important stuff.

 

Based on this, let me go back and I will watch the video in its entirety.

 

It's a long story, and hopefully she's on the mend, but yes she was able to come home.

 

That is good to hear.

 

Indeed it is a lot. Most people don't even bother looking into stuff like that.

 

 

Based on the fact that it is your own work, it does give me more motivation to go back a little later and read it in full. It may take a little while though, but I will get there my friend.

 

 

I will talk with ya in a little bit.

[Thumbelina]

I don't think I would feel all self-congratulatory that people run to one's particular deity figure when they are frightened of death. It doesn't speak all that well for that god's appeal that it require fear to motivate people to devotion. Does it? "Ooh look! Another convert to our god, running for their lives from the grim reaper".

 

Apparently the message of love in their message isn't all that strong, and fear is much more persuasive? *sigh* That's really sad you guys. How rewarding is love at the end of fear anyway? But I suppose, you'll take where you can get it?

 

The real message of the Gospel for you then is self-preservation; self interest? I could go on and on about how immature this is.

 

 

 

The POINT I was trying to make is that when the scoffers are feeling good or even coping (like Stephen Hawking) they think they don't NEED God but when death faces them square in the face, they know exactly Who to call. I knew someone and had no idea that he was atheist until after he died; I just thought he was a secularist. When he was dying the person who was with him and who loved him like a father, said that he cried out to God sooooooo much; when I was told this I was like "I knew it! oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeaaaah!"

 

The bible says that death is an enemy, we weren't created to die and that is why people fear death.

 

 

Selfish people may come to God out of self-preservation but when they get to know Him they will love Him.

God is lovely, people can be scary There won't be anyone in heaven that will be there because they are afraid of God.

[Ouroboros]

The POINT I was trying to make is that when the scoffers are feeling good or even coping (like Stephen Hawking) they think they don't NEED God but when death faces them square in the face, they know exactly Who to call.

Again, not me. I was almost killed, and I didn't.

 

I knew someone and had no idea that he was atheist until after he died; I just thought he was a secularist. When he was dying the person who was with him and who loved him like a father, said that he cried out to God sooooooo much; when I was told this I was like "I knew it! oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeaaaah!"

So one instance, one person, makes all other people the same way? You have one experience and that defines humanity?

 

The bible says that death is an enemy, we weren't created to die and that is why people fear death.

I don't fear death. I fear pain before death, and the thought of my family to be without me saddens me, but I feel calm about death.

 

Perhaps you fear death and that's why you believe, and then you are projecting your fear and belief unto other people?

 

Selfish people may come to God out of self-preservation but when they get to know Him they will love Him.

God is lovely, people can be scary There won't be anyone in heaven that will be there because they are afraid of God.

And yet that's what you're projecting. Believe in God... or else...

 

Skip the "or else" part, or you will create Christians who believe out of fear.

[Thumbelina]

You know if that dude gets in some dire straits he won't call out "Big bang save me!" or "My brain help me!" and he won't be calling out to a monkey's uncle either; like Peter, he'll say " Lord save me!"

Funny thing.

 

I've been in dire straits (almost killed at least once, and the other time I got injured, but it could have been worse), and in none of these cases did I call Jesus or God. My thoughts didn't go to God or afterlife or sins or such at all. Seriously.

 

What I did feel was peace, however, and I did feel a bit sad for my family if I would have to check out from this life, but did I think about Jesus? Nope. Not one second. Not even a fraction of a microsecond. I thought about it later though. I thought about why I didn't think about Jesus or God or called his name. And I could only conclude that I'm not afraid of dying anymore.

 

So how do you explain that in your little narrow worldview?

 

By beholding we become changed and it is important for the Christian to meditate on God's word daily. Even the hymn "Come Thou Fount Of Every Blessing" says we are "prone to wander; prone to leave the God I love". God loves us, we are the apple of His eye please remember that

So that's that answer to all the charges against your obviously evil God (based on the document you call The Bible)?

 

 

 

Re: Posts 738-740

 

I hope you gentlemen can look at this objectively?

 

I almost drowned once, I was not a Christian then but I believed in God. When it happened there was no time to do anything but gasp for air, I did not call out to God either but maybe subconsciously I did, who knows? (God does). Maybe God allowed me to survive because He knew I would come to Him later?

 

According to the Bible what you were was deceived (See Jer. 17:9)

God is not evil, evil people perceive Him as evil. God is love and His sheep KNOW this; perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18) so God's followers won't be afraid of Him once they get to know Him.

[Ouroboros]

Re: Posts 738-740

 

I hope you gentlemen can look at this objectively?

 

I almost drowned once, I was not a Christian then but I believed in God.

You already believed in God.

 

When it happened there was no time to do anything but gasp for air, I did not call out to God either but maybe subconsciously I did, who knows? (God does). Maybe God allowed me to survive because He knew I would come to Him later?

But you didn't call out to Jesus.

 

I was two inches from having my head crushed by an SUV. I had time to call when I fell on the ground. I had time to call after. But I didn't. I didn't even think about it. I didn't think about God, afterlife, or Jesus at all.

 

(Actually, the only thing I said while falling was, "Oh, shit." I guess that means I called to the shit-god.)

 

Not until later did I think about how interesting it was that I didn't call out to a fictitious friend in the 11th dimension. I didn't have to, because I feel peaceful about death. What I fear is any kind of pain or suffering before death, but that's it. And I love life, so I want to keep on experiencing what I have here. Life is precious, so dying is sad, but not scary.

 

According to the Bible what you were was deceived (See Jer. 17:9)

God is not evil, evil people perceive Him as evil. God is love and His sheep KNOW this; perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18) so God's followers won't be afraid of Him once they get to know Him.

God wants people to go to Hell. He could have prevented the fall, and he could have made a lot better presence of himself in the world to prove to everyone that he exists, but he choose to not to... or the simpler answer is that he doesn't even exist. Admit it, you know it deep down, but you're afraid.

[kittypaws]

The POINT I was trying to make is that when the scoffers are feeling good or even coping (like Stephen Hawking) they think they don't NEED God but when death faces them square in the face, they know exactly Who to call.

 

Very frightened people will clutch at any straw but that doesn't mean that the straw will actually save them. Most Western atheists have grown up in a Christian environment, and many have been Christians. It's quite understandable that when facing death one will seek comfort from anything, and Christianity is a familiar straw to clutch.

[Thumbelina]

You know if that dude gets in some dire straits he won't call out "Big bang save me!" or "My brain help me!" and he won't be calling out to a monkey's uncle either; like Peter, he'll say " Lord save me!"

What I did feel was peace, however, and I did feel a bit sad for my family if I would have to check out from this life, but did I think about Jesus? Nope. Not one second. Not even a fraction of a microsecond. I thought about it later though. I thought about why I didn't think about Jesus or God or called his name. And I could only conclude that I'm not afraid of dying anymore.

 

So how do you explain that in your little narrow worldview?

Let me take a stab at it! The Devil. The Devil stole Jesus from you and that's why didn't think of him. The Devil blinded you.

 

 

See how easy that was when your parameters are very limited?

 

 

 

 

 

The devil cannot steal God's children from Him. John 10:28,29 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand." Dare I say, "man" is a generic term and one could put demon in there too.

 

Also, no one can cry "The devil made me do it!" because --- "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." They have to be WILLING to sin; they were ALREADY open to or have a proclivity to the particular sin.

[Ouroboros]

Thumbelina,

 

You make no sense. You're not answering the questions. I'm not sure you even understand what people are telling you or asking you here.

[Phanta]

I almost drowned once, I was not a Christian then but I believed in God. When it happened there was no time to do anything but gasp for air, I did not call out to God either but maybe subconsciously I did, who knows? (God does). Maybe God allowed me to survive because He knew I would come to Him later?

 

If you didn't, that would negate your assertion that all people call out to God when faced with death.

 

Your brain is exhibiting just how an amazing a machine it is, to come up with the solution of maybe subconsciously to protect you from the evidence against the neat, orderly world you're positing.

 

Phanta

[Antlerman]

I don't think I would feel all self-congratulatory that people run to one's particular deity figure when they are frightened of death. It doesn't speak all that well for that god's appeal that it require fear to motivate people to devotion. Does it? "Ooh look! Another convert to our god, running for their lives from the grim reaper".

 

Apparently the message of love in their message isn't all that strong, and fear is much more persuasive? *sigh* That's really sad you guys. How rewarding is love at the end of fear anyway? But I suppose, you'll take where you can get it?

 

The real message of the Gospel for you then is self-preservation; self interest? I could go on and on about how immature this is.

 

 

 

The POINT I was trying to make is that when the scoffers are feeling good or even coping (like Stephen Hawking) they think they don't NEED God but when death faces them square in the face, they know exactly Who to call.

 

I knew someone and had no idea that he was atheist until after he died; I just thought he was a secularist. When he was dying the person who was with him and who loved him like a father, said that he cried out to God sooooooo much; when I was told this I was like "I knew it! oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeaaaah!"

Oh that.. yes, strong grown men laying dying on the battle field often cry out to their mommies too. That we are programmed culturally with symbols such as a rescuing deity, in moments of great duress, these things surface to the mind for the desperate to reach out towards. Mommy, Daddy, Sky God, Mother Mary, etc.

 

Now here's something for you to ponder. That you would celebrate a dying man who lived his life as an atheist on his death suddenly becoming panicked and calling out to a cultural symbol, is itself quite sad. It does fit what I said above about "taking it where you can get it". It's a meaningless gesture to support your beliefs on his part as it was done under duress. . Yet his whole life of reasoned, and conscious choice in a right mind saw no value for himself in it enough that it would appeal.

 

I stand by what I say, and you should seriously look inside yourself as to why you think a thing like this is positive. You sound like you have a void of Wisdom and Compassion within you. That, that, speaks far more about your living beliefs than any death-bed conversion of a man under duress. Wouldn't you have to agree?

 

 

The bible says that death is an enemy, we weren't created to die and that is why people fear death.

And why you cling so desperately to the notion of life after death, and why you believe what you do.

 

I don't fear death.

 

Selfish people may come to God out of self-preservation but when they get to know Him they will love Him.

And they will be known by the fruits of such things like Wisdom and Compassion. You're still working on finding that love it seems.

 

God is lovely, people can be scary There won't be anyone in heaven that will be there because they are afraid of God.

Well, metaphorically speaking I'd have to agree. You can't fake Love by wearing your cloak of religiousness. Without Love, you are in hell.

[Ouroboros]

I almost drowned once, I was not a Christian then but I believed in God. When it happened there was no time to do anything but gasp for air, I did not call out to God either but maybe subconsciously I did, who knows? (God does). Maybe God allowed me to survive because He knew I would come to Him later?

 

If you didn't, that would negate your assertion that all people call out to God when faced with death.

 

Your brain is exhibiting just how an amazing a machine it is, to come up with the solution of maybe subconsciously to protect you from the evidence against the neat, orderly world you're positing.

 

Phanta

It shows how neat the religious mind re-construct events to fit their belief.

[Ouroboros]

Oh that.. yes, strong grown men laying dying on the battle field often cry out to their mommies too. That we are programmed culturally with symbols such as a rescuing deity, in moments of great duress, these things surface to the mind for the desperate to reach out towards. Mommy, Daddy, Sky God, Mother Mary, etc.

 

Now here's something for you to ponder. That you would celebrate a dying man who lived his life as an atheist on his death suddenly becoming panicked and calling out to a cultural symbol, is itself quite sad. It does fit what I said above about "taking it where you can get it". It's a meaningless gesture to support your beliefs on his part as it was done under duress. . Yet his whole life of reasoned, a conscious choice saw no value for himself in it enough that it would appeal.

 

I stand by what I say, and you should seriously look inside yourself as to why you think a thing like this is positive. You sound like you have a void of Wisdom and Compassion within you. That, that, speaks far more about your living beliefs than any death-bed conversion of a man under duress. Wouldn't you have to agree?

Very good point.

 

The death-bed conversion is an obvious conversion to belief under duress, fear driven, not reasoned. So even if Thumbelina would be right about death-bed conversions, it is just even worse for her "love" argued belief.

 

I don't fear death.

Yay! I'm not alone.

 

I was more afraid of death as a Christian. I wasn't sure if I believed right or had displeased God in any sense, so I had never a full rest about by future after death. I feared that I could be going to Hell without know it. I prayed, but never had peace.

 

But now I do have peace... weird.

[Thumbelina]

Hey Kathlene and Cistonga opened up a can of worms with this one. Kathlene, I must confess, it was the dude's picture that made me read the post but the tripe that was coming out of his mouth .... .

[Antlerman]

I don't fear death.

Yay! I'm not alone.

 

I was more afraid of death as a Christian. I wasn't sure if I believed right or had displeased God in any sense, so I had never a full rest about by future after death. I feared that I could be going to Hell without know it. I prayed, but never had peace.

 

But now I do have peace... weird.

I could talk at some length about this but I'll keep it brief (yeah, right, I can do that!). Of course I have a survival instinct that a healthy "fear" would kick in for the sake of survival. But that fear, is not "fear of death" as is meant in the way people generally mean it. That fear of death is a mind-realization of ones mortality, and what that "death" is is the fear of the death or end of that "self-image" we have of ourselves. It is then end of "me". That is an existential fear.

 

And so we create all sorts of substitutes for ourselves to mentally imagine ourselves surviving beyond our grave (our bodies we see as a symbolic representation of that mental image of "self"). And those creations can be anywhere from the accumulation of wealth and empire, monuments to ourselves, legacies, the urge to have a child when you're in you 60's, myths of heroism, and most obviously to all of us, belief in afterlifes, and the ultimate "resurrection of the dead" themselves! All of it, is driven by "fear of death", the death of the mental image of "self".

 

What releases us from that is in fact to die. We release ourselves from our desperate cling to hold onto that image of "self". We then literally become self-less, and find release. So.... when you say you have peace now, that is why. You're not holding on any more, just being Alive.

 

 

(that was brief, sort of?)

[Ouroboros]

You're not holding on any more, just being Alive.

All well said.

[Thumbelina]

 

I don't think I would feel all self-congratulatory that people run to one's particular deity figure when they are frightened of death. It doesn't speak all that well for that god's appeal that it require fear to motivate people to devotion. Does it? "Ooh look! Another convert to our god, running for their lives from the grim reaper".

 

Apparently the message of love in their message isn't all that strong, and fear is much more persuasive? *sigh* That's really sad you guys. How rewarding is love at the end of fear anyway? But I suppose, you'll take where you can get it?

 

The real message of the Gospel for you then is self-preservation; self interest? I could go on and on about how immature this is.

 

 

 

The POINT I was trying to make is that when the scoffers are feeling good or even coping (like Stephen Hawking) they think they don't NEED God but when death faces them square in the face, they know exactly Who to call.

 

I knew someone and had no idea that he was atheist until after he died; I just thought he was a secularist. When he was dying the person who was with him and who loved him like a father, said that he cried out to God sooooooo much; when I was told this I was like "I knew it! oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeaaaah!"

Oh that.. yes, strong grown men laying dying on the battle field often cry out to their mommies too. That we are programmed culturally with symbols such as a rescuing deity, in moments of great duress, these things surface to the mind for the desperate to reach out towards. Mommy, Daddy, Sky God, Mother Mary, etc.

 

Now here's something for you to ponder. That you would celebrate a dying man who lived his life as an atheist on his death suddenly becoming panicked and calling out to a cultural symbol, is itself quite sad. It does fit what I said above about "taking it where you can get it". It's a meaningless gesture to support your beliefs on his part as it was done under duress. . Yet his whole life of reasoned, and conscious choice in a right mind saw no value for himself in it enough that it would appeal.

 

I stand by what I say, and you should seriously look inside yourself as to why you think a thing like this is positive. You sound like you have a void of Wisdom and Compassion within you. That, that, speaks far more about your living beliefs than any death-bed conversion of a man under duress. Wouldn't you have to agree?

 

 

The bible says that death is an enemy, we weren't created to die and that is why people fear death.

And why you cling so desperately to the notion of life after death, and why you believe what you do.

 

I don't fear death.

 

Selfish people may come to God out of self-preservation but when they get to know Him they will love Him.

And they will be known by the fruits of such things like Wisdom and Compassion. You're still working on finding that love it seems.

 

God is lovely, people can be scary There won't be anyone in heaven that will be there because they are afraid of God.

Well, metaphorically speaking I'd have to agree. You can't fake Love by wearing your cloak of religiousness. Without Love, you are in hell.

 

Some atheists are gonna have death-bed conversions, like that thief on the cross. My question is why didn't he cry out to the tangible person who was there for him? He had been atheist for a very long time, he was in his nineties, I think.

 

Um, Mr., spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the bible is foolishness to the ungodly but to the believer Romans 8:18 says--

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

In other words, we are not to worry; God offers us peace in this life but we are slow in holding on to it.

 

I should have said people TEND to fear death. I don't fear death now either, I fear the PAIN!

 

God is still working on me but at least I am willing to let Him; He can work with that but people who believe in self-determination can be a pain in the tuckus, they block the Holy Spirit out which is WHY it may take a calamity for them to see they are not self-sufficient.

[Thumbelina]

I almost drowned once, I was not a Christian then but I believed in God. When it happened there was no time to do anything but gasp for air, I did not call out to God either but maybe subconsciously I did, who knows? (God does). Maybe God allowed me to survive because He knew I would come to Him later?

 

If you didn't, that would negate your assertion that all people call out to God when faced with death.

 

Your brain is exhibiting just how an amazing a machine it is, to come up with the solution of maybe subconsciously to protect you from the evidence against the neat, orderly world you're positing.

 

Phanta

 

Hey, quit putting words in my mouth! I did not say "all" people. The scoffer tends to think they are "god" by default so why are they calling out to God? They should call out to science or Dawkins or something like that. They inherently know that there is a God.

[Ouroboros]

Some atheists are gonna have death-bed conversions, like that thief on the cross. My question is why didn't he cry out to the tangible person who was there for him? He had been atheist for a very long time, he was in his nineties, I think.

Antlerman's point was that the person converted out of fear, not conviction. Death scared him so much that he converted. What kind of belief is that? Believe in God because you're afraid. That's what A-man meant with conversion under duress.

 

Um, Mr., spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the bible is foolishness to the ungodly but to the believer Romans 8:18 says--

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

In other words we are not to worry; God offers us peace in this life.

And the person who wrote that was not dead at the time he wrote it, so how would he know?

 

I should have said people TEND to fear death. I don't fear death now either, I fear the PAIN!

Like me then. So why do you assume things about people like me? Why are you putting lies into your own brain to justify your belief? Just accept that you don't know some things instead of assuming that you know me or other non-believers.

 

God is still working on me but at least I am willing to let Him;

The first thing God has to work on with you is your presumptuous attitude about other people. You don't get to tell other people who they are, what they are, or what they believe. If you do, it gives me (and other people) to do the same thing about you.

 

So here I go, you believe in God because you fear Hell. You only believe because you were forced to. So there, now I have made up my mind about you through an assumption, and whatever you say I will disregard, because it's easier just to make up stuff. (I'm just copying your behavior.)

 

He can work with that but people who believe in self-determination can be a pain in the tuckus, they block the Holy Spirit out which is WHY it may take a calamity for them to see they are not self-sufficient.

The only thing that got my family through all the hardships in the past was self-determination. We prayed a lot, really, super-much, or should I say super-duper-gianormous much, and no miracles. The only miracles came out of our own hands and our own dedication. 100%±0.

[Ouroboros]

Hey, quit putting words in my mouth!

So when you say that unbelievers will convert on their death-bed (which you have said at least two times in this thread), you are putting words in their mouths, and that's okay.

 

But when it happens to you, you get annoyed, don't you? Why?

 

What is the difference between you doing it to anyone of us, or anyone of us doing it to you?

 

Is it a special privilege that only Christians have? Only Christians can have presumptuous attitudes and put words in other people's mouths, but they can't?

 

I did not say "all" people. The scoffer tends to think they are "god" by default so why are they calling out to God?

You are putting words in the mouths of the scoffer. If you don't like when people do it to you, don't to that to scoffers.

 

They should call out to science or Dawkins or something like that.

That's your assumption and a reflection of your twisted worldview.

[Darklady]

I almost drowned once, I was not a Christian then but I believed in God. When it happened there was no time to do anything but gasp for air, I did not call out to God either but maybe subconsciously I did, who knows? (God does). Maybe God allowed me to survive because He knew I would come to Him later?

 

If you didn't, that would negate your assertion that all people call out to God when faced with death.

 

Your brain is exhibiting just how an amazing a machine it is, to come up with the solution of maybe subconsciously to protect you from the evidence against the neat, orderly world you're positing.

 

Phanta

 

Hey, quit putting words in my mouth! I did not say "all" people. The scoffer tends to think they are "god" by default so why are they calling out to God? They should call out to science or Dawkins or something like that. They inherently know that there is a God.

 

How arrogant can you get Thumblina, for one, calling us scoffers is insulting to the rational intelligent thought that people here have put into their belief systems. For that alone you have lost any respect you may have left here.

Saying that those that have out grown the childly fairy tale of god think they are god? Please read some of the stories here and you find that this is far from the truth. but then truth isn't something you can deal with, is it? If it was you would no longer follow the lies portrayed in the selection of writings know as the bible.

I know there is no god, and will not call out to it at anytime. Been there done that and it was as useless as tying to walk to the moon.

[Guest Spinoza]

You don't need church, you don't need religion, you don't need Priests, you don't need God.

 

Everything you need is WITHIN You.

 

[Thumbelina]

 

Some atheists are gonna have death-bed conversions, like that thief on the cross. My question is why didn't he cry out to the tangible person who was there for him? He had been atheist for a very long time, he was in his nineties, I think.

 

Antlerman's point was that the person converted out of fear, not conviction. Death scared him so much that he converted. What kind of belief is that? Believe in God because you're afraid. That's what A-man meant with conversion under duress.

 

 

Not necessarily, Judas admitted that he betrayed innocent blood but he was not converted and will most likely end up in hell. Judas hardened his heart and did not respond to the wooing of the Holy Spirit. Apparently the thief on the cross had been softening his heart but his situation gave him that final push to make a decision. Some death-bed conversions may not be genuine; only way to know who ends up saved is to make it to heaven! In my talks with some atheistic types I realized they don't really belief that there is no God, they are just frightened, angry and/or rebellious.

 

 

 

Um, Mr., spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the bible is foolishness to the ungodly but to the believer Romans 8:18 says--

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

In other words we are not to worry; God offers us peace in this life.

 

 

 

And the person who wrote that was not dead at the time he wrote it, so how would he know?

 

Sheesh, the Holy Spirit told him of course.

 

 

 

I should have said people TEND to fear death. I don't fear death now either, I fear the PAIN!

 

 

Like me then. So why do you assume things about people like me? Why are you putting lies into your own brain to justify your belief? Just accept that you don't know some things instead of assuming that you know me or other non-believers.

 

I'm just talking generally and about human nature. It is God who searches the heart. You seem like a nice fellow but it is God who knows what's wrong with you, why you can't believe in Him at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

God is still working on me but at least I am willing to let Him;

 

The first thing God has to work on with you is your presumptuous attitude about other people. You don't get to tell other people who they are, what they are, or what they believe. If you do, it gives me (and other people) to do the same thing about you.

 

 

I guess but as I said, I'm talking generally and I sometimes throw in a few specific attitudes to make my case. Again I say, it is God who judges the thoughts and intents of the heart; I can only look at behaviors.

 

 

 

So here I go, you believe in God because you fear Hell. You only believe because you were forced to. So there, now I have made up my mind about you through an assumption, and whatever you say I will disregard, because it's easier just to make up stuff. (I'm just copying your behavior.)

 

Nope I never, ever feared hell. I ran to God because He introduced Himself to me and He let me know He loved me and I loved Him too but I did not fully understand the extent of how loving He is. I ran to God because of the immorality of secularism. You know you guys have been stereotyping me from the get-go but you know what? The sin that so easily besets us humans, is being judgmental,l so yeah we all tend to have that one.

 

 

 

He can work with that but people who believe in self-determination can be a pain in the tuckus, they block the Holy Spirit out which is WHY it may take a calamity for them to see they are not self-sufficient.

 

The only thing that got my family through all the hardships in the past was self-determination. We prayed a lot, really, super-much, or should I say super-duper-gianormous much, and no miracles. The only miracles came out of our own hands and our own dedication. 100%±0.

 

Ouroboros, you are being an ungrateful so and so Who wakes you and your family up each day? Who gives you the breath of life and a good mind (that you are not using for God's glory)? Did you mix prayer with bible study? Who says your prayers weren't answered just because they weren't answered the way you wanted them to be answered?

[Ouroboros]

I'm just talking generally and about human nature. It is God who searches the heart. You seem like a nice fellow but it is God who knows what's wrong with you, why you can't believe in Him at the moment.

No, you didn't. You said the guy in the video will do such-and-such, and you pretty much said that everyone who does not believe will one day convert to Christianity on their deathbed.

 

But you're wrong. You are putting words in people's mouths, but you hate it when anyone does it to you.

 

I guess but as I said, I'm talking generally and I sometimes throw in a few specific attitudes to make my case. Again I say, it is God who judges the thoughts and intents of the heart; I can only look at behaviors.

Then don't talk about specifics if you're talking in general. You can use words like "some," "perhaps," etc.

 

Nope I never, ever feared hell. I ran to God because He introduced Himself to me and He let me know He loved me and I loved Him too but I did not fully understand the extent of how loving He is. I ran to God because of the immorality of secularism. You know you guys have been stereotyping me from the get-go but you know what? The sin that so easily besets us humans, is being judgmental,l so yeah we all tend to have that one.

Yes, you fear Hell and that's why you're a Christina.

 

Do you see how annoying it is to have someone assume things about you? That's exactly what you do to other people here. You're not going to gain my respect until you realize this. You treat people differently from how you want to be treated yourself. You are not following the golden rule at all. You want people to treat you the way you want to be treated, and you want to treat people the way you want to treat them. It's the "pile-of-shit" rule.

 

Ouroboros, you are being an ungrateful so and so Who wakes you and your family up each day?

My alarm clock or the sunlight.

 

Aha! The Sun is God. I get it.

 

Who gives you the breath of life and a good mind (that you are not using for God's glory)?

By oxygen, eating nutritious food, and studying science and other topics.

 

Did you mix prayer with bible study?

Yes. And church attendance. And activities in church. And prayer in church. Even went to Sweden to a faith-healing church. Etc...

 

Who says your prayers weren't answered just because they weren't answered the way you wanted them to be answered?

Because the things we prayed for never happened. We still have a son in a wheelchair, and one of the lawyers is still an asshole, and so on...

 

Pray to your God that my son is healed. If he walks by his own power, muscles regenerated, spinal cord healed, and all the other problems gone, then I promise you, I will believe. So I'm waiting for your God to show himself.

[florduh]

Ouroboros, you are being an ungrateful so and so Who wakes you and your family up each day? Who gives you the breath of life and a good mind (that you are not using for God's glory)? Did you mix prayer with bible study? Who says your prayers weren't answered just because they weren't answered the way you wanted them to be answered?

Ouroboros, do you ever get the feeling you are having dialog with a small soap dish? Or perhaps an aquarium rock?