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Goodbye Jesus

Why Do You Remain A Christian?


Antlerman

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atheism... think that they can be reincarnated or evolve into a god or that they have untapped powers

 

you really, seriously, think this is what atheism is?

 

Atheists remind me of those fickle Greek gods but for some reason shy me is attracted to them. God has a sense of humor, maybe He wants to toughen me up; maybe one might actually listen to me. Atheists think they are main arbiters and they make it hard for the HS to get through.

I'm an atheist, and I don't think I can be reincarnated or evolve into a god with untapped powers. So bdp has a point, are you really serious about your view? You will not gain any good reception with people when you paint them with false images. After all, it's a form of lying.

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Babies are ignorant but they are not perfect, they have the selfish sin nature and tendencies.

 

Oh bullshit - babies are blank slates.

 

 

You think babies are tabula rasa? :D

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btw, ask law enforcement, they'll tell you there's zero evidence for any of this hysterical nonsense.

Who needs evidence when you have Jesus?

 

 

Hey you Mr Mischief ;) let's put our fighting aside for a minute; how are you doing this week?

Well, you do make false claims about other people without evidence, and the only thing you make reference to is your belief and your religious figure.

 

Besides that, I'm doing great. Currently I'm working on a project in ASP.Net/Silverlight for a friend of mine who is starting up an investing firm, and he's about to give me an upper management position. But I don't know if I should accept it or not, because I'm on the track for my masters, and I don't want to put that on hold. You see what is possible to do if you use your brain instead of emotions to guide your life.

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atheism... think that they can be reincarnated or evolve into a god or that they have untapped powers

 

you really, seriously, think this is what atheism is?

 

Atheists remind me of those fickle Greek gods but for some reason shy me is attracted to them. God has a sense of humor, maybe He wants to toughen me up; maybe one might actually listen to me. Atheists think they are main arbiters and they make it hard for the HS to get through.

I'm an atheist, and I don't think I can be reincarnated or evolve into a god with untapped powers. So bdp has a point, are you really serious about your view? You will not gain any good reception with people when you paint them with false images. After all, it's a form of lying.

 

 

Pharaoh is an example of atheism, to the people he was a sort of god; the trend in atheism (esp. the philosophical ones or the ones who praise science) is to worship their intellects so in essence, the atheist thinks he is god.

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atheism... think that they can be reincarnated or evolve into a god or that they have untapped powers

 

you really, seriously, think this is what atheism is?

 

Atheists remind me of those fickle Greek gods but for some reason shy me is attracted to them. God has a sense of humor, maybe He wants to toughen me up; maybe one might actually listen to me. Atheists think they are main arbiters and they make it hard for the HS to get through.

I'm an atheist, and I don't think I can be reincarnated or evolve into a god with untapped powers. So bdp has a point, are you really serious about your view? You will not gain any good reception with people when you paint them with false images. After all, it's a form of lying.

 

 

Pharaoh is an example of atheism, to the people he was a sort of god; the trend in atheism (esp. the philosophical ones or the ones who praise science) is to worship their intellects so in essence, the atheist thinks he is god.

 

 

 

I worship nothing.

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Former satanists

 

...like Mike Warnke? Are all 'former satanists' lying bastards like Warnke?

 

btw, ask law enforcement, they'll tell you there's zero evidence for any of this hysterical nonsense.

 

 

Hi *waves*, I like bothering you and Par; Par needs to see a doctor for he keeps throwing up :D

 

Who is Mike Warnke?

 

Law enforcement can't even solve all the plain ole crimes so how are they going to figure out the ones committed by spirit beings that use human agents?

 

:twitch:

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@ Ouroboros

 

"Besides that, I'm doing great. Currently I'm working on a project in ASP.Net/Silverlight for a friend of mine who is starting up an investing firm, and he's about to give me an upper management position. But I don't know if I should accept it or not, because I'm on the track for my masters, and I don't want to put that on hold. You see what is possible to do if you use your brain instead of emotions to guide your life."

 

 

 

I'm glad you're OK, I hope your family is doing as well as they can. I hope you make the best decision for you. Your religious experience was only emotional? One also needs reason.

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atheism... think that they can be reincarnated or evolve into a god or that they have untapped powers

 

you really, seriously, think this is what atheism is?

 

Atheists remind me of those fickle Greek gods but for some reason shy me is attracted to them. God has a sense of humor, maybe He wants to toughen me up; maybe one might actually listen to me. Atheists think they are main arbiters and they make it hard for the HS to get through.

I'm an atheist, and I don't think I can be reincarnated or evolve into a god with untapped powers. So bdp has a point, are you really serious about your view? You will not gain any good reception with people when you paint them with false images. After all, it's a form of lying.

 

 

Pharaoh is an example of atheism, to the people he was a sort of god; the trend in atheism (esp. the philosophical ones or the ones who praise science) is to worship their intellects so in essence, the atheist thinks he is god.

 

 

 

I worship nothing.

 

 

That's what you think.

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I worship nothing.

 

 

That's what you think.

that's what I KNOW

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Pharaoh is an example of atheism, to the people he was a sort of god;

It sounds like you really don't understand the word "a-theism" and what it means. It means to have NO god, not even a Pharaoh God or Blah-blah-blah-blah God.

 

the trend in atheism (esp. the philosophical ones or the ones who praise science) is to worship their intellects so in essence, the atheist thinks he is god.

I can agree with that to some extent. An atheist lifts up and praise reason higher than religious belief, so in that sense, yes, and atheist puts reason, logic, and the ability of human intellect over other things in life, but an atheist does not believe that he or she will be reincarnated or excelled to an omnipotent God. And that's where you were wrong. You claim that atheists believe in reincarnation. They do not. You claim atheists believe they will become god without any limits of powers (or whatever you said). And that is not true either. So you have misconceptions about people and are spreading lies.

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@ Ouroboros

 

"Besides that, I'm doing great. Currently I'm working on a project in ASP.Net/Silverlight for a friend of mine who is starting up an investing firm, and he's about to give me an upper management position. But I don't know if I should accept it or not, because I'm on the track for my masters, and I don't want to put that on hold. You see what is possible to do if you use your brain instead of emotions to guide your life."

 

 

 

I'm glad you're OK, I hope your family is doing as well as they can. I hope you make the best decision for you. Your religious experience was only emotional? One also needs reason.

I tried to find reasons when the emotional part failed. But I haven't found reason to believe. It's irrational and illogical, and it does not have any evidence.

 

I have asked repeatedly for you and other Christians to give irrefutable evidence for your God. The irrefutable evidence to convince me would be to see a real miracle, not some stupid thing like a cloud shapes like a goose, dog, or gnome. I'm talking about a real miracle. You can't provide it. Instead you blabber away with a million words, and never will you give anything that is real and tangible.

 

Besides, even with your words, you spread irrational and illogical ideas around like wildfire and hope that someone will buy into your snake-oil sales-talk. I'm not that gullible.

 

(Right now I'm enjoying listening to Duran Duran. One of my favorite groups. The singer, Simon Le Bon, is an agnostic/atheist too. :3:)

 

I think there are mainly three things that gives a person to belief:

1. reason

2. evidence

3. emotions

 

I have the emotions of "faith" anymore. I have gone through all the "reasons" given for God and they all fail. And I have never seen any evidence for your God to exist.

 

So it's natural that I would have the atheist view.

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Guest I Love Dog

 

Atheists remind me of those fickle Greek gods but for some reason shy me is attracted to them. God has a sense of humor, maybe He wants to toughen me up; maybe one might actually listen to me.

 

Perhaps you may actually listen to an atheist one day, when you're toughened up! Where is evidence of god's SOH? Oh, he created Christians, that's the SOH you're talking about, no doubt.

 

I have doubts that any atheist will actually listen to you, your arguments are very juvenile and aren't very convincing at all and your research is even more lacking if you think atheists believe in reincarnation, lol!

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I worship nothing.

That's what you think.

that's what I KNOW

Dumbelina thinks she knows you better than you know yourself. She can't see that she's shooting herself in the foot.

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Aman: 1. I am not an atheist.

 

Thumbelina: Whew, good, that's the worst religion that ol' Luci came up with.

You sure have a thing for imagining external characters playing with us like toys on a board, don't you? Truth be told, I see atheism as a step forward away from the Elf God, Magic Anthropomorphic mythical view of God. It is a positive stance rejecting our previous child-level way of imagining the world. We need to move beyond that, so they are correct in their rejection of that. I just don't accept it as a conclusion of all higher truth. I believe there to be something beyond that that doesn't toss out the baby with the bathwater of myth.

 

In other words, it's really no different than you saying that religions that see many gods need to be rejected to believe in one God. In their case, they say we need to reject mythical anthropomorphic ideas and embrace reason. So do I in that regard.

 

Aman: 2. I took your words, not the Bible's and I simply substituted the main character and objects. They are your words, just simply saying House Elf instead of God.

 

But that you should respond in an attack, falsely trying to label me an atheist, and secondly not facing the fact that these were your words and there was no twisting at all going on, shows to me you can't see beyond your Magic ideas about God and just blotted them out from what was presented directly to you.

 

Thumbelina: How did I attack you? How is calling your behavior atheistic an attack? I did not call you an atheist.

 

You keep missing my point, I perceived you as being sacrilegious. Also, virtually no one appeals to a house elf in times of trouble and virtually no one forms forums that keep talking and talking and talking and talking infinitely it woud seem, about a house elf but there is A LOT of forums about God, The Creator.

 

We disagree on this that's all.

It's not a matter of disagreement, it's a matter of you can't/are unwilling, to recognize that how you imagine God sounds 100% just like a child's imagination of magic beings, a "house elf" in this example. Your view of God sounds exactly like a Harry Potter movie.

 

You're just saying "we disagree, that's all", because you don't want to face this which is blatantly exposed by simply substituting the names of the main characters. On this defense you offer, you fail.

 

Aman: As far as 1 Cor 13 goes, I quote that verse all the time in reference to those who imagine God is some sort of magic-doing house elf as you just described in your paragraph above. If in fact you admit to see through a glass darkly now (i.e. a child's imagination), then how is it you can call me such silliness as "New Age" and whatnot which you will do here shortly? You simply don't understand, seeing through a glass darkly as a child....

 

 

Thumbelina: You are interpreting that text the way you see it and that is not what it means at all. God inspired Paul to communicate that more of His (God's) character would be revealed when we are glorified, in our mortal bodies we will still have a somewhat imperfect knowledge of Him. Did I call you New Age? Your philosophies seemed New Age-like IMO.

Well that's because you're ignorant about what New Age is. But to the real point, I personally believe Paul was speaking, not as some imagined transcriptionist of God's dictations, but as a man who had in fact had a mystical experience and he was speaking of what level of awareness occurs in direct experience of the Divine. Proof? Paul says,

 

I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

 

2 Cor 12:1-4

 

Let me guess, Paul was New Age? One can't experience that in this life! :)

 

All I'm saying is there are degrees of knowledge that exist in this life that go beyond that of child, and I believe Paul was expressing this in saying "know we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face, knowing as we are known", set in the context of what he imaged would be that Realized Union with the Divine, in his mythical framework.

 

I'll give a dollar if you even 1/10th understood that.

 

Thumbelina said: Seems to me you are describing some type of New Age philosophy.

 

 

 

Aman: Nope. New Age is basically experimental Christianity, dabbling in new objects of faith, but essentially no real transforming understanding of the whole. It's not a bad thing to try to step beyond, but the focus on "self", the "me and my salvation", focus of it is just as it is for the narcissistic Christian. "Oooh, God blessed me today!", sort of focus, like your story of the house elf....

 

Thumbelina: New Age is spiritualism and it is not uncommon for ol' Luci' (Lucifer) to use the name of Christ in his doctrines when it suits his purpose; d'uh, if he comes as himself most people would run from him.

Ahhh, yes, House Elf's arch nemesis, Bad Elf. :fdevil:

 

Satan likes to mingle some truth with error and that renders it a lie.

Bad Elf aside... partial truth contains truth, just not a full picture, or a larger truth, or understanding. Christianity has some truth in it too, as well as error. So does atheism, so do all other ways of trying to understand and relate to the world. No Bad Elf, just evolving and growing understandings into higher levels of truth, not a straight line, but growth nonetheless.

 

The Christian God is a selfless God, He became like one of us in order to take our place. Christianity teaches one to love ones enemies and to care for their fellow man. The bible teaches that it is good to give God thanks, during the good times and during the bad times too. Giving thanks keeps one humble and prevents one from getting "Nebuchadnezzar disease", you know? look what I did and look who I command. Being grateful shows us where and who we are in the grand scheme of things, i.e. created beings. Christianity is not narcissistic, though some of its proponents may behave that way but they won't be following Christ.

I'd argue that much less than 1% of Christians actually have any sense of any of this. I do recognize certain spiritual truths within Christianity that transcend Christianity, but for the most part, people as Christians in fact are extremely narcissistic, and the system as structured and promoted does very little to in fact move people into that which transcends it.

 

You say it is the Truth, and therefore it fails.

 

Thumbelina said: New Age, Wicca, Hinduism, occultism, stoicism, Buddhism, atheism, spiritualism etc.(all those dang isms are causing schisms between God and man, including those schisms within Christianity ) are basically the same thing, all think that they can be reincarnated or evolve into a god or that they have untapped powers *shakes head* No dice Aman, the Word is as a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

 

 

 

Aman: You're way out of your league, lumping all these things (which would of necessity include Christianity as well), into a big pile and saying it's one thing. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just spewing forth ignorance rather than trying to listen and understand from a sincere heart.

 

Thumbelina: The bible is my guide and none of the above philosophies encapsulates Solo Christo, sola scriptura, sola fide and sola gratia. Those philosophies are intertwined and tweaked to the preferences of the particular people groups. I did include Christianity, look again, I highlighted it in red. A human cannot judge the heart of another human; that is God's prerogative.We can only look on the outward actions.

The Bible is your guide? Bull. If it were, you wouldn't ever tune in any Christian radio station and listen to some minster tell you what the Bible says, you wouldn't ever read or listen to any other religious person anywhere at any time. No, others are your guides. You're not that gifted as to be able to understand any of it at all without others telling you something about it! That, is a simple fact. And therefore your claim that the Bible is your guide, 'sola scritura' is false. It's sounds good, but it's false.

 

 

(continued)

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Aman said: I in fact accept the Perennial Philosophy which recognizes an underlying commonality in all religious pursuits, which includes Christianity, but it is not so trite and self-centered as you say it is. It's not about "their" untapped powers in some narcissistic universe centered around them (which you express in your religious thought), but rather to transform beyond themselves into a self-less connection with the Divine. Absolute Unity with God, or Brahman, or Atman.

 

 

Thumbelina: Is Satanism included in there (having something in common with all religious pursuits)? Aman, how did you arrive at your current beliefs and why did you leave Jesus? Do you have a testimony somewhere on this forum?

Satanism is Christianity turned upside down. It was started by Catholic priests as a counter statement to Christianity itself. I don't accept it as a legitimate religion, in that is is basically a statement about Christianity in its very definition. Where did Satan come from? Christianity. However, I believe it is an expression of man's struggle to cope with the anxiety of life.

 

I said Perennial Philosophy, not post-modernism. I don't consider Neo-Nazism to be legitimate either. They are expressive of a problem with the parent religion itself, not of some underlying higher truth.

 

Aman: However... that you state it the way you do as being a self-centered, ego-stroking sort of enterprise, I hear you taking your narcissistic religious focus and making these others evil competitors to yours in your pursuit of "being right", validating your particular project you use as a substitute for real spiritual existence - beyond your narcissistic self.

 

Thumbelina: According to the bible it is self-centered ..., if it's not a thus saith the Lord then it means that people (in some cases it is by default) are making their own reasoning into a god and it leaves them open to be deceived by Old Luci'.

Nonsense. You are ignorant.

 

Aman: As I said, you are out of your element, but you do expose what you are. A child, imaging God as some gift-giving Magic that has you as the focus of his purpose in Being. The only thing I'm interested in is Being itself. Not becoming "a god", but becoming God - not in some sort of "Big Me!" possessing all power sort of narcissistic ME!, but to be the fullness, that fulfillment of Being Itself in me and through me as That, not me.

 

Thumbelina: :) I am a child of The King and I do have His supreme regard but so does everyone; it is only FEW people (compared to the rest of the population) that will take Him at His word, they disbelieve Him and therefore call Him a liar :(

He says as long as I CHOOSE to come to Him then He WILL complete the work He started in me Phil 1:6. He's sanctifying me by His word which IS truth John 17:17 http://bible.cc/john/17-17.htm

He also says that the believer needs to work out their salvation with fear and trembling but He is the one to perform the transformation and the believer must be willing to let Him do so. Phil 2:12,13

And when the going get's tough...................

 

 

 

 

 

facehugger.jpg

 

 

Aman said: This is not your religion, and you have no idea what that means. Even though I could point you to that within your own texts you call a Light to you feet. It is there in all religions. Transformation into union with Godhead.

 

Thumbelina: Mr., that was an analogy, I said the word is AS a light, it helps the believer spot error.

 

Aman: If you want to have a serious discussion with me about this I'm willing, but I need to hear a little humility in you, showing your interest in being more than happy remaining an infant.

 

Thumbelina: I don't mind discussing different beliefs, people are interesting. You don't like me speaking some of the lingo of the atheists? :D I only do some of it, for the whole lingo is bad, real bad. If I'm an infant then unbelievers/disbelievers are zygotes, no eyes formed yet ;) Please don't get mad, that is what the bible says, we just are supposed to preach the truth. I do have to work on being tactful but I also need to know when to be spunky too; I need to be balanced.

I see those who left your religion as more advanced.

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Pharaoh is an example of atheism, to the people he was a sort of god;

It sounds like you really don't understand the word "a-theism" and what it means. It means to have NO god, not even a Pharaoh God or Blah-blah-blah-blah God.

 

the trend in atheism (esp. the philosophical ones or the ones who praise science) is to worship their intellects so in essence, the atheist thinks he is god.

I can agree with that to some extent. An atheist lifts up and praise reason higher than religious belief, so in that sense, yes, and atheist puts reason, logic, and the ability of human intellect over other things in life, but an atheist does not believe that he or she will be reincarnated or excelled to an omnipotent God. And that's where you were wrong. You claim that atheists believe in reincarnation. They do not. You claim atheists believe they will become god without any limits of powers (or whatever you said). And that is not true either. So you have misconceptions about people and are spreading lies.

 

 

We are still speaking two different languages. In the book of Revelation Pharaoh or spiritual Egypt symbolizes atheism. Atheism is the beast from the abyss; one of Satan's biggest schemes.

 

 

The bible says whatever one puts above God is in essence a god to the individual and for atheists it is their own brain. I had lumped atheism with other belief systems (it's based on bible prophecy). Atheists TEND to think that they are getting brighter and brighter and that there will eventually be no religion or God. You added words to what I said, they think they are god but the only power they have is their maybe good, but limited knowledge.

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We are still speaking two different languages. In the book of Revelation Pharaoh or spiritual Egypt symbolizes atheism. Atheism is the beast from the abyss; one of Satan's biggest schemes.

Impossible.

 

"A-" prefix means "not."

 

"Theism" means "God."

 

A-theism = Not-God.

 

Learn the roots and etymology before you spew stupidity.

 

The bible says whatever one puts above God is in essence a god to the individual and for atheists it is their own brain.

Sure. I trust my brain more than I trust my brain to trust you.

 

You trust your brain more than you trust mine.

 

You trust your brain more than you trust anyone else.

 

You trust your brain more than you trust God. How else did you decide to follow God? It must have been you taking the step, no one else. So it was you, and your brain, who made the decision or got convinced about the religion you now think is the best invention after sliced bread.

 

The highest God in your life is you and your brain too. So by your definition, you're an atheist.

 

I had lumped atheism with other belief systems (it's based on bible prophecy). Atheists TEND to think that they are getting brighter and brighter and that there will eventually be no religion or God.

False.

 

I fear that humanity is getting dumber and dumber and religion is taking over. And I'm an atheist.

 

You are full of lies.

 

You added words to what I said, they think they are god but the only power they have is their maybe good, but limited knowledge.

I have more knowledge than you. That's obvious.

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Christianity is not narcissistic

 

Yes it is.

So true.

 

It's all about the "saved" person and the interest in his or her eternal future. It's egotistic. "Be saved, but only if you believe exactly what I believe!"

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Christianity is not narcissistic

 

Yes it is.

So true.

 

It's all about the "saved" person and the interest in his or her eternal future. It's egotistic. "Be saved, but only if you believe exactly what I believe!"

 

Narcissism is it's one most outstanding trait.

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Guest I Love Dog

Pharaoh is an example of atheism, to the people he was a sort of god; the trend in atheism (esp. the philosophical ones or the ones who praise science) is to worship their intellects so in essence, the atheist thinks he is god.

 

 

Have you any idea at all of what you are talking about? Your flea-like reasoning presents you as someone who does not possess a very high degree of intelligence. I wonder why your god served you up a short measure? You must have offended him in some way.

 

Pharoahs were rulers, king-like, not godlike. They were nothing to do with atheism so your statement is totally laughable.

 

Atheists worship nothing, so your statement is utterly ridiculous. Atheists do not worship their intellects. Atheism does NOT have trends, it is purely the non-belief in the existence of a god or gods.

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Pharoahs were rulers, king-like, not godlike. They were nothing to do with atheism so your statement is totally laughable.

I do remember that Pharaohs were considered gods, reincarnations of Horus (or something like that).

 

But of course it doesn't make the egyptians atheists. Dumbelina needs to read up a little.

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Guest I Love Dog

Pharoahs were rulers, king-like, not godlike. They were nothing to do with atheism so your statement is totally laughable.

I do remember that Pharaohs were considered gods, reincarnations of Horus (or something like that).

 

But of course it doesn't make the egyptians atheists. Dumbelina needs to read up a little.

 

It's my understanding that Pharoahs were not actually considered to be gods themselves, but had a close association with the god Horus, much like the Pope is considered to be god's representative on Earth, but...yes, whatever, the Egyptians in no way possible could be considered to be atheists, lol! They almost invented religion!

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The bible interprets itself

:funny::lmao::funny:

 

 

That is singularly, the most ignorant thing I think I have ever heard anyone say. So... the Bible reads itself to? It's got a pair of eyes and a brain, and thinks and reasons? We are talking a book here, paper, pages, ink... not a human who thinks, right?

 

 

 

Or perhaps you imagine it like this?

 

necronomicon.jpg

 

 

The talking reading, self-interpreting book of Magic to go with your House Elf and his arch rival Bad Elf. It's all coming together.....

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Christianity is not myth. Yes, a lot of people are deceived and think that Satan does not exist; that's exactly what he wants. The veil between the natural and the supernatural will be raised MORE (currently, people do see supernatural things) in the latter times and he will deceive a lot of people. He will impersonate Christ; he is terribly jealous of Jesus. Have you ever had someone be jealous of you and who imitated you in order to compete with you and the person was quite conniving? That can be so annoying or even dangerous. A lot of those kids that are reported missing, who vanished without a trace, a lot of them were sacrificed by satanists. Former satanists admit that these things do go on; one even said that they cannot do anything with the kids that are prayed for. There is a lot of evil out there.

 

 

Yes there is a lot of evil out there and some of it is in the church. Some Satantists fuck up peoples lives behind closed doors, the church destroys young people's lives and minds in the open, and no one bats an eyelid except ex christians who leave the church sometimes because they are sick and tired of watching lives and mind destroyed by the bullshit that is christianity. And girly don't bother telling me it isn't true, I sat there and watched it for 36 years.

 

Why didn't you call the cops? Don't let all the bad apples spoil the whole bunch. Christ is not like that.

 

Call the cops? Yeah right. Didn't you know the christian church has carte blanche to abuse others? No one cares, except those that have to pick up the pieces. The point is, the WHOLE christian system is well and truly fucked up. Most christians wouldn't recognise christ if he bit them on the ass. Even if he actually existed in the first place, what christians have done to his philosophy is heartbreaking. You have a LOT to learn about the big world girly.

 

Oh and while we are at it who the fuck do you think you are to tell another human being who or what they worship. You can get inside people's minds now can you? This is the problem with christians. You think you know everything and that life is a one size fits all affair. It isn't. I suspect it is a shame your parents didn't spank you a bit more often when you were little. Might have taught you a bit of humility, in which you are sadly lacking. After all, wasn't it christ who said learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart? Funny how most christians forget about that in their ego driven rush to tell the rest of us how life should be lived, when most of them can't even spell humility, much less embrace it.

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