What Good Has Atheism Done?

[florduh]

those who pervert his teachings.

And those Christians accuse YOU of perverting the teachings. WAKE UP! You're just representing one of the thousands of views of the religion, not one of which has a single scrap of evidence for its veracity. Not a scrap, not even for your own special "True" version of Christianity.

[Guest amazed]

those who pervert his teachings.

And those Christians accuse YOU of perverting the teachings. WAKE UP! You're just representing one of the thousands of views of the religion, not one of which has a single scrap of evidence for its veracity. Not a scrap, not even for your own special "True" version of Christianity.

What teaching of Christianity am i perverting? I have already given lots of evidence from a number of different views.

[Japedo]

 

You to are doing it for your own reward. Your reward is that it makes you feel better to do it.

 

 

That's not what I said. I think helping people is the right thing to do, my feelings are moot on the matter. You stated that if you were an atheist that you would be selfish, you have yet to show us how being a xtain makes you any less selfish. I'll wait, I know you're answering lots of comments....

[florduh]

What teaching of Christianity am i perverting?

Don't ask me. Ask somebody from a different denomination of your own religion. I think they're all perverted.

[Snakefoot]

I believe that the best explanation for the universe is the existence of a creator with vast powers and intelligence. I just don’t think that this universe which is so high fined tuned could come about without some intelligence behind it. Now if I’m correct about this then it would not be impossible if this being (God) could communicate with mankind if he so chose to. That’s why I have no problem with accepting the Bible as his communication to us.

 

Were that true, one would expect a god to be at least as smart as Stanley Kubrick and figure out a way to communicate at least as effectively as the aliens portrayed in "2001: A Space Odyssey."

 

Have you ever read it? If so, what did you think?

 

In every translation I could find, in Greek, and in transliterated Hebrew. And it's still nothing more than a collection of fairytales written by superstitious Bronze Age goatherders.

[Snakefoot]

Doing good to chalk up one more mark is not what Christianity teaches as the primary motivation to do good. We are to do good to be pleasing to Christ. That is to be the ambition for all Christians. Sadly its not always the case.

 

So, Jeebus keeps up with the chalk marks for you. Same thing, just your invisible friend doing the score keeping. He writes it down in a book. The babble says so.

[oddbird1963]

Doing good to chalk up one more mark is not what Christianity teaches as the primary motivation to do good. We are to do good to be pleasing to Christ. That is to be the ambition for all Christians. Sadly its not always the case.

 

So, Jeebus keeps up with the chalk marks for you. Same thing, just your invisible friend doing the score keeping. He writes it down in a book. The babble says so.

 

 

I had a nice evening last night. Dan Barker was speaking to a college Freethought group and I attended too.

 

He told the story about a visit to Kenya where an Islamic family hosted him for a debate. He said they were extremely gentle and kind and generous to him. He even received gifts from them.

 

When he commented to the husband of this family and thanked him, the man said, "Allah commands me to be good to you."

 

Barker said he was actually quite disappointed. "I thought he liked me."

 

It deflates the meaning of a gesture to know that a person is only being good because they were told to be good.

[Kuroikaze]

 

Have you looked Christianity's influence on education for the past 2000 years? The church in the early centuries was educating more people than the secular societies. Unlike the Greeks and Romans who educated only boys from privileged segments of society, the church taught individuals from all social classes and backgrounds. Secondly, universtities such as Harvard, Yale and Princeton to name a few began as Christian schools.

 

Are there any atheist individuals in past centuries who established schools based on atheism to educate the poor?

 

Except that is a freaking lie. Look, in the middle ages, there WEREN'T any secular organizations in Europe because saying you were an atheist would get you killed by the church. Furthermore, literacy rates were abysmal in most of Europe during this time period. The church LIKED it when people were ignorant, because it made the job of controlling them that much more easy.

 

Certainly many colleges were started by Christians who cared about education, but these were hardly attempts to educate the poor, these colleges cost money to attend. If you want to see a secular offering look no further than our public school system. I have already pointed this out though, so I suspect you will simply ignore this and continue to shout that we have given you no evidence despite the mountain we have provided.

[Kuroikaze]

You are right there has been evil done in the name of Christ. This evil is not based on what he taught but on those who pervert his teachings. They have abused it.

 

Do you not see the double standard you are creating here?

 

If good is done in the name of Christ you take credit, but if evil is done you say it is a perversion and refuse credit.

 

Next you ask for evidence of something that cannot exist, because of your religions proclivity to kill people who disagreed with them during the time period from which you are asking for the proof.

 

And don't dare tell me that those killings were a perversion because you just got through arguing that the murders/genocide in the bible were justified because of god's command.

[par4dcourse]

Just read in the other hot thread that amazed is 18. Explains a lot.

[Guest amazed]

You are right there has been evil done in the name of Christ. This evil is not based on what he taught but on those who pervert his teachings. They have abused it.

 

Do you not see the double standard you are creating here?

 

If good is done in the name of Christ you take credit, but if evil is done you say it is a perversion and refuse credit.

 

Next you ask for evidence of something that cannot exist, because of your religions proclivity to kill people who disagreed with them during the time period from which you are asking for the proof.

 

And don't dare tell me that those killings were a perversion because you just got through arguing that the murders/genocide in the bible were justified because of god's command.

Can you point any teachings of Christ that would justify the inquisitions or the priest scandals of the catholic church?

Now it is true that there were times God did order the killing of whole nations that had a long time to repent. However this would not be justification for any church or christian to do so today.

[Guest amazed]

Just read in the other hot thread that amazed is 18. Explains a lot.

I wish i was again that old..

[NotBlinded]

Just read in the other hot thread that amazed is 18. Explains a lot.

I wish i was again that old..

So you're not 18? What's your excuse then?

[Guest amazed]

Have you looked Christianity's influence on education for the past 2000 years? The church in the early centuries was educating more people than the secular societies. Unlike the Greeks and Romans who educated only boys from privileged segments of society, the church taught individuals from all social classes and backgrounds. Secondly, universtities such as Harvard, Yale and Princeton to name a few began as Christian schools.

 

Are there any atheist individuals in past centuries who established schools based on atheism to educate the poor?

I think it's time to take issue with your insistence that medieval education was unrelated to class or money. Certainly there was sexual discrimination, but I'm sure you would acknowledge that.

 

Let's see what some websites say about how the poor were educated:

 

Most peasants were never allowed to study as the fees required by the church were beyond their reach. In addition, by keeping the population ignorant, the upper class could get away with almost anything.

 

A small percentage of peasant children managed to attend school in order to learn how to read and write and understand basic math; this usually took place at a monastery. For this education, their parents had to pay the lord a fine and usually promise that the child would not take ecclesiastical orders.

 

Children at monasteries were most often younger sons of noble families.

 

Knights were also educated and looked down upon if they could not read and write. Girls were virtually ignored when it came to education. Only daughters of the very rich and powerful were allowed to attend select courses.

 

 

Church education was not as egalitarian as you would suggest. Public education (secular) has done vastly better at educating the poor than the church did or even tried to do. Thank atheists for that, because you surely can't thank the church.

If you go back to the Roman empire you don't see them educating the poor. Secondly, a lot of private schools today are Christian and do a far better job at education than the secular schools. Also home schooled kids is also done predominately by Chrisian parents and these kids usually do better than those in public schools.

[bdp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsfashDI6vU&feature=fvst

[Guest amazed]

Just read in the other hot thread that amazed is 18. Explains a lot.

I wish i was again that old..

So you're not 18? What's your excuse then?

i'm just plain stupid...

[NotBlinded]

i'm just plain stupid...

Well, honesty is a good quality to have.

 

You're not stupid, you're ignorant of your religion. Big difference.

[Snakefoot]

According to the Old Testament, the Canaanites and other tribes in the land widely practiced child sacrifice, incest, bestiality, and other behaviors that almost everyone in history, including today, rightly regard as unspeakably, grossly immoral. For this reason this nation needed to be exterminated.

 

"According to the Old Testament" There's the problem right there. You (and your alleged scholars) believe the babble is true because it says it is true.

 

What non-babblical source backs up these assertions about the Canaanites?

[florduh]

i'm just plain stupid...

No, you're not. That's why your threads have become lengthy. If you were stupid, this would have ended long ago. You're just stubborn and wearing the Jesus blinders that blot out reason, common sense and reality.

 

You seem to be parroting the things you've been taught without thinking them through. If you go long enough without answering questions with your own words and thoughts, and if you continue to ask the same questions that have been answered multiple times, people will lose interest in you.

 

Many of the people here have knowledge that far surpasses yours. You are debating or arguing with some former pastors, missionaries, teachers and scholars. Some of us have studied the Bible and Christianity longer than you have lived. We aren't ignorant of the texts you reference, nor are we unfamiliar with apologetics. Some of us have taught it.

 

Stick around, but please don't consider this a fertile ground for evangelizing.

[Snakefoot]

According to the Old Testament, the Canaanites and other tribes in the land widely practiced child sacrifice, incest, bestiality, and other behaviors that almost everyone in history, including today, rightly regard as unspeakably, grossly immoral. For this reason this nation needed to be exterminated.

So the solution was to kill them all, including their children? Seriously. If there (and I say "if", because I read some archeological report that these accusations have not been substantiated) were child-sacrifice going on, then why kill the children and women too? Donkey, horses, and all the cattle as well. Burn down their houses and beat the crap out of the kittens. All in the name of the vengeful and hateful God called YHWH.

 

How sick and twisted is that?

Did this action by Israel stop the spread of these horrible practices?

 

No, because on the other side of the world the Aztecs/Mayans were performing brutal human sacrifices centuries later in the 14-16th centuries CE.

[Kuroikaze]

Can you point any teachings of Christ that would justify the inquisitions or the priest scandals of the catholic church?

Now it is true that there were times God did order the killing of whole nations that had a long time to repent. However this would not be justification for any church or christian to do so today.

 

See, but from the outset you are moving the goal posts to make things more favorable to you.

 

Why is the examples of genocide not justification for things in modern times? YOU interpret it that way, but people in the middle ages sure didn't. I do not see any reason within the bible to conclude that their interpretation is less correct that yours.

 

How far do you have to look for a justification of the inquisition? The bible instructs people to kill those who engage in witchcraft, homosexuality, ect..... indeed you yourself absolved Israel of guilt with the claim that the Canaanites were so evil they deserved it, this is no different than the catholic church thought at the time of the inquisition.

 

The priest scandals? In biblical times, what we would consider pedophilia was common practice and no one, including Jesus ever said that it was immoral for people to marry off their 12 or 13 year old daughter to some older man.

[Ouroboros]

Do you have some examples down through the centuries of atheistic institutions doing good like feeding the poor and building hospitals?

You still are stuck in the "atheistic" institution. There are no specific atheistic institutions because any non-religious institution is de facto an atheistic institution, but is never called as such.

 

Any non-religious institution is an example: UNICEF, WHO, Doctors for peace--for the third or fourth time.

 

Do you have some reading comprehension issues? I wonder, because you keep on dodging my posts where I state this FACTS, and you just keep on repeating the same voice track of yours.

[Guest amazed]

Do you have some examples down through the centuries of atheistic institutions doing good like feeding the poor and building hospitals?

You still are stuck in the "atheistic" institution. There are no specific atheistic institutions because any non-religious institution is de facto an atheistic institution, but is never called as such.

 

Any non-religious institution is an example: UNICEF, WHO, Doctors for peace--for the third or fourth time.

Are these organizations you quote built on atheistic principles?

 

Do you have some reading comprehension issues? I wonder, because you keep on dodging my posts where I state this FACTS, and you just keep on repeating the same voice track of yours.

i can sense your frustation. I'd be frustated to. So far we haven't seen any instutional agencies building hospitals or feeding the poor based on atheistic principles. While we have many examples down through the centuries of Christians coming together to build hospitals, educating the poor and feeding them.

[Kuroikaze]

Are these organizations you quote built on atheistic principles?

 

There is not clear organized set of atheistic principles.

 

i can sense your frustation. I'd be frustated to. So far we haven't seen any instutional agencies building hospitals or feeding the poor based on atheistic principles. While we have many examples down through the centuries of Christians coming together to build hospitals, educating the poor and feeding them.

 

We are frustRated because you are acting like an idiot.

[Snakefoot]

These are good questions and again i would have to do some research on this.

 

research? These are not questions that require research.

 

He means: Find out what some babble-thumping douchebag "scholar" has written about it then regurgitate here.

Original thought is not one of his strong suits.