What Good Has Atheism Done?

[Guest amazed]

Nations are made of people, some of whom are good, some of whom are bad. To "dehumanize" the people of Canaan like that is immoral. Infants were killed! Oh, those evil Infants.

 

It's difficult to accept the Christian concept of individual salvation against this backdrop.

 

Phanta

Its possible that the reason infants were also killed is that this would have stopped the Israelites from acheiving victory in totally destroying this wicked culture and thereby stopping the spread of this evil.

 

What is it difficult for you to accept the Christian concept of individual salvation against this backdrop?

[Kuroikaze]

These are good questions and again i would have to do some research on this.

 

research? These are not questions that require research.

[Mike D]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

I would bet that disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is more popular than Christianity and I can't say much good has come from that disbelief either.

[Guest amazed]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

 

you would expect? who cares what you would expect. Your expectations and reality do not seem to match very often from what I can gather.

Do you think if atheism was as popular as Christianity was during the past 2000 years we would have charities and schools for the poor?

[Kuroikaze]

Its possible that the reason infants were also killed is that this would have stopped the Israelites from acheiving victory in totally destroying this wicked culture and thereby stopping the spread of this evil.

 

Hitler used the same logic to justify the killing of the jews. Their culture was wicked, all the worlds ills were caused by them, letting them live would be immoral. He even claimed that he was doing god's work.

[Guest Net Eng]

 

You must be a robot with ID10T error printing on your forehead.

 

Not bot with ID10T issue. But a person where PEBKAC applies.

 

*sigh* Par warned him/her but no....

[Guest amazed]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

I would bet that disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is more popular than Christianity and I can't say much good has come from that disbelief either.

The fact is that much good has happened in the name of Christ over the last 2000 years than there has been for the tooth fairy or anything else you care to mention.

[godlessgrrl]

I realize that this post will probably be ignored or dismissed with the rest, but it's a rainy night and I feel like taking a brief mental exercise. Call me crazy.

 

The OP's question isn't appropriate. Neither are his demands or expectations of atheism. I realize we already know this, but it bears repeating.

 

Atheism is a position on the existence of a god or gods. It is not a philosophy, world view, institution, religion, or system unto itself. It does not have rules, laws, writ, or mandates. It does not dictate the morality of those individuals who adopt it. Those of us who do not believe in a god or gods will have to form world views which do not involve a deity, but we need not adopt one particular life philosophy or another; many are possible: nihilism, humanism, utilitarianism, and so on.

 

To ask what atheism has done for the world is to ask a nonsensical question. The question indicates that the OP believes that atheism is something which it is not, and that it should conform to his mistaken belief and meet his misdirected expectations. It is a little like expecting a spoon to behave like a steam engine, and then faulting the spoon for not being able to explain the history of rail travel.

 

Truth is: atheism has done nothing for the world. To think it is supposed to is as foolish as to think that Christianity has done everything for the world. In the end, it is not religions or philosophies or gods which shape this world for good or ill, it is people. An individual atheist or Christian can do much for the world. Atheism or Christianity can do nothing for it.

 

But I believe this has also been mentioned already. As have the bulk of the OP's queries throughout this thread. If the OP hasn't the comprehension or manners to consider the multiple answers to his presumably honest questions, then that's certainly no fault of ours.

[Shyone]

Nations are made of people, some of whom are good, some of whom are bad. To "dehumanize" the people of Canaan like that is immoral. Infants were killed! Oh, those evil Infants.

 

It's difficult to accept the Christian concept of individual salvation against this backdrop.

 

Phanta

Its possible that the reason infants were also killed is that this would have stopped the Israelites from acheiving victory in totally destroying this wicked culture and thereby stopping the spread of this evil.

 

What is it difficult for you to accept the Christian concept of individual salvation against this backdrop?

My understanding is that Christianity, and by extension the God of the Old Testament, would have sought to convert the heathens and treat them as individuals. Do you teach about God, or just slaughter those that don't believe?

 

And their children?

[ContraBardus]

Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries?

Who cares? Atheism isn't a lifestyle like Christianity it's a disbelief in god(s).

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

 

Well, Christianity isn't as popular as Christians claim to begin with. Never has been really. At no point did the majority of the world believe in it, nor does it today.

 

Also, why do your expectations matter? What you 'expect' is irrelevant. Atheism is not a philosophy, it's just a single philosophical idea, and many Atheists have already done a great deal of good for the world.

 

There's evidence against your claim. Humanist and Secular Science have done more to improve the lives of humanity than 2,000 years of Christianity ever did. Human Rights are the result of Humanism, not Religion. Medicine and Technology are the result of Secular Science, not Religion.

 

Religion has a track record of standing in the way of progress. They intentionally prevented education in the Dark Ages, stood in the way of human rights and civil rights throughout history, promoted wars and killing to promote their on agendas and power reach, and still do everything they can to stall the growth of knowledge and progress for humanity.

 

Yet, they have no qualms about using these advances to their own advantage, and try to claim it as their own, as if it was their idea. The idea that America was founded as a Christian nation is one such falsehood that is common today.

 

Fools are more easily controlled, the meek are easy to force to bow, and ignorance can be used by the educated against a much larger group of fools. That is how the Church operates, and why it is so much more prevalent in places with lower education levels. It keeps things that way, and it does so on purpose.

 

Knowledge is power, and the Church does not like sharing power.

[Mike D]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

I would bet that disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is more popular than Christianity and I can't say much good has come from that disbelief either.

The fact is that much good has happened in the name of Christ over the last 2000 years than there has been for the tooth fairy or anything else you care to mention.

You're completely missing the point.

 

Disbelief in something is not an advocacy for good.

 

Disbelief is.... disbelief.

 

Period.

[Kuroikaze]

Do you think if atheism was as popular as Christianity was during the past 2000 years we would have charities and schools for the poor?

 

yes, I do, and probably better run too. Public schools were enacted during the enlightenment by people who were mainly deist. The believed that people were not inherently evil, but much evil was the result of a lack of education. They believed society could be improved by providing public education.

 

During the heyday of the theistic governments until the 18th century almost no one could read, it was modern SECULAR society that changed that, not your religion. Your religion had 1500 years to get in right and squandered it.

[Guest amazed]

Its possible that the reason infants were also killed is that this would have stopped the Israelites from acheiving victory in totally destroying this wicked culture and thereby stopping the spread of this evil.

 

Hitler used the same logic to justify the killing of the jews. Their culture was wicked, all the worlds ills were caused by them, letting them live would be immoral. He even claimed that he was doing god's work.

Huh? Are you saying the culture of the Jews in germany were wicked at the time of Hitler? Just because Hitler may have claimed to be doing God's work does not make it so. We would need to see what he was using to justify this before we can say he was doing God's work. Joshua certainly had good reasons to destroy the Cananites.

[Guest amazed]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

I would bet that disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is more popular than Christianity and I can't say much good has come from that disbelief either.

The fact is that much good has happened in the name of Christ over the last 2000 years than there has been for the tooth fairy or anything else you care to mention.

You're completely missing the point.

 

Disbelief in something is not an advocacy for good.

 

Disbelief is.... disbelief.

 

Period.

And what good does your disbelief lead you to?

[Guest amazed]

Again, for the second time, did you read my earlier response to that question? I do have extremely good reasons to do good. But if you do not listen or read the answers, then you will keep on asking the question. Listen and learn instead of blindfolding yourself.

 

It is apparent, with each new post he makes, that he hasn't read any of the responses to that question. Or else, he simply isn't getting the answer he wants and/or already believes.

I'm sorry i must have missed it. Can you repost it. I may not be able to get to it though until later since i have to go soon.

[ContraBardus]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

 

you would expect? who cares what you would expect. Your expectations and reality do not seem to match very often from what I can gather.

Do you think if atheism was as popular as Christianity was during the past 2000 years we would have charities and schools for the poor?

 

Yes. In fact, there would be more of them, and they would be better run. Atheist wouldn't waste money printing Bibles and teaching scripture. They wouldn't withhold food and medicine and use them to blackmail poor and desperate people into converting to their religion. [Yes, missionaries do this. You want food or help, you need to sit through Bible classes as well. They'll give you a taste, but if you want to keep coming, you need to submit to Jesus.]

 

Atheist wouldn't spend church funds building giant temples, gold lined altars, and buying up real estate all over the world for large elaborate and needlessly expensive structures filled with expensive and unnecessary materials like Gold, silver, marble. Churches are filled with expensive artwork and statues.

 

So, yes. There would be schools for the poor and charities. More of them, spending more on actually helping them, and they'd be better run and giving more help because of a lack of wasteful spending practices such as printing Bibles and building Churches.

[Mike D]

The OP's question isn't appropriate.

Agreed. It's just one of a thousand apples to oranges comparisons we get from Christians all the time.

 

And we'll probably get a thousand more.

[Mike D]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

I would bet that disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is more popular than Christianity and I can't say much good has come from that disbelief either.

The fact is that much good has happened in the name of Christ over the last 2000 years than there has been for the tooth fairy or anything else you care to mention.

You're completely missing the point.

 

Disbelief in something is not an advocacy for good.

 

Disbelief is.... disbelief.

 

Period.

And what good does your disbelief lead you to?

Disbelief doesn't lead to good. It isn't supposed to lead to good. It isn't supposed to do anything.

 

Disbelief is disbelief!

[Kuroikaze]

Huh? Are you saying the culture of the Jews in germany were wicked at the time of Hitler? Just because Hitler may have claimed to be doing God's work does not make it so. We would need to see what he was using to justify this before we can say he was doing God's work. Joshua certainly had good reasons to destroy the Cananites.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me?

 

The point is that just because some guy claims "X" group of people is evil and should be killed does not make it so. Joshua had no better reason to kill the Canaanites than Hitler did. There is no evidence outside of bibilcal claims that they engaged in child sacrifice on a large scale, it is no more believable than Hitlers claims about all the evils Jews were supposedly doing.

 

He did it because they were in his way, and then he justified his actions by saying "god told me to do it"

 

My point is that in this case the Jewish leaders were no better than hitler.

 

Of course Hitler was not doing gods work, god does not exist. In both cases he is just a convenient excuse to justify stupid actions.

[centauri]

According to the Old Testament, the Canaanites and other tribes in the land widely practiced child sacrifice, incest, bestiality, and other behaviors that almost everyone in history, including today, rightly regard as unspeakably, grossly immoral. For this reason this nation needed to be exterminated.

Also according to the Old Testament, the tribe of Judah did more evil than the Canaanites.

Incest was practiced by the Biblical first family.

According to the New Testament, child sacrifice was practiced by God.

Many of the unspeakable practices you refer to are evidenced in the chosen people as well as the nations that the chosen people were ordered to wipe out.

[ContraBardus]

And what good does your disbelief lead you to?

 

You've missed the point. I'll make this simple.

 

Belief does not lead you to do good. It's other factors that you've been lead to believe are caused by belief, even though they are not. You're giving belief credit that it does not deserve for things it has nothing to do with.

 

We are good because we were taught to be good people. The Bible had nothing to do with it, nor did any belief in God.

 

It was our culture, society, and upbringing that gave us these things. God is just what takes the credit, even though it has nothing to do with it.

 

There is plenty of evidence for this, as Charity and good behavior are clearly not exclusive to Christianity.

 

We do not need to think 'God wants me to' to be nice and charitable to others. We do it on it's own merits, and do not need to be prodded by a 'belief' to do so. Neither do you, you've just been fooled into thinking that you do.

 

If you stopped believing in God, you would be no less sympathetic, nor would you find the suffering of others any less distressing. It's because we're all humans, and we all have empathy for each other. We do not need God to foster this, it's part of who we are, and he's got nothing to do with it.

[Shyone]

If atheism was as popular as Christianity over the centuries i would not expect to see much if any good from it.

 

you would expect? who cares what you would expect. Your expectations and reality do not seem to match very often from what I can gather.

Do you think if atheism was as popular as Christianity was during the past 2000 years we would have charities and schools for the poor?

Yes, of course.

 

You don't know much about humanism I suppose, and while there are some Christian, Muslim and Hindu humanists, there are certainly a lot of secular humanists (a subset of atheists). The passage below addresses education. The link will also demonstrate secular humanists' dedication to charity.

 

From the Secular Humanist Declaration:

Education

In our view, education should be the essential method of building humane, free, and democratic societies. The aims of education are many: the transmission of knowledge; training for occupations, careers, and democratic citizenship; and the encouragement of moral growth. Among its vital purposes should also be an attempt to develop the capacity for critical intelligence in both the individual and the community. Unfortunately, the schools are today being increasingly replaced by the mass media as the primary institutions of public information and education. Although the electronic media provide unparalleled opportunities for extending cultural enrichment and enjoyment, and powerful learning opportunities, there has been a serious misdirection of their purposes. In totalitarian societies, the media serve as the vehicle of propaganda and indoctrination. In democratic societies television, radio, films, and mass publishing too often cater to the lowest common denominator and have become banal wastelands. There is a pressing need to elevate standards of taste and appreciation. Of special concern to secularists is the fact that the media (particularly in the United States) are inordinately dominated by a pro religious bias. The views of preachers, faith healers, and religious hucksters go largely unchallenged, and the secular outlook is not given an opportunity for a fair hearing. We believe that television directors and producers have an obligation to redress the balance and revise their programming. Indeed, there is a broader task that all those who believe in democratic secular humanist values will recognize, namely, the need to embark upon a long term program of public education and enlightenment concerning the relevance of the secular outlook to the human condition.

[godlessgrrl]

Incidentally, someone mentioned Bill Gates pretty early on. For the record:

 

Bill Gates is certainly agnostic, and probably a soft atheist. The same can be said of Warren Buffett. These godless gents are among the wealthiest people on the planet. Both have given more of their wealth to charitable causes than I'd wager most theists ever have; in fact in 2006 they joined forces to do so, when Buffett gave some 85% or so of his money to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Source

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled discourse.

[ContraBardus]

Its possible that the reason infants were also killed is that this would have stopped the Israelites from acheiving victory in totally destroying this wicked culture and thereby stopping the spread of this evil.

 

Hitler used the same logic to justify the killing of the jews. Their culture was wicked, all the worlds ills were caused by them, letting them live would be immoral. He even claimed that he was doing god's work.

Huh? Are you saying the culture of the Jews in germany were wicked at the time of Hitler? Just because Hitler may have claimed to be doing God's work does not make it so. We would need to see what he was using to justify this before we can say he was doing God's work. Joshua certainly had good reasons to destroy the Cananites.

 

You know damn well that's not what anyone was saying.

 

Pope Pius XII certainly thought Hitler was doing God's work. He showed up for his Birthday every year, and the two were good friends. Hitler's speeches were filled with pro-christian proclamations. In fact, his views about the Jews in Germany were a result of his Christian education. He attended seminary school and his beliefs are based on what he learned there. There was a lot of bad blood between Christians and Jews in that era of history, and Hitler was a result of that.

 

What 'good reason' did Joshua have to commit Genocide? The Cannanites were on the land they wanted. That was it. There's no mention of any immoralities or other problems caused by them. They were just in the way, that's not justification.

[Ouroboros]

Are there any organization out there that is based on non-Christian views and is doing altruistic, voluntary work?

 

Yes, there is one in particular.

 

It's name is: EX-CHRISTIAN.NET

 

The moderators (including me) are doing this for free, and we do it willingly, and the purpose of the website is to give support to people who recently left Christianity (or religion) behind.

 

So there you have it. It exists. It's here. And you're in the smack middle of it but can't see it.