Im A Christian Again

[Ouroboros]

I just don't see how someone could genuinely realize that Christianity is a man-made construct and then turn around a re-embrace it as divine truth.

 

Justyna, I still think you were never a True Ex-Christian™.

I'm starting to think she's a poser.

 

She has a degree in psychology, an MBA, and she writes like shit. She has no ability to think logically, even though part of an MBA and psychology would entail classes in reasoning and logical fallacies. Methinks he/she is pretending.

[Moxie]

I have read the Bible. And I dont sit and dwell on what God did that I dont understand. You are right, I do fear Him. Im not going to question WHY He did things. It does not even bother me what He did. Hes God. Im not sure why you guys are letting these things keep you from Him.

 

 

Now let's replace your god with "spouse" and see how it sounds.

 

I have read the Bible. And I dont sit and dwell on what my spouse did that I dont understand. You are right, I do fear him. Im not going to question WHY he did things. It does not even bother me what he did. Hes my spouse.

 

I'm sure you'd tell whoever said this to get away from his/her spouse. Well, hopefully you would.

[Ouroboros]

Please dont go there with me. I never told you your kids are going to hell or that they are Gods enemys.

Correction: "Please, don't go there with me. I never told you your kids are going to hell, or that they are God's enemies."

 

You should demand to get the tuition back.

[Antlerman]

I just don't see how someone could genuinely realize that Christianity is a man-made construct and then turn around a re-embrace it as divine truth.

 

Justyna, I still think you were never a True Ex-Christian™.

I'm starting to think she's a poser.

 

She has a degree in psychology, an MBA, and she writes like shit. She has no ability to think logically, even though part of an MBA and psychology would entail classes in reasoning and logical fallacies. Methinks he/she is pretending.

I vacillate on that. I don't think she is a fraud. There is a difference between being 'book smart' and 'street smart', so to speak. That she can pass test in a class setting, and frankly even somebody who is 'brilliant' academically, does not mean that they will apply it critically to something like religious thought. They are compartmentalized, and a different principle applies for them in that context. All this to support something that has nothing to do with academics for them. It's their social, cultural worldviews and emotional selves wrapped up in a symbolic system. She, and many like them are living at odds with their reasoning minds to support this out-dated system because of simple convenience.

 

In short, I've looked at how she's talking and there's too much detail and consistent mental thought processes going on for her to be a fraud. If she is, she deserves the prize of all time for the act. But I don't hear that shrewd of thought going on here. She's just emotionally flipping the switch off when it comes to this way of thinking.

[Ouroboros]

Look, we need to just let this thread die. Her re-conversion is her own personal business, and no matter what we say it won't make a difference to her. Let's just lock this thread and leave it.

We used to do that in the past, but there were a lot of complaints because some people considered it still useful for discussion. It's up to each and every member to make that decision.

 

This is turning into an insult on Islam, a religion that is completely unrelated to the thread itself and the website.

Nah. She's an insult to us, but she's welcome to stay and continue to reveal her ignorance and stupidity.

 

And honestly Justyna, if you had any sense at all, you would leave this forum and not come back. You're ruining your testimony, making other people mad, and ultimately, making the non-believers here sink their feet further into ground they stand upon.

THAT I totally agree to. Her preaching only makes it worse.

 

If God exists, and we are at the point in our lives where God wants us, then she is fighting against God's will. She's the one in disobedience, not us.

[Ouroboros]

I vacillate on that. I don't think she is a fraud. There is a difference between being 'book smart' and 'street smart', so to speak. That she can pass test in a class setting, and frankly even somebody who is 'brilliant' academically, does not mean that they will apply it critically to something like religious thought.

True.

 

But I've had classes in psychology, economics, sociology, economics, and business management, and she doesn't show that she has learned anything from these classes.

 

They are compartmentalized, and a different principle applies for them in that context. All this to support something that has nothing to do with academics for them. It's their social, cultural worldviews and emotional selves wrapped up in a symbolic system. She, and many like them are living at odds with their reasoning minds to support this out-dated system because of simple convenience.

Okay. I'll accept that. I'm just dumbfounded that she hasn't grasped anything about conceptualize or synthesize the information she got from the classes. I mean, some of of the fallacies she's making are classical examples in the classes for reasoning. I actually think I've had at least three different classes pointing out "hasty generalization" as a fallacy. Yet she does that, not about her own religion, but about us and all humanity.

 

In short, I've looked at how she's talking and there's too much detail and consistent mental thought processes going on for her to be a fraud. If she is, she deserves the prize of all time for the act. But I don't hear that shrewd of thought going on here. She's just emotionally flipping the switch off when it comes to this way of thinking.

Okay. I'm just surprised that she got a degree in psychology and business at 28, yet she shows lack of comprehension in some of the areas where these degrees put a lot of effort and focus into.

 

But you could be right. I'm just expressing my concern and suspicion.

 

Perhaps she's just like Rayskidude, who has degrees and even worked overseas in some fairly advanced stuff. Or LNC who is working towards his second masters. They're not stupid, but somehow... they're still stupid (in a sense).

[Vigile]

I just don't see how someone could genuinely realize that Christianity is a man-made construct and then turn around a re-embrace it as divine truth.

 

Justyna, I still think you were never a True Ex-Christian™.

I'm starting to think she's a poser.

 

She has a degree in psychology, an MBA, and she writes like shit. She has no ability to think logically, even though part of an MBA and psychology would entail classes in reasoning and logical fallacies. Methinks he/she is pretending.

I vacillate on that. I don't think she is a fraud. There is a difference between being 'book smart' and 'street smart', so to speak. That she can pass test in a class setting, and frankly even somebody who is 'brilliant' academically, does not mean that they will apply it critically to something like religious thought. They are compartmentalized, and a different principle applies for them in that context. All this to support something that has nothing to do with academics for them. It's their social, cultural worldviews and emotional selves wrapped up in a symbolic system. She, and many like them are living at odds with their reasoning minds to support this out-dated system because of simple convenience.

 

In short, I've looked at how she's talking and there's too much detail and consistent mental thought processes going on for her to be a fraud. If she is, she deserves the prize of all time for the act. But I don't hear that shrewd of thought going on here. She's just emotionally flipping the switch off when it comes to this way of thinking.

 

I don't doubt she's the real deal as she sounds exactly like the people I used to go to church with. I do doubt her education though. She's doing much more than compartmentalizing, she's utterly ignorant and childlike in her world view. Think about other xians who have been here, like Buddy. They jumped through a lot of hoops to hold onto their faith, but clearly had an education. If she's being honest I have to wonder about the accreditation of her school(s). She might be going to a school like Bob Jones.

[Ouroboros]

I don't doubt she's the real deal as she sounds exactly like the people I used to go to church with. I do doubt her education though. She's doing much more than compartmentalizing, she's utterly ignorant and childlike in her world view. Think about other xians who have been here, like Buddy. They jumped through a lot of hoops to hold onto their faith, but clearly had an education. If she's being honest I have to wonder about the accreditation of her school(s). She might be going to a school like Bob Jones.

True. That could be the other explanation.

 

At least in the discussion with Buddy, LNC, and Ray, they know what fallacies are. But with her, I feel like we're talking to a teenager in middle school.

 

---

 

And if anyone thinks it's weird that we're talking about her in the open, I don't see a problem with it since she hasn't answered my posts in the last week or so. She most likely put me on ignore and won't see my comments anyway.

[Paganesque]

Please dont go there with me. I never told you your kids are going to hell or that they are Gods enemys.

Correction: "Please, don't go there with me. I never told you your kids are going to hell, or that they are God's enemies."

 

You should demand to get the tuition back.

 

 

Ouroboros,

That was classic! Thanks for the laugh. I doubt she'll get it though. Her grammar and spelling pretty much confirms that she is lying about having an MBA. Either that, or she was taking care of her professor if you know what I mean. lol

[Ouroboros]

Ouroboros,

That was classic! Thanks for the laugh. I doubt she'll get it though. Her grammar and spelling pretty much confirms that she is lying about having an MBA. Either that, or she was taking care of her professor if you know what I mean. lol

You're welcome. I doubt, however, that she'll see my post. She probably put me on ignore.

 

I did a research paper too, for my MBA (I'm working on that degree), and the rubric contained a specific section for "logic and reasoning." It was at least a grade point just for that section.

[bdp]

Justyna said she doesn't have anyone on ignore.

[Ouroboros]

Justyna said she doesn't have anyone on ignore.

Then I guess she just ignores whatever she doesn't like.

[Phanta]

Justyna said she doesn't have anyone on ignore.

Then I guess she just ignores whatever she doesn't like.

 

Donna,

 

I have read the Bible. And I dont sit and dwell on what God did that I dont understand. You are right, I do fear Him. Im not going to question WHY He did things. It does not even bother me what He did. Hes God. Im not sure why you guys are letting these things keep you from Him

 

She's got a mental block. No need to use the forum block.

 

Phanta

[Mr. Neil]

Rose-tinted glasses have the curious property of blocking logic.

[Seeking]

Justyna said she doesn't have anyone on ignore.

Then I guess she just ignores whatever she doesn't like.

Yeah, she never responded to a single one of my posts on this thread!

[Mr. Neil]

To be fair, she was overwhelmed, so she was going to have to skip some of them. On the other hand, none of her answers were any good, so it's not even like we can give her points on the answers she did provide.

[Ouroboros]

She's got a mental block. No need to use the forum block.

Innate ignore function.

[Paganesque]

Justyna said she doesn't have anyone on ignore.

Then I guess she just ignores whatever she doesn't like.

Yeah, she never responded to a single one of my posts on this thread!

 

 

She only responded to one of my posts, in which I was showing how offended I was about a claim she made. Her response was that I "proved her point" by being angry and using curse words. lmao

[Ouroboros]

To be fair, she was overwhelmed, so she was going to have to skip some of them. On the other hand, none of her answers were any good, so it's not even like we can give her points on the answers she did provide.

And she was asked the same question by many members, without any response, but you're right, she's probably overwhelmed. Too many responses, and she can't answer them all. In effect, that means she has to ignore a majority of the posts. Since she does, I don't see a problem talking in public. It's her choice to respond.

 

If she learned how to write a research paper, she should know something about giving proper support to a claim. She makes a claim, states it as a "fact," and yet doesn't provide proper support nor warrants. She qualifies her fact claim with a value statement, which obviously proves that her statement is a claim of value, not claim of fact. She is challenged by many to provide evidence, and she still refuse to do it. Strange. If she's for real, and she is honest about everything she says, I must agree with Burnedout that the school system is failing the students today.

[Phanta]

I found another interesting part of the Old Testement, Justyna. Numbers, Chapter 5. The bit about the magical curse for adultery with the bitter water ritual. Sounds like witchcraft to me. Incantations, potions, etc., killing people

 

Sounds like the ancient Jews believed in charms and curses. It's very similar to witchcraft. Lots of Pagan behavior in what God tells Moses to do.

 

The Adultery Test

11Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

 

12"Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'If any man's wife (A)goes astray and is unfaithful to him,

 

13and a man has (B)intercourse with her and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband and she is undetected, although she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act,

 

14if a spirit of ©jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has not defiled herself,

 

15the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as an offering for her one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, (D)a reminder of iniquity.

 

16'Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the LORD,

 

17and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.

 

18'The priest shall then have the woman stand before the LORD and let the hair of the woman's head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse.

 

19'The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you and if you have not (E)gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse;

 

20if you, however, have (F)gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you"

 

21(then the priest shall have the woman (G)swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), "the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people by the LORD'S making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell;

 

22and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away." And the woman (H)shall say, "Amen. Amen."

 

23'The priest shall then write these curses on a scroll, and he shall wash them off into the water of bitterness.

 

24'Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness.

 

25'The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and he shall wave the grain offering before the LORD and bring it to the altar;

 

26and (I)the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial offering and offer it up in smoke on the altar, and afterward he shall make the woman drink the water.

 

27'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become (J)a curse among her people.

 

28'But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children.

 

29'This is the law of jealousy: when a wife, being under the authority of her husband, (K)goes astray and defiles herself,

 

30or when a spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife, he shall then make the woman stand before the LORD, and the priest shall apply all this law to her.

 

31'Moreover, the man will be free from guilt, but that woman shall (L)bear her guilt.

 

From the American Standard Bible.

 

Weird magic, curses, and incantations! What a big surprise, considering how anti-magic and anti-pagan the Bible is.

 

Well...weird only if you look at it as the Word of God.

 

Phanta

[Ouroboros]

Good find, Phanta.

[Phanta]

Surely she is overwhelmed. I always find it of interest, though, to see what, then, a visitor chooses from the mass of input to focus his or her attention on.

 

Phanta

[Overcame Faith]

Those bible verses sound like the test for witchcraft during the inquisition. Dunk the accused in water and if he or she drowns he or she is innocent. However, if he or she does not drown then he or she is guilty and is to be put to death. The bitter water sounds like some sort of poison.

[Phanta]

Good find, Phanta.

 

Thanks! I read about it in this thread.

 

It struck me along the lines I was talking about yesterday...Judaism and the Torah growing from Pagan roots. And here is one of those instances where God is telling people to be very Pagany. It's yet another illustration of how what God dictates as absolute truth changes in accordance with the development over centuries of human understanding. "God" doesn't change. "God" didn't say these things. It's merely what humans were trying on for a time, falsely determined as directive or instruction from God.

 

Phanta

[Ouroboros]

Surely she is overwhelmed. I always find it of interest, though, to see what, then, a visitor chooses from the mass of input to focus his or her attention on.

True. It kind of reveals what kind of priorities or arguments they gravitate to. She prefers to respond with accusations and guilt. "All atheists are murderers" and "you are all going to Hell!" seems to be some of her favorites.