Guest Valk0010 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 And also think about it, as much time as the israelites spent in israel if you believe the biblical accounts, you would figure the pagan beliefs would have either replaced earlier Jewish beliefs or been somehow absorbed into there beliefs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Stevo, If I am so ignorant about Christianity then why am I still a Christian? And why are you no longer a Christian? I must be doing something right. What I do works for me. I am not saying everyone needs to be the type of Christian I am. But the Bible says that everyone needs to come to Jesus etc. The reason you don't know anything about christianity is because you're too chicken shit scared that you'll find out it's all bullshit. If you had really deconverted, you would have gone down this path, realised it was bullshit, and then realised you no longer believed in it. You are making your own version of christianity up as you go along. This is evident from your insistence that the god of abraham (the one you worship) is not the same as the god the moslems worship. You're dolefully ignorant of your own religion. That is why you don't see how faulty it is -- you are avoiding the truth by just ignoring it. Have you actually read the bible from genesis to revelation? Without just picking the bits your pastor tells you to read? Because I have, and it's a pretty bad advertisement for a supposedly loving god. It is ripped off from the works of other cultures. Your god is a bastardised version of an ancient war god invented by ancient people to boost their morale in battle. No more or less. If you want to post here, you should have at least the integrity to actually look at the evidence we are presenting, instead of poking your fingers in your ears and hoping we will all go away. That is the behaviour of a child, not a grown adult. You want the privilege of posting here and being listened to by adults? Behave like one, and actually learn something about what we are saying, without just dismissing it as lies because it doesn't match your precious worldview. For all you know, you could actually be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Ohh and another thing, there is no reason i know of for a religion to be henotheistic at all with what im saying about going from polytheism to monotheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 You act like being a Christian is easy. Its not....you have to have faith, you have to be strong, overcome persecussion etc. Its not easy, you know you were a Christian once. Its not the easy way out. The reason I dont go back and dig up some stuff is because history books have been altered. So why should I believe everything that is written? When I was doing research for my MBA, I could find just as many articles and journals to support my claims as I did ones that did not. You can find anything you want now adays. And you better believe Satan has his hand in this making sure he does everything so that people dont believe God but him. He loves it when you leave Jesus and accept his theologies. He lives for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 You act like being a Christian is easy. Its not....you have to have faith, you have to be strong, overcome persecussion etc. Its not easy, you know you were a Christian once. Its not the easy way out. The reason I dont go back and dig up some stuff is because history books have been altered. So why should I believe everything that is written? When I was doing research for my MBA, I could find just as many articles and journals to support my claims as I did ones that did not. You can find anything you want now adays. And you better believe Satan has his hand in this making sure he does everything so that people dont believe God but him. He loves it when you leave Jesus and accept his theologies. He lives for it. I would put the bible in the same catagory, on what you said about books. Btw, if you dont have solid evidence, what you have left. I want evidence not faith. Btw not once have i said anything about you bein a xtian. There is academic dispute, its up to you to make your conclusion and not just give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 You act like being a Christian is easy. Its not....you have to have faith, you have to be strong, overcome persecussion etc. Its not easy, you know you were a Christian once. Its not the easy way out. The reason I dont go back and dig up some stuff is because history books have been altered. So why should I believe everything that is written? When I was doing research for my MBA, I could find just as many articles and journals to support my claims as I did ones that did not. You can find anything you want now adays. And you better believe Satan has his hand in this making sure he does everything so that people dont believe God but him. He loves it when you leave Jesus and accept his theologies. He lives for it. So the textbooks have been altered, have they? You ask why you should believe everything that is written, but you ignore that caution when it comes to your bible because you're only looking for information that supports your belief, and deliberately excluding that information which contradicts it. I have a good bullshit detector. I know that if a majority of sources from a specific time support each other, there is a good chance they are right. There are hundreds of sources from antiquity which support what I know. Some are a bit suspicious. Some aren't. Even though I can't be one hundred percent sure that their version is accurate, if enough other documents agree, there is a good chance that the information is accurate. All you are relying on is the bible. You haven't looked at these other sources. Sources like the Koran, the Hadith, the works of the philosopher Rabia, The Pliny's (Elder and Younger) Seneca, the works of the Greeks that predate christianity, like Heraclitis, Aristotle, Socrates and Plato, Herodotus, and countless others. You just brush away thousands of years of history and philosophical thought with the statement "textbooks get altered". Do you realise how many times the bible has been altered? Do me a favour and read the last few verses of Malachi. The OT was never supposed to be added to, and then the christians tacked on the New Testament. But I bet you've never read that bit, right? What about the different versions of the ten commandments? What about the constant inconsistencies in the bible? They all point to a book that has been altered and doctored by people who wanted to change what it said. Do some reading and get back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Vixen and Vigile, Dont you two have something more productive to do? Im not being mean, I am just asking since your comments are mean, rude and without any thought. Can't speak for Vix, but there is plenty of thought in my comments. You just aren't seeing it through your Jesus goggles. You're the one who is being rude. You are a guest here and you come in here telling us how immoral we are and how we'd commit murder at the drop of a hat. Meanwhile, you have the moral aptitude of a character in Bizzaro World, insofar as you consider cursing bad but you're god's cruel nature good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Vixen and Vigile, Dont you two have something more productive to do? Im not being mean, I am just asking since your comments are mean, rude and without any thought. I'm not the one that worships an evil, misogynist and barbaric deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 He is not evil because we do not understand why He did the things He did. Remember He is Holy, in the OT He has reasons as to why animals had to be sacrificed etc. He has a reason for all this, I am sure. Just cause we dont understand everything He has ever done, doesnt make Him wrong or evil. And yeah I will admit that I love Him with all my heart, and so when you love someone, its different. You sort of dont notice the "bad" things. And when I quote the word bad, it is a relative word. But I think it goes both ways. When I do something wrong or bad, He forigves me and I have favor with Him still since He sees Jesus' blood on me. It goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Yeah, mass murder of first born babies is kinda hard to overlook even for someone you love. Throwing children in an eternal fire for not loving you back....kind of an evil act. Ordering followers to slit pregnant women open and rape virgins of conquered people...not high up on my list of benevolent commands. Having a couple bears rip up kids to shreds for teasing a prophet, hardly seems forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 No its not. Dont tell me who I worhsip and who I dont. Yet you, earlier in this thread, were trying to tell us what we believe: You all have pretty much made up your minds that you do not want to believe in Him anymore. Most of you say that you cant believe again because you are unable to anymore. I do not agree with that statement. You do not believe because you do not want to. You let the world and all its lies into your hearts and into your heads and so it has complicated things. You are a hypocrite Justyna. You do it to us but as soon as someone does it to you, you cry foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 He is not evil because we do not understand why He did the things He did. Remember He is Holy, in the OT He has reasons as to why animals had to be sacrificed etc. He has a reason for all this, I am sure. Just cause we dont understand everything He has ever done, doesnt make Him wrong or evil. And yeah I will admit that I love Him with all my heart, and so when you love someone, its different. You sort of dont notice the "bad" things. And when I quote the word bad, it is a relative word. But I think it goes both ways. When I do something wrong or bad, He forigves me and I have favor with Him still since He sees Jesus' blood on me. It goes both ways. You clearly have not read the entire bible. Not only are you uneducated about your own religion, you're also dolefully ignorant of the contents of the book that is supposed to be the word of your god. "He has a reason for all this, I am sure." You are avoiding the obvious question. The reason he does it is because either he is a malevolent monster who enjoys the suffering of humanity, or he doesn't exist. Make the jump. Why does he have to have a good reason? so you can sleep at night? What if he doesn't have a reason at all? What if he doesn't exist and it's just a random event? Your god killed his entire creation, with the exception of one family and a few animals, because they fucked up, just like he engineered them to. That is evil. Vix speaks the truth. THe animal sacrifices in the Old Testament are NOTHING to the cruelty meted out to human beings. You're just ignoring those parts fo the bible, or you're pretending they are not there. If you were reading the above paragraph about ANOTHER god, you would be outraged. But because you believe in your version of god, you're unable to see the serious discrepancy between your 'god of love' and the malevolent monster of the Old Testament. You can't reconcile the evil acts ascribed to your god in the old testament with what you believe about salvation, so you're just ignoring the bits you don't like. Just because I don't understand why your god did something doesn't change the fact that according to the bible, he did some pretty horrible things. They are evil fruit of an evil god, who is either evil, or an invention of primitive men. Your god (if he exists) did some things that are OUTRIGHT EVIL. He invented evil. He says so in Isaiah. Just because you want to rationalise it away doesn't mean that those things are not evil. Just because you pretend that maybe god had a special reason to commit such horrible acts against humanity doesn't mean that those acts are somehow made less evil. Endorsing the raping of women as spoils of war is evil. Forcing rape victims to marry their rapist as his punishment is evil. "Maybe god had a good reason" is a cop out. How can you be a good, moral person, and endorse such acts against humanity by saying that if god did it it is okay? Is it okay for you to kill a child if you think god tells you to? Is it okay for you to sexually assault someone if you think god tells you? Does that make those acts any less evil? If you believe that these evil acts are misinterpreted evidence of god's love and greatness, you are a sick, evil human being with some pretty warped morals. And to think you believe atheists have no moral guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 OnceConvinced, I think it is different because you guys admit that you dont worship Jesus...you are ex-Christians. There is no debate over that. I say that I worship Jesus, and someone tells me that I worship Allah when I know that I dont. But nevertheless, I do see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 He is not evil because we do not understand why He did the things He did. Remember He is Holy, in the OT He has reasons as to why animals had to be sacrificed etc. He has a reason for all this, I am sure. Just cause we dont understand everything He has ever done, doesnt make Him wrong or evil. It is the same moral debauchery that I have heard so often from xians. Was it Thumbelina who said the same? That mass murder is still some kind of love and that god will have some good reasons for torture, murder and rape. I am amazed that your moral compass can be so destroyed. Xians have a real problem with morals. The idea that xians rule the world is terrrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Donna, The OT was BEFORE Jesus came and was sacrificed for our sins. Yeah God wiped away everyone except a few in the flood. They were not obeying Him after He told them over and over to listen to Him. Its called tough love...and the people learned, the hard way. If they just listened to Him in the first place, then they would not have found themselves in those circumstances. God sent them sooooooooooo many warnings and prophets to turn them around, they didnt listen. They hardened their hearts against Him. In the New Testament things are different because God sees Jesus' blood and sacrifice. I am not going to try to defend everything God did, because I do not understand everything and why He did it that way and not another way. Like I said, I love Him a lot so I give Him the benefit of the doubt. I am sure He will explain it to us oneday in heaven. Also I do not think we as humans can understand and comprehend if He was to explain His reasons to us now. We just cant. I could be spending eternity in hell, but I wont cause He sent His Son. Who am I to complain to Him about why and how He does things? No one. When I create my own universe, then I can call the shots. Why do you guys have such a hard time submiting to Him? Hes trying to save your lives...but no you want nothing to do with it. YOu want it your way, not His. We did not create ourselves. He created us....we need to accept this fact first. None of us picked to be here. He picked us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Yeah, those evil babies and small children before the flood, ignoring god. They totally hardened their hearts against god and deserved drowning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Like lately He has been showing me that He is a God of War. That is really hard for me to understand since my whole life all Ive ever known Him as is as being a loving Father. Its hard for me to see Him in this way. But He is a God of War as well. He will fight and destory His enemies. He will judge the nations oneday.....we dont like these qualities about God. We just like His mercy, His grace, His love etc. Why cant you just wake up and see that we are only here for just a moment? A second, then we are gone. Whats a hundred years? I remember being 18, now I am 28. Ten years fleeeeeeeeeeew by soooooooooo fast. This is life, it is so fragile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Like lately He has been showing me that He is a God of War. That is really hard for me to understand since my whole life all Ive ever known Him as is as being a loving Father. Its hard for me to see Him in this way. But He is a God of War as well. He will fight and destory His enemies. He will judge the nations oneday.....we dont like these qualities about God. We just like His mercy, His grace, His love etc. So again my question (you have ignored once) WHO are his enemies? Am I his enemy? My kids? My wife? All muslims? Please answer the question. And move away from the big word "His enemies" to the single person. You could not expect people to kill people but you can expect people to kill "Jews" or "Unbelievers". So WHO are gods enemies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Donna, The OT was BEFORE Jesus came and was sacrificed for our sins. Yeah God wiped away everyone except a few in the flood. They were not obeying Him after He told them over and over to listen to Him. Its called tough love...and the people learned, the hard way. If they just listened to Him in the first place, then they would not have found themselves in those circumstances. God sent them sooooooooooo many warnings and prophets to turn them around, they didnt listen. They hardened their hearts against Him. In the New Testament things are different because God sees Jesus' blood and sacrifice. I am not going to try to defend everything God did, because I do not understand everything and why He did it that way and not another way. Like I said, I love Hiis m a lot so I give Him the benefit of the doubt. I am sure He will explain it to us oneday in heaven. Also I do not think we as humans can understand and comprehend if He was to explain His reasons to us now. We just cant. I could be spending eternity in hell, but I wont cause He sent His Son. Who am I to complain to Him about why and how He does things? No one. When I create my own universe, then I can call the shots. Why do you guys have such a hard time submiting to Him? Hes trying to save your lives...but no you want nothing to do with it. YOu want it your way, not His. We did not create ourselves. He created us....we need to accept this fact first. None of us picked to be here. He picked us. "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god." That's the opening lines of the gospel of john. If your bible is telling you the truth, then your jesus has always existed. I thought your god was the same yesterday, today and forever. Why, then, is he such a humanity hating malevolent monster in the OT, and then a homosexual hating, woman hating, 'god of love' in the NT? He's schizophrenic. He is still the same deity, isn't he? The apparent birth and death of jesus doesn't make the original god a completely different god, does it? You're tying yourself in knots trying to rationalise this and explain it to us, but you're floundering hopelessly. Saying that "Oh, that was the OT, jesus fixed that" is a cop out. It says in Matthew that jesus did not come to do away with the old laws. That's out of his own mouth. You really have never read your bible, have you? The old laws are still relevant, as far as jesus was concerned. He openly said it. He EXPLICITLY said it. But you're ignoring that so you can sleep at night. The old law still stands. Maybe you should read your bible and find out what it actually says, rather than just making it up as you go along, because I expect better from someone who apparently has a university education. Find out what your bible says before you come here and try to argue for god. You'd have a lot more credibility if you knew what you were talking about. So killing human beings for things he engineered them to do (remember, he knew they would do these things before they did it) is NOT TOUGH LOVE. That is genocide. That's like saying Stalin killed a few million people because it was 'tough love', and they were not doing as he wanted them to do. That's like saying Hitler killed all the jews because they would not kill themselves and remove themselves from his perfect version of Europe, and it was Tough Love. You honestly don't see how horrible that is, do you? Or maybe you do, but you're too dishonest to admit it. When you create your own universe, will you kill people for things you engineer them to do? Will you have some enormous and extravagant plan that involves starving innocent children, letting people die of horrible diseases like cancer, letting people die of exposure, sending horrible weather events that kill thousands and leave millions homeless, alone, and vulnerable to starvation and disease? If you had a heart, you wouldn't be able to create a world like that. But your god did. Sort of says a lot about your god. If he's the most ominipotent, omniscient, and benevolent god you believe in, why would he let those people suffer? There IS no good reason. Honestly. The reason you don't understand why he does it isn't because there is some enormous, complicated plan you don't get. It's because it's either the random acts of a godless universe, or your god is a malevolent monster who hates humanity. But you don't dare go down that path, because you're too scared. Deconverted my arse. If you'd ever contemplated any of these things, you'd never have gone back to christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Well I think God's enemies are those that do not follow Him and do not accept His Son. Thats what the Bible says...so I am going to stick with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Donna, I have read the Bible. And I dont sit and dwell on what God did that I dont understand. You are right, I do fear Him. Im not going to question WHY He did things. It does not even bother me what He did. Hes God. Im not sure why you guys are letting these things keep you from Him In the OT the people had rules and regulations to follow...and they had to follow it strickly to the "T." When Jesus came, you are right that He did not come to take away the laws...but now we can keep His ways and live by His grace. If we mess up, we have His grace that covers us. And you guys say He is unloving and cruel. Hes not. Hes very loving. He made a way where there was no way. The walls that could never come down, came tumbling down. But you guys have this hatred toward Him. Which I get it, you have been hurt, disappointed, and felt abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Why do you guys have such a hard time submiting to Him? Why are you still asking questions like this? We've already told you, it's because we don't believe in him. We are UNABLE to believe in him. You can't submit to someone you don't believe in. You might as well be asking why we have such a hard time submitting to Emperor Pulpetine or Lord Sauron. The others are right. The God of the bible is a truly evil, malevolent being and the biblical reference mentioned so far are only scratching the surface. Perhaps you read a different bible to the rest of us? Even if this God was real, many of us would have as much trouble worshiping him as you would Allah or even Adolf Hitler. God himself admits that he is the one who created evil: "I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7) "Shall there be evil in a city and the Lord hath not done it?" (Amos 3:4) "But evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem." (Micah 1:12) "Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil." (Job 2:10) The bible also tells us that evil spirits come from God: 1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him. 1Sa 16:15 Saul's attendants said to him, “See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you Hes trying to save your lives... YOu might as well try to claim that Superman is trying to save our lives. There is no evidence whatsoever to show that there is any supernatural being trying to save our lives. I found out through thirty years of deligent searching and serving God... 30 years in a relationship with this so-called God that he was not there. He definitely wasn't trying to save my life that's for sure! but no you want nothing to do with it. Definitely not the case for me. If Jesus came to me and said "Hey OC, I really am real and I really do love you,' I'd welcome him back with open arms. I'd be happy to say "Hey Jesus, you seem like an evil malevolent bastard to me, but I'll put those Christian goggles back on again." I loved being a Christian, but one thing I can't do is try to fool myself into believing nonsense. Evidence is required now. And I'm not going to get any of that because your God clearly is non existant. YOu want it your way, not His. Once again, not true for me. All I expected from God was to keep his promises he made in the bible. But he was unable to do that, being non-existant. If God proved he existed, I'd have no choice but to obey. Especially if I don't want to be tortured by him for all eternity. If anyone was threatened with that for real, you better believe they'll obey him. The problem is there is no evidence that there is any threat. YOu might as well tell us not to go to sleep tonight because Freddie Kruger might get us. We did not create ourselves. Who here would make such a ridiculous claim? He created us....we need to accept this fact first. No we don't need to accept that fact. For a start it's not a fact, it's a presumption on your part, a claim you have no evidence to back up. And even if there was a God who created us, there's no evidence to support it's your God. None of us picked to be here. He picked us. Then he picked us all to be ex-Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Donna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Donna, I have read the Bible. And I dont sit and dwell on what God did that I dont understand. You are right, I do fear Him. Im not going to question WHY He did things. It does not even bother me what He did. Hes God. Im not sure why you guys are letting these things keep you from Him? In the OT the people had rules and regulations to follow...and they had to follow it strickly to the "T." When Jesus came, you are right that He did not come to take away the laws...but now we can keep His ways and live by His grace. If we mess up, we have His grace that covers us. And you guys say He is unloving and cruel. Hes not. Hes very loving. But you guys have this hatred toward Him. Which I get it, you have been hurt, disappointed, and felt abandoned. Your god can't be loving and kind if he creates a hell for all his reject children. Key word is fear. The only reason you won't go down the intellectual path and try to understand what I'm saying is because you are afraid of hell. If you'd deconverted, you would have realised that hell is just as imaginary as your god. But you didn't, so you still cling to god, (because you want to imagine someone is looking out for you) and because you want that, you also have to believe that there is a big scary hell to be scared of. I do not fear hell, because I don't believe that hell exists. Your god is too contradictory and inconsistent to be a real being. The relationship you think you are having with him is the same as the relationship I thought I was having with him. Turns out I was the only one there, and god was just a figment of my imagination. Sure, it feels very real, but it isn't real. It's a mental short circuit. There is no god and no hell. I can't feel hurt, disappointed, and abandoned by god. I can feel angry that I was deluded enough to believe that that god existed long enough to have serious repercussions on my quality of life. How can your god be 'very loving' and yet think that killing his creation (including little children and babies) is 'tough love'. That defies belief, and it's sick that you rationalise it like that. That is horrible. Either he's very loving, or he's a malevolent monster. He can't be both. It's like water. EIther it's clean water, or it's dirty water. A little bit of dirt makes it dirty water. A little bit of malevolence and contempt for humanity makes him an evil being. I don't think you can be a moral person and not be horribly, horribly upset by the awful acts ascribed to your god in the bible. Forget the OT. What about the horror he apparently intends to mete out to humanity in the End Times? You're totally okay with that, aren't you? Just as long as it's not you that has to suffer. How can you be a moral person and worship a god who performs such obvious evil? The fruit of your god is horror and violence, not love. It's disgusting. Don't come here and say that that kind of awful genocide doesn't bother you. How can you NOT be bothered and not want to kill yourself? Seriously? Pol Pot had more compassion for humanity than you do, I swear. What kind of person would I be if I wasn't bothered by the suffering of humanity? Not a very nice one. In fact, I'd be a christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Why cant you just wake up and see that we are only here for just a moment? A second, then we are gone. Whats a hundred years? I remember being 18, now I am 28. Ten years fleeeeeeeeeeew by soooooooooo fast. This is life, it is so fragile. A flash of lightning A wave on the ocean A blink of an eye Gone Why waste it as a hungry ghost? Craving reward- When you already have a limitless fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justyna Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 OnceConvinced, I find you to be the most open one here on the forum. I feel like if anyone is coming back to Him, it is you (I know you dont really want to hear that...lol). You are right this is hard because most here dont believe in Him anymore. Some dont believe in a God at all and that makes it hard to breakthrough, not impossible but difficult nevertheless. Theres always tomorrow to chip away at that unbelief and doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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