Former Christian Friend Became An Atheist/satanist

[Guest Justyna]

I just want to clarify something. Ive noticed that some here have called me a Fundamentalist. I do understand what that means, but when I think of that term, seriously I think of Baptists and I am NOT a Baptist by any means. When I think of people who are Baptist, I think long skirts down to the knee and things like that....now I know this is not always the case, but that is the image I get in my mind. Im DEFINITELY NOT wearing long skirts to my knees....more like skinny jeans and a pair of heels .

 

If I HAD to classify myself I would call myself a Christian Mystic....or something along those lines. I really dont like labels per se, but if I must categorize myself, I would go with that term. I do like to know God, and experience Him and go to "that place" with Him and into the Holy of Holies, and into His Throne Room. Stuff like that interests me more than making sure my "theology" is correct. I dont spend much time trying to prove God exists becasue what is the point? You can prove God exists, but that does not mean you will KNOW HIM, and it does not mean you will be any closer to Him. Its about experiencing Him and His Holy Spirit. That is why I could never be a Muslim. You cannot know Allah..the way you can know Jesus. At least that is what I was told.

 

Christian mysticism is sort of like Kabbalah in Judaism in that it goes into the mystical side of things etc. Thats kind of what I like, and what I go for. Sometimes I have a hard time fitting into the Christian Community, as I am a little more to the left than most. That is why its weird to be called a "Fundie" LOL.

 

Realist,

 

Im not vain..so that is why I dont ask God to help me with this. Everything I am proud about is because of God and I give God credit..thats not vanity. Vanity is living your life without God. Its all vain without God.

 

Ouroboros,

 

No I never asked God why innocent children suffer...and so I never got an answer.

[Realist]

 

Ouroboros,

 

No I never asked God why innocent children suffer...and so I never got an answer.

 

 

.... once again .... too tough a question heh? Or might you not like god's answer? I forgot .... he may not answer!

[Guest Justyna]

 

Ouroboros,

 

No I never asked God why innocent children suffer...and so I never got an answer.

 

 

.... once again .... too tough a question heh? Or might you not like god's answer? I forgot .... he may not answer!

 

 

Or maybe because unlike so many here, I just dont need to know. I am fine with not knowing everything. My faith is not going to be shaken just because I dont understand something about God. I could careless.

[Realist]

 

Ouroboros,

 

No I never asked God why innocent children suffer...and so I never got an answer.

 

 

.... once again .... too tough a question heh? Or might you not like god's answer? I forgot .... he may not answer!

 

 

Or maybe because unlike so many here, I just dont need to know. I am fine with not knowing everything. My faith is not going to be shaken just because I dont understand something about God. I could careless.

 

 

... yes, I TOTALLY understand! Who gives a shit about innocent children!

[Guest Justyna]

 

Ouroboros,

 

No I never asked God why innocent children suffer...and so I never got an answer.

 

 

.... once again .... too tough a question heh? Or might you not like god's answer? I forgot .... he may not answer!

 

 

Or maybe because unlike so many here, I just dont need to know. I am fine with not knowing everything. My faith is not going to be shaken just because I dont understand something about God. I could careless.

 

 

... yes, I TOTALLY understand! Who gives a shit about innocent children!

 

 

Its not that I dont care about suffering children Realist...its because I dont think that even if I understood WHY God allows them to suffer..that it would even matter. What difference would it make if I knew the answer? Would me knowing the answer somehow change their suffering? No it would not. That is why I dont care to know the answer. I care about the children though....I used to work at an orpahange and such. You have a very very difficult personality Realist. Very difficult. I clash more with you, then anyone else on this board. Luna too, but he/she is on ignore.

[Guest Justyna]

Knowing that God exists because someone was able to provide you with proof that He exists, does not mean you KNOW GOD. It does not mean you have a relationship with Him, and it does not mean you are saved. Proving God is pointless...I waste virtually no time on it. I say try to experience God for yourself, try to know Him intimately for yourself (even if it is in a way that is different than the way I know Him). That is fine, but the key is to do that, not try to prove He exists. I know for many here, the biggest hurddle is the belief He actually exists. How can you draw near to Him and call His name if He does not exist to you? I get that much. But how can you KNOW HIM..if all you ever do is try to prove He exists? You wont know Him in this way..you wont. You will only get to know Him if you "go there" and explore and experience Him for real. Take a leap of faith basically.

 

Thats where everyone is stuck on this board. They want proof that He exists. For what? Will that save you? No. We are not saved because we can prove He exists. We are saved because we have a relationship with Him and we experience Him and we know Him. So if you can get passed the "lets prove He exists" and then go straight pass to trying to "experience God" then that will be better I think. I know you really cant try to experience something that you dont believe exists.....but you get what I am trying to say in all this right?

 

You will have proof that He exists once you experience Him. Try it the other way around for once....instead of proving His existence first, and then decididng to believe in Him. How about you experience Him, that will be plenty of proof..trust me. Experience His love, His joy, His compassion, forigiveness, and His Holy Spirit. That will be plenty of proof for you. It will. You wont even need any other proof, because you will know without a shadow of a doub that He is real

[Guest Valk0010]

Knowing that God exists because someone was able to provide you with proof that He exists, does not mean you KNOW GOD. It does not mean you have a relationship with Him, and it does not mean you are saved. Proving God is pointless...I waste virtually no time on it. I say try to experience God for yourself, try to know Him intimately for yourself (even if it is in a way that is different than the way I know Him). That is fine, but the key is to do that, not try to prove He exists. I know for many here, the biggest hurddle is the believe He actually exists. How can you draw near to Him and call His name if He does not exist to you? I get that much. But how can you KNOW HIM..if all you ever do is try to prove He exists? You wont know Him in this way..you wont. You will only get to know Him if you go there and explore and experience Him for real.

 

Thats where everyone is stuck on this board. They want proof that He exists. For what? Will that save you? No. We are not saved because we can prove He exists. We are saved because we have a relationship with Him and we experience Him and we know Him. So if you can get passed the "lets prove He exists" and then go straight pass to trying to "experience God" then that will be better I think. I know you really cant try to experience something that you dont believe exists.....but you get what I am trying to say in all this right?

I will start believing once I have prove, if somehow christianity was proven to me to be true, then I would become a christian, and therefor be saved.

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

double post

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

Knowing that God exists because someone was able to provide you with proof that He exists, does not mean you KNOW GOD. It does not mean you have a relationship with Him, and it does not mean you are saved. Proving God is pointless...I waste virtually no time on it. I say try to experience God for yourself, try to know Him intimately for yourself (even if it is in a way that is different than the way I know Him). That is fine, but the key is to do that, not try to prove He exists. I know for many here, the biggest hurddle is the believe He actually exists. How can you draw near to Him and call His name if He does not exist to you? I get that much. But how can you KNOW HIM..if all you ever do is try to prove He exists? You wont know Him in this way..you wont. You will only get to know Him if you go there and explore and experience Him for real.

 

Thats where everyone is stuck on this board. They want proof that He exists. For what? Will that save you? No. We are not saved because we can prove He exists. We are saved because we have a relationship with Him and we experience Him and we know Him. So if you can get passed the "lets prove He exists" and then go straight pass to trying to "experience God" then that will be better I think. I know you really cant try to experience something that you dont believe exists.....but you get what I am trying to say in all this right?

 

How does one draw near to God or know him? How do you explore and experience him? I am genuinely curious. I don't really know what you are trying to say.

[Vigile]

Super,

 

LOL...yes He does. Dont hate, dont hate

 

Lets be nice and civil, Ouroboros said if things get out of hand again here...Im a goner. Im on thin ice here. And I know you guys would miss me if I was not here anymore...just admit it! *grin*

 

Super makes a valid point. God is giving you good parking spaces and As when he is failing miserably with starving kids in Africa and children of crack moms in inner cities.

 

Can't you see how shallow it makes you sound to brag on god for giving you a bump up on your test scores?

[Realist]

 

 

Its not that I dont care about suffering children Realist...its because I dont think that even if I understood WHY God allows them to suffer..that it would even matter. What difference would it make if I knew the answer? Would me knowing the answer somehow change their suffering? No it would not. That is why I dont care to know the answer. I care about the children though....I used to work at an orpahange and such. You have a very very difficult personality Realist. Very difficult. I clash more with you, then anyone else on this board. Luna too, but he/she is on ignore.

 

 

... no the real answer is (and you know this too!) .. is that it is one thing that your religion CANNOT answer and it is a very VITAL question! So you hedge on it!!

 

It is one IMPORTANT thing that helps proves the non-existence of your god!

[Realist]

You have a very very difficult personality Realist. Very difficult. I clash more with you, then anyone else on this board. Luna too, but he/she is on ignore.

 

... so you might as well put me on ignore because I aint going nowhere!

[Guest Justyna]

Realist,

 

I KNOW God is real and I experience Him each day even if I dont have all the answers and even if I dont understand why innocent children suffer. My faith is great, and He is great. I dont need to know that answer to KNOW God is real. I really dont. I see that YOU need to know this answer, but not everyone does. I dont need proof that God exists...you apparently do. I have proof in my own life that God exists. I can look at my life and see traces of God in my life...I see the footprint of Jesus in my life. That is proof for me. I dont need my (or your) questions answered to KNOW that God is real.

[Realist]

Realist,

 

I KNOW God is real and I experience Him each day even if I dont have all the answers and even if I dont understand why innocent children suffer. My faith is great, and He is great. I dont need to know that answer to KNOW God is real. I really dont. I see that YOU need to know this answer, but not everyone does. I dont need proof that God exists...you apparently do. I have proof in my own life that God exists. I can look at my life and see traces of God in my life...I see the footprint of Jesus in my life. That is proof for me. I dont need my (or your) questions answered to KNOW that God is real.

 

 

... so right .. you proved one point .... it works for you ... GREAT ... but I can ASSURE you, it does NOT work for others!

 

Respect that factor, other people's opinions, and get a life!!!!

[Realist]

You have a very very difficult personality Realist. Very difficult. I clash more with you, then anyone else on this board. Luna too, but he/she is on ignore.

 

... and what's more ... I work on the Net! So see, I can be here 24 hours a day if I really want too! And I get paid for it!!!

[Guest Justyna]

Vigile,

 

The answer to your question and apparently Super's question is: RELATIVITY... I might have a nice life, but I am not a millionaire....to a millionaire, I am poor....likewise to people in Africa, I am rich. To the people in Africa, it seems unfair that I have clean water and a bed and healthcare. I understand this. Now to me, it seems unfair that I dont live in a 20 bedroom mansion and drive a Rolls-Royce and eat caviar everyday of my life. I am not complaining about my life, I am just making a point. Do you get it?

[ilovemybrain]

This is the same thing that people of other religions say. They know their religion is true because they experience their god. Most of us here have also "experienced God" until we came to the realization that it is just a subjective human, psychological experience. We have tried. We have "called on the Lord" but we have found that he is a human construct, as is every other god. If it makes you happy you're certainly entitled to your belief. You have to understand we are Ex-Christians. Been there, done that. No matter how many times you may try to tell us otherwise, we know what we've experienced.

[Guest Justyna]

This is the same thing that people of other religions say. They know their religion is true because they experience their god. Most of us here have also "experienced God" until we came to the realization that it is just a subjective human, psychological experience. We have tried. We have "called on the Lord" but we have found that he is a human construct, as is every other god. If it makes you happy you're certainly entitled to your belief. You have to understand we are Ex-Christians. Been there, done that. No matter how many times you may try to tell us otherwise, we know what we've experienced.

 

 

I know..I do get this. I guess I never quit though. Im relentless in many ways. I have a little bit of hope that maybe I can still say something or reveal something that will help someone to see that Jesus is real.

 

I am exchanging e-mails with this one person though still..so thats good. They are asking me questions and stuff. Holllaaaaa! A glimmer of hope. A tiny bit of progress.

[Guest Justyna]

[/b]

 

... and what's more ... I work on the Net! So see, I can be here 24 hours a day if I really want too! And I get paid for it!!!

 

 

Hotdog! Put a rose on your nose

Im not leaving and apparently you are not leaving either, even though you said you would. Whatever floats your boat.

We just have to make sure we respect each other and try to act civil toward each other. Thats it really.

[Crazy Donna]

My dad used to ask me these very same questions as you guys..."Why do the innocent suffer? How can God allow small children to suffer?"

 

I dont think its God....there is an enemy here and he is doing a lot of bad. We live in a fallen world after all. But God IS doing a lot of good. God is saving people all the time and giving them better lives and giving them eternity with Him. Lets not forget this fact.

I used to think about this too. Why did I get good carparks, and children in Rwanda get hacked to death by other children with machetes, instructed by Joseph Koni, a faithful and committed roman catholic christian?

 

I looked at what happened that was 'good', and what happened that was 'bad' in the world, and the only conclusions I could come up with were:

 

(1) god doesn't care about the horrific suffering of those children, because if he did, he would stop it immediately. I know I could not bear to imagine the suffering of even one child this way, let alone hundreds of thousands. If god's love is supposedly infinitely greater than mine, why does he do nothing?

 

(2) god doesn't exist. There is no third, supernatural party. It is just bad people teaching innocent children to do horrific things to other children. There is no extra layer of understanding.

 

Number 2 made a whole lot more sense to me. Because if number 1 is true, what kind of evil, sick god would let that happen? And lets not blame satan for this. These crimes were committed in jesus name, by little children who were told they were getting a ticket to heaven for doing so. If satan was created by god, and god knew ahead of time that this would happen and satan would be causing it, then god is reprehensible for letting such suffering take place.

 

Under Number 2, you don't have to go into some longwinded explanation of how god supposedly loves us, and somehow hacking little children (like your neice) up into tiny pieces while they are still alive is part of his wonderful plan. It's just humans doing bad things to other humans. There is no extra blame to be levelled at the victims for not being the right kind of christians (hence this bad thing happens to them) or not having enough faith (I think a desperate child raised as a christian would have faith in anything they thought might save them). I don't have to fit this horror into the fairytale of a god who loves me and gives me parking spots, but lets little children be hacked to death by other little children, who have been told to do so by a christian in god's name.

 

Justyna, you can have no comprehension of how much comfort it gives me to know (yes, KNOW) that such an evil god does not exist. Knowing that Number 1 is the only explanation that includes god, and realising that god is just an invention of ancient people, and not a real being (hence the inaction) gives me profound comfort. No matter how you paint it, the god demonstrated by this event is not a kind, compassionate being. He is a sick monster who likes to see little children hacked to death by other little children. If you can do the mental gymnastics that allow you to think that dismembered children who are still alive but dying slowly somehow brings glory to god, then I don't want to be a christian. I refuse to worship the monster you worship. The only reason you worship god is because you are afraid of hell. That is all. But when you realise that hell doesn't exist, it is like a massive weight is removed from your shoulders.

 

I am truly upset by the fact that you don't know the peace I feel.

[Guest Justyna]

Knowing that God exists because someone was able to provide you with proof that He exists, does not mean you KNOW GOD. It does not mean you have a relationship with Him, and it does not mean you are saved. Proving God is pointless...I waste virtually no time on it. I say try to experience God for yourself, try to know Him intimately for yourself (even if it is in a way that is different than the way I know Him). That is fine, but the key is to do that, not try to prove He exists. I know for many here, the biggest hurddle is the believe He actually exists. How can you draw near to Him and call His name if He does not exist to you? I get that much. But how can you KNOW HIM..if all you ever do is try to prove He exists? You wont know Him in this way..you wont. You will only get to know Him if you go there and explore and experience Him for real.

 

Thats where everyone is stuck on this board. They want proof that He exists. For what? Will that save you? No. We are not saved because we can prove He exists. We are saved because we have a relationship with Him and we experience Him and we know Him. So if you can get passed the "lets prove He exists" and then go straight pass to trying to "experience God" then that will be better I think. I know you really cant try to experience something that you dont believe exists.....but you get what I am trying to say in all this right?

 

How does one draw near to God or know him? How do you explore and experience him? I am genuinely curious. I don't really know what you are trying to say.

 

 

Well I can just share from my own experience...maybe its different for other people, but this is what worked for me. When I first started experiencing God as a teen, I had a desire to find God. So that desire has to be there, which it sounds like it is there in you. You would not ask if you were not a little bit interested. I remember I wanted to know God the way that other Christians knew Him and I wanted to hear Him the way they heard Him. I basically wanted what they had. I was hungry for it. For me I started a journal that I would write to God. This is not necessary or anything, but it does help sort out your thoughts and helps you to look back on it and see what you wrote and see your thought processes. (I am not saying you have to keep a journal to know God, but it helps). Anyway..I started writing in it, and I would write anything that came to my mind. I would write how I wanted to believe in Him but had doubts, I would write that I wanted to know Him more, I would write the problems I was having in school and how I felt about certain things etc etc etc. I was very very open with God. I prayed for faith. Faith to believe, faith to overcome my doubts and fears. Basically I just started my journey with Him and I became very very dedicated to knowing Him and very dedicated to looking for Him. I would spend time with Him (in the beginning just in silence) and it progressed till it grew. I meditated on His word (day and night like the Bible says). I took the scriptures and applied it to my life. I noticed it said that we can have ANYTHING if we did not doubt. So I was soooooooooooooo freaking determined to hear HIs voice, and I left NO doubt in me that I was going to hear it. I just told myself that I was going to hear Gods voice even if it kills me..no matter what. I was persistent (I am normally like this if you have not noticed..lol). I was determined, and I applied everything I read. If I did not know something, I prayed about it to receive. Thoss were really the foundational years for me as a Christian. It went on from age 12 to about 18 when He called my name at church oneday. I was shocked! It happened. It finally happened...the thing I was seeking and waiting for. Now between 12 and 18 I sensed His Spirit and guidance, but at 18 I came face to face with His voice and Him in a deeper way. It makes sense since I sought Him each day year after year after year. I dont even know where this passion to know Him came from. It just increased. First it started out as a curiously, then it grew to an obsession..and yes I am obsessed with Him (in a good way)...I fully admit it..lol. I heard Gods voice before when I was 3 or 4, but when I heard it at 18 it was different..it was powerful and it changed my life. Mind you I did not have a relationship with Christ from age 4 till age 12. I have to make that clear. Heard His voice and saw His figure at 4ish, but I didnt get saved till age 12.

 

I am rambling..but basically that is what happened to me. I am not saying this is a formula for everyone, thats what I did and it worked. I just sought Him till He showed Himself to me. I was determined to do it no matter how long it would take. I didnt care. Now you can imagine me doing this cause I do have that personality where I will not stop no matter what (I think that is evident here on this board). The years that followd were amazing. I experienced His pressence in a way that was shocking to me. I experienced Him telling me things I never knew before and I experienced Love like I never knew before. I broke through I guess you can say. Something happened and something was never the same again. Its like the heavens opened up for me and I met my Creator. It rained down on me. I seriously fought for that. Its a battle and there are many distractions out there. Many people start off pursuing God, but life gets in the way. The Bible talks about that, how the struggles of life get in the way of us knowing God. I just persisted and went with it all the way full force. I didnt take no for an answer. I gave up a lot though, but I got what I wanted in the end. It was worth it and I would do it all again anytime.

[Realist]

 

Im not leaving and apparently you are not leaving either, even though you said you would.

 

... see there you go again with your misinformation! The statement was "I am out of here for a while." (Which is EXACTLY what I did!)I had to go out for a couple of hours for charity work if I must report to you first!

[Galien]

hun hate to tell you this but you are having a "relationship" with a construct in your brain. that place you go with god is all in your head. been there and can even draw you a picture.

 

so often you say "what i was told" when people ask you questions. you LEARNED who god was by listening, reading and watching other people. you have no direct experience of god that cannot be attributed to your mental construct of god and jesus and you cannot prove the existence of god, and neither can i.

 

 

[lunaticheathen]

Bye Realist, bye RecoveringFromChristianity, bye Ancey....Im sure you will be back eventually and if I am not banned, I will probably still be here

 

Justyna - the Don Quixote of Christianity in a non-believing land.

 

I love you for this.

[lunaticheathen]

If I HAD to classify myself I would call myself a Christian Mystic....or something along those lines.

 

This bitch wouldn't know a mystical experience if it crawled up her ass and laid eggs.

 

No I never asked God why innocent children suffer...and so I never got an answer.

 

Don't think too hard!

 

This is why it's not a mystic. Afraid of the hard questions. Just wants fuzzies. No spiritual maturity AT ALL.