Challenge for atheists - preach the word!

[daniel_1012]

Guest-tiger,

 

You're right there.  I shouldn't waste my time doing that sort of thing... it is fruitless, and I'm wrong for doing it.

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Doing what sort of thing?

 

Though I'm impressed that you managed to admit to doing something wrong... (believe it or not, that just gained a measure of respect)

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Needless belittlement... my enticing your to wrath was pointless. The wrath of man does not bring about the wrath of God. There is a line I walk sometimes and I crossed it.

[Cerise]

Needless belittlement... my enticing your to wrath was pointless.  The wrath of man does not bring about the wrath of God.  There is a line I walk sometimes and I crossed it.

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And why did you cross it? Even though you say you are following and listening to Christ, you still find yourself deliberately crossing lines here...this doesn't reassure me that you are indeed a follower of christ.

[crazy-tiger]

Pardon the mass quoting, but it's needed in this case...

Guest-tiger,

 

You're right there.  I shouldn't waste my time doing that sort of thing... it is fruitless, and I'm wrong for doing it.

101913[/snapback]

Doing what sort of thing?

 

Though I'm impressed that you managed to admit to doing something wrong... (believe it or not, that just gained a measure of respect)

101920[/snapback]

 

Needless belittlement... my enticing your to wrath was pointless. The wrath of man does not bring about the wrath of God. There is a line I walk sometimes and I crossed it.

101923[/snapback]

I am impressed... (again)

 

Yes, enticing me to wrath is indeed pointless... Not just because of what you just said, but because it serves no purpose whatsoever.

I may post in a fashion that indicates that I am well and truely pissed off, but that is usually to let people know they are crossing a line that should not be crossed.

 

 

One thing that would help you at this point, that usually helps everyone at some point or another, is to let go of the preconceptions about certain things and learn about them instead.

It's hard to accept that what we think we know is wrong, but a wise man will always be wondering if they are indeed right.

 

You have here an opportunity to find out what Atheists REALLY believe... don't let it pass you by. At the very least, it would help you to understand us better.

[DanInPA]

Once more, Daniel

 

Hey Daniel,

 

Here are Jesus' own words:

 

Mark 16:17-18

17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

 

So until you chug a bottle of Drano™ and live, don't expect me to listen to anything you say.

Dan

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[Mythra]

I don't think Danny has that much faith.

 

Maybe he should just try a tablespoonful of draino first.

[Vixentrox]

I don't think Danny has that much faith. 

 

Maybe he should just try a tablespoonful of draino first.

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That would require a mustard's seed worth of faith I think which he don't have yet.

[daniel_1012]

Once more, Daniel.  Without negative definition this time, what is a spirit?

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What is gravity? Give me a definition of it. Where does it come from, where is it going, and why is it there? We have given a word to something we can't explain. We see things fall, we have an idea of what it's doing... and we call that observation gravity. So what is gravity Neil? Can I touch it, can I feel it? If you can't convince me of it, I don't have to convince you of a Spirit that resides within 'you.'

 

Dictionary.com says:

 

1. The natural force of attraction exerted by a celestial body, such as Earth, upon objects at or near its surface, tending to draw them toward the center of the body.

2. The natural force of attraction between any two massive bodies, which is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

3. Gravitation.

 

So what is this thing, gravity? What made this so, and why does it keep happening over... and over again, night and day... day and night.

 

Why do my atoms pull into one another... how did the stars get in the sky? There are thousands of unanswered quesitons I could present to you, but none of them, not having answers, would negate the natural observation with which we have given word -- such as gravity.

 

I see people die, I see people live... my soul testifies of a God... knowing that God is spirit, I know there is more to this life than what I can merely see or perceive with my eyes. I seek God, and I have found Him. Don't know everything yet, but sure as gravity will pull you to earth, someday God will pull your Spirit to Himself -- on that day, one should hope he is ready.

 

Jesus - The Lord OUR righteousness will make you ready.

[Mr. Neil]

What is gravity?  Give me a definition of it.  Where does it come from, where is it going, and why is it there?  We have given a word to something we can't explain.  We see things fall, we have an idea of what it's doing... and we call that observation gravity.  So what is gravity Neil?  Can I touch it, can I feel it?  If you can't convince me of it, I don't have to convince you of a Spirit that resides within 'you.'

Red herring.

 

Gravity is not a "thing" per say. Gravity a word we use to describe an action, which is the attraction between two objects. A more coherent question would be to ask what causes gravity. As as action, it is observable, and you can feel its affects.

 

Why do my atoms pull into one another... how did the stars get in the sky?  There are thousands of unanswered quesitons I could present to you, but none of them, not having answers, would negate the natural observation with which we have given word -- such as gravity.

This is the fallacy of the argument from ignorance in full force. It is evil numero uno in the apologetic arsenal, and you will be beaten every single time you use it here.

 

The only difference is that we can observe gravity, atoms, stars, moons, diamonds, clovers and... uh... wait, I trailed off for a second there. We observe these things in our daily experience, and while we may not be able to explain them completely, we know that they're real. There's a coherent way to describe the phenomena that we see.

 

However, there is no coherent definition of a spirit. You can try all you want, and clearly you've given it a lot of time and come back empty handed. That's because you're not going to find a way of describing a spirit without appealing to what it's not. It's external, non-corporeal, non-material, and eternal. All of these are negatives, because they're only telling us that spirits aren't of the material world and are not finite. They're meaningless.

 

Last time I checked, gravity isn't defined by "it's not". Remember, my point was about the meaninglessness of negative definitions.

 

I see people die, I see people live... my soul testifies of a God... knowing that God is spirit, I know there is more to this life than what I can merely see or perceive with my eyes.

Back to the meaningless banter, I see.

 

I seek God, and I have found Him.  Don't know everything yet, but sure as gravity will pull you to earth, someday God will pull your Spirit to Himself -- on that day, one should hope he is ready.

I am also pulling the Earth up toward myself. Or didn't you know that?

 

Jesus - The Lord OUR righteousness will make you ready.

Jesus is not of the house of David.

[Kalidasa]

Preach the word!

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That would make us just as reprehensible as those people who stand out on the footpath, loudhailer in hand, waving their Babble in the air. No thanks - I copped enough hatred in high school for being what I am, I don't need strangers trying to push me into the street into the path of an oncoming bus.

 

By the way, do you realise that some of the most intelligent and influential people in history are or were atheists? There's Richard Dawkins, James D. Watson, Sigmund Freud...are you going to call them idiots?

 

You're an insult to my intelligence, as well as that of everyone here. Now kindly immolate yourself so that we no longer have to read your mindless dribble. If you don't, I'll come over there, flamethrower in hand, and I'll damn well do it myself. Savvy?

[Asuryan]

A lot of the current misconceptions against RPGs come from an old after school special called Mazes and Monsters, or something like that.  Basically, this kid who is already mentally ill is in a LARP and goes even more nuts.  So they blame it on the game, despite the fact that mental illness has nothing to do with that.  It's a chemical imbalance in the brain.  But superstitious fundies will believe anything.

 

Oh, and then there's the whole "Magic is TeH Ev1L!!!!!111!!!!" crap, despite the fact that it's COMPLETELY FICTIONAL.

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Oh well

"Rock and roll makes kids go crazy and kill people!"

"D&D makes kids crazy and kill people!"

"Videogames makes kids crazy and kill people!"

Yawn. It's all so silly. Of course, I know that about mental illnesses (though I wouldn't cure a crazy person with pills and medicines alone, I'll prescribe a double therapy, both with medicines and with a therapist ), but what do fundies know?

 

"We are created by god... our brain is created by god... it is simply not possible that god would've created a defective brain inside our skulls! Because he created us in his image" <--- I say that's precisely the point about kids going crazy and shooting people around, God did it sooo many times

 

So it must be cozier to blame everything on things invented by men, no matter what: rock and roll, roleplaying games, videogames, anime and manga, violent movies... This is what I call utter mental laziness, it's too tiring for them to consider the possibility that these things have little or nothing to do with going around and shooting people.

[Asuryan]

God: Well...I know...um...but your just such a jerk, I mean what would people think.

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God could always create a small heaven, just for him and him alone. And maybe goldstein too. And the tv preachers. And...okay, okay, let's just say that god creates a not so small heaven...

Oh, sorry. Biblegod doesn't exist. So...

 

"But I believe in god! You have to let me inside heaven!"

"...um... hello?"

"God?"

"Jesus?"

"Anybody here? "

"I'm all alone? But... I'm dead... where am I? Is this hell?"

"It is so dark... and cramped... and..."

"Crap! I've been buried alive! Helllllp!"

[Asuryan]

Yeah, lay off us gamer geeks! We have lives! Really!

 

(Anybody want to check out my hand-crocheted dice bag? It's so cool!)

 

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(brings her sparkling golden and silver shiney dices to Beccas)

 

Look at them! Aren't they cute? They seem a bunch of candies shaped like dices

We gamer geeks should try and figure out Daniel's D&D statistics. Rolled with the 3d6 system... he's not worthy of the 4d6 - drop the lowest - system.

[Asuryan]

Actually, it was some of my friends... i was there. But it was never really reported.

but hey mine might be the only case.

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Eep

I find that a bit hard to believe... I mean, you were there and saw one of your friends actually hacking away the arms of another of your friends with a real sword?

I don't mean that I don't believe what you say, it's just that I don't believe that D&D was the reason of this arm-cutting raptus. Give a sword to someone that has already some mental illness cooking, hidden, inside his or her mind... then it's not the sword's fault if the guy or girl starts cutting arms away, right?

And no newspaper made a scoop on this? They are usually attracted by this kind of happenings like flies over honey... And this time no one talked about it? Why?

[Asuryan]

Are you telling me that upsetting people has made me unChristlike?  I have simply made a post revealing the foolery of atheism... surely that will upset the atheistic mind, but Christ did no less. 

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I won't ask you to act more like pug or amanda or iprayican.

I ask you, though, to answer my question.

You already decided that, no matter what we say, and no matter how we say it, we are wrong, because the bible tells you so. Right?

If it is so, why did you open this whole thread, if you didn't even wish to listen to our replies or at least consider them worthwile?

[Asuryan]

2) Jesus is the roll model

 

Yes he is.

[♦ nivek ♦]

2) Jesus is the roll model

 

Yes he is.

102053[/snapback]

 

Roll model?

 

How does one make a scale model of a roll? Or is it like a minature jelly donut spun on its edge?

 

The implications are staggering!

 

kevinL

[Mythra]

I don't mean that I don't believe what you say, it's just that I don't believe that D&D was the reason of this arm-cutting raptus. Give a sword to someone that has already some mental illness cooking, hidden, inside his or her mind... then it's not the sword's fault if the guy or girl starts cutting arms away, right? 

And no newspaper made a scoop on this? They are usually attracted by this kind of happenings like flies over honey... And this time no one talked about it? Why? 

102051[/snapback]

 

I really like buddha man. He's okay in my book. I mean, I really do like the guy. But perhaps he had a little too much chemical modification to his brain when he was younger. He relates a few unique experiences to us.

 

Whatever you do, don't ask him if he's ever seen anyone walk on water.

[willybilly30]

the wrath of man does not bring about the wrath of god?

tell me that is not a bible verse cause if it is then gods lieing

look at the old testement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Needless belittlement... my enticing your to wrath was pointless. The wrath of man does not bring about the wrath of God. There is a line I walk sometimes and I crossed it.

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[fallenleaf]

0 times infinity, is still zero.

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Sorry..... I must do this.

 

 

MULTIPLICATION ONLY APPLIES TO REAL NUMBERS. Or matrices and vectors, in a different sense... Heck, even complex numbers too...

 

Infinity is NOT a real number

 

Ahem.... Now that I got that out of the way.....Let's play a little bit of Calculus.

 

Let's look at X^2. Clearly, as X approaches infinity, X^2 approaches infinity.

 

Now look at 1/X. It approaches 0 as X approaches infinity.

 

Now look at the product, (X^2)*(1/X), which can be simplified to just X. Does it approach 0 as X approaches infinity?

101615[/snapback]

 

Now Khan, I hope you don't mind if I add on to this with a proof I happen to like even more (as you end up with a real number).

 

Infinity times zero is an indeterminate form. It is meaningless without a proper equation. Note... Khan gave one and already said this. And, it should be noted that anything/0 = infinity (this is actually why dividing by zero is forbidden... the answer is indeterminate because it is infinity). So this simplifies to a 0/0 problem. I know it seems a pain to express it that way and like I am trying to avoid the problem at hand... so I will express it as (numerator) * (1/denominator)... the split form.

 

Take for example ((3x^2 + 2x - 1) * 1/(x^2 + x)) where x = -1. This is (zero * (1/zero) [infinity]).

 

The answer, when actually solved (using L'hopital's rule for all you math geeks) is 4.

 

So clearly, by multiplying our zero by infinity we are at least four TIMES better off than you are.

 

 

** I am not making this up or bullshitting here. That equation does have a numerical solution as x approaches -1 of 4. It is neither zero nor infinity.

[Purple]

Dear Daniel,

 

noidea_.bmp

[Purple]

Hey Daniel, "When the jazz man's testifyin' even faithless men believe." So what's so uncompelling about you?

[DanInPA]

Third time, dude

 

Hey Daniel,

 

Here are Jesus' own words:

 

Mark 16:17-18

17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

 

So until you chug a bottle of Drano™ and live, don't expect me to listen to anything you say.

Dan

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[SkepticOfBible]

It seems to me that you are condradicting yourself

 

 

but no denominational title by default, makes you a Christian -- it is Christ that does this.

 

against

 

would definitely say Universalists are not Christians.

 

Universalist say the same thing as you. "We want to follow christ"

 

They may not agree with your interpretation, but they certainly believe in the essential doctrine as stated by the CARM website

 

It is quite evident. Not only do you possess "holier than thou" attitude towards atheist, agnostic etc but also towards other christians.

 

What I can observed from testimonies, this "holier than thou" attitude is perhaps the no 1 reason for people to leave christianity?

 

 

There is one things that makes a man Christian... that is Christ.  Go to Him, and you will be one.  Go to an idol, and you will not be a Christian.

 

All these people I quoted all follow christ and have him as a role model. Maybe I should have said

 

"Perhaps you should learn from such people as how to become christ-like?"

[Amethyst]

I don't mean that I don't believe what you say, it's just that I don't believe that D&D was the reason of this arm-cutting raptus. Give a sword to someone that has already some mental illness cooking, hidden, inside his or her mind... then it's not the sword's fault if the guy or girl starts cutting arms away, right?

 

Right. That was my point about the after school special as well. If someone is already mentally ill, giving them the means to delude themselves further doesn't help. Religion proves that also.

 

And no newspaper made a scoop on this? They are usually attracted by this kind of happenings like flies over honey... And this time no one talked about it? Why

 

I would like to know as well. The news media likes to demonize those who are even remotely different (in this case, people who like RPGs) as much as any Christian.

[Amethyst]

So it must be cozier to blame everything on things invented by men, no matter what: rock and roll, roleplaying games, videogames, anime and manga, violent movies... This is what I call utter mental laziness, it's too tiring for them to consider the possibility that these things have little or nothing to do with going around and shooting people.

 

Excellent point.