The Cross And The Resurrection

[oddbird1963]

Son, all I can do is to explain what the Bible teaches. I know you may have difficult time seeing its relevance to your real life. But my hope is that you keep searching. Isn't that why you want to have a conversation with a Christian? Otherwise why waste time here??

 

I've been looking and looking for evidence that you have a grasp on what the Bible teaches. But so far, all I have found is a heterodox, undeveloped set of bare assertions that could have just as easily been made up in a THC inspired stream of consciousness marathon of "deep thoughts, dude."

And you are the Mr. Theologian? So tell me what you know about the Bible. I am always interested in discussing the Bible.

 

What does me being "Mr. theologian" have to do with anything.? This is another red herring. You make loads of assertions, declaring that most Christian teachings are wrong and your understanding is right, yet you offer little in the way of support. I can make up excuses and doctrines at random 24/7 and eventually one or two of them will sound reasonable. If you're so right and the main stream of christian theology is wrong, then what makes you so right?

 

As far as I have seen so far, you are just 1) making things up as you go or 2) parroting the uncritical statements of others. I may find more in the way of supporting statements that you make among the posts on this forum that I have not yet read, but so far you have really fallen short in the way of demonstrating that what you say you believe is actually true.

[JayL]

Since you have a masters (or was it PhD) in physics (did I understand that correct?), how do you explain...

I just have a master's degree in physics.

Are you a bible literalist? If so, and if you have a degree in physics, I would be interested in hearing your explanations of how:

 

1) The world was created only 6000 years ago, yet we can see more than 13 billion years into the past.

 

2) How the first rainbow was little more than 4000 years ago, and why they did not exist before that.

 

I am not a physicist, but I didn't think I needed to be in order to struggle with these questions, that is, until I realized they were folk stories based on a bronze age understanding of the universe.

Since you have a masters (or was it PhD) in physics (did I understand that correct?), how do you explain...

I just have a master's degree in physics.

Are you a bible literalist? If so, and if you have a degree in physics, I would be interested in hearing your explanations of how:

 

1) The world was created only 6000 years ago, yet we can see more than 13 billion years into the past.

 

2) How the first rainbow was little more than 4000 years ago, and why they did not exist before that.

 

I am not a physicist, but I didn't think I needed to be in order to struggle with these questions, that is, until I realized they were folk stories based on a bronze age understanding of the universe.

 

 

Thank you for asking these interesting questions.

 

1) I actually believe the universe is created 13 billion years ago. I am all for current theory of 'Big Bang origin' ( really a terrible name BTW. It should be called 'Big Creation'. ) and cosmic background radiation etc. A freind of mine used to be really big in cosmic background radiation research. I dare not say he is all wrong! LOL

 

2) Being a person who slogged thru Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics ( ok, 30 years ago. But there is no change in CE! lol ) I know why rainbow happens - Raleigh scattering. But to me, it is still weird. But then I think aurora borealis is weird too. Had I studied evolutionary biology, I would think flowers are weird! So it could be just me. BUT to me, rainbow phenomenon is still wonderous. Actually I am in awe whenever I see one. Because I am a believer in God, I tend to attribute rainbow phenomenon to God. Yeah, sue me if you want. But this is the way I think.

[JayL]

<< The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice >>

 

 

I am not sure what you mean here. God did create a world with no death, no disease, and no injustice. According to the Genesis account, all was good.

 

The point you may be missing is that this world He created also had freedom built into it. Death, disease, and injustice all came afterwards.

 

That's just a cheap dodge. A non sequitur. The Bible teaches an all-powerful god. The world is full of death, disease and injustice. If this all powerful god is good, he could end the death, disease, suffering and injustice without compromising free will. This is not the same thing as asking "can god create a rock so big he cannot lift it?" It's saying that an all powerful god would be able to do more than lurk in the shadows , visible only in the culturally conditioned imaginations of the religious.

 

the excuse that christians make about god's love of human free will is just an empty excuse. There's little support for that view in the Bible. There is even less support for the existence of a god in reality.

 

 

 

 

You think you know Bible. But you really don't. In this, you are like most people. They think they know at least something about the Bible But if I corner them, they simply draw blank. And then they say some crap like ' God can do anything!' LOL

[LivingLife]

That's two insults in a row to someone that has tried to engage this wanker in a discussion. Please mods send this fucker packing.

[oddbird1963]

<< The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice >>

 

I am not sure what you mean here. God did create a world with no death, no disease, and no injustice. According to the Genesis account, all was good.

 

The point you may be missing is that this world He created also had freedom built into it. Death, disease, and injustice all came afterwards.

 

That's just a cheap dodge. A non sequitur. The Bible teaches an all-powerful god. The world is full of death, disease and injustice. If this all powerful god is good, he could end the death, disease, suffering and injustice without compromising free will. This is not the same thing as asking "can god create a rock so big he cannot lift it?" It's saying that an all powerful god would be able to do more than lurk in the shadows , visible only in the culturally conditioned imaginations of the religious.

 

the excuse that christians make about god's love of human free will is just an empty excuse. There's little support for that view in the Bible. There is even less support for the existence of a god in reality.

 

You think you know Bible. But you really don't. In this, you are like most people. They think they know at least something about the Bible But if I corner them, they simply draw blank. And then they say some crap like ' God can do anything!' LOL

 

You don't know what I think I know about the Bible. But you did blow off everything I said. You still offer no support for your beliefs - just like most Christians.

[stryper]

That's two insults in a row to someone that has tried to engage this wanker in a discussion. Please mods send this fucker packing.

 

Insulting as it maybe...JayL has actually been one of the better behaved believers on this site. Not quite as good as end3 and less informative then Thumbilina....but still reasonably well behaved.

[Vigile]

Not quite as good as end3

 

End can have his good moments, but he's also been one of the honriest xians this site has ever seen. I've even seen him make fun of members that have physical handicaps and make outrageously racist statements about Hispanics. J, while frustratingly slippery and sarcastic (the later I kind of like in him) has thus far not offended the way I've seen End do.

[mymistake]

Insulting as it maybe...JayL has actually been one of the better behaved believers on this site. Not quite as good as end3 and less informative then Thumbilina....but still reasonably well behaved.

 

 

I strongly disagree. Catholikitty is an example of a well behaved Christian. This jayL has behaved in a rather typical manner. However jayL has not yet behaved as badly as Thumb and end3. So far jayL has just been dishonest and rude.

[Thackerie]

Not quite as good as end3

 

End can have his good moments, but he's also been one of the honriest xians this site has ever seen. I've even seen him make fun of members that have physical handicaps and make outrageously racist statements about Hispanics. J, while frustratingly slippery and sarcastic (the later I kind of like in him) has thus far not offended the way I've seen End do.

 

I'm one of those handicapped people (rear)End made fun of ... over a year ago. He still owes me an apology but I won't hold my breath waiting to get one from someone so rude, insensitive and nasty. I find that person totally offensive and will never, ever again try communicating with him it.

[stryper]

ahh the joys of the internet.

 

:gets bowie knife to cut shoe leather:

 

 

EDIT: of course here when you say something stupid it get kept for all time.

 

Apologies, Thackerie for endorsement and poor judgement on my part.

[Guest end3]

Not quite as good as end3

 

End can have his good moments, but he's also been one of the honriest xians this site has ever seen. I've even seen him make fun of members that have physical handicaps and make outrageously racist statements about Hispanics. J, while frustratingly slippery and sarcastic (the later I kind of like in him) has thus far not offended the way I've seen End do.

 

 

I still contend my statements are not racist as much as they are cultural. And, with cultural, there is certainly genetic. So, science will prove me right some day. Lazy is genetic is my theory....expecially in Hispanics....bwahahahah.

[Guest end3]

Not quite as good as end3

 

End can have his good moments, but he's also been one of the honriest xians this site has ever seen. I've even seen him make fun of members that have physical handicaps and make outrageously racist statements about Hispanics. J, while frustratingly slippery and sarcastic (the later I kind of like in him) has thus far not offended the way I've seen End do.

 

I'm one of those handicapped people (rear)End made fun of ... over a year ago. He still owes me an apology but I won't hold my breath waiting to get one from someone so rude, insensitive and nasty. I find that person totally offensive and will never, ever again try communicating with him it.

 

I sincerely apologize. I was using your ailment as an example within an argument......could your ailment effect your judgement, if I am remembering correctly. I sincerely apologize. I am not that big an ass in real life, although I do have my moments that I struggle. I would let you punch me in the stomach if we were on the playground.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Thank you for asking these interesting questions.

 

1) I actually believe the universe is created 13 billion years ago. I am all for current theory of 'Big Bang origin' ( really a terrible name BTW. It should be called 'Big Creation'. ) and cosmic background radiation etc. A freind of mine used to be really big in cosmic background radiation research. I dare not say he is all wrong! LOL

 

2) Being a person who slogged thru Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics ( ok, 30 years ago. But there is no change in CE! lol ) I know why rainbow happens - Raleigh scattering.

 

Our so-called Physicist actually means this...

 

Rayleigh Scattering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering

 

Which explains why the sky is blue... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_William_Strutt,_3rd_Baron_Rayleigh

 

But doesn't explain why a rainbow happens... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow

 

Rainbows are caused by a combination of the refraction, reflection and dispersion of light - NOT by Rayleigh scattering.

 

But to me, it is still weird. But then I think aurora borealis is weird too. Had I studied evolutionary biology, I would think flowers are weird! So it could be just me. BUT to me, rainbow phenomenon is still wonderous. Actually I am in awe whenever I see one. Because I am a believer in God, I tend to attribute rainbow phenomenon to God. Yeah, sue me if you want. But this is the way I think.

 

Proof poz that BDP's instincts were right about this bozo!

 

 

SPOOF, FRAUD & LIAR!!!

 

 

BAA.

[JayL]

 

Thank you for asking these interesting questions.

 

1) I actually believe the universe is created 13 billion years ago. I am all for current theory of 'Big Bang origin' ( really a terrible name BTW. It should be called 'Big Creation'. ) and cosmic background radiation etc. A freind of mine used to be really big in cosmic background radiation research. I dare not say he is all wrong! LOL

 

2) Being a person who slogged thru Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics ( ok, 30 years ago. But there is no change in CE! lol ) I know why rainbow happens - Raleigh scattering.

 

Our so-called Physicist actually means this...

 

Rayleigh Scattering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering

 

Which explains why the sky is blue... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_William_Strutt,_3rd_Baron_Rayleigh

 

But doesn't explain why a rainbow happens... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow

 

Rainbows are caused by a combination of the refraction, reflection and dispersion of light - NOT by Rayleigh scattering.

 

But to me, it is still weird. But then I think aurora borealis is weird too. Had I studied evolutionary biology, I would think flowers are weird! So it could be just me. BUT to me, rainbow phenomenon is still wonderous. Actually I am in awe whenever I see one. Because I am a believer in God, I tend to attribute rainbow phenomenon to God. Yeah, sue me if you want. But this is the way I think.

 

Proof poz that BDP's instincts were right about this bozo!

 

 

SPOOF, FRAUD & LIAR!!!

 

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

Well, I think you got me there. I should have checked Wikepedia for accuracy !! My excuse. It has been 30 years since I studied thru Jackson!!

 

 

I knew the whipper snapper will get me one of these days!

[JayL]

That's two insults in a row to someone that has tried to engage this wanker in a discussion. Please mods send this fucker packing.

 

Insulting as it maybe...JayL has actually been one of the better behaved believers on this site. Not quite as good as end3 and less informative then Thumbilina....but still reasonably well behaved.

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I will try to do even better.

[JayL]

Insulting as it maybe...JayL has actually been one of the better behaved believers on this site. Not quite as good as end3 and less informative then Thumbilina....but still reasonably well behaved.

 

 

I strongly disagree. Catholikitty is an example of a well behaved Christian. This jayL has behaved in a rather typical manner. However jayL has not yet behaved as badly as Thumb and end3. So far jayL has just been dishonest and rude.

 

 

Yep, I am guilty of rudeness and much pride. I gotta repent!!! I also apologize to people here.

[JayL]

 

Thank you for asking these interesting questions.

 

1) I actually believe the universe is created 13 billion years ago. I am all for current theory of 'Big Bang origin' ( really a terrible name BTW. It should be called 'Big Creation'. ) and cosmic background radiation etc. A freind of mine used to be really big in cosmic background radiation research. I dare not say he is all wrong! LOL

 

2) Being a person who slogged thru Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics ( ok, 30 years ago. But there is no change in CE! lol ) I know why rainbow happens - Raleigh scattering.

 

Our so-called Physicist actually means this...

 

Rayleigh Scattering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering

 

Which explains why the sky is blue... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_William_Strutt,_3rd_Baron_Rayleigh

 

But doesn't explain why a rainbow happens... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow

 

Rainbows are caused by a combination of the refraction, reflection and dispersion of light - NOT by Rayleigh scattering.

 

But to me, it is still weird. But then I think aurora borealis is weird too. Had I studied evolutionary biology, I would think flowers are weird! So it could be just me. BUT to me, rainbow phenomenon is still wonderous. Actually I am in awe whenever I see one. Because I am a believer in God, I tend to attribute rainbow phenomenon to God. Yeah, sue me if you want. But this is the way I think.

 

Proof poz that BDP's instincts were right about this bozo!

 

 

SPOOF, FRAUD & LIAR!!!

 

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

Well, I will say this in defense of my lapse science accuracy here. Not only do I find rainbow to be wonderous, I am also a big fan of the blue sky.

[JayL]

<< Look up some videos from Francesca Stavrakopoulou! She has a doctorate in theology and religion from Oxford and she is also pretty.

Maybe it will shed some light on the historicity of the Bible. >>

 

 

Thanks for the intro. I watched some clips from her program on YouTube. But at the end I was disappointed, Yes, she is pretty. But she is a light weight. Just a media star on BBC series mainly because she looks hot.

 

 

She appeared in this recent 4 way debate program on the Bible (* Is the Bible relevant in present day UK?" ) and I must say she was the least relevant contributor among the four! Doubt me? Watch the whole thing.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFpCYvL23YA&feature=related

 

 

I'd rather focus on a guy like Dawkins. ( Author of the best seller, Dawkins Delusion. )

[mymistake]

I'd rather focus on a guy like Dawkins. ( Author of the best seller, Dawkins Delusion. )

 

The first review chosen by Google:

 

http://aloadofbright.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/book-review-the-dawkins-delusion-by-alister-mcgrath/

The Dawkins Delusionis a light-weight collection of recycled apologist fallacies, which fails to even remotely impose on the carefully constructed arguments presented by Dawkins, despite the target he sets at the beginning.

 

But my question is what Bible apologist isn't a light weight? I've seen a lot of anti-atheist propaganda out there. At best the theist can just say they believe despite a lack of evidence. Where's the substance?

[bornnormal]

I have seen it already.

Who was more relevant in that debate?

The bishop guy with his aggressive and crazy bible-talk? Or the Jewish lady who just seemed like a hobby-religious person, who does not even take her religion seriously.

You were watching something else than I did...

[JayL]

I have seen it already.

Who was more relevant in that debate?

The bishop guy with his aggressive and crazy bible-talk? Or the Jewish lady who just seemed like a hobby-religious person, who does not even take her religion seriously.

You were watching something else than I did...

 

 

She did not do too well in that program. I really think she is a light weight.

[bornnormal]

I have seen it already.

Who was more relevant in that debate?

The bishop guy with his aggressive and crazy bible-talk? Or the Jewish lady who just seemed like a hobby-religious person, who does not even take her religion seriously.

You were watching something else than I did...

 

 

She did not do too well in that program. I really think she is a light weight.

She is talking facts. Maybe that is not your thing.

I don't see how you categorizing an oxford bible scholar as lightweight makes the bible true.

[JayL]

I have seen it already.

Who was more relevant in that debate?

The bishop guy with his aggressive and crazy bible-talk? Or the Jewish lady who just seemed like a hobby-religious person, who does not even take her religion seriously.

You were watching something else than I did...

 

 

She did not do too well in that program. I really think she is a light weight.

She is talking facts. Maybe that is not your thing.

I don't see how you categorizing an oxford bible scholar as lightweight makes the bible true.

 

 

 

Well, I will try a few more of her programs. She IS a quite attractive media personality.

[bornagainathiest]

YeahWell, I think you got me there. I should have checked Wikepedia for accuracy !! My excuse. It has been 30 years since I studied thru Jackson!!

 

I knew the whipper snapper will get me one of these days!

 

So you find the Aurora Borealis, "weird", Jay?

 

What about it's antipodal counterpart?

 

BAA.

[JayL]

YeahWell, I think you got me there. I should have checked Wikepedia for accuracy !! My excuse. It has been 30 years since I studied thru Jackson!!

 

I knew the whipper snapper will get me one of these days!

 

So you find the Aurora Borealis, "weird", Jay?

 

What about it's antipodal counterpart?

 

BAA.

 

 

Actually I did not address your original question about the rainbow. Why it did not exist before Noah's Flood. If you are still interested, I will give it a shot.