JayL Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Grandpa Harley? Welcome back, we missed you! See?? You ARE the young guy. I should call you a son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 << I personally used to believe much like you do, yet the questions came and came hard. I reasoned that if god was real and he was good that it would behest me to seek with intellectual honesty. I did and found in the end I could no longer believe. That's my journey in a nutshell. You'll have to make your own choices in this world. Personally, I've always been interested in truth. >> Now, I LIKE that very much. You made my day ! Thanks for replying and continue to do so here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Son, all I can do is to explain what the Bible teaches. That's your problem. You are limiting your intellectual potential to the thinking of a bronze-age mentality. Isn't that why you want to have a conversation with a Christian? Otherwise why waste time here?? Normally I have no desire to debate with an xian. As far as braindead people go, they are right up there with Fox news viewers and neo conservatives. You seem like a nice enough guy, so I thought I'd try and reason with you. I have my suspicions that you have serious questions of your own. I encourage you not to bury them but to explore them. I personally used to believe much like you do, yet the questions came and came hard. I reasoned that if god was real and he was good that it would behest me to seek with intellectual honesty. I did and found in the end I could no longer believe. That's my journey in a nutshell. You'll have to make your own choices in this world. Personally, I've always been interested in truth. I really appreciate the kind sentiment. And I apologize for verbal tit for tat. << I have my suspicions that you have serious questions of your own. I encourage you not to bury them but to explore them. >> Of course I have questions of my own. I am a trained physicist for Pete's sake. ( M.A. Physics 1983 Univ of California) I am postulating that this material universe is not all that there is. And that there is an unseen, larger 'spiritual universe' where God dwells. I am embracing the Biblical cosmology. DO I HAVE QUESTIONS??? You'd better believe it !! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 what is a fact as indicated by you? Jesus as a great and moral man? othervthan the bible and the fabricated portion of Joesephus, where is it that recorded that Jesus is a great and moral man? I find the term 'zombie Jesus' was tad offensive. Obviously there are a lot of angry, bitter people here. But we should all tone down the language. Jesus is the absolute greatest hero to me. But just take a look at from historical perspective., Jesus was a great person! You know what offends me? People coming here, to this website, telling members how they should behave here... On their website. This website is what it is. ,members here been given the right to express what they feel. That's part of the purpose with this websjte. And you come here-high and mighty and full of you arrogant supremacist morality--and tell people how they should act. Nothing angers me more... What did you expect here? What kind of website do you think this is? Sing kumbaya and pray with the Jesus people? Come on. You can't be that naive. Now I'm going to offend you even more. Jesus is a zombie. He rose from the dead, just like zombies does. His disciples are vampires. They drank his blood. Oh, btw, Jesus was a human sacrifice as well, just like the old pagan religions. And the trinity is just another false form of polytheism, and the cross is a idol symbol Christians worship. What else.... hmm... Your religion is full of shit? Will that be offensive enough? I feel that perhaps we all should just start piling up and give you the worst to get you to bend over and take it. This website was here before you registered. It was your choice to register. You conform to the culture to where you go, not the reversed. Paul supposedly taught you become a Jew for a Jew and a Greek for a Greek, but oh no, that's not what you do at all. You tell the Greek to become a JayL, and you tell the Jew to become a JayL, or JayL will start crying... boo hoo. In other words, take it or leave it. Don't tell people what they can't do or not in this place. (Because that's my role.) (Big fucking stupid asshole is trying to be alphadog or something...) --- Get this JayL. We're not going to play your game. We're not going to conform to your needs. You can fulfill your wishes and wants in your bedroom with whatever "girlfriend" you so chooses (including Jesus), but we're not going to serve you hot-pink medium rare files, Bearnaise sauce with fried potato wedges just because you yell you want it. Nor will we brush your tassels and wipe of your coat because you want it clean and pretty. We're not your servants. Understand this, this website allows abusive language in regards to your stupid religion, and if you can't take it... then this is not the place for you. Ignorance is bliss, and some Jesus-people are more"blessed" than others... I just think 'zombie' is a pejorative term..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 what is a fact as indicated by you? Jesus as a great and moral man? othervthan the bible and the fabricated portion of Joesephus, where is it that recorded that Jesus is a great and moral man? I find the term 'zombie Jesus' was tad offensive. Obviously there are a lot of angry, bitter people here. But we should all tone down the language. Jesus is the absolute greatest hero to me. But just take a look at from historical perspective., Jesus was a great person! HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE????? which history books state that Jesus is a fact in history? This is a exC site, and YES you will find alot of anger and bitterness for those being enslaved by the bible, mentally tortured by the threat of hell and the non-response from your supposedly omniscience but never present heavenly father. Do i need to say more? There is almost no historian who argues that Jesus was not a real historical figure. Can you think of any?? Look up some videos from Francesca Stavrakopoulou! She has a doctorate in theology and religion from Oxford and she is also pretty. Maybe it will shed some light on the historicity of the Bible. what is a fact as indicated by you? Jesus as a great and moral man? othervthan the bible and the fabricated portion of Joesephus, where is it that recorded that Jesus is a great and moral man? I find the term 'zombie Jesus' was tad offensive. Obviously there are a lot of angry, bitter people here. But we should all tone down the language. Jesus is the absolute greatest hero to me. But just take a look at from historical perspective., Jesus was a great person! HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE????? which history books state that Jesus is a fact in history? This is a exC site, and YES you will find alot of anger and bitterness for those being enslaved by the bible, mentally tortured by the threat of hell and the non-response from your supposedly omniscience but never present heavenly father. Do i need to say more? There is almost no historian who argues that Jesus was not a real historical figure. Can you think of any?? Look up some videos from Francesca Stavrakopoulou! She has a doctorate in theology and religion from Oxford and she is also pretty. Maybe it will shed some light on the historicity of the Bible. Thanks for the info. I am usually curious about alternative views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted December 5, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 5, 2011 what is a fact as indicated by you? Jesus as a great and moral man? othervthan the bible and the fabricated portion of Joesephus, where is it that recorded that Jesus is a great and moral man? I find the term 'zombie Jesus' was tad offensive. Obviously there are a lot of angry, bitter people here. But we should all tone down the language. Jesus is the absolute greatest hero to me. But just take a look at from historical perspective., Jesus was a great person! You know what offends me? People coming here, to this website, telling members how they should behave here... On their website. This website is what it is. ,members here been given the right to express what they feel. That's part of the purpose with this websjte. And you come here-high and mighty and full of you arrogant supremacist morality--and tell people how they should act. Nothing angers me more... What did you expect here? What kind of website do you think this is? Sing kumbaya and pray with the Jesus people? Come on. You can't be that naive. Now I'm going to offend you even more. Jesus is a zombie. He rose from the dead, just like zombies does. His disciples are vampires. They drank his blood. Oh, btw, Jesus was a human sacrifice as well, just like the old pagan religions. And the trinity is just another false form of polytheism, and the cross is a idol symbol Christians worship. What else.... hmm... Your religion is full of shit? Will that be offensive enough? I feel that perhaps we all should just start piling up and give you the worst to get you to bend over and take it. This website was here before you registered. It was your choice to register. You conform to the culture to where you go, not the reversed. Paul supposedly taught you become a Jew for a Jew and a Greek for a Greek, but oh no, that's not what you do at all. You tell the Greek to become a JayL, and you tell the Jew to become a JayL, or JayL will start crying... boo hoo. In other words, take it or leave it. Don't tell people what they can't do or not in this place. (Because that's my role.) (Big fucking stupid asshole is trying to be alphadog or something...) --- Get this JayL. We're not going to play your game. We're not going to conform to your needs. You can fulfill your wishes and wants in your bedroom with whatever "girlfriend" you so chooses (including Jesus), but we're not going to serve you hot-pink medium rare files, Bearnaise sauce with fried potato wedges just because you yell you want it. Nor will we brush your tassels and wipe of your coat because you want it clean and pretty. We're not your servants. Understand this, this website allows abusive language in regards to your stupid religion, and if you can't take it... then this is not the place for you. Ignorance is bliss, and some Jesus-people are more"blessed" than others... JayL..........That's our boss and friend and you better be careful of him!! Ouroboros, thank you......5 stars! ***** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 what is a fact as indicated by you? Jesus as a great and moral man? othervthan the bible and the fabricated portion of Joesephus, where is it that recorded that Jesus is a great and moral man? I find the term 'zombie Jesus' was tad offensive. Obviously there are a lot of angry, bitter people here. But we should all tone down the language. Jesus is the absolute greatest hero to me. But just take a look at from historical perspective., Jesus was a great person! You know what offends me? People coming here, to this website, telling members how they should behave here... On their website. This website is what it is. ,members here been given the right to express what they feel. That's part of the purpose with this websjte. And you come here-high and mighty and full of you arrogant supremacist morality--and tell people how they should act. Nothing angers me more... What did you expect here? What kind of website do you think this is? Sing kumbaya and pray with the Jesus people? Come on. You can't be that naive. Now I'm going to offend you even more. Jesus is a zombie. He rose from the dead, just like zombies does. His disciples are vampires. They drank his blood. Oh, btw, Jesus was a human sacrifice as well, just like the old pagan religions. And the trinity is just another false form of polytheism, and the cross is a idol symbol Christians worship. What else.... hmm... Your religion is full of shit? Will that be offensive enough? I feel that perhaps we all should just start piling up and give you the worst to get you to bend over and take it. This website was here before you registered. It was your choice to register. You conform to the culture to where you go, not the reversed. Paul supposedly taught you become a Jew for a Jew and a Greek for a Greek, but oh no, that's not what you do at all. You tell the Greek to become a JayL, and you tell the Jew to become a JayL, or JayL will start crying... boo hoo. In other words, take it or leave it. Don't tell people what they can't do or not in this place. (Because that's my role.) (Big fucking stupid asshole is trying to be alphadog or something...) --- Get this JayL. We're not going to play your game. We're not going to conform to your needs. You can fulfill your wishes and wants in your bedroom with whatever "girlfriend" you so chooses (including Jesus), but we're not going to serve you hot-pink medium rare files, Bearnaise sauce with fried potato wedges just because you yell you want it. Nor will we brush your tassels and wipe of your coat because you want it clean and pretty. We're not your servants. Understand this, this website allows abusive language in regards to your stupid religion, and if you can't take it... then this is not the place for you. Ignorance is bliss, and some Jesus-people are more"blessed" than others... JayL..........That's our boss and friend and you better be careful of him!! Ouroboros, thank you......5 stars! ***** Ok, I will be more careful. Good advise. I AM thankful I can hang out here and express my opinions - and my convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 WHAT KIND OF FUCKED UP WARPED LOGIC IS THAT? almost no historians? prove a negative? Hey watch your language, man. What the hell!? Damn it man. This is not your fucking website. If you can't take the shit that is said here, then you're free to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I just think 'zombie' is a pejorative term..... And this is not your fucking website. Get in the program or get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ok, I will be more careful. Good advise. I AM thankful I can hang out here and express my opinions - and my convictions. And the point is that other people, besides your ass, can also express THEIR opinions... without your judgmental highway attitude. I tell you again, get with it, or get out. Your choice. Besides, when someone comes back from the dead... that's a zombie, regardless if you're offended by it or not. And only vampires like drinking blood... what does that make the Eucharist? I'm fucking tired of assholes coming here and telling us how we're supposed to be to please them. We're not here to kiss your ass. You're the guest in our house. And if you keep on pissing on Dave's carpet, we'll put you in the doghouse. Understood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Jesus was a great and moral man. Why insult a great person?? Because you had a bad experience with a religion?? Face the facts, man. Outside of cult writings there is very little to base Jesus on. I would also contend that the Biblical Jesus was not such a great and moral man. He was a cult leader that aspired to have all authority and power, and threatened people with "wrath" if they offended him. Simple unbelief is offensive to Jesus, which makes him more of an authoritarian than "moral". Well, I do agree that he sounded authoritarian. But he was not violent nor did he encourage his followers to use violence to advance his cause. To me, that is an important difference - because most authoritarians and revolutionary leaders invariably resort to violence. Jesus certainly did do violence to a fig tree, killing it, and used violence at the Temple when he lost his temper. Jesus will resort to doing great violence. Rev 19:13-15 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. He will also send out his drones to do violence: Matt 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 God is powerful in some ways. But not ALL powerful. For example, God cannot stop you from committing suicide. You have a lot of freedom in dealing with your life. God mostly cannot get in your way. Yeah just like God can't stop starvation. God can't stop natural disasters. God could not explain to us the secrets of medicine so that we could reduce suffering. Aside from the planet itself, everything else good was created through the sweat and technology of humans. I guess God lacked the power to do that too. I would not say God lacked the power. But this is the way God designed it. He created a world where freedom exists and where things can get out of hands. Anyhow this is what the Bible teaches. ( For example, read the story of Noah's Flood, It is very different than the way people think about God. "God is all powerful". "God can do anything" type of crappy, unbiblical ideas that seem to appeal to a lot of religious people.) Hold on there, cowboy. Jesus himself said, "With God all things are possible (Matt. 19:26)" An angel said, "Nothing will be impossible with God. . .(Luke 1:37)" the Bible obviously provides a foundation to construct a belief in omnipotence. You, however, don't really provide much support for your beliefs. You're doing what most Christians do- - - cherry picking according to their preferences. You're wrong about what the bible teaches in this regard and you have done little to provide either a biblical or a rational basis for your doctrine and theology. Given the obvious heterodox nature of your stated beliefs, you really owe it to us to develop what you say you believe with a bit more detail and rigor - being concise at the same time. Frankly, I'm bored by your theological assertions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 God is powerful in some ways. But not ALL powerful. For example, God cannot stop you from committing suicide. You have a lot of freedom in dealing with your life. God mostly cannot get in your way. Yeah just like God can't stop starvation. God can't stop natural disasters. God could not explain to us the secrets of medicine so that we could reduce suffering. Aside from the planet itself, everything else good was created through the sweat and technology of humans. I guess God lacked the power to do that too. I would not say God lacked the power. But this is the way God designed it. He created a world where freedom exists and where things can get out of hands. Anyhow this is what the Bible teaches. ( For example, read the story of Noah's Flood, It is very different than the way people think about God. "God is all powerful". "God can do anything" type of crappy, unbiblical ideas that seem to appeal to a lot of religious people.) Hold on there, cowboy. Jesus himself said, "With God all things are possible (Matt. 19:26)" An angel said, "Nothing will be impossible with God. . .(Luke 1:37)" the Bible obviously provides a foundation to construct a belief in omnipotence. You, however, don't really provide much support for your beliefs. You're doing what most Christians do- - - cherry picking according to their preferences. You're wrong about what the bible teaches in this regard and you have done little to provide either a biblical or a rational basis for your doctrine and theology. Given the obvious heterodox nature of your stated beliefs, you really owe it to us to develop what you say you believe with a bit more detail and rigor - being concise at the same time. Frankly, I'm bored by your theological assertions. It depends on how you interpret those sayings of Jesus. Do they imply 'omnipotence' as people imagine it - i.e. 'God can do anything ??' I do not think so. And most Bible narratives would support my view that God is NOT omnipotent as people like to define it. People subscribe to this kind of unbiblical idea and then go on to ask nonsense questions like, 'Can God create a rock so big he cannot move it?' etc. I mean, how stupid can you get?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Jesus was a great and moral man. Why insult a great person?? Because you had a bad experience with a religion?? Face the facts, man. Outside of cult writings there is very little to base Jesus on. I would also contend that the Biblical Jesus was not such a great and moral man. He was a cult leader that aspired to have all authority and power, and threatened people with "wrath" if they offended him. Simple unbelief is offensive to Jesus, which makes him more of an authoritarian than "moral". Well, I do agree that he sounded authoritarian. But he was not violent nor did he encourage his followers to use violence to advance his cause. To me, that is an important difference - because most authoritarians and revolutionary leaders invariably resort to violence. Jesus certainly did do violence to a fig tree, killing it, and used violence at the Temple when he lost his temper. Jesus will resort to doing great violence. Rev 19:13-15 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. He will also send out his drones to do violence: Matt 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus as the Son of God would judge the world - you and me, brother. But as a man, he was remarkably non-violent - even when his life was threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Son, all I can do is to explain what the Bible teaches. I know you may have difficult time seeing its relevance to your real life. But my hope is that you keep searching. Isn't that why you want to have a conversation with a Christian? Otherwise why waste time here?? I've been looking and looking for evidence that you have a grasp on what the Bible teaches. But so far, all I have found is a heterodox, undeveloped set of bare assertions that could have just as easily been made up in a THC inspired stream of consciousness marathon of "deep thoughts, dude." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 It depends on how you interpret those sayings of Jesus. Do they imply 'omnipotence' as people imagine it - i.e. 'God can do anything ??' I do not think so. And most Bible narratives would support my view that God is NOT omnipotent as people like to define it. People subscribe to this kind of unbiblical idea and then go on to ask nonsense questions like, 'Can God create a rock so big he cannot move it?' etc. I mean, how stupid can you get?? That's not the kind of question that most people ask when they want to know why an "all powerful" god never really seems to come through in the 3-D world of reality. The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice. The point is, there is a solid foundation for a theology that teaches that the Christian god is omnipotent. It calls into question the reliability and authority of scripture when you set these statements in Luke and Matthew alongside statements like Judges 1:18 "Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots." It's not that there is an ameliorating explanation to make this "supernatural book" be seen in it's true light. Most attempts to harmonize the inconsistencies and contradictions are weak at best and ludicrous in many cases. The Bible shows all evidence of having been strewn together by human beings in a haphazard way - reflective of the prominent theologies of the day in which it was written rather than inspired by one true god who is "the same yesterday today and forever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 << The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice >> I am not sure what you mean here. God did create a world with no death, no disease, and no injustice. According to the Genesis account, all was good. The point you may be missing is that this world He created also had freedom built into it. Death, disease, and injustice all came afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 << The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice >> I am not sure what you mean here. God did create a world with no death, no disease, and no injustice. According to the Genesis account, all was good. Since you have a masters (or was it PhD) in physics (did I understand that correct?), how do you explain the change of a perfect universe to our imperfect universe just by two people eating a forbidden fruit? You must have an extreme cognitive dissonance to reject what you know about science when you accept magical stories. The point you may be missing is that this world He created also had freedom built into it. Death, disease, and injustice all came afterwards. How? How did viruses come into existence? Who created them? How did meteors, storms, tsunamis, earthquakes... come into existence? Is disease and death by cancer really a choice under the umbrella of free will? Besides, what is Heaven then? Are there disease there also since it's required for "free will" to exist? Or does this mean that free will disappears in Heaven, just to keep in "clean" and "perfect"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Son, all I can do is to explain what the Bible teaches. I know you may have difficult time seeing its relevance to your real life. But my hope is that you keep searching. Isn't that why you want to have a conversation with a Christian? Otherwise why waste time here?? I've been looking and looking for evidence that you have a grasp on what the Bible teaches. But so far, all I have found is a heterodox, undeveloped set of bare assertions that could have just as easily been made up in a THC inspired stream of consciousness marathon of "deep thoughts, dude." And you are the Mr. Theologian? So tell me what you know about the Bible. I am always interested in discussing the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 << The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice >> I am not sure what you mean here. God did create a world with no death, no disease, and no injustice. According to the Genesis account, all was good. Since you have a masters (or was it PhD) in physics (did I understand that correct?), how do you explain the change of a perfect universe to our imperfect universe just by two people eating a forbidden fruit? You must have an extreme cognitive dissonance to reject what you know about science when you accept magical stories. The point you may be missing is that this world He created also had freedom built into it. Death, disease, and injustice all came afterwards. How? How did viruses come into existence? Who created them? How did meteors, storms, tsunamis, earthquakes... come into existence? Is disease and death by cancer really a choice under the umbrella of free will? Besides, what is Heaven then? Are there disease there also since it's required for "free will" to exist? Or does this mean that free will disappears in Heaven, just to keep in "clean" and "perfect"? I just have a master's degree in physics. On the Garden of Eden narrative, there is more to it than just eating apple. Viruses are really interesting case. The fact that they are not autonomous organisms but just fragments of DNA's really tells me something - that they represent a degradation of the original creation. Of course, you will disagree, but that would be how I would begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I just have a master's degree in physics. It's not so "just". It's an achievement. On the Garden of Eden narrative, there is more to it than just eating apple. Viruses are really interesting case. The fact that they are not autonomous organisms but just fragments of DNA's really tells me something - that they represent a degradation of the original creation. Of course, you will disagree, but that would be how I would begin. Are you reasoning the same way for bacteria, fungus, chemical imbalance, and genetic variance (some genetic diseases are beneficial for survival in some cases)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I just have a master's degree in physics. On the Garden of Eden narrative, there is more to it than just eating apple. Viruses are really interesting case. The fact that they are not autonomous organisms but just fragments of DNA's really tells me something - that they represent a degradation of the original creation. Of course, you will disagree, but that would be how I would begin. How did you manage to get a master's degree yet not learn to avoid using the Non Sequitur fallacy? Fact: Viruses are not autonomous organism but just fragments of DNA Therefore: Democrats are evil! Fact: Viruses are not autonomous organism but just fragments of DNA Therefore: Vanilla is a superior ice cream flavor than chocolate. Fact: Viruses are not autonomous organism but just fragments of DNA Therefore: Viruses represent post modern surrealism clouded in pretentiousness. That a virus is something doesn't mean it represents anything. It certainly doesn't indicate your favorite myth is true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Jesus was a great and moral man. Why insult a great person?? Because you had a bad experience with a religion?? Face the facts, man. Outside of cult writings there is very little to base Jesus on. I would also contend that the Biblical Jesus was not such a great and moral man. He was a cult leader that aspired to have all authority and power, and threatened people with "wrath" if they offended him. Simple unbelief is offensive to Jesus, which makes him more of an authoritarian than "moral". Well, I do agree that he sounded authoritarian. But he was not violent nor did he encourage his followers to use violence to advance his cause. To me, that is an important difference - because most authoritarians and revolutionary leaders invariably resort to violence. Jesus certainly did do violence to a fig tree, killing it, and used violence at the Temple when he lost his temper. Jesus will resort to doing great violence. Rev 19:13-15 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. He will also send out his drones to do violence: Matt 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus as the Son of God would judge the world - you and me, brother. You're creating a double standard. As long as the proper authority does it, resorting to violence, including mass killing, is acceptable moral and nonviolent behavior. But as a man, he was remarkably non-violent - even when his life was threatened. Your original statement was that Jesus was not violent. That's a false claim according to the Bible. Jesus did do violence, and planned to do great violence. He'll also have others commit violence, as Matt 13 clearly shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Since you have a masters (or was it PhD) in physics (did I understand that correct?), how do you explain... I just have a master's degree in physics. Are you a bible literalist? If so, and if you have a degree in physics, I would be interested in hearing your explanations of how: 1) The world was created only 6000 years ago, yet we can see more than 13 billion years into the past. 2) How the first rainbow was little more than 4000 years ago, and why they did not exist before that. I am not a physicist, but I didn't think I needed to be in order to struggle with these questions, that is, until I realized they were folk stories based on a bronze age understanding of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 << The real questions have to do with god's ability to create a world with far less death, disease , suffering and injustice >> I am not sure what you mean here. God did create a world with no death, no disease, and no injustice. According to the Genesis account, all was good. The point you may be missing is that this world He created also had freedom built into it. Death, disease, and injustice all came afterwards. That's just a cheap dodge. A non sequitur. The Bible teaches an all-powerful god. The world is full of death, disease and injustice. If this all powerful god is good, he could end the death, disease, suffering and injustice without compromising free will. This is not the same thing as asking "can god create a rock so big he cannot lift it?" It's saying that an all powerful god would be able to do more than lurk in the shadows , visible only in the culturally conditioned imaginations of the religious. the excuse that christians make about god's love of human free will is just an empty excuse. There's little support for that view in the Bible. There is even less support for the existence of a god in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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